Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: EldoMike on March 28, 2018, 10:15:16 AM
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Friend of mine asked me what I thought the value of a nice 1993 green frame 1000S would be...I did some searching but really couldn't find much history of sales...KBB and Hagerty puts the value around $6K...seems kinda low for such a rare bike...thoughts?
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In mostly original nice condition you can easily double the KBB value.
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Buy every one you can find for 6000. :smiley: One sold for 15 not too long ago.. IIRC.
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In mostly original nice condition you can easily double the KBB value.
I agree 100% - - Nice original, clean, running, sorted examples of 1000S are going for $12K-$15K...and up...all day long (IMHO) :shocked: :huh: :rolleyes: This "nut & bolt" restored example seen at Datil NM at the Guzzi Rally went for $20,000 in 2013!!! :shocked:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/mWFgqS/IMG_6433.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mWFgqS)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dMGXx7/IMG_6434.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dMGXx7)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/fJYZAS/IMG_6435.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fJYZAS)
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Very rare Moto Guzzi. IIRC, they imported just a few hundred, or less.
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Very rare Moto Guzzi. IIRC, they imported just a few hundred, or less.
You are correct...they did not make very many...If I had not bought my '98 Centauro GT, a nice 1000S would have been my 2nd choice... :thumb: :1: :cool:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nm1UAS/Screen_Shot_2018_03_28_at_9_44_31_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/nm1UAS)
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12-15k. I haven't seen one sell for under 9-10 in years. If I saw one for 6k I would buy it tomorrow.
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Nice bike for sure, priceless? :azn:
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I just dont understand Guzzi values some times...What is the reason a 1000 S is worth so much more than say a Le Mans, or a sport 1100, or even a V7 Sport?
Rick.
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Stuart Parr has one in his current "Art of the Italian Two Wheel" show now in Miami. He's asking $28k.
https://www.miamidesigndistrict.net/event/978/stuart-parr-the-art-of-the-italian-two-wheel-opening-reception/
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Stuart Parr has one in his current "Art of the Italian Two Wheel" show now in Miami. He's asking $28k.
https://www.miamidesigndistrict.net/event/978/stuart-parr-the-art-of-the-italian-two-wheel-opening-reception/
This is a better link to the Miami Show--
https://petrolicious.com/articles/stuart-parrs-world-class-italian-motorcycle-collection-is-vacationing-in-miami
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I just dont understand Guzzi values some times...What is the reason a 1000 S is worth so much more than say a Le Mans, or a sport 1100, or even a V7 Sport?
Rick.
Three simple words: "Supply and Demand..." :laugh: :grin: :wink:
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nice bike I am not man enough to ride one for very long distance.
I am just a limp wrist.
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Mine just bumped in value. :evil:
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I just dont understand Guzzi values some times...What is the reason a 1000 S is worth so much more than say a Le Mans, or a sport 1100, or even a V7 Sport?
Rick.
Like any "collector" thing, reason isn't involved at all. I've been finding this on my hunt for a "cannonball" bike.
Let's face it. A 1000S is only a glorified T3. <running and ducking>
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Some parts are near impossible to find, like a stock seat,front fender which is slightly shorter than a T-3, clock holders and the rear license plate bracket. I have been looking for about 4 years for the little plastic piece that goes below the license plate bracket.
A stock seat recently sold on eBay for almost $500 bucks and a few years ago a NOS front fender went for somewhere north of $600 bucks if my memory is correct.
Years ago I would just buy parts from Agostini, sorry I didn’t buy more of them.
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Some parts are near impossible to find, like a stock seat,front fender which is slightly shorter than a T-3, clock holders and the rear license plate bracket. I have been looking for about 4 years for the little plastic piece that goes below the license plate bracket.
A stock seat recently sold on eBay for almost $500 bucks and a few years ago a NOS front fender went for somewhere north of $600 bucks if my memory is correct.
Years ago I would just buy parts from Agostini, sorry I didn�t buy more of them.
I rest my case, your honor..
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The other one got bumped up in value too. :evil:
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I just dont understand Guzzi values some times...What is the reason a 1000 S is worth so much more than say a Le Mans, or a sport 1100, or even a V7 Sport?
Rick.
