Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kristian on February 28, 2018, 07:28:05 PM
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Ladies, lads,
I am becoming increasingly disturbed over the prospect of Moto Guzzi embracing its recently semi – profitable path as retro bike maker, to the exclusion of new clean sheet designs in line with classic Moto Guzzi values. Am I the only one who is dying for a fresh, non-retro Le Mans, with a 1200cc, watercooled, 8V, weighing no more than 525 pounds full of fuel and set firmly toward the sport end of the sport touring spectrum? I understand the sport touring class is fallow, but, it is not dead. Kawasaki, for example, has a stellar new bike in the form of the H2 SX, with many others besides.
Kristian
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V85 and some of the 1400's aren't what I would consider retro. Neither are the CARC bikes, even if they are a little dated.
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I agree with you Kristian. I’d put my hard earned money on a Le Mans without blinking. With the direction of the new motorcycle industry at the present time, I don’t see them going back to that. It seems like they’re catering to the new generation of riders who Re willing to make the investment in a Bike. That means retro style smaller displacement bikes that appeal to the hipster crowd. I like most of their bikes, but being new to the Guzzi scene, I would have easily purchased a Le Mans.
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The other thing I hear people saying is that they’re trying to survive in the changing market place. I think Harley Davidson is facing that challenge today as well.
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No offense, but I have been a Guzzi owner only since late 1989 and even in that amount of time since I don't know how many times I have heard and read doom and gloom about Moto Guzzi and somehow they just keep putting out a limited number of bikes compared to most manufacturers like they always have. Maybe they know the secret sacrifice ritual to the motorcycle Gods that keep them in business.
GliderJohn
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Moto Guzzi - Going out of business since 1921 :thumb:
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Moto Guzzi - Going out of business since 1921 :thumb:
Moto Guzzi
Est. 1921
Going out of business since 1922
Dusty
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What's wrong with Retro? give me this with USD forks, a 6 speed and ABS..
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57b86d14e3df2876f53e1b62/57b8af87b3db2bfb2046a7d3/58080f443e00bec460439574/1509900966440/15_0625_Guzzi-1000S_024A.jpg?format=2500w)
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oh pshaw you picked the wrong site to dump on Moto Guzzis
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Look...it's simple...if you have the credit rating, support your local Guzzi dealer and buy a new bike...alternativel y, if you have some dough, buy a clean used Guzzi or a restoration project...if you are superrich, invest in Piaggio...
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What's wrong with Retro? give me this with USD forks, a 6 speed and ABS..
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57b86d14e3df2876f53e1b62/57b8af87b3db2bfb2046a7d3/58080f443e00bec460439574/1509900966440/15_0625_Guzzi-1000S_024A.jpg?format=2500w)
:1:
A new sport would be fantastic.
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(http://thumb.ibb.co/nsZTQx/004.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nsZTQx)
We don't need no steenking RETRO!
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No offense, but I have been a Guzzi owner only since late 1989 and even in that amount of time since I don't know how many times I have heard and read doom and gloom about Moto Guzzi and somehow they just keep putting out a limited number of bikes compared to most manufacturers like they always have. Maybe they know the secret sacrifice ritual to the motorcycle Gods that keep them in business.
GliderJohn
That just might be their little secret to surviving almost a hundred years, running a lean operation and producing just enough.
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I overheard Piaggio head of product development for North America say that a redesigned Griso was in the works while he was answering questions with Galluzzi at the One Moto show in Portland last month.
Like Deniro says � I heard things�
(http://thumb.ibb.co/iB5uhc/402_B60_DB_AE3_D_4892_9_C44_8_D8_E24_D960_BB.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iB5uhc)
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For sure, a sport touring machine. A new LeMans or Sport with touring capability. Classic looks. Candy Apple Green and red frame.
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V85 and some of the 1400's aren't what I would consider retro. Neither are the CARC bikes, even if they are a little dated.
Well, the V85 isn't real, and the CARC bikes are gone, dead. The only make 1400 cruisers and V7IIIs now.
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What's wrong with Retro? give me this with USD forks, a 6 speed and ABS..
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57b86d14e3df2876f53e1b62/57b8af87b3db2bfb2046a7d3/58080f443e00bec460439574/1509900966440/15_0625_Guzzi-1000S_024A.jpg?format=2500w)
Glorious, the world's first retro, too.
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Look...it's simple...if you have the credit rating, support your local Guzzi dealer and buy a new bike...alternativel y, if you have some dough, buy a clean used Guzzi or a restoration project...if you are superrich, invest in Piaggio...
I don't understand your point as it relates to my original statement-
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It is that simple: people who buy new Guzzis now (like myself in 2013) do this because they want a bike that looks like a Guzzi, sounds like a Guzzi, is not too expensive and easy and fun to run. A bigger, more expensive sport bike will at once be compared with more modern, faster and stronger bikes. And if Guzzi itself would make a more modern, faster and stronger bike the old customers would say: That´s not a Guzzi anymore. Hence the success of the V7 series. And let´s see what they will do with the V85 - platform.
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I overheard Piaggio head of product development for North America say that a redesigned Griso was in the works
Oh, yes, pretty please with sugar on top...
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What's wrong with Retro? give me this with USD forks, a 6 speed and ABS..
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57b86d14e3df2876f53e1b62/57b8af87b3db2bfb2046a7d3/58080f443e00bec460439574/1509900966440/15_0625_Guzzi-1000S_024A.jpg?format=2500w)
:1: :drool:
OMG, yes, I'd buy one!
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Yeah, the 1000S was a big seller, wasn't it?
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Yeah, the 1000S was a big seller, wasn't it?
I think that the list price back then was somewhere over $10K, which is about $50K in the Guzzi world.
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I think that the list price back then was somewhere over $10K, which is about $50K in the Guzzi world.
DING DING DING ! We have a winner . The mothership spends a metric boatload of money to develop a modern high performance motorbike , everyone drools over it in the dealership , 5 are purchased new at something close to retail , the other 995 sit in showroom floors until the price is dropped $3K or more . Kinda hard to make money that way .
Dusty
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Along with that beautiful 1000S, here is another timeless Guzzi classic... :thumb: :1: :cool:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hSNDSc/Screen_Shot_2018_03_01_at_6_23_24_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/hSNDSc)
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I'm all about retro too. But, I'm coherent enough to know that if Moto Guzzi doesn't build something that will appeal to the 20 and 30 somethings, they'll be doomed. Lack of marketing, dealers and young riders is what bothers me the most.
But, I'll keep plugging along on my old 2017 MGX and not worry "too" much about it :thumb:
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Yeah, the 1000S was a big seller, wasn't it?
:grin: "What's that do that my T3 won't do?" <snapping suspenders>
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If the Griso had ABS from the factory, I would be all over it.
I think the main issue with Moto Guzzi is that they hardly do any advertising. Most people have no idea what a Moto Guzzi is. Honestly, I think the V7 is the bike for the "millennial generation" - it's decently built, versatile, has ABS/TC, looks great, is low maintenance, and is relatively inexpensive.
While I generally hate logos, I wouldn't mind doing a bit of free advertising for Guzzi, but I rarely find any Guzzi-branded clothes. Heck, I wanted a Moto Guzzi riding jacket but the only place I could find them was ebay - and the goods were sketchy at best. Though the whole "lifestyle marketing" unpleasantly reeks from Harley and Ducati Scramblers, it seems to have worked well. Baring a Griso upgrade, I think the Guzzi lineup is sufficient, but their marketing is just inadequate.
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:grin: "What's that do that my T3 won't do?" <snapping suspenders>
? Look sexier than most Italian actresses ?
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Sport touring is not an easy category to be in....small volumes and high requirements.
On the other hand, it's easy to believe V85 will develop into something - those ADV/multipurpose bikes are perfect for middle-aged geezers like myself, no need to worry about bending my back, trying to get blood circulate at wrists and worriying about too tight knee angle....just sit on and enjoy.
At the same time, they are quite good to ride on absolute terms too = there's a fit for younger riders too.
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QUOTE: ...those ADV/multipurpose bikes are perfect for middle-aged geezers like myself
Summed up in one comment: "Morphing into full-blown GeezerDom..." :laugh: :grin: :wink: :cool:
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Sport touring will always be around...if only for the travelers who don't get into the really heavy touring bikes. In time, the ADV and the Retro thing will become pass� and some other interpretation of moto-joy will emerge...
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MG has obviously been run very carefully by smart Piaggio managers and bean counters over the last 13 years, as careful, inexpensive development and niche targeting has created a popular bike for beginners (and hipsters), the V7 series, and the Cali series for cruiser folk. V7s are very good looking retro bikes, but, they are beginner's bikes, as created by MG. Me, no way my 6'1"+ self will own one of these tiny 50-HP machines. A fella needs passing power!
Nor am I into 750+ LB. cruisers, I have zero use for them. But, again, the Calis and offspring are beautifully designed, engineered, and built bikes; just not for me.
The Griso was truly inspired and certainly competitive with others, as are the current V7s and Cali ranges, proving MG certainly knows how to build bikes competitive in today's market.
MG was not a budget brand, nor is it now; comments to that effect are in error. MG is, in fact, a premium brand, as the quality of the current bikes evidence; Piaggio would bristly strongly at MG being thought of as a budget maker of weird bikes for oddballs, as model ranges over the last ten years prove. The build quality of Guzzis over the last many years has been terrific, better than most, especially the likes of BMW. And, original Eldos, Ambassadors, V7s, Le Manses, were not cheap budget bikes, and did several important things better than most other brands; and some worse.
Thus, it will take little for the a revamped mill for a new Griso--hopefully watercooled--to become the basis for a proper Le Mans. The only reason it hasn't happened yet is that Piaggio--again--is running MG carefully, with en eye on the bottom line.
Finally, the only reason CARC MGs (Griso, Stelvio) have been subject to discounts over the last years is their age and general uncompetitiveness; Piaggio/MG left them on the counter too long.
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V7s are very good looking retro bikes, but, they are beginner's bikes,
Gee, I sure hope I grow out of my beginner phase of riding soon... Maybe year 37 will be the year I get to graduate to "intermediate rider", as voted by the wise council of the interwebz.
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What's wrong with Retro? give me this with USD forks, a 6 speed and ABS..
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57b86d14e3df2876f53e1b62/57b8af87b3db2bfb2046a7d3/58080f443e00bec460439574/1509900966440/15_0625_Guzzi-1000S_024A.jpg?format=2500w)
Just give that bike as is. I test road it new a big valve in 92 or 93 and the ergos killed. I should have thought ahead and moved the foot controls forward and give my 36" inseam a place to go. I'd change the bars and that would be it. This is my all time #1 fav Guzzi. I believe it's linked so who need abs?
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...I guess the days of the small shops with limited floor space are gone? I remember visiting Speaker's Cycle years ago...drooling over a black Breva 1100. (he also had that silver Norge/Breva convert back then :grin:) It was always great to stop over there and shoot the breeze with Jason and Dan. At that time the smaller shop wasn't pressured into a full model floorplan, if I understand correctly.
I want the small shops back into the fold! Riders like it when their shops are near...not how big they are.
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Gee, I sure hope I grow out of my beginner phase of riding soon... Maybe year 37 will be the year I get to graduate to "intermediate rider", as voted by the wise council of the interwebz.
Experienced riders owning V7s (as many do) has little to do with the fact that MG designed and positioned the V7 as MG's entry-level bike. IOW, it's a bike friendly to beginning riders due to its low ride height, power, and price, and it is universally known as such.
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Gee, I sure hope I grow out of my beginner phase of riding soon... Maybe year 37 will be the year I get to graduate to "intermediate rider", as voted by the wise council of the interwebz.
Hmm
Experienced riders owning V7s (as many do) has little to do with the fact that MG designed and positioned the V7 as MG's entry-level bike. IOW, it's a bike friendly to beginning riders due to its low ride height, power, and price, and it is universally known as such.
I think you are off base with that assumption . The V7 is appealing to some beginning riders , but we have several fellas and ladies with hundreds of thousands of miles that are riding Small Blocks because they work . "Universally known as such" , well , not among the fans of Small Blocks .
