Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bad Chad on October 20, 2017, 05:18:11 PM
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I used to think I knew, now I'm not so sure.
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a new parent company.
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a new parent company.
I agree ..... but I don't know who that would be. Any thoughts?
Bob
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a new parent company.
Well...
I agree ..... but I don't know who that would be. Any thoughts?
Bob
... If we pooled all of our money could come up with a down payment ? We have a couple of very savvy business types here .
Dusty
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No drinking at lunch time...
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No drinking at lunch time...
Chad asked for "realistic" :rolleyes:
Dusty
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I'll get flamed on this response ....... but ....... BMW. They could do their hi tech stuff, and promote Guzzi as the air cooled ride the way we loved it for years. They do know how to market.
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In order:
1. Quality control
2. Product development
3. Marketing
4. Dealer network
Thing is they are FANTASTIC bikes, but they keep getting crippled by STUPID SHIT:
* Bad hydros
* Bad clutches
* Bad upper steering clamps
* Bad fuel lines
* Bad fuel filters
* Bad instrument clusters
* Bad 8v, valve trains
It's not the occasional failure, as much as the pattern ones that go for A LONG time, long after they should have fixed them, that bother me.
But some should NEVER have happened in the first place.
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They need a real sport bike to enhance their image. Some liquid-cooled heads and an additional twenty horsepower on a sexy Latin roadster would make their entire lineup look better...
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A new Le Mans, not just a rebadged smallblock, from the V7 family, but a bigger , hairy chested beast,at least based on the V9, but with some real performance goodies added ,to give it some cojones. A hot cam, high performance throttle bodies, etc. Just imagine what a beautiful motorcycle Guzzi could build ...totally modern, but with mild retro styling cues from all of the old LeMans series bikes!
Rick.
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Building a modern sportbike to compete head on in that market would crush Moto Guzzi .
Dusty
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Realistically, they need to dip even further into their heritage and dredge up more and more retro modern classics, and try to stay ahead of the trend curve, I would like their next bike to be a sexy tracker/street tracker variant of the V7/V9. Maybe name it the V9 TT (Tutto Terreno) to give it enough of a connection to Guzzi's past.
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I am new to the MG lineup. I have had 4 BMW's and 2 Harleys and 1 Victory. My first 2 BMW's were bought used based on the reputation, number 3 was new and 4 was used. The Harleys were new in 92 and 06. I bought the BMW's because of my desire to tour and their reputation (not entirely true) for reliability. The Harleys just because at each time, I wanted them. I had great trips on the BMW's but except for the first which was the iconic R100RS, I don't shed a tear for any of the other 3 or the Victory (25,000 miles in 3 years and perfect mechanically). The Harleys, I really missed. Why should that be? In every respect, the BMWs and the Victory outperformed the Harleys in every feature of performance. What does this have to do with MG you ask?
The MG reaches me in a way that the Harleys did and it handily outperforms any Harley in any measure of performance. But MG competes (if that is the correct word) with each of those brands, especially as the MG''s are configured now with the engines they use and the frame geometry. Although I think my Cali Custom is going to be a very capable tourer, I think of it as a "sport cruiser", but maybe a little closer to Harley than BMW in the audience that might be its natural target.
I think to expand their market share, they must have broader exposure. People have to try these bikes to really appreciate them. This starts with the dealers. A radical change would be for the factory to "floor plan" the dealer's inventory and make sure that bikes are available in each model. They need at least one dealer in every state. They need to support their dealers to the hilt. They need to try to find a reason to warranty repair everything they can, unlike BMW which takes the opposite approach. In other words, like Honda cars when they first tried to enter our market, they need to buy their reputation. Those first Hondas were not the paragons of virtue that new ones are, they had lots of problems, but the dealer support and service were second to none.
Corporately, they need to sell tradition similar to Harley. Promote a lifestyle. I went to my first Guzzi rally last month and it was one of the best I have ever attended with the most outgoing people. They need to get that in front of the riding public. Ever notice how the magazines lead in fall with the latest rocket bikes and it takes until June to see anything about MG? That needs to change.
Who knows, maybe they should hire me.
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I didn't buy a new Guzzi for power , I would have got a Suzuki , power has Nothing to do with it !
I didn't buy a new Guzzi for fancy electronics , the less fancy --- the better . Keep it simple please.
I did buy a new Guzzi because its "Lighter than my Harley"
I did buy a new Guzzi because its "Air cooled"
I did buy a new Guzzi because its got the "V" in the right direction
I did buy a new Guzzi because its got "Push-Rods" instead of cam chain
I was disappointed that the six gears got closer together instead of "Wider-Ranging with an Interstate Gear" If I wanted a Sport-Bike ... I'd get a Suzuki
I was disappointed in the lack of fork-mounted windshield mounts - had to make my own. (think Memphis Shields).
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In my opinion, I think they need to be able to share some major parts between different models. I think a somewhat modern naked bike with 100+ hp and quality suspension could share a lot of components with a modern GT and a sport-touring bike and perhaps an adventure tourer...wait, update or at least base them on the CARC bikes design.
Update the existing engines with water cooled heads or...use design some new engines that use the basic Aprilia design but built to the Guzzi layout. Surely using existing cylinders, pistons, rods, etc could save some money.
Oh and keep making the old tech small blocks as long as possible since they seem to sell.
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Liquid cooling , would KILL the whole idea of having a Guzzi , There are plenty Liquid cooled bikes out there to choose from .
So , What are the Air-Cooled Options to those who like Air-Cooled :
Enfield ... Chain drive - :rolleyes: :embarassed:
All those little China Bikes ... again Chain drive - :rolleyes: :embarassed:
Triumph ... again Chain drive - :rolleyes: :embarassed:
Harley ... Seem to think Heavy Weight is a Good thing - :rolleyes: :embarassed:
Honda ... air/oil cooled ... again Chain Drive - :rolleyes: :embarassed:
Nope : Guzzi is in a : "Class-by-Itself " ... That may be their best trait :smiley: :cool:
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No all out sport bike attempts but...a serious sport tourer. The Norge is close but needs cruise control at the very least and electronic adjustable suspension as an option and better designed side cases. Second, a new great all around naked big block. Third, a good two up touring bike. The current 1400 is toooo big. Fourth, a small block true adventure bike. Not much compation in that segment.
Other.....better overall quality control and when there is a screw up, back it up and fix the damn problem. Last, somehow build a wider dealer network, train the techs well, and work well with the dealers. Continue expanding marketing.
GliderJohn
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I am new to the MG lineup. I have had 4 BMW's and 2 Harleys and 1 Victory. My first 2 BMW's were bought used based on the reputation, number 3 was new and 4 was used. The Harleys were new in 92 and 06. I bought the BMW's because of my desire to tour and their reputation (not entirely true) for reliability. The Harleys just because at each time, I wanted them. I had great trips on the BMW's but except for the first which was the iconic R100RS, I don't shed a tear for any of the other 3 or the Victory (25,000 miles in 3 years and perfect mechanically). The Harleys, I really missed. Why should that be? In every respect, the BMWs and the Victory outperformed the Harleys in every feature of performance. What does this have to do with MG you ask?
