What does Guzzi need? Be realistic given economies on all fronts?

[Shorty]

Thanks Shorty, make me the bag man.

I'll shmoooze it for ya, the "new engine" debuting at EiCMA will solve all the issues.


Believe me.

It'll be YUGE!!

[Dharma Bum]

I think a retro styled V9 in SP livery would do it for me!

[ramarren]

I don't figure myself competent to understand what Moto Guzzi needs since I'm not really up on their business intent and such.

From my perspective, the V7III engine update is terrific and the V7III line of motorcycles is exactly what I expect from Moto Guzzi. A few more options in the V9 line with respect to a sportier version with more traditional Guzzi sporting good looks would help too.

I like simple, easy to maintain machines that make intelligent use of modern electronics and capabilities, and have useful real-world performance. I don't need 150 horsepower mega screamers of any kind, and I don't really need 900lb two-up touring boats either. That describes the V7III line extremely well; the Racer fits me perfectly and does everything I want. A V9 Racer LeMans with the same kind of power as my long lost LeMans 1000 mark V would be terrific too.

[ITSec]

We could at least have fun whilst sucking the treasury dry.   Hire Pete Roper as public relations spokesperson. Squatch is in charge of hiring and  the sexxyterries. Turnip is product testing. Dusty is union officer. Shorty will write all the snobby commercials. Tom is in charge of warehousing and shipping. Lannis and HD Goose handle complaint department. LowRyter will smooze the govt and handle bribery. Doug and Dave run the employee mess and wine cellar.  Luap will.live nearby in Monte Carlo and handle the asset management.  Damn Yankee will translate. Who have I missed?

Me.

I could represent the fact that Guzzis of the last decade have hit the perfect balance of sophistication and simplicity to allow routine riding of 30,000+ miles per year, while still being among the most enjoyable bikes to ride.

[kingoffleece]

Maybe it's not all the bikes-could it be the riders?  What I mean is the US motorcycle press are always touting the benefits and "betterness" of the latest and greatest bikes with the most HP and advanced electronics.  Gotta have 27 settings for everything.
Oh no.  You mean your aux lights won't signal the space station when you switch to high beam?  Are you NUTZ?!  You can't possibly ride an old bike that doesn't do THAT now, can you!  And it's on and on.  Like doing the 1/4 mile in 11.3 seconds is so much better than last years bike that did it in 11.9.  It's crazy talk.

Now, that's NOT to say anything about or against those who like that.  You get to do what you want with your money.  Point is the M/C mags push that type of agenda a lot.  Then, when they write about a Guzzi or similar (is there similar?) it's with a slant.  For better or worse or whatever.

I guess part of the point is who are they (Guzzi) building bikes for?  If it's for the head up competition with BMW and KTM and Ducati and so forth, as mentioned above, they are doomed IMO.  The press will always portray them as second fiddle.  That won't matter to us but it'll be a very heavy lift to get others to try a Guzzi in that scenario.

By no means a complete thought here.  Anybody else have a thought on this from a different angle?

[John Ulrich]

I used to think I knew, now I'm not so sure.

I'm with you there Chad.  Buyers are aging.  The younger generation thinks differently then we did.  Talk of a water cooled motor to pass future emissions will change things for sure.  Things sure appear to be stalled at the factory.   

[bacongrease]

 Hell, I don't know.

   On other boards, (guns, whatever) examples show up where folks stated "if Acme made the "D" model with X, Y & Z  I would buy one in a heartbeat."   The company produces that.     Result, dog sales?   
Sometimes a corporation does know better.

[oldbike54]

 About the moto press . Everyone complains about the journos , but almost every test of Moto Guzzis going back to the early 1970's I can remember gave good reviews . The testers usually started out mentioning the quirks , which sent Guzzisti into raging foaming at the mouth fits (OK , an exaggeration , but you get my point) before moving onto how much they enjoyed riding the bikes .
So maybe the press was never the issue , maybe motorcyclists being conservative (not the political type) sent them clamoring for bikes built in the hundreds of thousands , and not towards the products produced by that little motorbike builder on the lake . Most folks follow the herd fellas, even the supposed rugged individualist types who buy a certain American brand . Just how it is .

 Dusty

[Perazzimx14]

What Guzzi needs to do is invent a time machine to travel back about 50 years. Then do the opposite of what they did for the last 50 years.

They should also come up with some new catchy model names like the Molasses in January, Lead Balloon, The Slug, The Anvil.....and paint one of them like 1990's 1000S. That should do it. Or they should come up with an accessory faux external flywheel to bolt onto and V7 model to make it a bacon slicer.  It would be cool like the fake Harley kicker kits.

[JACoH]

I am happy with my v7 III completely. The one new feature that I think would benefit the entire line and be competitive is addition of a slipper clutch, which many bikes have now and not just sport bikes. Especially for those times when shifting down a bit early.