Dusty
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Perhaps "Slightly dated" is the new "Retro"? :evil:
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I think you are off base with that assumption . The V7 is appealing to some beginning riders , but we have several fellas and ladies with hundreds of thousands of miles that are riding Small Blocks because they work . "Universally known as such" , well , not among the fans of Small Blocks .
Google "Guzzi V7 beginner's bike" or "Guzzi V7 entry-level"...
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Google "Guzzi V7 beginner's bike" or "Guzzi V7 entry-level"...
No argument about whatever the internet says , but since WG is representative of a large cross section of Guzzi owners , maybe we are more of an authority on the subject than the net . Like I said, we have many hi-miler members who have chosen to ride small blocks . In fact , the intrepid Beaver likely has more miles than 90% of all motorcyclists , and she rides a V7 , as does Smithswede . That guy rides almost everyday , rain , sleet , cold , hot , often traveling 400 miles a day for work reasons in all kinds of weather . No doubt they make a decent entry level motorbike , but they punch way above their weight .
Dusty
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Google "vaccines cause autism", and "the ruling class are lizard people"...
An internet search supporting your viewpoint, doesn't make it fact.
The V7 is a solid classicly styled touring motorcycle, it's low centre of gravity and ease of riding don't make it a beginner bike, they make it a well-designed, capable motorcycle.
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No doubt they make a decent entry level motorbike , but they punch way above their weight .
I agree--and said as much. They're great bikes.
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Google "vaccines cause autism", and "the ruling class are lizard people"...
An internet search supporting your viewpoint, doesn't make it fact.
The V7 is a solid classicly styled touring motorcycle, it's low centre of gravity and ease of riding don't make it a beginner bike, they make it a well-designed, capable motorcycle.
Good grief already. Please read my posts...
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yep. Small bikes. Just last night I learned that a 250 finished the 2017 IBA Rally. Imagine THAT.
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From Moto Guzzi itself: "Since its introduction, the V7 became a pillar of the Moto Guzzi product range. An entry-level bike that is dedicated to both men and women, the V7 became the company’s best seller in 2009."
Hope that settles it.
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As a 79 year old, who began riding in 1955, I don't consider myself a beginner. My age excludes me from the "Millennial" category. I ride a V7 because I like it! Does everything that I want a road bike to do and does it well.
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"the ruling class are lizard people”
I always knew that. :afro:
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Since you seem to be familiar with Piaggio's online presence, why not express your concerns to them directly?
They make the product, we don't...
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If the Griso had ABS from the factory, I would be all over it.
I think on a new model ABS would be required? To comply with regulations, that is.
Or is that still some time into the future?
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something like half of Guzzi's sales are V7's of one flavor or another. Like Triumph tho they felt to compete in the American market they would also need cruisers and adventure bikes. If the number of 2 and 3 year old new Triumph and Guzzi cruisers and adventure bikes sitting on dealer floors are any indication, they might have misjudged that. V7's sell because they are solid bikes with a unique set of features at what passes as a reasonable price-point these days. They'd do well to take note of that. Piaggio already has a sporting brand. They really don't need to spend a ton of development money to produce another which will sell in small numbers. What they need to do is turn out a large block version of the classic roadster platform, something that likely would have broad appeal and cost them little to do. Companies tend to fail when they do what they want instead of what the market wants them to do.
V7's are not starter bikes any more than all retro's are purchased by older riders. What they are is a reaction to the excess of the motorcycle market over the last 10 or 20 years and a desire to get back to basics. Triumph took the better part of 15 years to figure that out before reinvesting in the parallel twin line, fortunately Guzzi seems to be a quicker study how that they are at generation iii with the 7's and that is a good sign in my opinion.
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I would like to find out if the still have all the castings and stamping plates, molds from all the older stuff from way back. They were supposedly one of the only factories that had all that from the beginning. Hopefully Piaggio didn't scrap it for more room at the old factory.
If so, they could produce some pretty cool bikes. SO when we get that big sunburst they could produce dizzy & carb bikes.
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I get Kristians point. But "beginner" is just a marketing label. I'm 60, been riding for 47 years, and feel no issue at all with riding my V7 500 plus miles a day while my Norge sits home.
My friend rides his 856 Scrambler from AL to VT every year to ride with us. Truth be told, when we move out west the G310R, Jackal, and V7 will go with us. Norge stays behind. One of you youths will get a very well sorted sport tourer!
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A bigger, more expensive sport bike will at once be compared with more modern, faster and stronger bikes. And if Guzzi itself would make a more modern, faster and stronger bike the old customers would say: That�s not a Guzzi anymore. Hence the success of the V7 series. And let�s see what they will do with the V85 - platform.
Very astute IMO.
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What's wrong with Retro? give me this with USD forks, a 6 speed and ABS..
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57b86d14e3df2876f53e1b62/57b8af87b3db2bfb2046a7d3/58080f443e00bec460439574/1509900966440/15_0625_Guzzi-1000S_024A.jpg?format=2500w)
That not retro. That's real. :cool:
Beautiful motorcycle!
The V7III Racer I bought in October is my modern bike and a perfect sport/sport-tourer for me. A few minor enhancements (tubeless wheels, better front suspension, etc), keep it light and simple, and it's all I want.
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I personally do not care if anyone considers the V7 to be a so-called beginners bike. I bought mine, and totally love it, based on its actual features. Which to my knowledge are unique in our market today
I wanted something seriously light weight. As large a gas tank as possible. A simple, air-cooled engine. Had to handle well, with plenty of ground clearance. Shaft drive. Standard bike ergonomics. A simple, durable, well tested design. Straightforward to maintain. Capable of easily running 85 mph all day. Able to mount hard saddlebags. Finally, I wanted something that had a bit of character. Not mechanically boring. Not a scooter. And it would be a huge plus if the bike looked good and was not covered by plastic fairings and gee games.
I did not care about maximizing horsepower. I did not care about ABS. I did not want double disk brakes. Did not need two-up capability.
I basically wanted to buy a brand new bike that was functionally similar to a BMW airhead like my old R80/7. And then I planned to ride the heck out of it.
Of course, my Kawasaki Ninja 250 also meets most of these requirements as well, and I will absolutely ride the little two-fiddy anywhere. So maybe I am just crazy.
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I personally do not care if anyone considers the V7 to be a so-called beginners bike. I bought mine, and totally love it, based on its actual features. Which to my knowledge are unique in our market today
I wanted something seriously light weight. As large a gas tank as possible. A simple, air-cooled engine. Had to handle well, with plenty of ground clearance. Shaft drive. Standard bike ergonomics. A simple, durable, well tested design. Straightforward to maintain. Capable of easily running 85 mph all day. Able to mount hard saddlebags. Finally, I wanted something that had a bit of character. Not mechanically boring. Not a scooter. And it would be a huge plus if the bike looked good and was not covered by plastic fairings and gee games.
I did not care about maximizing horsepower. I did not care about ABS. I did not want double disk brakes. Did not need two-up capability.
I basically wanted to buy a brand new bike that was functionally similar to a BMW airhead like my old R80/7. And then I planned to ride the heck out of it.
Of course, my Kawasaki Ninja 250 also meets most of these requirements as well, and I will absolutely ride the little two-fiddy anywhere. So maybe I am just crazy.
No, you are not. These are exactly the reasons why I bought my Stone in 2013. The only contender (and the bike I was sure I would buy - until the V7 "I" arrived) was the Harley Davidson Sportster Roadster 883.
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It is that simple: people who buy new Guzzis now (like myself in 2013) do this because they want a bike that looks like a Guzzi, sounds like a Guzzi, is not too expensive and easy and fun to run. A bigger, more expensive sport bike will at once be compared with more modern, faster and stronger bikes. And if Guzzi itself would make a more modern, faster and stronger bike the old customers would say: That�s not a Guzzi anymore. Hence the success of the V7 series. And let�s see what they will do with the V85 - platform.
+1
Yesterday I signed off on a new V7III Special. It checked ALL of the right boxes for me.
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something like half of Guzzi's sales are V7's of one flavor or another. Like Triumph tho they felt to compete in the American market they would also need cruisers and adventure bikes. If the number of 2 and 3 year old new Triumph and Guzzi cruisers and adventure bikes sitting on dealer floors are any indication, they might have misjudged that. V7's sell because they are solid bikes with a unique set of features at what passes as a reasonabl
V7's are not starter bikes any more than all retro's are purchased by older riders. What they are is a reaction to the excess of the motorcycle market over the last 10 or 20 years and a desire to get back to basics. Triumph took the better part of 15 years to figure that out before reinvesting in the parallel twin line, fortunately Guzzi seems to be a quicker study how that they are at generation iii with the 7's and that is a good sign in my opinion.
Well said!
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I must admit that I enjoy riding a motorcycle that is different. The other day I made a Costco run on the Baby Breva as we had a rare 50 plus February day up here in Canuckistan. While stowing my purchases had an elderly (much more than my 63 years) gentleman approach and complimented me on the bike. Said he rode motorcycles back in his youth. Rode home thoroughly enjoying the mid winter ride and had a guy out walking his dog follow me into my garage. He new the bike was different from the sound but wanted to see what it was. All this commotion over a $3000 10 year old bike. My buddy doesn't get that much attention paid to his $45000 HD Screaming Eagle Guizzer Glide.
I love the bike for what it is, a nimble lightweight sport bike. Its not fast by any stretch but it is just different.
The only drawback is dealer support. Guzzi will never be mainstream until they establish a reliable dealer network. It is a "Catch 22" situation. People aren't buying them because the nearest dealer is a100 miles away but dealers won't pick the brand up because they aren't popular. It is a mixed blessing as I would like better dealer access but then again I don't want to see a Guzzi parked on every corner.
Cheers, Tim
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This thread suffers from fatal thread drift!
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This thread suffers from fatal thread drift!
As do most conversations.
I kinda like that.
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Beginer bike and entry-level, do not mean the same thing.
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This thread suffers from fatal thread drift!
"THREAD DRIFT!!!" :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :huh: :huh:
Moto Guzzi's target marketing / new product future better include: women, minorities, millennial's, and young people in general...or they will face extinction issues!
As nature has proven........."Adaptability is the key to survival..."
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Beginer bike and entry-level, do not mean the same thing.
My thoughts exactly.
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They can do all the marketing they want to whatever target group may be out there, but buyers, especially first time buyers will not travel 100's of miles to look at a bike. Get some dealers in place and the sales will come. They don't have to be mega dealers, just a place where people can get parts and service and after purchase support.
Cheers, Tim
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This thread suffers from fatal thread drift!
YOU have the ability to delete it entirely...
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As a relative noob to Wildguzzi... "thread drift" is ridiculous here. I've yet to see a thread stay anywhere near on topic.
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Beginer bike and entry-level, do not mean the same thing.
All major manufacturers' entry-level bikes are excellent beginner's bikes, and vice-versa. The fact that the new V7s are known, excellent, beginner's bikes and MG's entry-level doesn't mean experienced riders can't appreciate it; the opposite is just plain silly.
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As a relative noob to Wildguzzi... "thread drift" is ridiculous here. I've yet to see a thread stay anywhere near on topic.
That's not true , and even if it is ( :rolleyes:) these threads about what car to buy are always interesting :huh:
Dusty
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I think I understand where you are coming from Kristan. And the v7 stone, might be a beginer bike for adults with plenty of cash on hand, or a real desire to start on something really exotic and unique. But your average new rider is not likely going to put down 8-10 thousand dollars for a starter bike, right?
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I just bought my first Moto Guzzi about 6 weeks ago. 56 years old, owned over 50 motorcycles, so not the millennial or beginner "target" .
For me, I have known about Moto Guzzis since the late 70's probably. But I was young and buying a Honda 750F or V65 Sabre or Interceptor ... then on to CBR-RR, and R6/R1. Had some Ducatis along the way. And KTMs. And a couple of BMWs.
If it wasn't for the V7 line up, I wouldn't have bought an MG.