The MG reaches me in a way that the Harleys did and it handily outperforms any Harley in any measure of performance. But MG competes (if that is the correct word) with each of those brands, especially as the MG''s are configured now with the engines they use and the frame geometry. Although I think my Cali Custom is going to be a very capable tourer, I think of it as a "sport cruiser", but maybe a little closer to Harley than BMW in the audience that might be its natural target.
So much of your post rings true to me that I'm reluctant to disagree with any of it.
I bought my first Harleys in 93 and 96 because they spoke to me.
I bought BMWs chasing some perception of better tech or performance, neither of which really matters as much as I thought it would to me. The bikes were too appliance-like, too antiseptic.
Then I went on a cathartic "I'll look at everything available from every manufacturer for about $10k search" trying to be open minded and stumbled upon Guzzi.
It was as if the red-headed stepchild of the motorcycle industry was the love child of a BMW and Harley. The shaft, easy valve adjustments, Brembo brakes of a BMW with a visceral V-Twin of a Harley that spoke to me.
As a continued fan of both marques I'd argue with your characterization of what sounds like a Tonti Cali beating any Harley in any performance metric, it's just patently not true. But that said it is true that generally speaking most Guzzis are more performance oriented than most Harleys and I get that additional function.
I think Guzzi could and should cash in on that position...a classic brand that offers the heritage and visceral pleasure of a Harley combined with the performance of a BMW.... There should be a market for that if packaged correctly.
I do think the V7 strikes the chord... But can't carry the whole team alone on 50 hp.
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I agree ..... but I don't know who that would be. Any thoughts?
Bob
Polaris?
I did buy a new Guzzi because its got "Push-Rods" instead of cam chain
? the cam chain drives the cam that actuates the push rods.
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:sad: :sad: :sad:
 the cam chain drives the cam that actuates the push rods.
:sad:
I didn't know that ... :undecided:
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OK Brad , it's time for the giraffe thingie :laugh:
Dusty
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BMW is doing pretty good right now. Sales are up. Profits are up. And it isn't the singles and 4's that are doing it.
It's bikes that honor the past while using current technology.
1. Their #1 selling bike is the GS. A new Stelvio 1200 comes to mind.
2. Their #2 selling bike is the R9T. A few models that build on Guzzi tradition would help.
And not small blocks. A new big block 1000S or LeMans for instance.
M
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Why does Guzzi need anything? They will evolve along as they have for decades and the suspender-snappers will wait to buy 3 year old new bikes and then wonder why dealers are scarce.
The current range is good and there is little doubt that new emission standards will drive any significant drivetrain changes.
Guzzi has not been a big producer. They don't need to be, they do what they do and there is a group of motorcyclists who appreciate the unique value of that, myself included. I don't want the most popular mainstream lifestyle appliance. And if I ever do my brother has instructions to smother me.
Hunter
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Well...
... If we pooled all of our money could come up with a down payment ? We have a couple of very savvy business types here .
Dust
We could at least have fun whilst sucking the treasury dry. Hire Pete Roper as public relations spokesperson. Squatch is in charge of hiring and the sexxyterries. Turnip is product testing. Dusty is union officer. Shorty will write all the snobby commercials. Tom is in charge of warehousing and shipping. Lannis and HD Goose handle complaint department. LowRyter will smooze the govt and handle bribery. Doug and Dave run the employee mess and wine cellar. Luap will.live nearby in Monte Carlo and handle the asset management. Damn Yankee will translate. Who have I missed?
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In order:
1. Quality control
2. Product development
3. Marketing
4. Dealer network
Thing is they are FANTASTIC bikes, but they keep getting crippled by STUPID SHIT:
* Bad hydros
* Bad clutches
* Bad upper steering clamps
* Bad fuel lines
* Bad fuel filters
* Bad instrument clusters
* Bad 8v, valve trains
It's not the occasional failure, as much as the pattern ones that go for A LONG time, long after they should have fixed them, that bother me.
But some should NEVER have happened in the first place.
:1: I bought a 2014 Touring new. History with just under 14k miles. 2 sets of front rotors, leaking bags, random hard grabbing clutch, right header randomly coming loose and recently 2 of the four bolts holding part of the oil circulation system started leaking and had to be tightened. I love this bike but would never buy another Guzzi. There is no excuse for these kinds of things to be happening to a modern motorcycle. I have had jap bikes in the past with zero problems, no soul but zero problems.
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We could at least have fun whilst sucking the treasury dry. Hire Pete Roper as public relations spokesperson. Squatch is in charge of hiring and the sexxyterries. Turnip is product testing. Dusty is union officer. Shorty will write all the snobby commercials. Tom is in charge of warehousing and shipping. Lannis and HD Goose handle complaint department. LowRyter will smooze the govt and handle bribery. Doug and Dave run the employee mess and wine cellar. Luap will.live nearby in Monte Carlo and handle the asset management. Damn Yankee will translate. Who have I missed?
ME? I'll make the videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lwzsg7pfLQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMQ9LdqzUzI&t=20s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrAgGqJdYdM&t=5s
sorry about the ads just click the x to off them
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I'll take Test Pilot :boozing:
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Union officer my azz , I wanna be in charge of hiring the models for the shows :grin:
Dusty
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Thanks Shorty, make me the bag man.
I'll shmoooze it for ya, the "new engine" debuting at EiCMA will solve all the issues.
Believe me.
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Union officer my azz , I wanna be in charge of hiring the models for the shows :grin:
Dusty
You might can outrun the Squatch, but don't let him get a holt of ya...... :grin:
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Thanks Shorty, make me the bag man.
I'll shmoooze it for ya, the "new engine" debuting at EiCMA will solve all the issues.
Believe me.
It'll be YUGE!!
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I think a retro styled V9 in SP livery would do it for me!
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I don't figure myself competent to understand what Moto Guzzi needs since I'm not really up on their business intent and such.
From my perspective, the V7III engine update is terrific and the V7III line of motorcycles is exactly what I expect from Moto Guzzi. A few more options in the V9 line with respect to a sportier version with more traditional Guzzi sporting good looks would help too.
I like simple, easy to maintain machines that make intelligent use of modern electronics and capabilities, and have useful real-world performance. I don't need 150 horsepower mega screamers of any kind, and I don't really need 900lb two-up touring boats either. That describes the V7III line extremely well; the Racer fits me perfectly and does everything I want. A V9 Racer LeMans with the same kind of power as my long lost LeMans 1000 mark V would be terrific too.
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We could at least have fun whilst sucking the treasury dry. Hire Pete Roper as public relations spokesperson. Squatch is in charge of hiring and the sexxyterries. Turnip is product testing. Dusty is union officer. Shorty will write all the snobby commercials. Tom is in charge of warehousing and shipping. Lannis and HD Goose handle complaint department. LowRyter will smooze the govt and handle bribery. Doug and Dave run the employee mess and wine cellar. Luap will.live nearby in Monte Carlo and handle the asset management. Damn Yankee will translate. Who have I missed?
