Registration Blues - Quota

[not-fishing]

I've been dreaming of 'Hacking a Gaddafi project for a few years now......

  https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/mcy/d/2001-moto-guzzi-quota-1100-es/6520111836.html

It's only an hour away and a price that I can afford $ 2,700

But I saw the license plate and checked the back fees


Transaction Date:         March 06, 2018
Type of Calculation:         Nonresident Vehicle Registration
 
Type of Vehicle:         Motorcycle
Model Year:         2001
Motive Power:         Gas
 
First Operated in CA:         July 05, 2015
Acquired/Purchase Date:         March 07, 2018
Acquired From:         Private Party
Purchase Price:         $2,700.00
Use/Sales Tax Credit:         $0.00
 
County:         Sacramento
Zip Code:         95630
 
Current Registration:     53.00
Current California Highway Patrol:     24.00
Current Vehicle License Fee:     18.00
Current Motorcycle Safety Fee:     2.00
Current County Service Authority for Freeway Emergencies Fee:     1.00
Current Fingerprint ID Fee:     1.00
Current Abandoned Vehicle Fee:     1.00
Current Air Quality Management District:     6.00
Alt Fuel/Tech Reg Fee:     9.00
1st Prior Year Registration:     43.00
1st Prior Year California Highway Patrol:     24.00
1st Prior Year Motorcycle Safety Fee:     2.00
1st Prior Year County Service Authority for Freeway Emergencies Fee:     1.00
1st Prior Year Fingerprint ID Fee:     1.00
Current Vehicle Theft/DUI 2:     2.00
1st Prior Year Vehicle Theft/DUI 2:     2.00
2nd Prior Year Vehicle Theft/DUI 2:     2.00
1st Prior Year Abandoned Vehicle:     1.00
1st Prior Year Air Quality Management Dist:     6.00
2nd Prior Year Registration:     43.00
2nd Prior Year California Highway Patrol:     24.00
2nd Prior Year Motorcycle Safety Fee:     2.00
2nd Prior Year County Service Authority for Freeway Emergencies Fee:     1.00
2nd Prior Year Fingerprint ID Fee:     1.00
2nd Prior Year Abandoned Vehicle:     1.00
2nd Prior Year Air Quality Management Dist:     6.00
Use/Sales Tax:     216.00
Motorcycle Cross Index:     1.00
Non-Resident Original Service Fee:     21.00
Reflectorized License Plate Fee:     1.00
Current Registration Penalty:     30.00
CHP Penalty:     180.00
Current Vehicle License Fee Penalty:     7.00
1st Prior Year Registration Penalty:     50.00
2nd Prior Year Registration Penalty:     100.00
Use/Sales Tax Penalty:     22.00
 
Total Registration Fees:     $667.00
 
Total Use/Sales Tax (includes credit paid to another state):     $238.00
 
Grand Total Registration Fees:     $905.00

I'm just going to have to look out of state unless I get lucky and it's been non-op'd

[Turin]

Get him to knock a few bucks off the price (split the difference ). In good shape it's a $3,000 bike tops.

I've had two ( still have one of them). Still one of my favorite bikes ever.

[Lannis]

Living in a safe, clean, solvent, well-organized state like California, with beautiful weather an' all, isn't free, you know.   Part of the price of poker, and it's going up!   

Lannis

[fotoguzzi]

Living in a safe, clean, solvent, well-organized state like California, with beautiful weather an' all, isn't free, you know.   
Lannis

it almost sounds like your ready to move there Lannis..

the bike looks well... loved.. are you saying your gonna put a hack on it, not fishing? I'd research those costs first.

[hauto]

This is all because he didn't turn his tags in? Must be a boat load of unregisterable bikes/car out there.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Yeah, the "sunshine tax" is pretty heavy in California. The plate stays with the bike, along with the fees.

[hauto]

So how do you keep/store a unregistered and uninsured vehicle for a period of time in California?

[rocker59]

This is all because he didn't turn his tags in? Must be a boat load of unregisterable bikes/car out there.

You're supposed to file a "non-operable" status with the DMV in California if the vehicle is not registered and not being driven.

If you don't file the "non-operable" status, and don't renew your tags, then the fees accrue and have to be paid to get the vehicle back on the road once you (or the next owner) decide to do that.

