Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: not-fishing on March 06, 2018, 07:23:00 PM
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I've been dreaming of 'Hacking a Gaddafi project for a few years now......
(https://images.craigslist.org/00U0U_fo2Tw7jyyw1_600x450.jpg) https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/mcy/d/2001-moto-guzzi-quota-1100-es/6520111836.html
It's only an hour away and a price that I can afford $ 2,700
But I saw the license plate and checked the back fees
Transaction Date: March 06, 2018
Type of Calculation: Nonresident Vehicle Registration
Type of Vehicle: Motorcycle
Model Year: 2001
Motive Power: Gas
First Operated in CA: July 05, 2015
Acquired/Purchase Date: March 07, 2018
Acquired From: Private Party
Purchase Price: $2,700.00
Use/Sales Tax Credit: $0.00
County: Sacramento
Zip Code: 95630
Current Registration: 53.00
Current California Highway Patrol: 24.00
Current Vehicle License Fee: 18.00
Current Motorcycle Safety Fee: 2.00
Current County Service Authority for Freeway Emergencies Fee: 1.00
Current Fingerprint ID Fee: 1.00
Current Abandoned Vehicle Fee: 1.00
Current Air Quality Management District: 6.00
Alt Fuel/Tech Reg Fee: 9.00
1st Prior Year Registration: 43.00
1st Prior Year California Highway Patrol: 24.00
1st Prior Year Motorcycle Safety Fee: 2.00
1st Prior Year County Service Authority for Freeway Emergencies Fee: 1.00
1st Prior Year Fingerprint ID Fee: 1.00
Current Vehicle Theft/DUI 2: 2.00
1st Prior Year Vehicle Theft/DUI 2: 2.00
2nd Prior Year Vehicle Theft/DUI 2: 2.00
1st Prior Year Abandoned Vehicle: 1.00
1st Prior Year Air Quality Management Dist: 6.00
2nd Prior Year Registration: 43.00
2nd Prior Year California Highway Patrol: 24.00
2nd Prior Year Motorcycle Safety Fee: 2.00
2nd Prior Year County Service Authority for Freeway Emergencies Fee: 1.00
2nd Prior Year Fingerprint ID Fee: 1.00
2nd Prior Year Abandoned Vehicle: 1.00
2nd Prior Year Air Quality Management Dist: 6.00
Use/Sales Tax: 216.00
Motorcycle Cross Index: 1.00
Non-Resident Original Service Fee: 21.00
Reflectorized License Plate Fee: 1.00
Current Registration Penalty: 30.00
CHP Penalty: 180.00
Current Vehicle License Fee Penalty: 7.00
1st Prior Year Registration Penalty: 50.00
2nd Prior Year Registration Penalty: 100.00
Use/Sales Tax Penalty: 22.00
Total Registration Fees: $667.00
Total Use/Sales Tax (includes credit paid to another state): $238.00
Grand Total Registration Fees: $905.00
I'm just going to have to look out of state unless I get lucky and it's been non-op'd
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Get him to knock a few bucks off the price (split the difference ). In good shape it's a $3,000 bike tops.
I've had two ( still have one of them). Still one of my favorite bikes ever.
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Living in a safe, clean, solvent, well-organized state like California, with beautiful weather an' all, isn't free, you know. Part of the price of poker, and it's going up! :thumb:
Lannis
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Living in a safe, clean, solvent, well-organized state like California, with beautiful weather an' all, isn't free, you know.
Lannis
it almost sounds like your ready to move there Lannis..
the bike looks well... loved.. are you saying your gonna put a hack on it, not fishing? I'd research those costs first.
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This is all because he didn't turn his tags in? Must be a boat load of unregisterable bikes/car out there.
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Yeah, the "sunshine tax" is pretty heavy in California. The plate stays with the bike, along with the fees.
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So how do you keep/store a unregistered and uninsured vehicle for a period of time in California?
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This is all because he didn't turn his tags in? Must be a boat load of unregisterable bikes/car out there.
You're supposed to file a "non-operable" status with the DMV in California if the vehicle is not registered and not being driven.
If you don't file the "non-operable" status, and don't renew your tags, then the fees accrue and have to be paid to get the vehicle back on the road once you (or the next owner) decide to do that.