Me.
I could represent the fact that Guzzis of the last decade have hit the perfect balance of sophistication and simplicity to allow routine riding of 30,000+ miles per year, while still being among the most enjoyable bikes to ride.
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Maybe it's not all the bikes-could it be the riders? What I mean is the US motorcycle press are always touting the benefits and "betterness" of the latest and greatest bikes with the most HP and advanced electronics. Gotta have 27 settings for everything.
Oh no. You mean your aux lights won't signal the space station when you switch to high beam? Are you NUTZ?! You can't possibly ride an old bike that doesn't do THAT now, can you! And it's on and on. Like doing the 1/4 mile in 11.3 seconds is so much better than last years bike that did it in 11.9. It's crazy talk.
Now, that's NOT to say anything about or against those who like that. You get to do what you want with your money. Point is the M/C mags push that type of agenda a lot. Then, when they write about a Guzzi or similar (is there similar?) it's with a slant. For better or worse or whatever.
I guess part of the point is who are they (Guzzi) building bikes for? If it's for the head up competition with BMW and KTM and Ducati and so forth, as mentioned above, they are doomed IMO. The press will always portray them as second fiddle. That won't matter to us but it'll be a very heavy lift to get others to try a Guzzi in that scenario.
By no means a complete thought here. Anybody else have a thought on this from a different angle?
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I used to think I knew, now I'm not so sure.
I'm with you there Chad. Buyers are aging. The younger generation thinks differently then we did. Talk of a water cooled motor to pass future emissions will change things for sure. Things sure appear to be stalled at the factory.
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Hell, I don't know.
On other boards, (guns, whatever) examples show up where folks stated "if Acme made the "D" model with X, Y & Z I would buy one in a heartbeat." The company produces that. Result, dog sales?
Sometimes a corporation does know better.
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About the moto press . Everyone complains about the journos , but almost every test of Moto Guzzis going back to the early 1970's I can remember gave good reviews . The testers usually started out mentioning the quirks , which sent Guzzisti into raging foaming at the mouth fits (OK , an exaggeration , but you get my point) before moving onto how much they enjoyed riding the bikes .
So maybe the press was never the issue , maybe motorcyclists being conservative (not the political type) sent them clamoring for bikes built in the hundreds of thousands , and not towards the products produced by that little motorbike builder on the lake . Most folks follow the herd fellas, even the supposed rugged individualist types who buy a certain American brand . Just how it is .
Dusty
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What Guzzi needs to do is invent a time machine to travel back about 50 years. Then do the opposite of what they did for the last 50 years.
They should also come up with some new catchy model names like the Molasses in January, Lead Balloon, The Slug, The Anvil.....and paint one of them like 1990's 1000S. That should do it. Or they should come up with an accessory faux external flywheel to bolt onto and V7 model to make it a bacon slicer. It would be cool like the fake Harley kicker kits.
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I am happy with my v7 III completely. The one new feature that I think would benefit the entire line and be competitive is addition of a slipper clutch, which many bikes have now and not just sport bikes. Especially for those times when shifting down a bit early.
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Bikes with a reasonable seat to ground and seat to controls measurements .What I'm trying to say someone who is 5-8 can reach the ground like the original Eldo 1972 and and also have a reasonably comfortable reach to the controls I would have probably bought a good newer guzzi but the Dimensions from the seat to the controls to the handlebars to the ground do not work for me as a five foot eight person I may have bought other Guzzis newer models than I had currently ride I am not in favor of the V series 7 etc whatever they're making today because it doesn't work for me although they're probably very good motorcycles
TOMB
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Most folks follow the herd fellas, even the supposed rugged individualist types who buy a certain American brand . Just how it is .
Dusty
Of course anyone following the herd would not ride in the first place.
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Bikes with a reasonable seat to ground and seat to controls measurements .What I'm trying to say someone who is 5-8 can reach the ground like the original Eldo 1972 and and also have a reasonably comfortable reach to the controls I would have probably bought a good newer guzzi but the Dimensions from the sea to the controls to the handlebars to the ground do not work for me as a five foot eight person I may have bought other Guzzis newer models than I had currently ride I am not in favor of the V series 7 etc whatever they're making today because it doesn't work for me although they're probably very good motorcycles
TOMB
Wait, what doesn't work for you, surely not the dimensions right?
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I'm in a different camp on this subject. I believe you have to really WANT to own a Guzzi. They are a small, niche market manufacturer serving a world-wide customer base. I've never really seen accurate sales information but believe their annual production is in the 7 to 8K units/year, with only about 10% coming to the US and maybe Canada. Those are small numbers. As a result, some things become obvious.
First, unless you're really lucky, you're going to live some distance away from your closest dealer. My dealer, Rose Farms, is 450 miles from where I live.
Second, getting warranty and service work done by you dealer takes "special arrangements and planning". I always tried to run past Rose Farms on the way to some other destination to get the necessary work done.
Third, you probably need to have some mechanical skills (or a buddy who works for beer) to take care of the normal maintenance and simple repairs to your bike. That saves on the number of trips to the dealership.
Fourth, plan on getting your maintenance and repair parts via telephone and UPS. Most dealers don't keep other than the basics in stock, so there may be a waiting time. However, you can check multiple dealers for your parts.
Fifth, being a small company they certainly have a very small engineering staff so new designs are not thoroughly tested. There will be some hiccups -- the big block 4V cam/cam follower situation comes to mind. Also, being a small company, they may not react to product problems as quickly or as thoroughly as desired. The fact that they are probably "cash strapped" doesn't help.
Now, after having said all this, my three years and 30K miles with the '12 Stelvio were wonderful. If I hadn't gotten old and it became a bit heavy for me, I'd still be riding it.
That's my $0.02. Ride safe.
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more sales
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yeah, so far as getting parts: I ordered a new clutch for my Suzuki a week ago last Friday. They should be at the shop next week.
I get my parts from Harpers, MG, MI, etc., and they are at my door in 3 or 4 days.
10-14 days vs 3 or 4 days.
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Other manufacturers have been investing heavily in small displacement motorcycles to attract new riders; perhaps Moto Guzzi should be doing likewise. A 300cc single with a retro vibe could open up the marque to new generations who might later upgrade to the V7/9 and so forth.
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Kevin M my reference was to the Eldorado the new version if I sit on the seat and yes I can reach the ground I can't reach the forward controls nor if I put position myself to reach the forward controls I can't reach the handlebars and I'm too far forward on the seat people do not have a 40 inch inseam in most cases it seems like Guzzi should probably factor that in
TOMB
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Kevin M my reference was to the Eldorado the new version if I sit on the seat and yes I can reach the ground I can't reach the forward controls nor if I put position myself to reach the forward controls I can't reach the handlebars and I'm too far forward on the seat people do not have a 40 inch inseam in most cases it seems like Guzzi should probably factor that in
TOMB
Oh sorry, I was asking what about the V7 series doesn't work. My bad.