[TOMB]

Bikes with a reasonable seat to ground and seat to controls measurements .What I'm trying to say someone who is 5-8 can reach the ground like the original Eldo 1972 and and also have a reasonably comfortable reach to the controls I would have probably bought a good newer guzzi but the Dimensions from the seat to the controls to the handlebars to the ground do not work for me as a five foot eight person I may have bought other Guzzis  newer models than I had currently ride I am not in favor of the V series 7 etc whatever they're making today because it doesn't work for me although they're probably very good motorcycles
TOMB

[Kev m]

  Most folks follow the herd fellas, even the supposed rugged individualist types who buy a certain American brand . Just how it is .

 Dusty

Of course anyone following the herd would not ride in the first place.

[Kev m]

Bikes with a reasonable seat to ground and seat to controls measurements .What I'm trying to say someone who is 5-8 can reach the ground like the original Eldo 1972 and and also have a reasonably comfortable reach to the controls I would have probably bought a good newer guzzi but the Dimensions from the sea to the controls to the handlebars to the ground do not work for me as a five foot eight person I may have bought other Guzzis  newer models than I had currently ride I am not in favor of the V series 7 etc whatever they're making today because it doesn't work for me although they're probably very good motorcycles
TOMB

Wait, what doesn't work for you, surely not the dimensions right?

[ChuckH]

I'm in a different camp on this subject.  I believe you have to really WANT to own a Guzzi.  They are a small, niche market manufacturer serving a world-wide customer base.  I've never really seen accurate sales information but believe their annual production is in the 7 to 8K units/year, with only about 10% coming to the US and maybe Canada.  Those are small numbers.  As a result, some things become obvious.

First, unless you're really lucky, you're going to live some distance away from your closest dealer.  My dealer, Rose Farms, is 450 miles from where I live. 

Second, getting warranty and service work done by you dealer takes "special arrangements and planning".  I always tried to run past Rose Farms on the way to some other destination to get the necessary work done.

Third, you probably need to have some mechanical skills (or a buddy who works for beer) to take care of the normal maintenance and simple repairs to your bike.  That saves on the number of trips to the dealership.

Fourth, plan on getting your maintenance and repair parts via telephone and UPS.  Most dealers don't keep other than the basics in stock, so there may be a waiting time.  However, you can check multiple dealers for your parts.

Fifth, being a small company they certainly have a very small engineering staff so new designs are not thoroughly tested.  There will be some hiccups -- the big block 4V cam/cam follower situation comes to mind.  Also, being a small company, they may not react to product problems as quickly or as thoroughly as desired.  The fact that they are probably "cash strapped" doesn't help.

Now, after having said all this, my three years and 30K miles with the '12 Stelvio were wonderful.  If I hadn't gotten old and it became a bit heavy for me, I'd still be riding it.

That's my $0.02.  Ride safe.

[nbags]

more sales

[LowRyter]

yeah, so far as getting parts:  I ordered a new clutch for my Suzuki a week ago last Friday.  They should be at the shop next week.

I get my parts from Harpers, MG, MI, etc., and they are at my door in 3 or 4 days.

10-14 days vs 3 or 4 days.

[kenvil1]

Other manufacturers have been investing heavily in small displacement motorcycles to attract new riders; perhaps Moto Guzzi should be doing likewise. A 300cc single with a retro vibe could open up the marque to new generations who might later upgrade to the V7/9 and so forth.

[TOMB]

Kevin M my reference was to the Eldorado the new version if I sit on the seat and yes I can reach the ground I can't reach the forward controls nor if I put position myself to reach the forward controls I can't reach the handlebars and I'm too far forward on the seat people do not have a 40 inch inseam in most cases it seems like Guzzi should probably factor that in
TOMB

[Kev m]

Kevin M my reference was to the Eldorado the new version if I sit on the seat and yes I can reach the ground I can't reach the forward controls nor if I put position myself to reach the forward controls I can't reach the handlebars and I'm too far forward on the seat people do not have a 40 inch inseam in most cases it seems like Guzzi should probably factor that in
TOMB

Oh sorry, I was asking what about the V7 series doesn't work. My bad.

[Socalrob]

I'm in a different camp on this subject.  I believe you have to really WANT to own a Guzzi.  They are a small, niche market manufacturer serving a world-wide customer base.  I've never really seen accurate sales information but believe their annual production is in the 7 to 8K units/year, with only about 10% coming to the US and maybe Canada.  Those are small numbers.  As a result, some things become obvious.

First, unless you're really lucky, you're going to live some distance away from your closest dealer.  My dealer, Rose Farms, is 450 miles from where I live. 

Second, getting warranty and service work done by you dealer takes "special arrangements and planning".  I always tried to run past Rose Farms on the way to some other destination to get the necessary work done.

Third, you probably need to have some mechanical skills (or a buddy who works for beer) to take care of the normal maintenance and simple repairs to your bike.  That saves on the number of trips to the dealership.

Fourth, plan on getting your maintenance and repair parts via telephone and UPS.  Most dealers don't keep other than the basics in stock, so there may be a waiting time.  However, you can check multiple dealers for your parts.