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As a young man, for many years I dreamed of living in California. Beautiful weather, geographically stunning. But not so much, these days. Now, if I ever won the lottery, I'd move to the Nevada side of Lake Tahoe somewhere and just visit all those great California roads. It's a great place to ride, I just don't want to live there anymore. I guess they call it the "golden state" because if you live there, they take all your gold!
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I guess they call it the "golden state" because if you live there, they take all your gold!
And I thought it was for all that dry, dead grass that was getting ready to catch fire...
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Looks like its coming home with me :thumb: Thanks to this post I saved a lot of nickels. I will post the real pictures later.
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Congrats! Once you get used to it, you will love it. feel free to ask any questions once you get her home.
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Cool,I use mine around town,2 up trips,off road,it does it all.
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Looks like its coming home with me :thumb: Thanks to this post I saved a lot of nickels. I will post the real pictures later.
IZAT you Not Fishing or did you snatch it away from him, CT?
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So if you don't live in California a bike like that would be a bargain.
Move it out of California and register it.
Or have I got it all wrong?
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So if you don't live in California a bike like that would be a bargain.
Move it out of California and register it.
Or have I got it all wrong?
They've got you covered on that. You have to be a resident of where you're titling the bike in MOST states ...
Lannis
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They've got you covered on that. You have to be a resident of where you're titling the bike in MOST states ...
Lannis
But what if you truly are a resident of another state (or country), and purchase one of these bikes that have outstanding fees and penalties amassed by the previous owner in California? Are they then waived, or do they follow you somehow?
Cheers,
Shaun
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It follows the bike. If the VIN is in their system, it stays there so do the monies owed to the state. You can't get away from it unless you register in another state and keep it there.
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You can register it here in OK and keep it at my house... :grin:
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It follows the bike. If the VIN is in their system, it stays there so do the monies owed to the state. You can't get away from it unless you register in another state and keep it there.
Okay, so it only remains a problem if you try at some future point to register the bike in California again.? Interesting. Seems like folks in other states could get some good deals on CA motorcycles if they are reasonably sure they will never move there.
Thanks,
Shaun
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But what if you truly are a resident of another state (or country), and purchase one of these bikes that have outstanding fees and penalties amassed by the previous owner in California? Are they then waived, or do they follow you somehow?
Cheers,
Shaun
No way. The local DMV whether it be in New Zealand or in West Virginia isn't going to hold you liable for California's back fees. They'll make sure they get THEIRS though ... I just bought a motorcycle trailer. When it was shipped to me, the company in South Carolina charged me the South Carolina trailer titling tax to get it out of the state. When I took the Certificate of Origin to get a Virginia title, the VA DMV subtracted what I had already paid to SC in titling tax, and I only had to pay the difference between the SC and VA amounts. But if I didn't have evidence of paying the SC tax, I would have paid all the VA tax.
If I brought in a California document showing I owed CA tax, VA isn't going to make me pay that, they're going to make me pay the total VA amount. God help us if other states start making us liable for the **** that goes on in California .... :huh: :huh: :shocked: :violent1:
Lannis
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No way. The local DMV whether it be in New Zealand or in West Virginia isn't going to hold you liable for California's back fees. They'll make sure they get THEIRS though ... I just bought a motorcycle trailer. When it was shipped to me, the company in South Carolina charged me the South Carolina trailer titling tax to get it out of the state. When I took the Certificate of Origin to get a Virginia title, the VA DMV subtracted what I had already paid to SC in titling tax, and I only had to pay the difference between the SC and VA amounts. But if I didn't have evidence of paying the SC tax, I would have paid all the VA tax.
If I brought in a California document showing I owed CA tax, VA isn't going to make me pay that, they're going to make me pay the total VA amount. God help us if other states start making us liable for the **** that goes on in California .... :huh: :huh: :shocked: :violent1:
Lannis
Makes sense, thanks. I wonder what happens if you get pulled over 5 years down the road when visiting California?
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Cali is strict on taxes. If they catch you ; they will tax you.
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California has no proof of when a vehicle left the state, and it is not the out of state buyers problem if the California based seller didn't report the sale to anybody... which in fact he has no legal obligation to do, especially when selling to an out of state buyer. Ergo, once the bike is registered in another state the Californa back registration problem is gone.