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I'm in a different camp on this subject. I believe you have to really WANT to own a Guzzi. They are a small, niche market manufacturer serving a world-wide customer base. I've never really seen accurate sales information but believe their annual production is in the 7 to 8K units/year, with only about 10% coming to the US and maybe Canada. Those are small numbers. As a result, some things become obvious.
First, unless you're really lucky, you're going to live some distance away from your closest dealer. My dealer, Rose Farms, is 450 miles from where I live.
Second, getting warranty and service work done by you dealer takes "special arrangements and planning". I always tried to run past Rose Farms on the way to some other destination to get the necessary work done.
Third, you probably need to have some mechanical skills (or a buddy who works for beer) to take care of the normal maintenance and simple repairs to your bike. That saves on the number of trips to the dealership.
Fourth, plan on getting your maintenance and repair parts via telephone and UPS. Most dealers don't keep other than the basics in stock, so there may be a waiting time. However, you can check multiple dealers for your parts.
Fifth, being a small company they certainly have a very small engineering staff so new designs are not thoroughly tested. There will be some hiccups -- the big block 4V cam/cam follower situation comes to mind. Also, being a small company, they may not react to product problems as quickly or as thoroughly as desired. The fact that they are probably "cash strapped" doesn't help.
Now, after having said all this, my three years and 30K miles with the '12 Stelvio were wonderful. If I hadn't gotten old and it became a bit heavy for me, I'd still be riding it.
That's my $0.02. Ride safe.
Guess I am lucky. Nearest dealer is 3 miles away. Their primary line is Ducati, and I think MG fits well with the ducks.
Everybody needs to remember that for MG bringing out a whole new engine/model is a significant risk to the company. The V7 series bikes are a safe bet, and it would not hurt if they made the V9's a bit more normal looking.
Truthfully, the main pulls of MG for me was the fit and finish, and the big gas tank on the v7. It makes a great daily use bike. If the scrambler was more dual sport with luggage, I might have bought that.
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They need a real sport bike to enhance their image. Some liquid-cooled heads and an additional twenty horsepower on a sexy Latin roadster would make their entire lineup look better...
Ummm...
Liquid cooled donk in the .......MGS???
Reckon as an alternative..
Don't build anymore new bikes. Just turn the current crop of young riders, into grumbly old farts!
There'll be a new factory pop up in Mandello to cope with the demand !
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Of course anyone following the herd would not ride in the first place.
In fact most motorbike owners ride very little . Isn't the average only about 2,000 miles a year , including all of us who actually put on some miles .
Dusty
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Start researching an electric one!
Hopefully I'll be dead before it goes on sale, but it'll sell.
The old farts could put playing cards in the spokes...
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In order:
1. Quality control
2. Product development
3. Marketing
4. Dealer network
A
Thing is they are FANTASTIC bikes, but they keep getting crippled by STUPID SHIT:
* Bad hydros
* Bad clutches
* Bad upper
steering clamps
* Bad fuel lines
* Bad fuel filters
* Bad instrument clusters
* Bad 8v, valve trains
It's not the occasional failure, as much as the pattern ones that go for A LONG time, long after they should have fixed them, that bother me.
But some should NEVER have happened in the first place.
Totally agree with every aspect you listed
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I think they need to be bought by Fiat/Chrysler. They seem to understand tradition and performance.
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In order:
1. Quality control
2. Product development
3. Marketing
4. Dealer network
Thing is they are FANTASTIC bikes, but they keep getting crippled by STUPID SHIT:
.......
:1:
Well said!
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Dusty,
To be clear I was not commenting on Guzzi reviews as such but the overall tone of most reviews in American magazines.
I've got to think that at least for some that the "newest and most HP' reviews help set the tone for a great many buyers.
Heck, on other forums one can read over and over the back and forth involving bench racing.
Guzzi makes a nice platform for real world riding as I've discovered.
Very interesting discussion.
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I think quality is always a concern with smaller brands but MG's #1 problem in the US has to be lack of brand recognition. How do you know you want an MG if you've never heard of MG? 99% of the people that have come up and complimented my bike have never even heard of MG. If I were part of the Piaggio US brass I would be wondering how to get product placement in movies and TV shows, maybe even in other brands commercials. MG has to be a household name before it will land on the average buyer's short list.
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Dusty,
To be clear I was not commenting on Guzzi reviews as such but the overall tone of most reviews in American magazines.
I've got to think that at least for some that the "newest and most HP' reviews help set the tone for a great many buyers.
Heck, on other forums one can read over and over the back and forth involving bench racing.
Guzzi makes a nice platform for real world riding as I've discovered.
Very interesting discussion.
To be fair, not all moto journalists subscribe to the "bigger is better" mantra...
... And seemingly the public responds to it as well:
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/why-some-riders-are-downsizing-to-smaller-motorcycles
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....Fourth, a small block true adventure bike. Not much compation in that segment.
Two immediately come to mind, both chain drive:
BMW F800GS
V-Strom
But, like the NTX650 and NTX750, a modern Guzzi small block adventure bike would be shaft drive.
The R100GS still has a loyal following use still use them as ADV bikes. A big reason is because there are no other shaft driven ADV bikes under 500#. I've ridden both the F800GS and R1200GS off road. The R1200GS is a heavy beast. The F800GS is good 80# lighter. I much prefer the riding F800GS to the R1200GS, but, wish it was shaft drive. If Guzzi built a NTX850 with the V9 motor, I'd seriously consider buying it. They should be different than the other ADV bikes out there today, and NOT put a damned beak on it. In fact, they could even make it retro and style it like the NTX650 and NTX750.
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I agree 100% kev. Not all , but (fill in the blank here) 60%, 70%?
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In order:
1. Quality control
2. Product development
3. Marketing
4. Dealer network
= A business plan. That simple.
But, premise 1: "realistic" - With an Italian company, expect a wasted opportunity.
And premise 2: "economies" - I'm not certain Piaggio have the financial muscle even it they should wish to try to expand their little niche in the motorcycle market.
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I have to think of my daughters and what they would want from Guzzi. They both love the V7 style and shaft drive. But One of them is too short legged to ride it (believe me we have tried) and the other just prefers a more scooter like bike... that is to say a covered engine, twist n go throttle, lots of bag hooks and 'trunk space' and ease of handling.., all without losing a classic Italian style.
Perhaps Guzzi could make a cute, utilitarian, smaller displacement bike that might bring more female and smaller statured riders into the fold. I know Piaggio already has Vespa, but Guzzi might bring their own interpretation of a scooter-like motorbike that might be appealing. A kind of 'crossover' scooter/motorcycle based on a 400/500 cc shaft driven thumper.
As far as economy goes, it would be marketable to many Asian countries that thrive on small displacement bikes which may help fund the bigger performance bikes some of us love. Just my 0.02
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Your questions are very open ended.
A Consumer Market would be a good start. The New unit sells is down for all brands and is not expected to grow for 5 years per MCN magazine. That is a pretty liberal claim.
Moto Guzzi is not in the top 8. Moving up one or two places still does not put them close to 2nd or 3rd place.