(not sure if these next statements will get me banned from the forum... :smiley: ) Never liked the cruiser style bikes. Not into the touring or ADV bikes MG made. Although, pictures of the 1400 California in white seem nice. In person the bike just seemed too big to me. The Grizzo models seemed kind of cool, but not to a point for me to buy one ... they seemed to say to heck with the heritage thing (good and bad there). On the V11, sorry, but that rear end just looks too Suzuki Hayabusa to me ... but have been tempted by these. The V9 models, hum, kind of cruiser, kind of not, zero interest in these.
Then the V7 bikes. Wow. The Stornello, awesome! The Racer, gorgeous (and oh, the Ohlins rear shocks!). The blue Special, wow, classic, beautiful. The Anniversario, while too much chrome for me, also a fantastic looking bike.
V7 pricing, very reasonable. And it feels like a perfect blend of a new old school bike. Like I'm getting an older, classic Moto Guzzi, but wait, it is brand new!
I ended up with a V7 iii Racer and love it.
I was wondering if I needed to buy an open face helmet, lace up boots, skinny jeans and roll up the bottom 4 inches, flannel shirt, and grow some sort of unique facial hair. But I don't live in Portland or Seattle, so I think I'm ok. :laugh:
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As for Moto Guzzi's future ... I wonder what they want and what Piaggio wants.
If I was running things :smiley:, I would see what is the realistic capacity of my factory ... how many bikes could I make a year. Compare that to how many I am making and selling. I would not want to grow to the point of needing a new facility or invest in expensive expansion.
The investment needed to make a bike faster/lighter/better than a Ducati/Aprilia/Japanese sport bike just seems like a crazy plan. Would need a TON of money and even if you did it, if you equaled a Ducati supersport, would that potential buyer get the MG? Or still go with a Ducati? (I think Ducati)
I would keep the V7 line as low priced as possible. Focus on the Stone and models very close to that.
I would take the racer/special/scrambler style to the V9 lineup. Figure out how to get about 4.5" of rear wheel travel vs. ~3.5" of rear wheel travel! There would be higher price point than the V7's, and be a bit more upscale. Maybe have a speciale model, like a basic V9 Racer ("normal" rear shocks and forks) and a Seciale V9 Racer model (Ohlins rear, higher spec'ed forks, maybe twin rotor front, etc).
I'd have a 1200cc line of classics, again higher price point. LeMans replica! A CX100 "basic" model. Maybe an SP1000 replica ... or make an SP kit you could buy and put on a CX.
So the old guys could take their pick ... V7, V9, or V12.
New riders could afford and be tempted by the basic V7.
Old guys would buy every V12 we could make.
Seems like this could get it to where you are selling everything you could make in a year.
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Please define:
Beginner bike
Entry level bike
I'm not sure what you mean by each of these terms.
By the standards of the day when I leaned to ride, a 750cc machine with 50hp was considered a very large and powerful bike for beginners to handle. Didn't stop me but I found I liked a Honda 400 four more, for a while anyway.
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I love the 750�s . The Ippogrifo originally drew me to Guzzi and I was disappointed when it fell through the cracks. I almost bought a Monster 750 but decided to get a Jackal and trim it to suit my tastes. Glad I did, while it�s a little heavier than I wanted it has everything I need and is a joy to ride and travel with.
I was really set on a Stornello but will hold off to see what the V85 offers. Older I get the more I enjoy the lighter bikes.
Anyone interested in a low mile Norge? :cheesy:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gmiaSn/0_FA3_F4_CC_FC5_C_454_E_B15_A_4266_B62320_D2.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gmiaSn)
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IMO, Piaggio is making a conscious decision to turn their sport/sport touring and advanced tech towards Aprilia, and will focus Guzzi on the classic retro direction. Triumph is a perfect example of where this COULD go, but the V7 and 9 are VERY underwhelming on every level in my opinion. I really like the California, but it is a huge full size touring oriented bike. Guzzi needs to do what Triumph has, virtually reinvent and improve their entire line. It seems to me Piaggio ownership has dulled and muted both Aprilia and Guzzi..... not a good thing in the increasingly competitive and shrinking motorcycle market.
I would have loved to see an evolution of the CARC structure, and taken to the next level. The Gris Formula was right on for a sport standard, and can be so much more. I love my 4V GRiSO and 8V Norge, and they will likely be the last bikes I will buy unless the wife gives the OK to eventually move from the Norge to a Full Dressed California.
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I've never thought I needed "more" from my V7. If it had that it would be something else.
Having a bike with "just enough" completely transforms the riding experience-at least for me. Funny thing is that everywhere except an endless straight the V7 seems to pace with almost all the bigger bikes. But I'm sure it's in least in part where the rider lives and the amount of twists and turns.
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IMO, Piaggio is making a conscious decision to turn their sport/sport touring and advanced tech towards Aprilia, and will focus Guzzi on the classic retro direction. Triumph is a perfect example of where this COULD go, but the V7 and 9 are VERY underwhelming on every level in my opinion. I really like the California, but it is a huge full size touring oriented bike. Guzzi needs to do what Triumph has, virtually reinvent and improve their entire line. It seems to me Piaggio ownership has dulled and muted both Aprilia and Guzzi..... not a good thing in the increasingly competitive and shrinking motorcycle market.
Agree 100%, though I quite like V7s. But, just look at what Triumph has done with the Thruxton R; a stunner in every way. Guzzi could easily do the same; a water-cooled Le Mans 1200 with styling borrowing heavily from the 850 Le Mans, but fully modernized like the Trumpet. I'd pay anything for that.
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All major manufacturers' entry-level bikes are excellent beginner's bikes, and vice-versa. The fact that the new V7s are known, excellent, beginner's bikes and MG's entry-level doesn't mean experienced riders can't appreciate it; the opposite is just plain silly.
When I first joined WG in 2004 the site at the time had a split in to a big block and a small block section. Big block owners used to diss small block owners big time. Over a period of time, starting with the introduction of the 750 Breva, guys started buying small blocks for their better halves to ride. They started borrowing them for a quick scoot down to the shops etc, and found that they are a very nice bike to ride and although not what you would call powerful, they are an absolute hoot in the tight twisties.
As a beginners bike, with no power band to speak of they are very easy to learn to ride. Once experience is gained they are still a most enjoyable ride, entry level or not.
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The V7 is a great bike for crowded urban riding, for most of Europe they are probably an ideal bike, and the low horsepower keeps insurance affordable. I've always thought that Guzzi focuses on their European market first, but I could be wrong.
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Some news...
https://www.dueruote.it/notizie/attualita/vespa-elettrica-e-ibrida-l-arrivo-a-ottobre (https://www.dueruote.it/notizie/attualita/vespa-elettrica-e-ibrida-l-arrivo-a-ottobre)
Moto Guzzi, the 2018 news
Finally, as far as the bikes are concerned, Colaninno explained that the new Moto Guzzi V85 will be ready for September and two more versions of the V7 family will arrive by the end of the year. The group is also working on a new Moto Guzzi 1100.
Also noticed on Facebook dealers got to go to Italy and talk to Piaggio people in a meeting.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/etmwHn/V85_News.jpg) (http://ibb.co/etmwHn)
So the article talked about an 1100, and the dealer mentioned a new engine in a racer and "one other model."
Heard rumor hear of a new Griso. Maybe the new Griso will have an 1100 version of the V85 "80 hp" engine coming?
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I've never thought I needed "more" from my V7. If it had that it would be something else.
Having a bike with "just enough" completely transforms the riding experience-at least for me. Funny thing is that everywhere except an endless straight the V7 seems to pace with almost all the bigger bikes. But I'm sure it's in least in part where the rider lives and the amount of twists and turns.
:1:
So far my V7 is the most fun bike I've owned ( Honda Nighthawk, Kawi 750 ZR7S, Triumph 955i Sprint ST, Triumph 1050 ABS Sprint ST). I have absolutely no regrets about going Guzzi V7.
Gerry
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https://www.dueruote.it/notizie/attualita/vespa-elettrica-e-ibrida-l-arrivo-a-ottobre
Interesting that the Vespa Elettrica and the hybrid model (electric and thermal) will be presented to the market in October. Just a few weeks after Harley-Davidson finally confirmed that it plans on bringing its first electric motorcycle to market next year. Just a few days ago H-D announced an investment in Alta Motors to accelerate its electrification effort. Alta Motors, formerly known as BRD Motorcycles, is a small electric motorcycle startup based in Silicon Valley and backed financially by Tesla co-founders Marc Tarpenning and Martin Eberhard. For me, electric bikes are not something I'd buy at this time, however, if they bring new riders into the motorcycle community that would be a good thing.
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Gerry, we think alike. And our bikes have been Hamlinized. WE know how great they run, don't we.
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Gerry, we think alike. And our bikes have been Hamlinized. WE know how great they run, don't we.
Yes, Yes we do. :thumb:
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Can it be that some of the people who constantly mourn the weak power output of the V7 have never ridden one?
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assume that new 1100 would be the sport model we want?
I know a guy that went there last week, I'll see what he can tell me about it.
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Can it be that some of the people who constantly mourn the weak power output of the V7 have never ridden one?
I've ridden several and while I know many, many WG members tour two up on V7's, I wouldn't. Since I do a lot of riding with a passenger I would not buy a V7 if it was my only motorcycle. I'm seriously considering buying a blue Special this summer though to go along with my Touring, however.
I'm not doom and gloom about Guzzi. The V7 is a unique bike in the market. It's a little jewel of a motorcycle that appeals to hipsters, new riders, experienced riders, older riders and women. I've seen every conceivable type of motorcyclist(except serious sport riders) on them and they're used for every type of riding. They mechanically simple and robust yet they have a full suite of modern electronics and ABS. Guzzi should make them forever.
The Cali 1400 is a high tech cruiser that handles well, is a flat out bargain second hand and looks great. I enjoy mine a lot.
The V85 seems destined to become a high end V-Strom 650. Guzzi has to make sure there are no mechanical foibles with the V85 but it could end up becoming what the BMW R80GS SHOULD have evolved into rather than the bloated, behemoth R1200GS. I can't see how they can possibly meet the HP claims or wet weight that are being thrown around so all the die hard Guzzisti are going to bitch. It could still be great and I'll be happy if I'm wrong. I'd buy one if it was close to what's being claimed.
I think Guzzi missed the mark with the V9. It seemed aimed at the Sportster crowd. It has odd sized tires and IMHO, the tank is just too damned ugly(que every V9 owner on the board telling me I'm off the mark). If they'd made the thing decent looking it just would have stolen sales from the V7 so I understand Guzzi's approach in making it different in an attempt to increase sales but it's a miss. I'd guess a dozen V7's are sold for every V9.
Guzzi will never build a modern sportbike. Those that clamor for one simply do not understand the capabilities of modern bikes. What Guzzi could do is build a large displacement sporty motorcycle with standard-ish ergos that appeals to older(middle-aged) riders. It would need enough performance and style to differentiate itself from the V7 in a major way. It shouldn't be a bike that would steal sales from the V7. Sure, a new Le Mans would be great but the Griso 1200, in many ways, was the spiritual successor to the 1000S. I think it's going to be spoken of in the same terms as the 1000S in 10-15 years. The Yamaha XSR900 and Kawasaki Z900RS are both big hits. Guzzi has always embraced their past while building unique, gentlemen expresses. A 1000S type machine is about the only bike missing in their lineup. Like the CARC bikes, it could be used as a platform for a sport tourer and sport-standard.
With that addition the Guzzi lineup would be as broad as it's been in 50 years. I think Guzzi is headed in exactly the direction it should be and poised for success in the coming decade. Guzzi has to define success differently than other manufacturers since it will never be a mainstream brand but nevertheless, the future looks bright.
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The V7 is a great bike for crowded urban riding, for most of Europe they are probably an ideal bike, and the low horsepower keeps insurance affordable.
Well, speaking as a rider in the great, empty highway expanses of western Canada, I gotta say, it does that pretty damn well, too. Both my wife and I ride V7s... they'll eat up long days and hundreds of kms in comfort and class.