It's a lot more rare than any of those...
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(https://image.ibb.co/isDHra/Image_8_4_17_at_11_38_AM.jpg)
I offered the owner of this bike $4,500 for this badly maintained bike in PA a few years back and he wasn’t interested. I have no idea how much he got for the bike but it was in sad shape.
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Funny part is that they could not give them away new. We've all seen the old ad with the 1000S beside the locomotive for bargain price of 1000 bucks off msrp. As I recall the ones in Tulsa went for about 5600 bucks out the door. People preferred the SP III or the Californias with the big valve LM engine in it. If I were able to ride a bike like that, I'd sooner have the 1000S than the V7 Sport. Blasphemy I realise.....
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dX9HEn/92_1000S.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dX9HEn)
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If someone wants to offer me over $23K they can have my Green frame 1000S, under 2000 miles and like new, I doubt there is a better one out there.
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Three simple words: "Supply and Demand..." :laugh: :grin: :wink:
Absotively! If they don't make it anymore, then the ones that are left are worth what someone is willing to pay to own one...same thing with unmolested Jeep CJs... :cool:
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Funny part is that they could not give them away new.
When I bought my first Guzzi in St. Louie, there was a green 1000S on the showroom floor at Donaldson's for a LOOONG time, and I remember every time I walked by it I would check it out as something pretty damn cool, and always wondered why nobody bought it.
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People looked at them *and* the price tag and said, "What will it do that my T3 won't do?" They were right, of course.
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I remember seeing a new one in the window at Moto International, with a $8K price tag. My thought at the time was that it was a ridiculous price for a bike that represented Guzzis apparent inability to come anything other than recycling a previous model. When the Daytona and 1100 Sport came out it was to me a breath of fresh air... but given that the whole industry has since taken to recycling its past, and Guzzi was arguably first European company to do it, the bike now appears cool to some buyers. I'd buy a carb 1100 Sport instead.
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So, as I understand it, the 1000S is a stripped down LeMans. And there was a bike called the Strada 1000 that was also a stripped down LeMans but with plastic bodywork but that one is not as collectible?
So the Strada and S model are essentially the same but one is collectable and the other not as much? Or have I gotten this totally wrong?
And why isn't the LeMans the most collectable of the three?
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Back in the day,at the Illinois Guzzi rally my riding buddy Bill and I got to test ride a green 1000S and a Strada.I got the 1000S first and it was special,just felt so right! It spoke to me and said ride me hard,I like it! We traded bikes after about 20 miles and the Strada was just so plain,hard to believe they came from the same factory... The reason they didn't sell was price,they were damn expensive,but in hindsight,worth every penny!!!
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And why isn't the LeMans the most collectable of the three?
They won't until they make a showroom like the one linked above (petrolitious.com), or show up in a movie of some sort. My observation is that things become collectable and people want them once they are showcased somewhere somehow. This is true for cars, furniture, lighting fixtures, clothing, motorcycles, etc. Us humans are strange like that. Again, just my observations.
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Interesting discussion, How does the green frame 1000S compare in numbers/value to a Daytona? I would venture to think the Daytona is more rare, and would be worth more. Is this the case? Does the 1000S at least have the big valve motor, the hot cam, and higher compression like the Le Mans? I personally love them both, but the motor of the Daytona makes it more "special" in my opinion.
Rick.
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They won't until they make a showroom like the one linked above (petrolitious.com), or show up in a movie of some sort. My observation is that things become collectable and people want them once they are showcased somewhere somehow. This is true for cars, furniture, lighting fixtures, clothing, motorcycles, etc. Us humans are strange like that. Again, just my observations.
I think you are correct Groover. The Terminator movie did more for Harley sales, than most of their paid advertisement. When Arnold swung a leg over that Fat Boy, it projected such an image ,that everybody wanted one. I have read in numerous places, that after the movie, is when HD sales really took off, and people were paying 4-5 K over MSRP dealer mark up,for the more popular models.
Rick.
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People looked at them *and* the price tag and said, "What will it do that my T3 won't do?" They were right, of course.
It's not a thing you can measure.
In 1970, a 426 Hemi was a $900 option on a $3200 car, and they didn't sell all they made that year.