Designing and building a new model or models to meet the demands of Who? I like the old stuff. I am 59 y.o. Who would the designers design and build for? New young riders, New old riders, Old riders?
Being in a meeting of designers and marketing would be an interesting day. So many variables. Big, small, gas, electric are just a few of the niches.
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Maybe it's not all the bikes-could it be the riders? What I mean is the US motorcycle press are always touting the benefits and "betterness" of the latest and greatest bikes with the most HP and advanced electronics. Gotta have 27 settings for everything.
Oh no. You mean your aux lights won't signal the space station when you switch to high beam? Are you NUTZ?! You can't possibly ride an old bike that doesn't do THAT now, can you! And it's on and on. Like doing the 1/4 mile in 11.3 seconds is so much better than last years bike that did it in 11.9. It's crazy talk.
Now, that's NOT to say anything about or against those who like that. You get to do what you want with your money. Point is the M/C mags push that type of agenda a lot. Then, when they write about a Guzzi or similar (is there similar?) it's with a slant. For better or worse or whatever.
I guess part of the point is who are they (Guzzi) building bikes for? If it's for the head up competition with BMW and KTM and Ducati and so forth, as mentioned above, they are doomed IMO. The press will always portray them as second fiddle. That won't matter to us but it'll be a very heavy lift to get others to try a Guzzi in that scenario.
By no means a complete thought here. Anybody else have a thought on this from a different angle?
I'm with you ................. I hope they can stay true and not end up as another me too act.
Ciao
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What Guzzi needs is to advertise and glamorize the Guzzi V-Twin, which is,
The most captivating, mesmerizing, most stunningly beautiful engine in the entire industry:
(http://www.dansher.com/bikepix/GuzziMoon_4U.jpg)
Guzzi: Stop spending ad money on pretty boys, hot women, and tribal rap music. All you need is a series of 30-second videos with the exhaust note, the wind, and the Guzzi V-Twin. Begin with a picture of the red Guzzi Eagle badge glowing in the first light of dawn, end with that same badge bathed in sunset light 700 miles away.
Make 'Guzzi Reliability' a real-time legend with meat on its bones. Keep it simple, keep it honest.
'Geezer
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I think Guzzi should come out with a trike that costs less than $25K. This would appeal to old riders, short riders, and women riders. Those Guzzi jugs out front would look perfect compared to all other trikes. :thumb: There would be no other trikes like them and they would be easy to work on or park. :boozing:
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What Guzzi needs is to advertise and glamorize the Guzzi V-Twin, which is,
The most captivating, mesmerizing, most stunningly beautiful engine in the entire industry:
(http://www.dansher.com/bikepix/GuzziMoon_4U.jpg)
Guzzi: Stop spending ad money on pretty boys, hot women, and tribal rap music. All you need is a series of 30-second videos with the exhaust note, the wind, and the Guzzi V-Twin. Begin with a picture of the red Guzzi Eagle badge glowing first in the early light of dawn, end with that same badge bathed in sunset light 700 miles away.
Make 'Guzzi Reliability' a real-time legend with meat on its bones. Keep it simple, keep it honest.
'Geezer
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I agree with you motogeezer. An ad featuring all you mention with a trim male/female rider (maybe two ads, one for the boys and one for the girls), and at the end of a spectacularly beautiful ride on a gorgeous bike with that sexy Guzzi rumble, the rider dismounts, takes helmet off revealing a handsome/attractive rider with just a bit of grey hair/beard...
this might appeal across generations. ??
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Ya'll , got a good point : There ain't nothing wrong with the product , its the presentation that needs help. :grin:
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I think Guzzi should come out with a trike that costs less than $25K. This would appeal to old riders, short riders, and women riders. Those Guzzi jugs out front would look perfect compared to all other trikes. :thumb: There would be no other trikes like them and they would be easy to work on or park. :boozing:
You mean like Rodekyll's trike ?
Dusty
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all you have to do is go to The V9 roamer final drive update thread.
the whole problem is Guzzis' factory owners just don't give a crap about the owners or dealers!
without happy customers both retail and wholesale you will never grow as a co.
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You mean like Rodekyll's trike ?
Dusty
No, with 16"wider wheels and not as big a storage compartment in back. RKs is built like a utility trike. :azn: Not that there's anything wrong with that. RKs is like a Ural trike would probably look.
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My issue with guzzi is the most basic but probably the most destructive to the company. In my state of NC I have virtually no customer support service. We have one dealer and for me it over 100 miles away and almost unaffordable. If it was not for this forum and a bunch of great guys that’s always willing to help us less fortunate mechanically minded folks, I would not own one of these oddities.
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My issue with guzzi is the most basic but probably the most destructive to the company. In my state of NC I have virtually no customer support service. We have one dealer and for me it over 100 miles away and almost unaffordable. If it was not for this forum and a bunch of great guys that�s always willing to help us less fortunate mechanically minded folks, I would not own one of these oddities.
So you're saying the mothership should help pay the bills here ? Hmm , do we get a raise ? :rolleyes:
Dusty
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We could at least have fun whilst sucking the treasury dry. Hire Pete Roper as public relations spokesperson. Squatch is in charge of hiring and the sexxyterries. Turnip is product testing. Dusty is union officer. Shorty will write all the snobby commercials. Tom is in charge of warehousing and shipping. Lannis and HD Goose handle complaint department. LowRyter will smooze the govt and handle bribery. Doug and Dave run the employee mess and wine cellar. Luap will.live nearby in Monte Carlo and handle the asset management. Damn Yankee will translate. Who have I missed?
I can run the QA function but you're not going to like it. We got requirements ....
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So you're saying the mothership should help pay the bills here ? Hmm , do we get a raise ? :rolleyes:
Dusty
I don’t think we can come up with enough money to pay you what you’re worth Dusty. So I reckon you and the rest of the knowledgeable guys here will just have to be satisfied with a heart filled, thank you for your service 👍
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Guys,
To be real and honest, they need to pair down their entries. They are trying to cover too many lines. The cost is killing them and their reliability. Unfortunately, their arrogance will be their end.
Pop
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With the new motor in the offering, it looks like they may have a replacement for the CARC bikes demise. That would leave them with the small block (V7 and V9), the 1400 California line, and a mid size engine for a new naked sport, a faired sport touring, and an adventure bike, all sharing the same basic architecture and drive train. Hopefully that new drive train will consist of output similar to the old CARC bikes and maybe in a bit lighter chassis.
They do need to work on the consistency of building bikes with properly greased bearings, torqued bolts, and tested designs. I don't own a Guzzi right now, but I will close with this thought, my Guzzi's were some of the most pleasurable bikes I have ever ridden and at the same time some of the most frustrating bikes I have ever owned.
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I think Guzzi should come out with a trike that costs less than $25K. This would appeal to old riders, short riders, and women riders. Those Guzzi jugs out front would look perfect compared to all other trikes. :thumb: There would be no other trikes like them and they would be easy to work on or park. :boozing:
Spine Frame Trike. Not your typical gas tank between your legs, just engine and spine. 500 pounds. 12 inch slicks out back, 500 pounds. Seat about 10 inches off the ground. Big Wheel Fun.