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Some news...
https://www.dueruote.it/notizie/attualita/vespa-elettrica-e-ibrida-l-arrivo-a-ottobre (https://www.dueruote.it/notizie/attualita/vespa-elettrica-e-ibrida-l-arrivo-a-ottobre)
Moto Guzzi, the 2018 news
Finally, as far as the bikes are concerned, Colaninno explained that the new Moto Guzzi V85 will be ready for September and two more versions of the V7 family will arrive by the end of the year. The group is also working on a new Moto Guzzi 1100.
Also noticed on Facebook dealers got to go to Italy and talk to Piaggio people in a meeting.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/etmwHn/V85_News.jpg) (http://ibb.co/etmwHn)
So the article talked about an 1100, and the dealer mentioned a new engine in a racer and "one other model."
Heard rumor hear of a new Griso. Maybe the new Griso will have an 1100 version of the V85 "80 hp" engine coming?
The V85 is a "two valve motor??"
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I think Guzzi missed the mark with the V9. It seemed aimed at the Sportster crowd. It has odd sized tires and IMHO, the tank is just too damned ugly(que every V9 owner on the board telling me I'm off the mark). If they'd made the thing decent looking it just would have stolen sales from the V7 so I understand Guzzi's approach in making it different in an attempt to increase sales but it's a miss.
Agreed. That is pretty much what I said about it when I demoed one at the Oregon nationals. It *could* be a nice handling bike, but the ergos are just all wrong. I couldn't touch the tank with my knees, much less get a grip, and the riding position puts weight aft.. not where you want it in the twisties. Feet forward? :rolleyes: Other than the *very nice* drivetrain, it wasn't very Guzzi like.
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That's pretty much my impression after trying a Roamer. They have since moved the pegs back several inches on both models that I think would go fair way to making better ergonomics.
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The V85 is a "two valve motor??"
I asked the dealer for a follow up on that, haven't heard back.
My guess is they were mistaken, only looking at the V9 / old engine in the prototype...
Maybe it's 80 seahorse power or something. ;)
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"Maybe it's 80 seahorse power or something. ;)"
Well, if it has the power of an old Johnson SeaHorse....
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"Maybe it's 80 seahorse power or something. ;)"
Well, if it has the power of an old Johnson SeaHorse....
:grin:
I'm happy with the power of a Breva 750, anything on top is gravy.
What would be nicer is the idea of a new frame and suspension, to me anyway.
I'll have fun watching what happens! The V7 III Stone is pretty nice, except the missing tach and flat paint.
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:grin:
I'm happy with the power of a Breva 750, anything on top is gravy.
What would be nicer is the idea of a new frame and suspension, to me anyway.
I'll have fun watching what happens! The V7 III Stone is pretty nice, except the missing tach and flat paint.
So buy a V7 III Special instead. ??
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I personally do not care if anyone considers the V7 to be a so-called beginners bike. I bought mine, and totally love it, based on its actual features. Which to my knowledge are unique in our market today
I wanted something seriously light weight. As large a gas tank as possible. A simple, air-cooled engine. Had to handle well, with plenty of ground clearance. Shaft drive. Standard bike ergonomics. A simple, durable, well tested design. Straightforward to maintain. Capable of easily running 85 mph all day. Able to mount hard saddlebags. Finally, I wanted something that had a bit of character. Not mechanically boring. Not a scooter. And it would be a huge plus if the bike looked good and was not covered by plastic fairings and gee games.
I did not care about maximizing horsepower. I did not care about ABS. I did not want double disk brakes. Did not need two-up capability.
First, I am what you considered as a Millennial and a fairly new rider XD...so my opinion might be tad bias :tongue:
But how you describe the bike is what I was looking for when I decided to purchase the V7 off my friend.
I guess I am one of the rare one who does not care for speed (which is still nice once a while but not a necessity) but just want something reliable that can take me places and looks good without all those plastics...
Beginner bike or not, it has serves my friend and I well over many miles and I expect to have many more if nothing major changes in my life.
As for the FUTURE of the MG...well, after reading thru the history and what not of MG, I can UNDERSTAND why there are limited amount of style of the bikes out there...
MG has stuck with what sell for them and very very very careful about their finances...whether just being frugal or simply just don't have enough funding...that part I can't say.
Since the unfortunate of Euro 4 that killed a lot of MG bikes, I seriously hoping V85 will bring some of the not-so-retro crowd back...especially the off-road enduro crowd.
As I have been slowly plotting my stone into a scrambler the more I dig, the more I realized the cost and amount of mod required, the more I am put off the project as I just don't have that much time on my hand...
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So buy a V7 III Special instead. ??
Hey!
I've thought about that, but I like the cast wheels of the V7 Stone and the black exhaust. I'm a bit anti-chrome and tubed tires. :grin:
I also wish they would go with a coherent paint scheme. The blue on the Special is gorgeous, except why didn't they paint the rear fender blue and left it black? Only the black special has a full matching paint job! WHY?! lol
If I do get a V7III, it may be a Special. I'd just have to budget swapping the wheels (and getting them changed to silver, too much black) and I'd like to repaint that rear fender.
Ah I'm being picky. :laugh:
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(http://thumb.ibb.co/gfKScn/110717_2018_moto_guzzi_v7_iii_rough_01_589x388.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gfKScn)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cBD9q7/110717_2018_moto_guzzi_v7_iii_milano_02_561x388.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cBD9q7)
Hey!
I've thought about that, but I like the cast wheels of the V7 Stone and the black exhaust. I'm a bit anti-chrome and tubed tires. :grin:
I also wish they would go with a coherent paint scheme. The blue on the Special is gorgeous, except why didn't they paint the rear fender blue and left it black? Only the black special has a full matching paint job! WHY?! lol
If I do get a V7III, it may be a Special. I'd just have to budget swapping the wheels (and getting them changed to silver, too much black) and I'd like to repaint that rear fender.
Ah I'm being picky. :laugh:
Maybe a Rough or a Milano are in your future.
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Maybe a Rough or a Milano are in your future.
They just need to swap headlights and exhausts!
:grin:
If I get a bike this year, it'll probably be a Breva 750 again. I really liked the one we had before, and they are a bargain now that the V7 is so prevalent (in Guzzi scale.) They also have 17" wheels front and back and have radials available for both now, which is sweet.
But I'm keeping the V7 in mind, with the ABS, traction control, slick six speed, large tank, and more power.... Would be fine too! I think Guzzi makes some good stuff right now, but I do hope we'll see a bit more variety in the mix soon. V85, new 1100, etc.
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as someone who has owned & ridden bikes ranging from not-that-much-faster-than-walking to holy-shit-I-can-barely-hold-on, I think it's safe to say the majority of riders own bikes that have a great deal more capability than they really make use of. For the select few who do own 100HP+ bikes for which they have the skill set to fully utilize, wisdom (brought on by not dying) typically limits the flexing of that muscle to track days, not flirting with disaster on the Pacific Coast Highway. In that light, a 50-60HP twin is more than enough for most things & is apt to contribute to your longevity as it is less prone to twitchy right wrist disease which in many cases can be fatal (and nearly always expensive). Thus my interest in a larger bore V roadster (ala supersized V7) has less to do with moving from entry or re-entry or whatever bike than it does to finding one that fits my 6'2" frame better. Also, as I spend a fair amount of time riding from the left coast to the right, something larger w/o being in the dreadnought class would be nice, particularly if it where not plastic dipped or predending to be a refugee from 1953. Classic roadsters are selling & to all sorts of riders. Guzzi is well positioned to bring out a larger one. As Triumph is learning with the 1,200's, there is a market for them when done right.
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I wanted something seriously lightweight. As large a gas tank as possible. A simple, air-cooled engine. Had to handle well, with plenty of ground clearance. Shaft drive. Standard bike ergonomics. A simple, durable, well tested design. Straightforward to maintain. Capable of easily running 85 mph all day. Able to mount hard saddlebags. Finally, I wanted something that had a bit of character. Not mechanically boring. Not a scooter. And it would be a huge plus if the bike looked good and was not covered by plastic fairings and gee games.
I did not care about maximizing horsepower. - Did not need two-up capability.
And then I planned to ride the heck out of it.
^^THIS!^^
IMHO, if Piaggio would make this...
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bJ4xcn/v7_III_Anniversario_main_image_anniversario.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bJ4xcn)
...in this size/weight but in a 500, priced at say $5500.00+- USD, I bet they'd sell out (I'd buy one).
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nymM3S/5_E66557_A0_B44418_C8_DA53_A3_F8_CDE71_CD_ashx.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nymM3S)
With the trend favoring smaller displacement bikes, something like this could tic the boxes for quite a few new, returning, and established riders.
Piaggio would be smart to keep competition between brands to a minimum. Each should have its own distinct flavor and complement the other. That said, they won't get sold without the public having easy access to view/test ride models and equally painless access to service and parts after purchase.
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Funny, as I was deciding what my next would be, my final two bike were between the MG V7III Special and the Yamaha SR400. The more I learned about the V7, the easier the decision became.
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I�m at an interesting place as per this thread goes. I�ve owned and driven a lot of Geese in these last 13 or 14 years I�ve been riding street, probably well over 100k miles on MG. I wasn�t worried for MG 13 years ago. I wasn�t worried during the recession. Even as recently as 2 years ago when MG decided to drop the CARC models and focus on retro and cruisers; I thought it was a smart move. Then. Two years on, I�m now not so sure and I sit here today more concerned for the brand than I have ever been. And it�s not even so much the bikes, though I do think they made a major mistep with the albeit wonderful V9. I think my worry has more to do with where things are per se.
In theory it made so much seeming sense. MG was retro before mustaches and dress boots on motorcycles became fashionable; thus, them focusing on what they have always done well (cruisers and retro) would, on paper, seem the right move, or at least a financially smart one. But motorcycle sales are declining overall and conversely, there has been a kind of explosion in the retro field. No longer is it just someone choosing between a V7 and/or a Bonnie. There are not 1, but 2 XSR versions now, a host of Duc Scramblers, too many 9T versions to count, a new Kawi �retro�. Now I doubt there are many folks out there choosing directly between a 9T and a V7 but what I�m saying is that overall, I dunno if this is a niche field anymore. It�s not. The competition is more fierce than it has ever been.
Meanwhile in baggerdom, though Harley is arguably making some of the best bikes they have ever made, their sales are declining - I don�t think it�s the so called �death rattle� a thread here would believe but I do think it�s a possible indication of the bagger/cruiser market�s overall direction. And too, when the 1400 first came out it had a lot going for it that many others in the field didn�t have: cruise control, ride modes, traction control, gobs of horsepower. How things have changed even in the last two-three years. Nowadays, even the damn super nakeds have cruise control and mega scooters have some version of traction control and so forth. Technology on motorcycles has also exploded where iPad worthy TFT dashes and a ton of other gadgets are becoming more and more standard.
I�ve always been accustomed to seeing leftover Geese on sales floors and it�s almost cliche to say but with some truth it is that many of us wait to buy a new one until they are �on sale� so to speak; however, and this is a very unscientific statement here, but I don�t recall ever seeing as many leftover Geese sitting on dealer floors as I see today. I recently had a wonderful and seemingly modestly successful dealer tell me selling Geese is not only a losing proposition, it is a losing reality where unless you have some kind of passion and pockets to keep it going you�ll find the bottom quickly. I think it has always been this way somewhat; I just worry it�s now worse than I can ever recall.
So where does all of the above leave Guzzi? Where they�ve always been? I flat out dunno. But I do know I am more worried for them than I have ever been in these last 13 or 14 years.
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IMHO, if Piaggio would make this...
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bJ4xcn/v7_III_Anniversario_main_image_anniversario.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bJ4xcn)
...in this size/weight but in a 500, priced at say $5500.00+- USD, I bet they'd sell out (I'd buy one).
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nymM3S/5_E66557_A0_B44418_C8_DA53_A3_F8_CDE71_CD_ashx.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nymM3S)
A 500cc V7III would cost nearly as much to build as a 750cc one. The complexity, manufacturing, and assembly costs are all the same. It would likely be identical, just with a smaller bore and or stroke. So, there is no way they could make a profit selling it for $5,500. In order to get the price down, they'd have to go even cheaper on things like suspension, and I'm not sure that is even possible.