Worst case, you take it to another state and claim you bought it recently with a lost title and have no idea where it may have been previously registered, or when. That introduces some hassle but as long as it isn't reported stolen, they'll eventually register it and tax the transaction on the sales price you report. I'd suggest that fair market sales value for a 20 year old Quota is very low. Regardless of title or registration status, I generally like to buy bikes from out of state private parties.
America is a great place - the states compete for your tax dollars, they don't often cooperate or conspire to collect state taxes.
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California has no proof of when a vehicle left the state, and it is not the out of state buyers problem if the California based seller didn't report the sale to anybody... which in fact he has no legal obligation to do, especially when selling to an out of state buyer. Ergo, once the bike is registered in another state the Californa back registration problem is gone.
Worst case, you take it to another state and claim you bought it recently with a lost title and have no idea where it may have been previously registered, or when. That introduces some hassle but as long as it isn't reported stolen, they'll eventually register it and tax the transaction on the sales price you report. I'd suggest that fair market sales value for a 20 year old Quota is very low. Regardless of title or registration status, I generally like to buy bikes from out of state private parties.
America is a great place - the states compete for your tax dollars, they don't often cooperate or conspire to collect state taxes.
Actually, according to California law (CVC 5900) the seller has 5 days to report the sale or transfer. Here's the whole thing:
5900.
(a) Whenever the owner of a vehicle registered under this code sells or transfers his or her title or interest in, and delivers the possession of, the vehicle to another, the owner shall, within five calendar days, notify the department of the sale or transfer giving the date thereof, the name and address of the owner and of the transferee, and the description of the vehicle that is required in the appropriate form provided for that purpose by the department.
Although I can't find it in the Code - I suspect that when the vehicle is sold to an out of state buyer, California will attempt to collect the past due fees from the seller.
jdg
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Actually, according to California law (CVC 5900) the seller has 5 days to report the sale or transfer. Here's the whole thing:
Although I can't find it in the Code - I suspect that when the vehicle is sold to an out of state buyer, California will attempt to collect the past due fees from the seller.
jdg
I have no idea regarding the intent of California to pursue collecting fees from an out of state purchaser (good luck with that) but the idea behind reporting the sale is two-fold. First, the state is alerted to the sale and expects the new owner to register the vehicle (collecting taxes along the way) and second, it protects the seller from liability should the buyer do something stupid while the vehicle remains in the seller's name. As a seller, you definitely want to report the sale if you live in CA. (at least back when I lived there, but it's been 15 years now)
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Although I can't find it in the Code - I suspect that when the vehicle is sold to an out of state buyer, California will attempt to collect the past due fees from the seller.
jdg
They keep sending the bills, but given that you dont own the bike and will never need to register it again, it makes no difference to you whether you tell them or not. They cannot collect fees in isolation, they are collected in relation to reregistering the bike in their particular state. Meanwhile the buyer has left their state, registered it elsewhere and has no interest in any of the above.
That said, if you as the seller dont like throwing away renewal notices for a bike you dont own, you can mail in a sale report with any out of state/country name and address. The state cannot prove who you sold it to, they don't care if it was out of state, and you as a private party do not control the accuracy of the name and address that the buyer may have provided in making the purchase.
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Interesting. Here, they would collect the fees when you tried to register/renew any other vehicle. Same as they do with traffic fines. If you don't pay, you can't drive anything.
Local roles, for sure!
Cheers,
Shaun
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Interesting. Here, they would collect the fees when you tried to register/renew any other vehicle. Same as they do with traffic fines. If you don't pay, you can't drive anything.
Local roles, for sure!
Cheers,
Shaun
Yep; here, motor vehicle stuff (registering cars, titling them, etc) is totally a state function ... what happens in Kentucky stays in Kentucky.
Now, if I owe the state of Virginia money for an uncollected fine or something, and I file my Virginia tax return, they'll take what I owe out of any refund I might have coming. But if I owe the money in Michigan, Virginia doesn't care ....
Lannis
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Which is why I no longer choose to live anywhere except the US, it's based on facts that affect me in tangible ways.