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I don't own a Guzzi right now, but I will close with this thought, my Guzzi's were some of the most pleasurable bikes I have ever ridden and at the same time some of the most frustrating bikes I have ever owned.
< Doning flame suit>
That's why I have TWO HARLEYS, and one Guzzi.
I decided my blood pressure would be better with only one Guzzi in the garage for now and two easy, reliable, don't worry about it Harleys.
< / Flame suit>
But I'll add that I could see a time in the future I'd try to own two Guzzis at the same time again.... And hell that V7III blue Special tempts me.
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I can run the QA function but you're not going to like it. We got requirements ....
:grin: I have been getting around QA for 30 odd years. Ain't nothing a little zinc chromate, teflon based paint applied real thick, or a well placed bag of chocolate chip cookies can't fix. :wink:
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First, I think what Guzzi needs most of all is for more people to try them out.
With the transversal V-twin the bike has this special kind of vibe, if you're sensitive to this then you're hooked. But if you never try one out then you'll never know.
Still remember my very first time on a Guzzi. 1996, was looking for a replacement for my zx9r as it was just too good and boring a bike. Also did not like the monthly payments so needed something cheaper. Stopped at this second hand bike place in Rotterdam, one of those flea market style places. Saw a Guzzi LM3 in quite bad nick and not complete (no airbox but K&N filters, wind screen broken, both head had 2 or 3 fins broken off). But the price was right so I thought I'd give it a go. The moment it started and went into its idle I was done for. "If this thing makes it of the lot then I'll buy it" . I still remember the sheer joy of the rest ride. Not because of the handling (scary) or speed, purely based on the feel of the engine.
I think a lot more people are susceptible to the unique feel of a Guzzi. But as long as they don't try one they will never know. For me it was a chance encounter, but that LM3 so far has been my all time favorite bike (in 27 years of motorcycling).
Here locally there are tons of Guzzi dealers around so that is not the problem (there's like 5 in a 10 mile radius). But the local BMW and Harley dealers, at least 2 times a year have test ride days where they bring all the bikes to a big parking lot at the local twisties, and everyone who wants to can have a go. The threshold to just try one is very, very low. Guzzi's, quite the opposite.The dealers are small, with only a few bikes. The threshold for a test ride is very high as you are often asking the guy to take a brand new bike off the floor. In my search I've visited dealers 60 miles away for a test ride, just to get a bike with a few 100 miles on it and not have the bad feeling of having the shop make a new bike second hand (here in CH bikes are not considered new anymore even with a few km on it)
Second, sometimes Italian styling and marketing works against them. With my first few bikes (as a poor student in 1990) being late 70-ies CB400F and GS750E, I like the look of the bikes of the 70-ies. All guzzi's from around 2000 look ugly to me and I would never get one. A Centauro might have looked stylish in Milan, for me in the real world, never. I am happy now they have the V7 and V9. But even there they go kind of wrong in a sense that 'the V7 is for this market and the V9 for that market' . Who cares, if lots of people want a V9 with V7 looks than you build that, who cares if it doesn't fit in that model lines phylosophy ?
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I think they are doing just fine. They will never be anything but a small motorcycle manufacturer, and I like it that way. They must be doing something right to stay in business since 1921.
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I think they need to continue making exceptionally well balanced bikes with whatever technical innovations they can deliver. Bikes with soul. Bikes that speak to the rider.
Maybe one way to get the answer would be instead to ask, "What made you buy a Guzzi?"
Matt
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:grin: I have been getting around QA for 30 odd years. Ain't nothing a little zinc chromate, teflon based paint applied real thick, or a well placed bag of chocolate chip cookies can't fix. :wink:
YMMV depending on the product line, and the outlook applied to the outfit. This century I work in ruggedized computers, and paint only absolves some of our sins. I feel the most sympathy for folks in the medical and automotive lines - even the aircraft guys have it easier than them.
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From Wheaties:
"What made you buy a Guzzi?"
Sad to say there were only two reasons I bought my first my first Guzzi. First, the only reason I was even aware of what a Guzzi was, was due to word of mouth. Second, the deal was too good to pass up, i.e. cheap. Figured at the time that if I didn't like it I could probably get my money back out of it. However the 90 mile ride home from the purchase site sold me on Guzzi and the rest is history.
GliderJohn
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Maybe one way to get the answer would be instead to ask, "What made you buy a Guzzi?"
Matt
I found an interesting looking bike, no idea what it was. I said how much, he said 2 Lite beers. I said I'd be right back.
35+ years with the Eldo!
Tom
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My $.02 worth (take with a grain of salt). What Guzzi needs is:
1. Younger audience.
Yep. That's it. Appeal to a younger group of enthusiasts and everything else will follow suit.
Am I wrong? Probably. I don't know squat about designing, building, marketing and then selling motorcycles. But, I do know that we are all getting older. It's something to say that I'm probably one of the youngest on this forum at almost 48 years old. We need 20-30 somethings to take an interest. Sadly, most 20-30 somethings are still living in mommies basement, eating Cheetos, drinking red bull and playing call of duty every waken moment.
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Simple............. .Carc bikes.....with everything they had before but improved upon in every way. build the best of what 'was' a giant step forward.
1000cc to 1200cc gives performance that would be competitive and unique to Guzzi and respected by the competition.
Give them great names , lemans etc and market them with a passion that relates to what Guzzi meant back then and turn it into now.
Target those that are familiar and those that want something different , and would want to be part of what Guzzi is and should be now .
In Guzzi there is no middle ground make it available to those that desire something more in a motorcycle , something modern and in time...
build that and they will come from HD and Triumph and the Japanese to experience and want something special in a motorcycle...
AND do not worry about old school Guzzi riders they are the past and not the now or the future ..just move on and get on with it ffs
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My $.02 worth (take with a grain of salt). What Guzzi needs is:
1. Younger audience.
Yep. That's it. Appeal to a younger group of enthusiasts and everything else will follow suit.
Am I wrong? Probably. I don't know squat about designing, building, marketing and then selling motorcycles. But, I do know that we are all getting older. It's something to say that I'm probably one of the youngest on this forum at almost 48 years old. We need 20-30 somethings to take an interest. Sadly, most 20-30 somethings are still living in mommies basement, eating Cheetos, drinking red bull and playing call of duty every waken moment.
How to attract younger customers is the question every motorbike manufacturer is trying to answer . HD is targeting female riders , BMW is building the R9T , Triumph markets the base Bonnie to the younger crowd , and the V7 seems to be MG's entry into that market . Maybe young folks don't really care about hi-tech motorbikes , they seem to get their tech fix with electronic toys . Dunno , but a new generation of counterculture hippies with their attitudes about 2 wheels might help .
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The bright spot for me, at age 69 and 148 lb, is that the big manufacturers are going after Asian markets hammer and tongs, which means a lot of agile, lighter bikes coming thru. Presumably Piaggio will be there with a practical 350 lb development of the V7.
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Just a data point from my perspective...