For Guzzi to build a retro-style bike cheaper than the V7 series, it would need to be a single, and likely chain drive.
Now, there are some here who have clamored for a Nuovo-Nuovo-Falcone. I'm thinking in the current market, they'd sell like three or four of those.
I would think that it would need to be more like the Yamaha SR400, but, with electric start, and Italian style. It could/should be priced around $5,000.
It'll be interesting to see how the now Royal Enfield twins do in the $6,500 price range. I think that they're could eventually be of the biggest potential threats to the Guzzi V7 market if the quality is good, and they expand their dealer network.
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Hey!
I've thought about that, but I like the cast wheels of the V7 Stone and the black exhaust. I'm a bit anti-chrome and tubed tires. :grin:
I also wish they would go with a coherent paint scheme. The blue on the Special is gorgeous, except why didn't they paint the rear fender blue and left it black? Only the black special has a full matching paint job! WHY?! lol
If I do get a V7III, it may be a Special. I'd just have to budget swapping the wheels (and getting them changed to silver, too much black) and I'd like to repaint that rear fender.
Ah I'm being picky. :laugh:
I dunno. I always consider whatever motorcycle I buy to the be the starting point from which my motorcycle comes. I'm very picky however; I make whatever I buy into what I want. I just try to start with a basis that has most of the essential basics the way I like them.
I bought a 2017 V7III Racer. Love it, all the basics are fine: seating position, seat, controls, frame, rear suspension units, performance, etc.
I've fitted the mufflers I like and updated the ECU programming to suit. I've changed out the mirrors for ones I prefer, am changing out the wheels and tires for ones I prefer, and am upgrading the fork's damping units. The black plastic fenders are light and strong, don't bother me, but I am intrigued with the look it would have if I went to the polished aluminum fenders, and (particularly since I am not much of a fan of the faux hold down belt over the tank) I'm considering custom paint as well.
It's all a matter of perspective. :cool:
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I think most people that are attracted to the retro thing don't really care so much about performance. It is looks and price.
A Ducati Scramber? Looks cool. Decent price. Get to say you own a Ducati. Go to BMW dealer. R nine T. Looks cool. Ouch kind of expensive. Get to say you own a BMW.
Similar thing at a Triumph dealer.
For the MG V7 line ... they are way cheaper than a R nine T. They look more retro than the Ducati. Triumph is pretty darn close. And cool retro guys don't want a Harley!
So I think the more the retro thing grows, the better for MG.
But wow, if they made a retro V11/12, and kept the price point reasonable, I think they'd sell every one they made.
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How many of you guys who own V7's or V9's would buy a modern day 2019 V11 model similar to the Scura, Coppa, Lemans style? There's something inherently sexy about the V11's, stylish, powerful, torquey, racey, comfortable for decent long distances.
The V7 and the V9 don't come across as hefty or powerful, but more for toodling along on a country road at a nice pace in a comfortable fashion, lightweight enough to not have to worry about dropping it on a hill or in gravel or dirt, or maneuvering it in the garage, and still very stylish, albeit "slimmed" down from the V11 line.
I think the V7 Carbon and the various flavors are geared towards but not exclusively for city driving and commuting...a few hardy folks are putting long distance mileage on them...but not too many.
What would be interesting to see, if the data is available is how many of the V7 variants are sold in Europe vs. US as I suspect the demographic buying them in Europe is different than here in the US.
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How many of you guys who own V7's or V9's would buy a modern day 2019 V11 model similar to the Scura, Coppa, Lemans style? There's something inherently sexy about the V11's, stylish, powerful, torquey, racey, comfortable for decent long distances.
The V7 and the V9 don't come across as hefty or powerful, but more for toodling along on a country road at a nice pace in a comfortable fashion, lightweight enough to not have to worry about dropping it on a hill or in gravel or dirt, or maneuvering it in the garage, and still very stylish, albeit "slimmed" down from the V11 line.
I think the V7 Carbon and the various flavors are geared towards but not exclusively for city driving and commuting...a few hardy folks are putting long distance mileage on them...but not too many.
What would be interesting to see, if the data is available is how many of the V7 variants are sold in Europe vs. US as I suspect the demographic buying them in Europe is different than here in the US.
I'm sure they'd sell a new sport V11, but not to me.
And I don't have a problem putting miles on my V7. Though ironically I'll probably take the RK on such things now.
But the RK is unnecessarily big for the task even more than some feel the V7 is small.
I dunno, I take extreme pleasure in the, uh, conservative nature of the V7.
But I don't think Guzzi should limit themselves to it.
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Being a lifelong "Standard" rider (with a short stint on an '83 Shadow for a while), that grew up on the back of CB350s and drolled over CB750s until I started hoarding them myself... the V7 is an ideal modern standard, and one that I happily add mileage to. Is it a great commuter? Yeah it is. It's light, low center of gravity, huge tank, good ergos... but these are all things that also make it a great classic "touring bike". Slap a sheepskin on the seat, hang some bags off it, and away you go.
I *think* (meaning I'm speaking from a place of personal opinion and emotion and nothing else) that the V9 should have capitalized on the interest shown in the V7. As much as the old guard here seem to sneer at the V7 as some sort of retro-hipstermobile, facts is facts, and it's a popular bike. The V9 seems to have gone after the Sportster, the Shadow, and the Bolt. Problem is... that market is jam packed already, and they all meet my previous buyer's criteria of "solid support". Had the V9 hit these shores in more "standard" trim, I probably would have been first in line. Give me that big ol' V7 tank, and some sit up and beg ergos, a decent 19"/17" front/rear wheel combo to open up some options for tires, and I'd be happy. I know the old guard wishes for a new bike in LeMans trim... but lets be serious, most of you would decry such a move as "for the hipsters" and continue riding your classics anyways.
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While the V9 Roamer and Bobber aren't my thing, I get why they did it.
Why not go after the Sportster/Bolt market? They're trying to expand their market reach. That is a good thing to keep Guzzi around making the bikes that I do like.
I do think that the V7III should've gotten the 850 motor to make it better able to compete with the Triumph Street Twin.
I hope that the new 850cc and the rumered 1100cc version of it find their way onto V7 style bikes. This would position them well against the 900cc and 1200cc Triumph classics.
I'd love me a new green-frame Moto Guzzi 1100S! Basically a 1000S with a pair of modern 320mm 4-piston Brembo brakes up front and a fuel injected 4V/cylinder 1100cc Vtwin putting out 110 HP and 85 lb*ft of torque. Put a checkbox on the order sheet for Ohlins shocks in the back, and a big-piston Showa or Ohlins fork up front.
I love the Thruxton R, but would buy a new Guzz 1100S over it.
(http://www.nydesmo.com/images/IMG_9941_a_sml.jpg)
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a V7 is a classic roadster, the V9 moved more into cruiser territory. Roadsters/retro's sales are expanding as they have broader demographic appeal and tend to be at more attractive price points. Cruiser sales are soft as they tend to skew older and be more expensive. While there is an expanding universe of mid-sized retro's, larger displacement options are still pretty thin for retro's. As Guzzi use to do quite a bit of that it should be fairly easy for them to do it again. 'Pretty sure a V11 version of the V7 platform would do a lot better than the Eldorado's and Norge's I see sitting on the floor. It's not about which is a better bike, hell, nearly all modern bikes are pretty good. It's about building bikes that more people want to own. Roadsters are broadly aspirational at the moment, not sure that is limited to the 650-750 class.
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While the V9 Roamer and Bobber aren't my thing, I get why they did it.
Why not go after the Sportster/Bolt market? They're trying to expand their market reach. That is a good thing to keep Guzzi around making the bikes that I do like.
I do think that the V7III should've gotten the 850 motor to make it better able to compete with the Triumph Street Twin.
I hope that the new 850cc and the rumered 1100cc version of it find their way onto V7 style bikes. This would position them well against the 900cc and 1200cc Triumph classics.
I'd love me a new green-frame Moto Guzzi 1100S! Basically a 1000S with a pair of modern 320mm 4-piston Brembo brakes up front and a fuel injected 4V/cylinder 1100cc Vtwin putting out 110 HP and 85 lb*ft of torque. Put a checkbox on the order sheet for Ohlins shocks in the back, and a big-piston Showa or Ohlins fork up front.
I love the Thruxton R, but would buy a new Guzz 1100S over it.
(http://www.nydesmo.com/images/IMG_9941_a_sml.jpg)
'seriously, who the hell would not love that bike?
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a V7 is a classic roadster, the V9 moved more into cruiser territory. Roadsters/retro's sales are expanding as they have broader demographic appeal and tend to be at more attractive price points. Cruiser sales are soft as they tend to skew older and be more expensive. While there is an expanding universe of mid-sized retro's, larger displacement options are still pretty thin for retro's. As Guzzi use to do quite a bit of that it should be fairly easy for them to do it again. 'Pretty sure a V11 version of the V7 platform would do a lot better than the Eldorado's and Norge's I see sitting on the floor. It's not about which is a better bike, hell, nearly all modern bikes are pretty good. It's about building bikes that more people want to own. Roadsters are broadly aspirational at the moment, not sure that is limited to the 650-750 class.
Why I keep this one:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hAQrOS/C1744696_725_E_41_F7_8_EB6_225_BD5_FD0755.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hAQrOS)
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I remember hearing that the V9 was requested by the UK importer? Is that correct?
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While the V9 Roamer and Bobber aren't my thing, I get why they did it.
Why not go after the Sportster/Bolt market? They're trying to expand their market reach. That is a good thing to keep Guzzi around making the bikes that I do like.
I do think that the V7III should've gotten the 850 motor to make it better able to compete with the Triumph Street Twin.
I hope that the new 850cc and the rumered 1100cc version of it find their way onto V7 style bikes. This would position them well against the 900cc and 1200cc Triumph classics.
I'd love me a new green-frame Moto Guzzi 1100S! Basically a 1000S with a pair of modern 320mm 4-piston Brembo brakes up front and a fuel injected 4V/cylinder 1100cc Vtwin putting out 110 HP and 85 lb*ft of torque. Put a checkbox on the order sheet for Ohlins shocks in the back, and a big-piston Showa or Ohlins fork up front.
I love the Thruxton R, but would buy a new Guzz 1100S over it.
(http://www.nydesmo.com/images/IMG_9941_a_sml.jpg)
I’d rather have a V1400S. The 1000S was 535lbs. If Guzzi could change the ergos on a 1400 and cut some weight it would make a great sporty standard. The forks, brakes and engine on the 1400 are all very good. Some quality shocks, classic styling and a standard riding position would check all the boxes for me.
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How many of you guys who own V7's or V9's would buy a modern day 2019 V11 model similar to the Scura, Coppa, Lemans style? There's something inherently sexy about the V11's, stylish, powerful, torquey, racey, comfortable for decent long distances.
The V7 and the V9 don't come across as hefty or powerful, but more for toodling along on a country road at a nice pace in a comfortable fashion, lightweight enough to not have to worry about dropping it on a hill or in gravel or dirt, or maneuvering it in the garage, and still very stylish, albeit "slimmed" down from the V11 line.
...
The V7III Racer comes across as a proper sport bike to other modern sport bike riders who also like naked bikes, since most modern sport bikes are fairing-clad little missiles. The fact that the Racer is more comfortable and has an extremely broad and useable power band actually give it something of a advantage for a quick wiggle through the twisty mountain roads too. The fact that it is comfortable and broad spectrum enough to also be used outside of the 'pure sport' ride is another plus. Sport bike riders like small, low weight, easy to steer, easy to ride bikes with good brakes and lots of ground clearance, which describes a V7III Racer very well.
Nobody wants a sport bike to be easy to pick up more than they want a sport bike not to fall down.
Where I think Moto Guzzi would find another plus and another level with the V7III Racer is if they made a model which included premium front suspension (preload and dual damping adjustable fork) with tubeless wheels and modern radial tires. I'm spending a hefty chunk of change upgrading my Racer to have those features as well; it would have been less expensive by some amount if included in an OEM package. I would have paid that premium gladly. It doesn't need more power or more size or more weight ...