[Motormike]

As a young man, for many years I dreamed of living in California. Beautiful weather, geographically stunning.  But not so much, these days. Now, if I ever won the lottery, I'd move to the Nevada side of Lake Tahoe somewhere and just visit all those great California roads. It's a great place to ride, I just don't want to live there anymore.  I guess they call it the "golden state" because if you live there, they take all your gold!

[rocker59]

I guess they call it the "golden state" because if you live there, they take all your gold!

And I thought it was for all that dry, dead grass that was getting ready to catch fire...

[cttruetec]

Looks  like its coming home with me Thanks to this post I saved a lot of nickels. I will post the real pictures later.

[Turin]

Congrats! Once you get used to it, you will love it. feel free to ask any questions once you get her home.

[hauto]

Cool,I use mine around town,2 up trips,off road,it does it all.

[fotoguzzi]

Looks  like its coming home with me Thanks to this post I saved a lot of nickels. I will post the real pictures later.

IZAT you Not Fishing or did you snatch it away from him, CT?

[Kiwi_Roy]

So if you don't live in California a bike like that would be a bargain.
Move it out of California and register it.
Or have I got it all wrong?

[Lannis]

So if you don't live in California a bike like that would be a bargain.
Move it out of California and register it.
Or have I got it all wrong?

They've got you covered on that.   You have to be a resident of where you're titling the bike in MOST states ...

Lannis

[smdl]

They've got you covered on that.   You have to be a resident of where you're titling the bike in MOST states ...

Lannis

But what if you truly are a resident of another state (or country), and purchase one of these bikes that have outstanding fees and penalties amassed by the previous owner in California?  Are they then waived, or do they follow you somehow?

Cheers,
Shaun

[Tom]

It follows the bike.  If the VIN is in their system, it stays there so do the monies owed to the state.  You can't get away from it unless you register in another state and keep it there. 

[twowings]

You can register it here in OK and keep it at my house...

[smdl]

It follows the bike.  If the VIN is in their system, it stays there so do the monies owed to the state.  You can't get away from it unless you register in another state and keep it there.

Okay, so it only remains a problem if you try at some future point to register the bike in California again.?  Interesting.  Seems like folks in other states could get some good deals on CA motorcycles if they are reasonably sure they will never move there.

Thanks,
Shaun

[Lannis]

But what if you truly are a resident of another state (or country), and purchase one of these bikes that have outstanding fees and penalties amassed by the previous owner in California?  Are they then waived, or do they follow you somehow?

Cheers,
Shaun

No way.   The local DMV whether it be in New Zealand or in West Virginia isn't going to hold you liable for California's back fees.   They'll make sure they get THEIRS though ... I just bought a motorcycle trailer.   When it was shipped to me, the company in South Carolina charged me the South Carolina trailer titling tax to get it out of the state.   When I took the Certificate of Origin to get a Virginia title, the VA DMV subtracted what I had already paid to SC in titling tax, and I only had to pay the difference between the SC and VA amounts.   But if I didn't have evidence of paying the SC tax, I would have paid all the VA tax.

If I brought in a California document showing I owed CA tax, VA isn't going to make me pay that, they're going to make me pay the total VA amount.   God help us if other states start making us liable for the **** that goes on in California ....           

Lannis

[smdl]

No way.   The local DMV whether it be in New Zealand or in West Virginia isn't going to hold you liable for California's back fees.   They'll make sure they get THEIRS though ... I just bought a motorcycle trailer.   When it was shipped to me, the company in South Carolina charged me the South Carolina trailer titling tax to get it out of the state.   When I took the Certificate of Origin to get a Virginia title, the VA DMV subtracted what I had already paid to SC in titling tax, and I only had to pay the difference between the SC and VA amounts.   But if I didn't have evidence of paying the SC tax, I would have paid all the VA tax.

If I brought in a California document showing I owed CA tax, VA isn't going to make me pay that, they're going to make me pay the total VA amount.   God help us if other states start making us liable for the **** that goes on in California ....           

Lannis

Makes sense, thanks.  I wonder what happens if you get pulled over 5 years down the road when visiting California?

[Kent in Upstate NY]

Cali is strict on taxes. If they catch you ; they will tax you.

[Tusayan]

California has no proof of when a vehicle left the state, and it is not the out of state buyers problem if the California based seller didn't report the sale to anybody...  which in fact he has no legal obligation to do, especially when selling to an out of state buyer.  Ergo, once the bike is registered in another state the Californa back registration problem is gone.