If you'd sprung for that option over the 383, your $900 investment would have grown to over $1M now.
Same for a 427 AC Cobra. A $7500 car in the 60s, millions now for a nice one.
Nothing "real" explains that "value". Just like the "Modern Art" thing. Pablo Picasso could sneeze onto a canvas, smear it around, sign the corner of it, and it would sell for $50 million. A Honda 100 in nice shape costs $1200, UNLESS "Von Dutch" painted a little cartoon on the tank, now it's $20,000.
People just decide it's worth it, that's all.
Lannis
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What he said :1:
It's not a thing you can measure.
In 1970, a 426 Hemi was a $900 option on a $3200 car, and they didn't sell all they made that year.
If you'd sprung for that option over the 383, your $900 investment would have grown to over $1M now.
Same for a 427 AC Cobra. A $7500 car in the 60s, millions now for a nice one.
Nothing "real" explains that "value". Just like the "Modern Art" thing. Pablo Picasso could sneeze onto a canvas, smear it around, sign the corner of it, and it would sell for $50 million. A Honda 100 in nice shape costs $1200, UNLESS "Von Dutch" painted a little cartoon on the tank, now it's $20,000.
People just decide it's worth it, that's all.
Lannis
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People looked at them *and* the price tag and said, "What will it do that my T3 won't do?" They were right, of course.
And at that point the T3 had been discontinued for something like 14 years so it only makes sense that Guzzi release some cutting edge 1973 technology upon the world for the 1992 model year and wonder why they didn't sell gobs of them.
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If they had an orange frame for the orange/black, I would have bought that one instead of a greenie but who knows maybe both. :shocked:
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I think you are correct Groover. The Terminator movie did more for Harley sales, than most of their paid advertisement. When Arnold swung a leg over that Fat Boy, it projected such an image ,that everybody wanted one. I have read in numerous places, that after the movie, is when HD sales really took off, and people were paying 4-5 K over MSRP dealer mark up,for the more popular models.
Rick.
...and speaking of "the original, first year (1990) Fatboy", excellent examples of this bike are now going for $20K-$25K :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :thumb: :1: :cool:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/doARaS/Screen_Shot_2018_03_29_at_11_14_42_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/doARaS)
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Interesting to watch a rider react to strong crosswinds. :evil:
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had the chance to buy one from Ace Mallot years ago in the crate....I think he said $6500 or $7000, not for sure but I regret to this day not buying it!
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When the discussion comes to 1000 S prices, there are often immense numbers in the game. It might work out to sell a perfect motorcycle for 15 or even 20.000, but I think this is the exemption and not really realistic. There might be the lucky Ebay seller who walks away with a pile of money, or the renowned dealer sells it to a wealthy customer with all warranty issues.
But when you sell it privately, you will most likely not reach these prices. As soon as it comes to the point “money on the table”, most potential buyers get cold feet. I sold my 1000 S last year, it took some time and a lot of dicussions, once I thought it was sold (>90%), but then it wasn't because I wasn't willing to go down with the price. I sold it to a collector in Austria for a fair price for both sides (still 4 digits), drove to Austria and delivered it. I'm happy that the 1000 S has found a nice new home, that was important for me. She now is part of a very exclusive collection, the owner is a real Guzzi specialist, his goal was to show all sport carburetor Guzzis.
The last missing piece was the …...1000 S. She will not be lonesome with all her sisters like: V7 Sport, 750 S, 750 S3, Le Mans, 1,2,3,4 and 5, 1100 Sport, and a 850 T3R, a special Austrian model.
That makes me happy, I want my motorcycle to be happy rather than a speculation object :-)
(http://up.picr.de/32243596ua.jpg)
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...and speaking of "the original, first year (1990) Fatboy", excellent examples of this bike are now going for $20K-$25K :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :thumb: :1: :cool:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/doARaS/Screen_Shot_2018_03_29_at_11_14_42_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/doARaS)
I was not aware of that JJ! Well, I hope the XR 1200 goes up in value like the original Fat Boy, and the old HD Cafe Racer.
Rick.
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That sure is a pretty collection in Austria :thumb:
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So, as I understand it, the 1000S is a stripped down LeMans. And there was a bike called the Strada 1000 that was also a stripped down LeMans but with plastic bodywork but that one is not as collectible?