As to whether I'd buy a V11/V12 Sport like the Scura or LeMans: Yes, I would... in addition to the V7 Racer. I'd like one of those with a half-fairing, LeMans V sized fuel tank, and the same ergonomics as the Racer, a little nod to fitting compact panniers for sporty touring when desired, mostly for the additional mid-range torque and ability to run longer days with a bit of wind protection to reduce fatigue.
That's what I used to have with my 'sportified' 850T and LeMans V: the slightly smaller, lighter, more tight twisties bike, and the larger, taller geared, fairing-clad long distance sport traveler. That's the range of what I want ... I could care less about "adventure touring" behemoths or overweight "full dress" tourers. What other want ... well, that's their affair. :cool:
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Well....I've owned a bunch of modern sportbikes and I find the Racer utterly underwhelming. Sure, it's charming and lovely to look at but it's an antique. The racer is about as related to a modern sportbike as a hippopotamus is to a mongoose. Most of the sub 400cc sportbikes put out by the Japanese and KTM are as quick(or quicker), faster, handle and brake better... and cost half as much. They also weigh up to 100lbs less. Sales are a good measuring stick when judging what sportbike riders actually want. You'll see a thousand Ninja 300 and 400's to every Racer. Anyone riding a Racer over a New England mountain road with broken pavement and frost heaves, trying to keep up with a modern sportbike would get killed.
The Racer is an antique and appeals to folks who like antiques or want to relive our youth. The problem with the Racer is it doesn't have the performance to match the looks. I think a classically styled roadster/1000S might sell better.
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John... I agree with you. I think the racer is a bit silly. The Special and the Stone claim to be nothing other than what they are, but dressing the Racer up the way they have seems kind... phony? Is that the right word here?
Mind you... the Ninja 300 is a buzzy little sewing machine that feels like it's gonna explode at highway speeds... so I'm not sure it's the best comparison, really, it's a little bike dressed up as a sportbike, itself.
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the new 1100 replacement for the sports bikes sounds interesting. Unfortunately, if they don't get it to market, I may too old to ride it.
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the new 1100 replacement for the sports bikes sounds interesting. Unfortunately, if they don't get it to market, I may too old to ride it.
Nah John...you'll be riding for at least 2 more decades easily! Imagine a new Greenie!! :)
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The V7III Racer comes across as a proper sport bike to other modern sport bike riders who also like naked bikes, since most modern sport bikes are fairing-clad little missiles.
A V7 Racer is by no means a sport bike; it masquerades as a race bike, but, has no meaningful performance differences to distinguish it from any other cooking V7. They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk; a very cute poser, in other words. But, they do look good. Moto Guzzi hasn't made a sport bike since the Sport 1100i.
Ride a Ducati Panigale or Kawasaki ZX-6R, and report back (I recently rode a Panigale 1299S, had my mind blown, and now remember what a modern sport bike is).
Kristian
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Well....I've owned a bunch of modern sportbikes and I find the Racer utterly underwhelming. Sure, it's charming and lovely to look at but it's an antique. The racer is about as related to a modern sportbike as a hippopotamus is to a mongoose. Most of the sub 400cc sportbikes put out by the Japanese and KTM are as quick(or quicker), faster, handle and brake better... and cost half as much. They also weigh up to 100lbs less. Sales are a good measuring stick when judging what sportbike riders actually want. You'll see a thousand Ninja 300 and 400's to every Racer. Anyone riding a Racer over a New England mountain road with broken pavement and frost heaves, trying to keep up with a modern sportbike would get killed.
The Racer is an antique and appeals to folks who like antiques or want to relive our youth. The problem with the Racer is it doesn't have the performance to match the looks. I think a classically styled roadster/1000S might sell better.
Agreed. I can't really stand the things; I like regular V7s, but, not this cynicism and marketing approach behind the Racer.
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... You'll see a thousand Ninja 300 and 400's to every Racer. Anyone riding a Racer over a New England mountain road with broken pavement and frost heaves, trying to keep up with a modern sportbike would get killed.
The Racer is an antique and appeals to folks who like antiques or want to relive our youth. The problem with the Racer is it doesn't have the performance to match the looks. I think a classically styled roadster/1000S might sell better.
(bolded) This is silly because they only make about a thousand Racers a year, world wide. Of course you're going to see a thousand Ninja things to every Racer ... there are simply tens of thousands of them out there.
The other point, regarding crappy pavement: That's why the Racer needs a version with better suspension. It's not the power so much as the ability for the tires to track on crappy pavement. Racer is not as powerful as my LeMans V (same as the 1000S but with a fairing) was but it's much more agile. Put a half fairing on Racer and bump it up to an 850, and I think it might put up a challenge to the LMV or 1000S on performance.
The 1000S and LMV are antiques too. Their frame dates from even before Racer's frame. A classically styled 1000S with a modern chassis wouldn't be a 1000S, and it would be every bit as much of a stylish "antique and appeals to folks who like antiques or want to relive our youth" as the Racer, if you want to make such negative noises about it. Personally, I see nothing wrong with liking these lovely old bikes for what they are, and the Racer carries the same design and memes forward.
If I wanted a Ninja, I'd have bought one. :rolleyes:
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A V7 Racer is by no means a sport bike; it masquerades as a race bike, but, has no meaningful performance differences to distinguish it from any other cooking V7. They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk; a very cute poser, in other words. But, they do look good. Moto Guzzi hasn't made a sport bike since the Sport 1100i.
Ride a Ducati Panigale or Kawasaki ZX-6R, and report back (I recently rode a Panigale 1299S, had my mind blown, and now remember what a modern sport bike is).
Seems like your criteria for a sport bike is that it's ungainly, miserably uncomfortable, and useless for anything but showing off how much material you can shave off your knee pucks. You might consider a grinding wheel.
I rode a Panigale too. Fast, sure. Hated riding it. My concept of sport bike is a "sporty, good handling bike I can go places with." A motorcycle is a motor vehicle, and if I can't use it to go places, I have no interest in it. If I want to go racing, there are NO street bikes I have any interest in whatever: then I want a race bike designed for the task.
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I never thought "Racer" meant racer but was a tribute/homage/celebration of an old school sporting motorcycle.
And, I'd tend to agree with the above post. My Street 3, while a brilliant machine, was the bike I've cared for least in all the motorcycles I've ever been on. Doesn't make it good-bad-or indifferent-just not for me. Was happy to sell it after 3 years. But then again I was very fond of my Rocket 3, so what do I know?
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Interesting discussion for sure.
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My concept of sport bike is a "sporty, good handling bike I can go places with."
Nope, that's a standard bike or even a modern ADV. True sport bikes are by definition compromised for most things other than speed and handling. No V7 is a sport bike (except the true original); they're standards, jacks of all trades. The Racer merely looks like it means business. Mind you, they're very cute indeed; theyr'e just nothing like a sport bike. Fun, easy to ride, friendly, usable, non-threatening.
And that is the crux of my initial point; I'd loathe for MG to focus exclusively on retro bikes sprinkled with sentimentality.
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Nah John...you'll be riding for at least 2 more decades easily! Imagine a new Greenie!! :)
....of course we could all die of boredom waiting on any of these bikes.
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(http://www.mgcn.nl/dameijer/images/stories/bicilindrica_500cc1933.jpg)
I know this won't happen, but they need to go back to the future with a different engine configuration and more horsepower in a lighter package. Of course it would have to be water cooled for the horse power. At the very least they will get more noticed and when they claim this is a copy of a Ducati, just roll out the above. And of course, keep the small blocks as they sell well.
Once again, I know this won't happen.
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I have been colourizing the V7 II wiring diagram and eventually noticed that the original I have (I can't remember where I got it) has no mention anywhere of Moto Guzzi. It has trademark symbols for Piaggio and Aprillia, but no Moto Guzzi. I find this a little strange? Does it point to a future direction? As they say in the classics, "Just Sayin'".
Cheers
Brian :wink: :grin:
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Nope, that's a standard bike or even a modern ADV. True sport bikes are by definition compromised for most things other than speed and handling. No V7 is a sport bike (except the true original); they're standards, jacks of all trades. The Racer merely looks like it means business. Mind you, they're very cute indeed; theyr'e just nothing like a sport bike. Fun, easy to ride, friendly, usable, non-threatening.
And that is the crux of my initial point; I'd loathe for MG to focus exclusively on retro bikes sprinkled with sentimentality.
Funny. How is it that the V7 Sport is a sport bike where the V7III Racer is not, considering that the Racer has about ten more HP, far better brakes, far better suspension, handles far better, and is faster?
Your criteria is screwy.
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Funny. How is it that the V7 Sport is a sport bike where the V7III Racer is not, considering that the Racer has about ten more HP, far better brakes, far better suspension, handles far better, and is faster?
Your criteria is screwy.
No amount of excuses or trying to change the definition of sportbike will turn a V7 Racer into a sportbike. It’s a 40hp standard with uncomfortable ergonomics. It accelerates, brakes, handles and stops just like a Stone or Special. It’s been optimized to empty the pockets of a few dozen middle aged men and hipsters in the US each year, not for performance.
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Funny. How is it that the V7 Sport is a sport bike where the V7III Racer is not, considering that the Racer has about ten more HP, far better brakes, far better suspension, handles far better, and is faster?
Your criteria is screwy.
Somehow I don't think you really know what a sport bike is. If you have ridden a Panigale, then you should understand the vast chasm between those--real sport bikes--and current V7s. The V7 Sport was the Panigale of its day.
The V7 Sport was near or at the top of the pile of fast bikes when it came out in 1971, and had significantly more power than a current V7, with 70-72 BHP. There was very little faster or sportier than a V7 Sport in 1971, and they also had a very healthy racing history. A V7 Sport would definitely see off any modern V7 in both acceleration and top speed with a real 125 MPH on offer. The current V7's design brief has nothing in common with the V7 Sport; a faint echo is all. Current V7s are nice bikes, but, are MG's entry-level vs. the V7 Sport, which was MG's top-of-the-line in '71-'74.
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The Panigale and motorcycles of that ilk are race replicas, not sport bikes. They look like race bikes and are useless things to parade around with and look cool on because they're too uncomfortable to go anywhere with. They're for ricky racer poseurs that want to make believe they can hang with the fast guys at the race track. Most spend most of their viable life before being discarded for the next pretty thing sitting on a trailer or doing track days.
A sport bike is a sporting motorcycle: that is, a motorcycle (a useful piece of motorized two-wheel transportation) that has been set up with a sporting riding position to improve weight distribution and handling capabilities for riders who want to ride. They're not "adventure tourers" or "sport touring" things ... those are basically big heavy camels with a racing stripe on them, sort of like the "cruiser" is a big heavy camel that has had the bags stripped off of it. Sport bikes are basically standard motorcycles that have been set up in a sporty way, much the same as sports cars are nice little sedans that have been shortened, lightened, and lowered, restricted to two seats for sporty driving.
I guess the marketing goons have done a number on the motorcycling world and divided it up into a thousand little niches to sell people like you lots of useless things that you call motorcycles. I call those "pretty toys for wealthy goofballs" ... useless toys, albeit very pretty. I buy motorcycles that are designed to be ridden, not posed with.
Moto Guzzi has always produced practical, useful, real motorcycles that can be ridden to go places with and enjoy. I'd not like to see them doing your interpretation of a sport bike: that's a waste of time and resources.
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What a silly argument, largely semantics on both sides.
A Miata isn't a Carrera either but I know which I'd prefer.
And a Miata would be embarrassed by a WRX or an RS, but that doesn't make a Miata any less fun.
The Racer isn't trying to be a modern sportbike, it's more a fun sporting bike made in homage to what one was one.
That said I'm told by a number who would know that the legend and power of the original V7 has grown with the telling. And though the one I rode was neat I'd still take the Racer if I were looking for such things.
No matter, as an Italian Sportster rider says with some frequency "tastes must not be discussed" and well you get the point...