About the younger street riders, the Grom and the Z125 are going out the door of dealerships well above MSRP around here. No leftovers and no discounts to be had. And it's not old guys buying them. Also the Cyclegear bike nights (where the younger folks in their 20's gather around here) were having more and more 250 and 300 sport bikes showing up, along with the mid-sized naked SV650, FZ07 for stunting and general hooligan riding. The older guys (in their 30's and early 40's) were still riding the supersports and superbikes.
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Force your son or daughter to come on trips, either on the back or on their own Guzzi (preferably) and make sure the first few are as devoid of drama as possible. This will build memories that are inexorably linked to the feelings of fun, freedom and a great life.
At some point your kid will just become a "Guzzi person" and wouldn't bother going if it was on a GS 500 Suzuki or such...
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Force your son or daughter to come on trips, either on the back or on their own Guzzi (preferably) and make sure the first few are as devoid of drama as possible. This will build memories that are inexorably linked to the feelings of fun, freedom and a great life.
At some point your kid will just become a "Guzzi person" and wouldn't bother going if it was on a GS 500 Suzuki or such...
Force ? Yeah , that's gonna work :laugh:
Dusty
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Just a data point from my perspective...
About the younger street riders, the Grom and the Z125 are going out the door of dealerships well above MSRP around here. No leftovers and no discounts to be had. And it's not old guys buying them. Also the Cyclegear bike nights (where the younger folks in their 20's gather around here) were having more and more 250 and 300 sport bikes showing up, along with the mid-sized naked SV650, FZ07 for stunting and general hooligan riding. The older guys (in their 30's and early 40's) were still riding the supersports and superbikes.
Not for nothing but I suspect part of that is normal and part of that is generational.
Normal = it's normal for older people in a society to have more money for more expensive toys.
Generational = millennials watched their parents go through the recession and housing crisis, and have been as a group more reluctant to spend money on vehicles in general. So smaller (and cheaper) bikes appeal to their sensibilities.
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Force ? Yeah , that's gonna work :laugh:
Dusty
Just stop feeding them 'till they comply Dusty...
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Moto Guzzi doesn't have to be bigger, just more proactive in their marketing approach, and support for new/existing dealers. Sitting astride a Moto Guzzi is a visceral experience, you'll either love it, or you won't. If people aren't given the opportunity to fall in love, MG will fade into history.
1. I want advertising that makes me curious about MG, regardless of my sex/age.
2. I want a dealer network I can easily visit to experience an MG.
3. I want reviews that talk of the joy, comfort, ease, economy, and reliability of MG.
Tap into that ol' Italian penchant for romance, MG, revel in your history, ignite the potential buyers soul, and feed the love story yet to blossom.
Oh, and Norman Reedus would look so much better ridding a Guzzi. :bike-037:
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1. I want advertising that makes me curious about MG, regardless of my sex/age.
2. I want a dealer network I can easily visit to experience an MG.
3. I want reviews that talk of the joy, comfort, ease, economy, and reliability of MG.
You can have all the advertising in the world, it means nothing without quality control.
Actually same with dealer network, as dealers can't make a living if people expect their products to break.
And if the products are breaking, then reviews that talk of joy, comfort, ease, economy won't happen as they'll be focused on the lack of reliability.
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Trying to figure out what Moto Guzzi needs to build market share and increase sales in the US has been an ongoing topic for decades. In 1978 I bought my first new Moto Guzzi, a 1977 Convert. I had many Guzzis from that first one in 1978 until 2013. Most of them I loved, one I hated and one just didn't move me at all. In 2013 I traded off my last Moto Guzzi, a Cal Vintage, along with a Honda Valkyrie Interstate and my wife's H-D Sportster Low for a leftover 2012 Victory Cross Country Tour. The dealer, Randy's Cycle in Marengo, IL gave me as much for the 3 trade ins as I could have ever hoped to get on my own. The total OTD price of the Victory was a whopping $1,200! Since I guesstimated it would be about $5K, I simply added the accessories I wanted at the time of purchase.
Around that time, Guzzi had recently come out with the 1400 California Touring. I seriously looked at it and I seriously wanted to love it. I tried, but it just couldn't hold a candle to the big pearl white Victory. I wanted a bike that my wife and I could easily, effortlessly and comfortably tour on. The Vic won hands down in every category that mattered, and still matters to me. The trunk that easily holds two full face helmets comes off in about 3 minutes. And 113 rear wheel hp and 114 ft./torque went in quickly and easily as well. The Victory 106 engine and drivetrain was designed to withstand nearly double it's stock output. By installing readily available bolt on items like cams, a timing wheel, air filter, mufflers, a PCV and getting it dyno tuned. After increasing engine output it produced much less heat and gets 3+ better mpg. The Vic runs better than most would ever think it should. Many have well over 200K and even 300K miles with nothing more than routine maintenance. Very Moto Guzzi like. At least with the older 1064 engine if not the later 1200's. The Vic will run all day 2 up at 80 mph in 6th gear at 3000 rpm and return 45 mpg. The only time it's ever sees a dealer is when I get new tires. And that's about every 18K miles or so.
I'm not on this site these days like I was when I had the Guzzis. But I still have love in my heart for the Moto Guzzi brand and for the people who own them. When I read this thread, even with Polaris bailing on Victory, it solidified I made the right decision (for me) back in May of 2013.
Three of the best Guzzi dealers I knew and trusted years ago have bailed on Guzzi. Why? For all the reasons mentioned throughout this thread. At some point as I get older, I'm guessing I'll be looking for a new motorcycle. I hope Moto Guzzi will have something I want at that point. But the basics like quality control, a functioning dealer network and a bike that meets my requirements are non negotiable. Some complain about amenities like a bluetooth audio system, cruise control, seat and grip warmers, a reverse option, a low seat height etc etc etc. But once you have these things, going without them (for me) isn't going to happen.
I hope Piaggio can do, and wants to finally do, what's been needed in the US for decades. If so, I'd definitely consider getting another Moto Guzzi. If not, like my wife and I have been talking about: my next bike may very well be my current bike with a few more performance mods. 196 hp and 180 ft./torque from the 106 is as easy as bolting on a supercharger. Just because I'm getting older doesn't mean I want less power. :)
Forza Moto Guzzi
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That's so interesting. It's almost the exact opposite of what I'd want in a motorcycle. Neither are wrong or right, just different.
My Triumph dealer buddy (now dropping them as of Nov 10, 2017) was also a Victory dealer. Now, as a quick aside, what Polaris did the the Vic dealers is almost unbelievable, but that's another story altogether.
I lead over 200 demo rides over the past several years for demo days-Polaris and Triumph. Have ridden every model from both OEM's. Thought the Victory bikes were completely without character and never really felt riding it was engaging at all. But that was ME. Folks that did buy them loved the "extras" like cruise and the like. Just goes to show to each their own, and that's the way it should be. TH Mark makes a good point about the extras and I heard it all the time about the Triumph R3 Touring. Before anything else, folks would ask "where's the stereo, the cruise, the bluetooth, the power key fob", that sort of thing.