So the Strada and S model are essentially the same but one is collectable and the other not as much? Or have I gotten this totally wrong?
And why isn't the LeMans the most collectable of the three?
I had a LeMans 5 and Strada sitting together naked. :shocked: :smiley: The only real difference you could see was the Strada had bigger front rotors. Of course, the Lemans had the big valve engine and the Strada the medium valve, but it was hard to tell the difference from looking at them.
Collectible means something to "collectors." Value is perceived and may or may not have anything to do with actuality. :smiley:
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IMHO..the beauty in the Moto Guzzi motorcycle is to ride and not collect dust. The same goes with a classic car. Whats the use in owning a Shelby Mustang and not drive it? Back in the 80's I drove an original 1970 428CJ Mach 1 to and from work each and every day. I enjoyed actually driving that car for 10 or so years. At this time I have 3 Guzzi's and they all get ridden each week. I feel it's collectors and not actual riders that raise the prices of these bikes and cars we call classics...just watch the car auctions on TV.
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"To each their own."
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So, as I understand it, the 1000S is a stripped down LeMans. And there was a bike called the Strada 1000 that was also a stripped down LeMans but with plastic bodywork but that one is not as collectible?
So the Strada and S model are essentially the same but one is collectable and the other not as much? Or have I gotten this totally wrong?
And why isn't the LeMans the most collectable of the three?
I'd say because the strada is ugly and the 1000s looks cool as hell.
The LeMans is certainly collectable, but they imported made like 10x more of them
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I have a Strada too. I use that for a daily rider/errand runner. Either 1000S is for playtime. :thumb:
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The 1000S essentially exemplified why Guzzi stopped listening to their customers! It�s also the reason why if Piaggio have any sense they will never try and build something even remotely similar.
Before the launch of the 1000S there had been several years of models that had stylistically turned their backs on the timeless mid �70�s lines of the Sport/S/LeMans. Even the MkIII/IV/V were radically different in appearance to the earlier models and the Greek chorus of moaners all started banging on about what Guzzi needed to do was �Bring Back� the classic lines of the early �Sporting� Tonti�s.
So they did.
And they sold like seven day old rat sandwiches!
And now everybody thinks they�re marvellous and what Guzzi should do is build another one!
God forbid!
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The 1000S essentially exemplified why Guzzi stopped listening to their customers! It�s also the reason why if Piaggio have any sense they will never try and build something even remotely similar.
Before the launch of the 1000S there had been several years of models that had stylistically turned their backs on the timeless mid �70�s lines of the Sport/S/LeMans. Even the MkIII/IV/V were radically different in appearance to the earlier models and the Greek chorus of moaners all started banging on about what Guzzi needed to do was �Bring Back� the classic lines of the early �Sporting� Tonti�s.
So they did.
And they sold like seven day old rat sandwiches!
And now everybody thinks they�re marvellous and what Guzzi should do is build another one!
God forbid!
This is what Guzzi does. They are still marketing the 40 year old V50 platform. Bore the cylinders out slap on a snazzy paint scheme and you have a new bike. To to really mix things up throw in a 6 speed transmission and ABS.
I do love Guzzi's but thank dog every other manufacturers didn't follow the same idealogy.
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What Piaggio did was look back at their first retro attempt and figure out that they couldn't sell it for a low enough price. The current V7 range is the result - a cheap to build small block version of the same thing that sells very well at about the same MSRP in 2018 as the 1000S twenty five years ago. That's about half the price in inflation adjusted dollars.
I prefer instead the last non-cruiser Guzzis that didn't copy either an earlier Guzzi model or an oil head BMW - meaning the 93-98 sport bikes. Along those lines there's also the re-done Centauro, the Griso, which is OK but despite not being a cruiser still makes me feel like I'm riding some kind of custom chopper.
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So, as I understand it, the 1000S is a stripped down LeMans. And there was a bike called the Strada 1000 that was also a stripped down LeMans but with plastic bodywork but that one is not as collectible?
So the Strada and S model are essentially the same but one is collectable and the other not as much? Or have I gotten this totally wrong?