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A bit harsh to call the V7 Racer "uncomfortable" and such. That's for the rider to determine. Therer's been guys on this forum who have stated they are quite pleased with the riding position. Gerry has rear sets on his Stone (2015 like mine) and when I tried his bike I found them very pleasing. And it also appears the bike sells well enough. The V7 family of bikes generate very positive riding experience reports from the vast majority of their riders.
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What a silly argument, largely semantics on both sides.
A Miata isn't a Carrera either but I know which I'd prefer.
And a Miata would be embarrassed by a WRX or an RS, but that doesn't make a Miata any less fun.
That said I'm told by a number who would know that the legend and power of the original V7 has grown with the telling. And though the one I rode was neat I'd still take the Racer if I were looking for such things.
Speaking of silly arguments, a Miata is definitely not equivalent to a V7; they are true sports cars in the most hard-core sense of the word. And, I can tell you from loads of personal experience my Carrera is way more fun than the Miata we had years ago, very sweet car though that was.
Finally, magazine testing show V7 Sports is having 10+ miles per hour on current V7s in the quarter, and that 125 miles an hour was well within reach of a well tuned machine. Look it up.
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Speaking of silly arguments, a Miata is definitely not equivalent to a V7; they are true sports cars in the most hard-core sense of the word. And, I can tell you from loads of personal experience my Carrera is way more fun than the Miata we had years ago, very sweet car though that was.
Finally, magazine testing show V7 Sports is having 10+ miles per hour on current V7s in the quarter, and that 125 miles an hour was well within reach of a well tuned machine. Look it up.
Hard core? How? Certainly not in this metric of hp you seem to hold so dear.
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I thought a sports car was a tub, seat, pedals, roof, and side curtains-nothing more.
I don't consider my Mini drop top a sports car but a sporting car. Same with my (gone) TR-8. Now my buddies 356, THAT'S a sports car.
But I'd agree with kev m, it's semantics. I'm thinking this is the conversation we'd have over a few beers and it would be fun.
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One of my tenants, who owns a high end body shop and is the only MB certified shop between Cleveland and NYC says that if it has window cranks and/or a radio it's not a sports car-so there it is.
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sport bike vs sport bike
sports car vs sports cars
really?
potato vs potato
tomato vs tomato
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
is green better than blue?
ride what you want. drive what you want. eat what you want
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sport bike vs sport bike
sports car vs sports cars
really?
potato vs potato
ride what you want. drive what you want. eat what you want
And talk about what you want, all day long, here on Guzzi Talk Radio. It's what it's for.
What's a classic bike, really? Are three-wheelers really motorcycles? Is a Centauro a "cruiser" in any sense? How is "Norge" REALLY pronounced?
A detailed, intense argument on the difference between a Sport bike and a Sport-Touring bike is what makes this world go round ....
Lannis
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And talk about what you want, all day long, here on Guzzi Talk Radio. It's what it's for.
What's a classic bike, really? Are three-wheelers really motorcycles? Is a Centauro a "cruiser" in any sense? How is "Norge" REALLY pronounced?
A detailed, intense argument on the difference between a Sport bike and a Sport-Touring bike is what makes this world go round ....
Lannis
yes, the great philosophical inquiries of the universe and all existence.
And now we can argue that adventure bikes are only touring bikes dressed like enduros in drag.
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What's obvious to me from this thread's discussion is that Piaggio and Moto Guzzi know much more about what to do regards their future than anyone here. :cool:
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Certainly not in this metric of hp you seem to hold so dear.
You have zero idea where you got that from; you're making stuff up on the fly, just pulling it out of thin air.
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And talk about what you want, all day long, here on Guzzi Talk Radio. It's what it's for.
What's a classic bike, really? Are three-wheelers really motorcycles? Is a Centauro a "cruiser" in any sense? How is "Norge" REALLY pronounced?
A detailed, intense argument on the difference between a Sport bike and a Sport-Touring bike is what makes this world go round ....
Lannis
Should we start an oil thread? :cheesy:
A Racer is the motorcycle equivalent of putting a giant wing on the back of a Honda Civic.
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You have zero idea where you got that from; you're making stuff up on the fly, just pulling it out of thin air.
So you're calling your posts thin air.
Ok, agreed. [emoji39]
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A Racer is the motorcycle equivalent of putting a giant wing on the back of a Honda Civic.
I don't know if I'd go that far ... I sort of like the Racer, and I'd hate a Honda Civic with a wing on it.
We bought a base Pontiac Firebird once, kept the 4-cylinder, but added a 5-speed and a T-top and the better suspension and a couple of sporty cosmetic cues; more like that, in my opinion.
Lannis
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Aprilia started making money selling scooters , then , they started making big boy sport motorcycles.
I think Guzzi ( Aprilia ) is doing the same thing . They are trying to make money selling reasonable priced motorcycles ( the V7 series ) to make money to be able to expand.
Sure selling big heavy cruisers is not the key for guzzi , their best selling bikes are the small block. Probably because they appeal a broad range of riders .
I think they understood that producing big cruisers to compete with HD is not working , HD is not selling much anymore... perhaps the cruisers market is going down ?
Moto guzzi will never produce anything as sporty as the Daytona or 1100 sport series. They might going to produce something ""sportier" or "sport oriented" but nothing too extreme.
For those one that are waiting for a V twin , liquid cooled engine , final chain drive, sport motorcycle...maybe Aprilia should just re-badge the RSV1000 and call it Moto Guzzi ?
Hey that is gonna be easy and cheap , just produce a new set of stickers and engine badge and you got a new moto guzzi superbike..... :boozing:
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I get John's point. But then again, I like the Triumph "fake" carbs. I don't see them that way but do see them as a homage to the older way of doing things.
Wait. Did someone say oil thread? Good! I have a question. My 2001 Jackal book says 20-50 but HAMLIN showed me a paper from MG that superseeds the manual and calls for 10-60. But! Some here say NO it's gotta be 10-40.
HHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPP. I'm so confused. Oh, it's a sports bike? Opps.
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I get John's point. But then again, I like the Triumph "fake" carbs. I don't see them that way but do see them as a homage to the older way of doing things.
Wait. Did someone say oil thread? Good! I have a question. My 2001 Jackal book says 20-50 but HAMLIN showed me a paper from MG that superseeds the manual and calls for 10-60. But! Some here say NO it's gotta be 10-40.
HHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPP. I'm so confused. Oh, it's a sports bike? Opps.
Was 10-60w 4t even on the market in 2001 when your Jackal was made? I dunno but at nearly $15 a quart, oil changes are pretty expensive for the new Guzzi's at almost $75 a pop with the filter. It's $150 to change the plugs, oil and filter and change the gear box oil if you do it yourself on a California 1400.
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I get John's point. But then again, I like the Triumph "fake" carbs. I don't see them that way but do see them as a homage to the older way of doing things.
Wait. Did someone say oil thread? Good! I have a question. My 2001 Jackal book says 20-50 but HAMLIN showed me a paper from MG that superseeds the manual and calls for 10-60. But! Some here say NO it's gotta be 10-40.
HHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPP. I'm so confused. Oh, it's a sports bike? Opps.
20 W50 Dino , unless you like spending money :laugh: I'll send a bill for the psychiatry session later :grin:
Dusty
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Oh goodie, an oil thread. :evil:
John Henry
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Oh goodie, an oil thread. :evil:
John Henry
It was inevitable John :rolleyes:
Dusty
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I have a question. My 2001 Jackal book says 20-50 but HAMLIN showed me a paper from MG that superseeds the manual and calls for 10-60. But! Some here say NO it's gotta be 10-40.
HHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPP. I'm so confused. Oh, it's a sports bike? Opps.
Solid lifter Guzzis through 2004: 20w50
Hydraulic Lifter Guzzis 2003/2004: 5w40
Small Blocks since 2009, Cal Vintage, CARC Guzzis, and Cal 1400s: 10w60
I doubt your 2001 Cal Jackal has a preference, so use what makes you feel happy. Some swear by Yak Fat.
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Mike, Guzzi did change the recommendation to 10/60 on the solids at some point. (2010 or 2012 maybe.) But, yak fat is good, although I prefer virgin olive oil.
John Henry
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Mike, Guzzi did change the recommendation to 10/60 on the solids at some point. (2010 or 2012 maybe.) But, yak fat is good, although I prefer virgin olive oil.
John Henry
On solid lifter big blocks, I thought the change to recommend 10w60 only applied to Cal Vintage, Breva 11/12, Griso 11/12, Norge, and Stelvio.
But I could be wrong. Steve or Pete should know for sure.
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The bulletin is fact-MG now recommends 10-60.
The rest was an attempt at humor. And, a fine single malt will do for therapy! Can you tell winter has gone on WAY too long for me yet?
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Oil thread? Oh, yes. As a full Sicilian I can say the house is stocked with fine oils from Italy, Greece, Spain, and California, but not as such are suited to The California.
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The bulletin is fact-MG now recommends 10-60.
The rest was an attempt at humor. And, a fine single malt will do for therapy! Can you tell winter has gone on WAY too long for me yet?
If it's the bulletin I remember (I can't look now as I'm not near my laptop) I THINK it meant on late-model solid lifter California's and mentioned some specifically like the Cal-Vin.
The bulletin mentions changing homologation standards, which wouldn't include open-loop models like the Jackal.
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I just saw this pic and it's not the V85 I saw in other ADV type pics. Did I miss something? This is a beauty!
(http://thumb.ibb.co/coBEdS/goose.jpg) (http://ibb.co/coBEdS)
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I just saw this pic and it's not the V85 I saw in other ADV type pics. Did I miss something? This is a beauty!
(http://thumb.ibb.co/coBEdS/goose.jpg) (http://ibb.co/coBEdS)
If that ever became a real model in the line up I'd buy one. I'd love a bike just like that with the 1400 drivetrain in it but I'd be OK with the rumored V85 engine as long as it came close to the numbers being thrown around for power output and weight.
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I can tell you that 10-60 is a massive pain in the ass to find, out my way. I have to stock up when I find it (and that's usually only back at my dealer, 6 hours from here). I've checked anywhere and everywhere.
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I just saw this pic and it's not the V85 I saw in other ADV type pics. Did I miss something? This is a beauty!
(http://thumb.ibb.co/coBEdS/goose.jpg) (http://ibb.co/coBEdS)
Now that's a fair pretty machine ... :cheesy:
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So you're calling your posts thin air.
Ok, agreed. [emoji39]
Look, I get that your little outbursts probably come from a place of hurt feelings over what you perceive to be criticism of V7s, a machine you own. When you're a kid, there's nothing worse than having someone criticize something you like; but, we get over that as we age. That also means it's preferable to stop throwing the toys out of the pram and make stuff up out of whole cloth in arguments; facts work better. Cool, calm, collected. Repeat.
My final on this is that it's best not to bother with what anyone says about whatever you own or your tastes; get to a place where you're happy and confident in your choices, even if you're a big guy on a small bike.
I'm even going to ride a V7 tomorrow as I like them, and as I want to see what the fuss is about.
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Look, I get that your little outbursts probably come from a place of hurt feelings over what you perceive to be criticism of V7s, a machine you own. When you're a kid, there's nothing worse than having someone criticize something you like; but, we get over that as we age. That also means it's preferable to stop throwing the toys out of the pram and make stuff up out of whole cloth in arguments; facts work better. Cool, calm, collected. Repeat.
My final on this is that it's best not to bother with what anyone says about whatever you own or your tastes; get to a place where you're happy and confident in your choices, even if you're a big guy on a small bike.
I'm even going to ride a V7 tomorrow as I like them, and as I want to see what the fuss is about.
I really don't know what you're going on about as I've not had a single outburst, nor do I particularly care much about anyone's opinion of a V7 (be it the Racer or my Stone).
I often talk about how my V7 is the slowest, smallest, and arguably cheapest bike I own, but it matters not since I enjoy it so much.
I just think it's funny the fuss a few here seem to be stirring over semantics, taste, and a whole category of bikes that are largely irrelevant to what I enjoy.