Worst case, you take it to another state and claim you bought it recently with a lost title and have no idea where it may have been previously registered, or when.  That introduces some hassle but as long as it isn't reported stolen, they'll eventually register it and tax the transaction on the sales price you report.  I'd suggest that fair market sales value for a 20 year old Quota is very low.  Regardless of title or registration status, I generally like to buy bikes from out of state private parties.

America is a great place - the states compete for your tax dollars, they don't often cooperate or conspire to collect state taxes.

[jdgretz]

California has no proof of when a vehicle left the state, and it is not the out of state buyers problem if the California based seller didn't report the sale to anybody...  which in fact he has no legal obligation to do, especially when selling to an out of state buyer.  Ergo, once the bike is registered in another state the Californa back registration problem is gone.

Worst case, you take it to another state and claim you bought it recently with a lost title and have no idea where it may have been previously registered, or when.  That introduces some hassle but as long as it isn't reported stolen, they'll eventually register it and tax the transaction on the sales price you report.  I'd suggest that fair market sales value for a 20 year old Quota is very low.  Regardless of title or registration status, I generally like to buy bikes from out of state private parties.

America is a great place - the states compete for your tax dollars, they don't often cooperate or conspire to collect state taxes.

Actually, according to California law (CVC 5900) the seller has 5 days to report the sale or transfer.  Here's the whole thing:

5900. 
(a) Whenever the owner of a vehicle registered under this code sells or transfers his or her title or interest in, and delivers the possession of, the vehicle to another, the owner shall, within five calendar days, notify the department of the sale or transfer giving the date thereof, the name and address of the owner and of the transferee, and the description of the vehicle that is required in the appropriate form provided for that purpose by the department.

Although I can't find it in the Code - I suspect that when the vehicle is sold to an out of state buyer, California will attempt to collect the past due fees from the seller.

jdg

[pmillar]

Actually, according to California law (CVC 5900) the seller has 5 days to report the sale or transfer.  Here's the whole thing:
Although I can't find it in the Code - I suspect that when the vehicle is sold to an out of state buyer, California will attempt to collect the past due fees from the seller.

jdg

I have no idea regarding the intent of California to pursue collecting fees from an out of state purchaser (good luck with that) but the idea behind reporting the sale is two-fold. First, the state is alerted to the sale and expects the new owner to register the vehicle (collecting taxes along the way) and second, it protects the seller from liability should the buyer do something stupid while the vehicle remains in the seller's name.  As a seller, you definitely want to report the sale if you live in CA. (at least back when I lived there, but it's been 15 years now)

[Tusayan]

Although I can't find it in the Code - I suspect that when the vehicle is sold to an out of state buyer, California will attempt to collect the past due fees from the seller.

jdg

They keep sending the bills, but given that you dont own the bike and will never need to register it again, it makes no difference to you whether you tell them or not. They cannot collect fees in isolation,  they are collected in relation to reregistering the bike in their particular state. Meanwhile the buyer has left their state, registered it elsewhere and has no interest in any of the above.

That said, if you as the seller dont like throwing away renewal notices for a bike you dont own, you can mail in a sale report with any out of state/country name and address.  The state cannot prove who you sold it to, they don't care if it was out of state, and you as a private party do not control the accuracy of the name and address that the buyer may have provided in making the purchase.

[smdl]

Interesting.  Here, they would collect the fees when you tried to register/renew any other vehicle.  Same as they do with traffic fines.  If you don't pay, you can't drive anything. 

Local roles, for sure!

Cheers,
Shaun

[Lannis]

Interesting.  Here, they would collect the fees when you tried to register/renew any other vehicle.  Same as they do with traffic fines.  If you don't pay, you can't drive anything. 

Local roles, for sure!

Cheers,
Shaun

Yep; here, motor vehicle stuff (registering cars, titling them, etc) is totally a state function ... what happens in Kentucky stays in Kentucky.   

Now, if I owe the state of Virginia money for an uncollected fine or something, and I file my Virginia tax return, they'll take what I owe out of any refund I might have coming.   But if I owe the money in Michigan, Virginia doesn't care ....

Lannis

[Tusayan]

Which is why I no longer choose to live anywhere except the US, it's based on facts that affect me in tangible ways.