Fifth, being a small company they certainly have a very small engineering staff so new designs are not thoroughly tested.  There will be some hiccups -- the big block 4V cam/cam follower situation comes to mind.  Also, being a small company, they may not react to product problems as quickly or as thoroughly as desired.  The fact that they are probably "cash strapped" doesn't help.

Now, after having said all this, my three years and 30K miles with the '12 Stelvio were wonderful.  If I hadn't gotten old and it became a bit heavy for me, I'd still be riding it.

That's my $0.02.  Ride safe.

Guess I am lucky.  Nearest dealer is 3 miles away.  Their primary line is Ducati, and I think MG fits well with the ducks.

Everybody needs to remember that for MG bringing out a whole new engine/model is a significant risk to the company.  The V7 series bikes are a safe bet, and it would not hurt if they made the V9's a bit more normal looking.

Truthfully, the main pulls of MG for me was the fit and finish, and the big gas tank on the v7.  It makes a great daily use bike.  If the scrambler was more dual sport with luggage, I might have bought that.

[Huzo]

They need a real sport bike to enhance their image. Some liquid-cooled heads and an additional twenty horsepower on a sexy Latin roadster would make their entire lineup look better...

Ummm...
Liquid cooled donk in the .......MGS???
Reckon as an alternative..
Don't build anymore new bikes. Just turn the current crop of young riders, into grumbly old farts!
There'll be a new factory pop up in Mandello to cope with the demand !

[oldbike54]

Of course anyone following the herd would not ride in the first place.

 In fact most motorbike owners ride very little . Isn't the average only about 2,000 miles a year , including all of us who actually put on some miles .

 Dusty

[Huzo]

Start researching an electric one!
Hopefully I'll be dead before it goes on sale, but it'll sell.
The old farts could put playing cards in the spokes...

[Ncdan]

In order:

1. Quality control
2. Product development
3. Marketing
4. Dealer network

A
Thing is they are FANTASTIC bikes, but they keep getting crippled by STUPID SHIT:

* Bad hydros
* Bad clutches
* Bad upper





 steering clamps
* Bad fuel lines
* Bad fuel filters
* Bad instrument clusters
* Bad 8v, valve trains

It's not the occasional failure, as much as the pattern ones that go for A LONG time, long after they should have fixed them, that bother me.

But some should NEVER have happened in the first place.

Totally agree with every aspect you listed

[Turin]

I think they need to be bought by Fiat/Chrysler. They seem to understand tradition and performance.

[jas67]

In order:

1. Quality control
2. Product development
3. Marketing
4. Dealer network


Thing is they are FANTASTIC bikes, but they keep getting crippled by STUPID SHIT:
.......

 :1:
Well said!

[kingoffleece]

Dusty,
To be clear I was not commenting on Guzzi reviews as such but the overall tone of most reviews in American magazines.
I've got to think that at least for some that the "newest and most HP' reviews help set the tone for a great many buyers.
Heck, on other forums one can read over and over the back and forth involving bench racing.

Guzzi makes a nice platform for real world riding as I've discovered.


Very interesting discussion.

[et18]

I think quality is always a concern with smaller brands but MG's #1 problem in the US has to be lack of brand recognition.  How do you know you want an MG if you've never heard of MG?  99% of the people that have come up and complimented my bike have never even heard of MG.  If I were part of the Piaggio US brass I would be wondering how to get product placement in movies and TV shows, maybe even in other brands commercials.  MG has to be a household name before it will land on the average buyer's short list.

[Kev m]

Dusty,
To be clear I was not commenting on Guzzi reviews as such but the overall tone of most reviews in American magazines.
I've got to think that at least for some that the "newest and most HP' reviews help set the tone for a great many buyers.
Heck, on other forums one can read over and over the back and forth involving bench racing.

Guzzi makes a nice platform for real world riding as I've discovered.


Very interesting discussion.

To be fair, not all moto journalists subscribe to the "bigger is better" mantra...

... And seemingly the public responds to it as well:

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/why-some-riders-are-downsizing-to-smaller-motorcycles

[jas67]

....Fourth, a small block true adventure bike. Not much compation in that segment.

Two immediately come to mind, both chain drive:
BMW F800GS
V-Strom

But, like the NTX650 and NTX750, a modern  Guzzi small block adventure bike would be shaft drive.
The R100GS still has a loyal following use still use them as ADV bikes.   A big reason is because there are no other shaft driven ADV bikes under 500#.   I've ridden both the F800GS and R1200GS off road.  The R1200GS is a heavy beast.    The F800GS is  good 80# lighter.    I much prefer the riding F800GS to the R1200GS, but, wish it was shaft drive.    If Guzzi built a NTX850 with the V9 motor, I'd seriously consider buying it.   They should be different than the other ADV bikes out there today, and NOT put a damned beak on it.   In fact, they could even make it retro and style it like the NTX650 and NTX750.