But have at it.
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Might be time to put this one to rest fellas , it has bogged down into a morass of personal slights and since we literally aren't learning anything new ...
Dusty
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Might be time to put this one to rest fellas , it has bogged down into a morass of personal slights and since we literally aren't learning anything new ...
Dusty
Indeed; Kev m, here's my extended hand--'tis really a buncha nonsense. I'll buy you a dram tonight, though, given our distance, I'll have to drink it myself. What's your preference?
And, as noted, I'll report back on the V7 I'm riding tomorrow.
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Indeed; Kev m, here's my extended hand--'tis really a buncha nonsense. I'll buy you a dram tonight, though, given our distance, I'll have to drink it myself. What's your preference?
And, as noted, I'll report back on the V7 I'm riding tomorrow.
It's all good here my friend.
No offense taken or meant.
Ride safe,
Kev
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As long as you're buyin'.............
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Oh come on guys really, you're gonna bury the hatchet now just when it was about to get good!
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Oh come on guys really, you're gonna bury the hatchet now just when it was about to get good!
Yes they do :thumb:
Dusty
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Oh come on guys really, you're gonna bury the hatchet now just when it was about to get good!
Not for nothing, but was anyone actually upset? I thought this was just friendly banter and a lot of semantics?!?
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It's all good here my friend.
No offense taken or meant.
Ride safe,
Kev
Well, whaddaya havin'?
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As long as you're buyin'.............
Hey, if I end up buying all you guys drinks in absentia and drinking them all myself, I'll get hammered beyond all reason. I'd have to park the Sport 1100 and take the V7 home (no, geez, just kidding!) :boozing:
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I'm of the same mind with who ever mentioned the thought of an updated V11 series. I've always lusted after the Sport, Le Mans, and Scura designs...
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I just saw this pic and it's not the V85 I saw in other ADV type pics. Did I miss something? This is a beauty!
(http://thumb.ibb.co/coBEdS/goose.jpg) (http://ibb.co/coBEdS)
I can picture that with a V11 LeMans fairing on it. Very nice, indeed!
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Well, whaddaya havin'?
About 3 hours of martial arts teaching and training, but around 9:00 pm I'll pop open a Guinness draft can!
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As a dinosaur old fashioned owner, I refuse to own any Guzzi that uses anything but 20w/50. :cool:
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In theory it made so much seeming sense. MG was retro before mustaches and dress boots on motorcycles became fashionable; thus, them focusing on what they have always done well (cruisers and retro) would, on paper, seem the right move, or at least a financially smart one. But motorcycle sales are declining overall and conversely, there has been a kind of explosion in the retro field. No longer is it just someone choosing between a V7 and/or a Bonnie. There are not 1, but 2 XSR versions now, a host of Duc Scramblers, too many 9T versions to count, a new Kawi �retro�. Now I doubt there are many folks out there choosing directly between a 9T and a V7 but what I�m saying is that overall, I dunno if this is a niche field anymore. It�s not. The competition is more fierce than it has ever been.
This reminds me of the beer market. Overall, sales are in decline - US, UK, wherever. However, there is a part of the market in growth - hipster, cool, authentic - in beer terms, craft. Even in craft beer, there is oversupply: too many niche brewers chasing the ball. Who wins out in the long run?
I don't know, but I do know...the V7 is a great bike.
Beerman
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And, while I'm on beer (NGC alert) I've just come back from a 'fact finding mission' to the US. Accepting that the best beer is brewed here in the UK, I found some amazing 'craft' beers...Shipyard (Portland, Maine) and Founders (Grand Rapids) stood out for me.
Sorry for straying off pitch, but as I point out above there are similarities between the beer market and the motorcycle market (which may have gone unnoticed....)
Beerman
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Indeed; Kev m, here's my extended hand--'tis really a buncha nonsense. I'll buy you a dram tonight, though, given our distance, I'll have to drink it myself. What's your preference?
And, as noted, I'll report back on the V7 I'm riding tomorrow.
I'll take Kev's dram, Macallan 12 year old is good enough. :boozing:
But if you want to splurge, I won't stop ya. :evil:
carry on. fisticuff per marquis of queensbury. no weapons pleaz.
Colossal Head, turn it up.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fe/Colossal_Head_-_Los_Lobos.jpg/220px-Colossal_Head_-_Los_Lobos.jpg)
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I was just talking to Don, he was in Italy at the Piaggio deal:
He has no idea what is in the V85. Might be a flux capacitor. I think they might want to take us back to 1921?
The 1100 is being redesigned because it won't make Euro emissions. Who thinks a 50 that about a 50 year old engine. shocking.
The guy that HAD the scooter store in town was yacking with Don. The former scooter guy said that there is a market for scooters. Don says he'll sell Vespas because he works on a lot of scooters now.
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And, while I'm on beer (NGC alert) I've just come back from a 'fact finding mission' to the US. Accepting that the best beer is brewed here in the UK, I found some amazing 'craft' beers...Shipyard (Portland, Maine) and Founders (Grand Rapids) stood out for me.
Beerman
Point of order: The American microbrew explosion over the last 20 years has completely changed brewing with all sorts of innovation, like non-traditional flavors in beers, using bourbon barrels for aging, etc., with Americans dominant in world brewing competitions for years now.
Funny little fact, that. In my smallish Seattle neighborhood, Ballard, we have 15 microbreweries alone; but check the stats for US cities generally! It's really quite mad.
http://www.washingtonbeerblog.com/seattle-has-the-most-breweries-of-any-city-in-the-usa/ (http://www.washingtonbeerblog.com/seattle-has-the-most-breweries-of-any-city-in-the-usa/)
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The V7 Sport was near or at the top of the pile of fast bikes when it came out in 1971, and had significantly more power than a current V7, with 70-72 BHP. There was very little faster or sportier than a V7 Sport in 1971, and they also had a very healthy racing history. A V7 Sport would definitely see off any modern V7 in both acceleration and top speed with a real 125 MPH on offer. The current V7's design brief has nothing in common with the V7 Sport; a faint echo is all. Current V7s are nice bikes, but, are MG's entry-level vs. the V7 Sport, which was MG's top-of-the-line in '71-'74.
Oh my aching sides! 70-72HP from a V7S? In what universe!? :laugh:
On what makes a bike 'Good'? Just because something is popular doesn't automatically make it good any more than something being unpopular makes things 'Bad'.
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MG has obviously been run very carefully by smart Piaggio managers and bean counters over the last 13 years, as careful, inexpensive development and niche targeting has created a popular bike for beginners (and hipsters), the V7 series, and the Cali series for cruiser folk. V7s are very good looking retro bikes, but, they are beginner's bikes, as created by MG. Me, no way my 6'1"+ self will own one of these tiny 50-HP machines. A fella needs passing power!
Nor am I into 750+ LB. cruisers, I have zero use for them. But, again, the Calis and offspring are beautifully designed, engineered, and built bikes; just not for me.
The Griso was truly inspired and certainly competitive with others, as are the current V7s and Cali ranges, proving MG certainly knows how to build bikes competitive in today's market.
MG was not a budget brand, nor is it now; comments to that effect are in error. MG is, in fact, a premium brand, as the quality of the current bikes evidence; Piaggio would bristly strongly at MG being thought of as a budget maker of weird bikes for oddballs, as model ranges over the last ten years prove. The build quality of Guzzis over the last many years has been terrific, better than most, especially the likes of BMW. And, original Eldos, Ambassadors, V7s, Le Manses, were not cheap budget bikes, and did several important things better than most other brands; and some worse.
Thus, it will take little for the a revamped mill for a new Griso--hopefully watercooled--to become the basis for a proper Le Mans. The only reason it hasn't happened yet is that Piaggio--again--is running MG carefully, with en eye on the bottom line.
Finally, the only reason CARC MGs (Griso, Stelvio) have been subject to discounts over the last years is their age and general uncompetitiveness; Piaggio/MG left them on the counter too long.
So I have to differ with the view that the V7 is a beginner bike only. I’ve been riding over 20 years and have had a multitude of bikes in that time. Currently, I have a V11 Le Mans Tenni, a Stelvio and a V7II - and you know which bike is my go to? The V7. It’s an easy bike to ride, can tour, does everything well and has fantastic range. Is it blistering fast? No. I’m 50 years old, weight 225 and 6’2”. It’s almost perfect in my opinion.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Thread drift aside, when speaking of Moto Guzzi's future, I'm surprised no one has mentioned this:
(http://www.piaggiogroup.com/sites/piaggiocorpd7/files/styles/gallery/public/carousels_images/motoplex_hong_kong_01.jpg?itok=ESG0GcKs)
http://www.piaggiogroup.com/en/archive/press/piaggio-group-continues-international-development-distribution-network (http://www.piaggiogroup.com/en/archive/press/piaggio-group-continues-international-development-distribution-network)
While I understand that this "boutique" concept is the bane of many on this board, it's well established that Guzzis tend to languish in the typical multi-brand Powersports Superstore, and the Guzzi-only shop is all but unviable.
Like it or not, a large factor in the motorcycle market is image, and for as long as I've been a Guzzi owner (15 yrs) Guzzi has had an image problem. Namely, that people have never heard of them. Everyone knows the drill - Yes, it's a V-twin mounted sideways - No, it's not Chinese - No, they've been around since 1921 - No, there aren't any dealers around here.
The Italian-bred motorcycle experience is a concept that has value, but has been poorly expressed by Guzzi, at least in the US.
Sprinkle a few more of these Motoplex flagships around the country and trade on the combined name recognition of the stablemates. Establish Guzzi as an aspirational yet attainable brand. Claim some mindshare and that will get traffic flowing into the local shops beyond their orbit.
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Point of order: The American microbrew explosion over the last 20 years has completely changed brewing with all sorts of innovation, like non-traditional flavors in beers, using bourbon barrels for aging, etc., with Americans dominant in world brewing competitions for years now.
Point of order: I didn't say that the Americans didn't win brewing competitions. I just said that the best beer is brewed here in the UK. I'm always willing to go on further fact finding missions which support my hypothesis.
As it happens, there are indeed some wonderful beers in the US - and at strengths that you would never find here in the UK ('loopy juice', we'd call it). I have been to Seattle, and I agree, the craft beer scene is fantastic. How many of them make money is another question.
Cheers,
Beerman :boozing:
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Oh my aching sides! 70-72HP from a V7S? In what universe!? :laugh:
On what makes a bike 'Good'? Just because something is popular doesn't automatically make it good any more than something being unpopular makes things 'Bad'.
The V7 Sport's supposed "70-72 hp" was "brochure horsepower", actual was more like 50 bhp.
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Are these Motoplex stores factory owned and run or franchises? I can see them being successful High Street shops in European cities.
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Point of order: I didn't say that the Americans didn't win brewing competitions. I just said that the best beer is brewed here in the UK. I'm always willing to go on further fact finding missions which support my hypothesis.
As it happens, there are indeed some wonderful beers in the US - and at strengths that you would never find here in the UK ('loopy juice', we'd call it). I have been to Seattle, and I agree, the craft beer scene is fantastic. How many of them make money is another question.
Cheers,
Beerman :boozing:
Haha, well, I'm a German and Belgian beer feller myself; many American brewmasters tend to hop their beers too much, though we have an excellent British-style beer brewery here in Seattle, MachineHouse Brewing: http://www.machinehousebrewery.com (http://www.machinehousebrewery.com)
We had a 13% bourbon barrel-aged Tripel-style brew a few weeks ago. Deadly.
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Are these Motoplex stores factory owned and run or franchises? I can see them being successful High Street shops in European cities.
Best as I can tell, it's a bit of both. I get the impression that stores in newly-launched (or re-launched) markets are company owned, with subsequent stores being franchises.
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On the beer tangent, what i find troublesome in the American micro-revolution is the tendency for everyone to try and make everything over the top.
What is too often lost is the subtle and delicate balance of malt and hops that I think truly define an outstanding beer.
But like anything it's about tastes.
On the corporate stores, they can be a blessing or a curse and the devil's in the details. But as always I remain optimistic that some would be good for the brand.