I think a huge part of the discussion needs to consider where the rider lives and rides. Where we love to go in New England and WV, for example, any big cruiser is not what any of us want or will ride there. Those that have bikes like that use them for other types of riding. Yes, I understand most riders (I think) don't have more than one motorcycle but my admittedly small sample of Guzzi riding friends all seem to have several bikes!
it's such a huge issue (bike sales on the whole are soft in 2017) and all the thoughtful ideas here hit at least part of the considerations any OEM must face.
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I have been on this forum too long. I find myself agreeing with Kev M.
- Pasta
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How to attract younger customers is the question every motorbike manufacturer is trying to answer . HD is targeting female riders , BMW is building the R9T , Triumph markets the base Bonnie to the younger crowd , and the V7 seems to be MG's entry into that market . Maybe young folks don't really care about hi-tech motorbikes , they seem to get their tech fix with electronic toys . Dunno , but a new generation of counterculture hippies with their attitudes about 2 wheels might help .
Add more power and better suspension to the V7, market directly to the 25-30+ year old males and females in targeted urban areas with vetted dealers and build out from those centers. Price of course is an issue as this group is already dealing with paying off their enormous student loans.
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We could at least have fun whilst sucking the treasury dry. Hire Pete Roper as public relations spokesperson. Squatch is in charge of hiring and the sexxyterries. Turnip is product testing. Dusty is union officer. Shorty will write all the snobby commercials. Tom is in charge of warehousing and shipping. Lannis and HD Goose handle complaint department. LowRyter will smooze the govt and handle bribery. Doug and Dave run the employee mess and wine cellar. Luap will.live nearby in Monte Carlo and handle the asset management. Damn Yankee will translate. Who have I missed?
The other 300 or so forum members...
If Guzzi built a retro styled 850 with the internals of the V9 but altered it enough to displace around 870 cc's, scaled down CARC rear end with single sided swingarm and wire wheel option, orange/red colour, don't black the motor, and take the soft edge styling away from the motor. Rocker cover reminiscent of the Le Mans. Stylised seat seat like the V7's racer but no silly numbers on the arse, twin front discs, radial Brembo's, and name it V8 Ritorno or Rinascita suggesting it's come back from the past and market bits to increase it's performance after it's passed emissions testing.
That new Kawasaki 900 on the forum the other day, has a badge on the side cover just like the old Zeds of yesteryear but bristles with modern stuff, it tips it's hat to the past but acknowledges the present. Look at the new Bonnies and Thruxtons, get into bed with Benetton and market bike aparrel.
Make sure the ergonomics are such that smaller guys and females can fit on, there are a lot of women who want to ride on something that's un apologetic.
Get Boorman and Ewan to ride around the world on a couple, that'd be a slam dunk.
Every morning the BMW bosses should fall to their knees and perform a lewd act on wax replicas of those two guys while thanking the KTM dickhead who knocked them back...
If Guzzi did the V8 thing, I'd buy on this afternoon...
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What it needs? It needs Guzzi/Piaggio CEO and other few key people to read this thread! They have all great and perfectly doable ideas listed in this four pages. Should I send them a link? :grin: Kev, FTW with Huzo's idea not bad either. Hell, that's what happened to me. :smiley:
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Why did I buy a Guzzi?
I thought I wanted a Bonneville but with a better seat. The dealer had a California that he wanted to sell. It fit the bill. What an awesome ride it has been!
Early on, I was in the Northwest corner of Connecticut when I stopped at MacDonalds because the local hot dog stand was closed for the Winter. A guy was standing by the bike, waiting for me, when I came out. "Do you realize you have nowhere to go from here? You've started at the top, there is no better bike out there", he said. "What can you possibly replace this with?"
"I don't know, maybe a Norge?"
He nodded.
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Just a thought.
I commented earlier that the V7's would look better with twin front discs and was told (quite correctly) that it doesn't need twins. I know that's true after riding one, but buyers want something that gives them a chubby, whether it needs twin discs or not, they look normal.
Have a look at the front end Old Jock did for his bike, it's worth the price of admission just for that.
Stop being "sensible" Guzzi.
Don't give people what they "need".
Give the bastards what they "want".
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I have been on this forum too long. I find myself agreeing with Kev M.
- Pasta
Don't tell him that !
He'll change his mind if you do.... :evil:
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Stop being "sensible" Guzzi.
Don't give people what they "need".
Give the bastards what they "want".
Ha ha this is just about exactly what I wrote in the other thread about smallblocks and duals.
Unless of course you want me to change my mind?!?
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Ha ha this is just about exactly what I wrote in the other thread about smallblocks and duals.
Unless of course you want me to change my mind?!?
If I had a mind like yours, I'd change it too grasshopper... :bow:
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To what do we owe that rude comment?
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=93108.0
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Sorry (publicly), was in jest...
PM sent
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Sorry (publicly), was in jest...
PM sent
No need, my bad. I deleted...
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(http://thumb.ibb.co/epyj3G/F4514130_B9_EB_4_D4_B_A8_C9_38_CF20_CCC407.jpg) (http://ibb.co/epyj3G)
Never say never.
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They just need to fix Startus Interuptus for once and for all, easy peasy and cost nothing.
This simple ailment must have lost them hundreds if not thousands of owners over the last 40 years.
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They just need to fix Startus Interuptus for once and for all, easy peasy and cost nothing.
This simple ailment must have lost them hundreds if not thousands of owners over the last 40 years.
Every chance KR...
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This is an interestic discussion. For me the question really was: "why do I want to buy a Guzzi?". In fact, I didn�t want to. It was absolutely clear: Several years ago I wanted to buy a Harley Sportster Roadster 883. Why? I love the bikes of the late 60s and the first half of the 70s. A friend allowed me to ride his immaculate Norton Commando 750 (first series). And I was sold. A classic bike like this one. But not an old one. And as new bike there were only the Kawasaki W 800 (chain drive - no go) and the Harley, which I loved (and still love) f0r decades. Ok, in a catalogue I stumbled about the Guzzi Cafe Classic, a nice bike. But: plastic tank, two throttle bodies, a bit weak. And I never liked the edgy design of the cylinders of the small block. But, it was a nice bike.
Then suddenly there appeared the stb model. All these things that did bother me were gone! As the Guzzi surely is nearer to the Norton than the Harley this choice was clear. Remained the question: where to buy? As it goes, twenty minutes from my home (with the bicycle!) there is a real good dealer! He carries Aprilia, Guzzi, Vespa, Ducati, Suzuki, Kymco, Mondial and Kreidler. And his service department is good. Well-schooled personnel! So, for more than 4 years now, I own a white V7 Stone. No problems (a broken screw from the rear suspension, a bit oil out of the rear drive). The bike simply runs! I could not be happier. Today I would buy a V7 III.
So the offer from Guzzi appealed to me, and what they achieve today with the small block (V7 III and V9) is hugely attractive to me.
By the way, I am 63 now.
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I think the Groms and 125’s have the best shot of bringing Millenials into motorcycling, like the smaller Honda’s din in the 60’s.