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I too saw the bike on CL and it is nearby. Have you contacted the seller? Just because the tags are out of date does not mean he has not registered it Non-Operative, which would eliminate all the penalties. You would still have to pay the back fees, but no penalty. Would cut registration cost down considerably. Love all the talk about tax evasion schemes, like Leona Helmsley once said, taxes that's for those little people. Also, it is listed in Tiburon one of the most wealthy towns in wealthy Marin County. It was listed recently at 2500, my guess 2k would get that bike if you are serious. Happy to take a look at it for you, I talked myself out if it, my guess you did the same.
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Yep; here, motor vehicle stuff (registering cars, titling them, etc) is totally a state function ... what happens in Kentucky stays in Kentucky.
Now, if I owe the state of Virginia money for an uncollected fine or something, and I file my Virginia tax return, they'll take what I owe out of any refund I might have coming. But if I owe the money in Michigan, Virginia doesn't care ....
Lannis
Same here in Canada. It's a provincial program to register vehicles, and BC won't collect on behalf of Alberta for instance. In my last post, I was referring more to people who live in California, and owe penalties on one vehicle while still being able to register others. In BC, if you owe anything on any vehicle (fines, etc.), they will require you to pay that before you can register/insure any vehicle, renew your license, etc. I'm sure it wouldn't be initially popular, but if California simply linked charges to the owner, they could clear everything up in short order. As soon as you went to do anything with the state, it would bring things current, advise of vehicles sold, pay any penalties before they accrue too much, etc. Seems like it would be better in the long term, and would avoid these excessive accumulated charges. Even better if they accompanied this change with an amnesty period so people wouldn't be burdened unexpectedly. Just my perspective, of course. :bike-037:
Cheers,
Shaun
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I'm sure it wouldn't be initially popular, but if California simply linked charges to the owner, they could clear everything up in short order. As soon as you went to do anything with the state, it would bring things current, advise of vehicles sold, pay any penalties before they accrue too much, etc. Seems like it would be better in the long term, and would avoid these excessive accumulated charges. .....
Cheers,
Shaun
Everyone is moving toward that now; looks like the limitation is the linkage of the various databases. For example, in Virginia the "insurance" database is linked with the "registration" database, so that you have to bring your insurance up to date before you can get a vehicle on the road. Insurance and unfulfilled liens are tied to titling and registration; unpaid alimony, child support, fines, and back taxes get sorted out when you file your State tax return.
Seems (and maybe is) a bit "big brotherish" but I don't see how we can really kick about it. If you owe it, you owe it ....
Lannis
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Seems (and maybe is) a bit "big brotherish" but I don't see how we can really kick about it. If you owe it, you owe it ....
Lannis
Unfortunately for those collecting taxes in California or any other US state, if you don't want to pay their taxes or work within their system, you can move property and/or your economic activity to another state and there is nothing they can do about it... because the United States was structured that way by design, including freedom to move anywhere without notice and no registered personal addresses, making the states compete for your business and ultimately limiting their power over you. Some states may choose to link all your state taxes into one database, some may realize that you often catch more bees with honey.
In spite of having paid something like $60K in combined US taxes last year, that makes me feel better. I do wish that my state would charge me individually for using the roads instead of charging me 12 times, once for each vehicle that isn't used simultaneously, for the same thing. Maybe when some state decides to enact a system like that, it'll put me over the edge in attracting my business!
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Unfortunately for those collecting taxes in California or any other US state, if you don't want to pay their taxes or work within their system, you can move property and/or your economic activity to another state and there is nothing they can do about it... because the United States was structured that way by design, including freedom to move anywhere without notice and no registered personal addresses, making the states compete for your business and ultimately limiting their power over you. Some states may choose to link all your state taxes into one database, some may realize that you often catch more bees with honey.
In spite of having paid something like $60K in combined US taxes last year, that makes me feel better. I do wish that my state would charge me individually for using the roads instead of charging me 12 times, once for each vehicle that isn't used simultaneously, for the same thing. Maybe when some state decides to enact a system like that, it'll put me over the edge in attracting my business!
I agree, and the point of my post was that WITHIN a state, they do a pretty thorough job of linking state-related stuff together, although they're not there yet.
BETWEEN states, the structure doesn't support that. No motivation for Idaho to worry about Florida's financial rules and problems ....
lannis
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Perhaps this is the first step - both Mass and NY, I noted when doing state income tax, now charge a sales tax based on income (for things bought over the internet). They have assumed or decided I buy untaxed stuff and therefor I should pay them. It is truly a small amount but it is in principle an unholy act of depravity - or at least an act of unsupported taxation. Hmmm, what if they find my motorcycle helmet and MGB steering wheel, will they assume I have the complete vehicles and tax me??
Obviously ,if this is deemed political please remove. Just ranting a bit.
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Hey, it's discussion. No problem. :thumb: Here's a thought and probably not original. I see California doing it. They could place a state tax lien on the title. For example, you take the bike over the state line and register/title in Arizona. Title is turned in for change over to AZ. AZ issues a registration. Your title is in process for verification from CA. Your title is held up because of a tax lien filed by the state DOT. Now you have a bike registered but no title. You can only clear it by paying CA DOT for the clearance.
Don't think it can't happened. The states have a reciprocal program with exchanging convicted felons. They also have reciprocal unemployment insurance claims procedures. All the states agree to issuing titles on vehicles. Driver's licenses are held up for clearances till you pay the the state that you're from.
While they may not collect it. They can cause you to have a "rash". :tongue:
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God bless NC. There ain’t but one reason I can see to ride to California and that’s to ride Highway #1. Now I have to admit I would love to do that someday:)
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Cautionary warning to those that would visit - the place can be addictive. I've lived in other places but have chosen to deal with the "sunshine taxes" until such time as I can no longer afford it.
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Hey, it's discussion. No problem. :thumb: Here's a thought and probably not original. I see California doing it. They could place a state tax lien on the title. For example, you take the bike over the state line and register/title in Arizona. Title is turned in for change over to AZ. AZ issues a registration. Your title is in process for verification from CA. Your title is held up because of a tax lien filed by the state DOT. Now you have a bike registered but no title. You can only clear it by paying CA DOT for the clearance. Don't think it can't happened.
Happily what you've described is the product of imagination, not USA reality. When you surrender an out of state vehicle title the new state doesn't "verify" it. Notifying the prior state of the export sale is done by the seller, who suffers no consequence if he does nothing. US states in this regard are no different than independent countries, and its equally true that when you import a vehicle to a US state from Mexico or an EU country, the state doesn't notify the foreign country.
The other comment above made me smile. It describes a happy, stable situation :wink: in which your entire driving license and vehicle registration portfolio would be frozen if you decide not to re-register one old motorcycle (or moped) while you work on it at home for a year, decide to turn it into a off road bike and never re-register it, or throw it in the dumpster. I think the better solution is to escape that kind of time wasting nonsense... in any way you can. Its not a good idea to have your life held hostage as a result of one past due vehicle registration for a vehicle that may not even exist any more.
As a side note, older vehicles in some US states do not have a title. When you buy one and move it to a state where a state title is required, its done based on an informal bill of sale from the previous owner.
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Get him to knock a few bucks off the price (split the difference ). In good shape it's a $3,000 bike tops.
I've had two ( still have one of them). Still one of my favorite bikes ever.
I like them too.
I think Roper said they can be a bastard to tune but may be wrong there.
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As a side note, older vehicles in some US states do not have a title. When you buy one and move it to a state where a state title is required, its done based on an informal bill of sale from the previous owner.
Yes, I know that. I worked in the Motor Vehicle Depart as a Vehicle Agent and then as an Inspector. All the state conformed to having titles issued for vehicles after 1972. Vehicles prior to that if the state that they came from only had registrations would need for bills of sale from prior owners. 2 at least in Arizona which followed California with only one bill of sale from the p.o., the current owner would have to post proof of a surety bond. YMMV per other states.
Some states have looser rules for getting a title on older vehicles that are acquired outside the normal "buy & sell" procedures. Again YMMV per state. Siabed was able to get a title on a dead V7 Sport from Idaho in WA state. YMMV again per the circumstances. He wouldn't in CA or Hawaii.
As for the other stuff in my post pertaining to monies owed to a state, not out of realm of possibility for California. I forgot payments for child support and DUI's. :tongue:
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Delivered to my house 1k.sweet project bike. slowly tearing it down, listing parts. Weld up broken exhaust. Having trouble finding tires. Would like street oriented,90/10. octipussy holly chit. Pcv?,Breather in the frame? I don't normally work on bikes.
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Some states have looser rules for getting a title on older vehicles that are acquired outside the normal "buy & sell" procedures. Again YMMV per state. Siabed was able to get a title on a dead V7 Sport from Idaho in WA state. YMMV again per the circumstances. He wouldn't in CA or Hawaii.
Based on personal experience in the not too distant past, it is fairly simple to title and register a motorcycle in California with no paperwork whatsoever. It does have to be inspected by the California Highway Patrol.
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Delivered to my house 1k.sweet project bike. slowly tearing it down, listing parts. Weld up broken exhaust. Having trouble finding tires. Would like street oriented,90/10. octipussy holly chit. Pcv?,Breather in the frame? I don't normally work on bikes.
Tires: Pirelli Scorpion Trail II
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One important reason to notify the DMV in California when you sell a vehicle is that the plates go with the vehicle. If the new owner has an accident you could be in trouble if you haven't notified the DMV.
In Colorado the plates stay with the seller. I once made the mistake of letting the buyer take them with the promise of returning them is a couple of days. He had an accident with my plates on the vehicle. Fortunately, I had a copy of the bill of sale with his signature, so I was able to clear things up relatively easily. I have since learned that you can legally drive a newly purchased vehicle in Colorado, without plates, but with a bill of sale, for 24 hours.
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Delivered to my house 1k.sweet project bike. slowly tearing it down, listing parts. Weld up broken exhaust. Having trouble finding tires. Would like street oriented,90/10. octipussy holly chit. Pcv?,Breather in the frame? I don't normally work on bikes.
Broken exhaust was common. Tires. Continental trail attacks. Trust me.. I had them on Darth Quota out in the mountains.. they were great. Breather in the frame is common on spine frames. This is Dr. John's dirt bike, and handling is much better than you expect from looking at it. The long travel suspension eats up expansion joints and rough roads. It's a great touring bike with all day comfort. As mentioned above.. tuning is "different."
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Based on personal experience in the not too distant past, it is fairly simple to title and register a motorcycle in California with no paperwork whatsoever. It does have to be inspected by the California Highway Patrol.
So you're saying an out of state vehicle can be registered with no paperwork in the state of California. I don't think so. What did you title and register?
"Requirements to Register a Nonresident Vehicle
An Application for Title or Registration (REG 343) form (PDF) completed and signed by all registered owners shown on the out-of-state registration or title. For leased vehicles, the signature of the lessor is required.
The last issued out-of-state title. When an out-of-state title is not surrendered to DMV, the California registration card is marked "Nontransferable" and a California title is not issued.
The last issued out-of-state registration certificate or current year renewal notice, for the current year, or a letter, fax, or wire from the last registration jurisdiction verifying the registered owners name(s) and the vehicle's last registration expiration date.
A Verification of Vehicle (REG 31) form (PDF) completed by an authorized DMV employee, law enforcement officer, or California-licensed vehicle verifier (no charge for vehicle verification at DMV offices)."
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/brochures/howto/htvr09#feesdue
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so you're saying an out of state vehicle can be registered with no paperwork in the state of California. I don't think so.
What I did was register a 1974 vehicle that had 'never been registered in any state', with no paperwork of any kind. Actually it had been registered in California once upon a time but before computerized records, and the CA title was lost by one of several unrecorded prior owners. This required first getting a temporary registration from the CA DMV, then driving the vehicle to the CHP for inspection (and stolen vehicle computer check of the VIN), then returning to the DMV and paying registration fees based on my statement of the purchase price. There were no issues.
By the way, AAA is your friend in figuring out the most expeditious way to get registration done :thumb: They were able to tell me that the DMV had no record of prior CA registration.
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If the bike had a registration and title in California then you wouldn't have to do the other steps in addition to a "normal" transfer.
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So did "Not Fishing" go buy this bike?
It isn't up on CL any more.
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So did "Not Fishing" go buy this bike?
It isn't up on CL any more.
The buyer posted a few posts ago..