And why isn't the LeMans the most collectable of the three?
The s has the big valve motor
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The s has the big valve motor
‘Some’ S’s have the big valve motor. There were in fact two series. The later ones had the mid valve motor and if I were in the market that’s the one I’d seek out as I’m no fan of the big valve but that’s just me.
Pete
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:1: with the ROPE. FWIR '91 Big valve, '93 Mid valve. Don't know if there were '92 models.
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No '92 anything for the U.S. I'd love a 1000s, but there is no way in heck it's worth that much of a premium over a lemans 1000 to me.
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What Piaggio did was look back at their first retro attempt and figure out that they couldn't sell it for a low enough price. The current V7 range is the result - a cheap to build small block version of the same thing that sells very well at about the same MSRP in 2018 as the 1000S twenty five years ago. That's about half the price in inflation adjusted dollars.
I prefer instead the last non-cruiser Guzzis that didn't copy either an earlier Guzzi model or an oil head BMW - meaning the 93-98 sport bikes. Along those lines there's also the re-done Centauro, the Griso, which is OK but despite not being a cruiser still makes me feel like I'm riding some kind of custom chopper.
I find this odd.
I can't ride a cruiser at all - even the Indian Chief series or the MG Cali 14, which are both arguably among the most comfortable cruisers built. My Stelvio feels like a oversize adventure bike should, my Norge feels like a sport-tourer should (if a bit cramped, fixed easily enough) - and my Griso feels like a street-fighter, more comfortable and confident than a Diavel, B-King, V-Max, V-Rod, or anything else in the muscle-bike class. It actually can handle properly, which is apparently rare.
None of my bikes were even being designed when the later 'sport' Guzzis were being built - but they are all great machines and the Griso is definitely the bike I choose when I want to go out and be rude to people! :evil:
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Way back when the 1000S were new, I was a cashed up young fella - working on a drilling rig in the Qld Gulf country so I was being paid well and no where to spend it. So with $ in the pocket I rode my 1000SP down to Phil Beaumont's in Brisbane to check out the 1000S.
I was disappointed - I though the finish was very ordinary and it wasn't a patch on a mate's 750S3. I did the sensible thing and instead bought a mint 2nd hand Ducati 900S2 and mint 850 Lemans Mk3 for less money AND kept the SP.
Certainly don't regret the choice I made. One day I will have 750S3......but I just picked up a 1200 Sport Corsa and it is my first motorcycle made this century. Bloody fantastic thing it is too.
By all means if you must have a 1000S good luck to you.
Cheers
Jason
Jason
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I just dont understand Guzzi values some times...What is the reason a 1000 S is worth so much more than say a Le Mans, or a sport 1100, or even a V7 Sport?
Rick.
I’ve ridden all those and each is a great bike. The 1000S is essentially a stripped down LeMans 1000. It is a ridiculously fun bike to ride! And don’t believe those who compare it to a T3. Not even close. That being said the early ones had big valve heads and 40mm carbs. They were better than the later bikes.
I set up and rode the very first 1000S to come to America. It was a hot rod! And with the unassuming looks and easy ergos it was easy to get around quickly without drawing too much attention :copcar: Just like Porsche stripping all the flufff out of a 911, Guzzi gave us the 1000S.
Worth every penny IMHO.
Hunter
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No '92 anything for the U.S. I'd love a 1000s, but there is no way in heck it's worth that much of a premium over a lemans 1000 to me.
:1:
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The s has the big valve motor
well, how many big block motors did Guzzi build? Small valve, medium valve, big valve? More compression? More cam?
I know my EV and V11 Sport are quite a bit different in performance. Both like to rev but he Sport has more go despite the "same" engine but different rear end and transmission.
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Different tuning through the ECU plus the 6 speed. Someone else can give more details.
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No '92 anything for the U.S. I'd love a 1000s, but there is no way in heck it's worth that much of a premium over a lemans 1000 to me.
Speaking of nice, vintage 1000's....wish I had the extra lettuce for this red beauty!! :thumb: :1: :cool:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/i0OjEn/Screen_Shot_2018_03_30_at_10_57_14_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/i0OjEn)
upload photo album online (http://imgbb.com/)
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Interesting discussion, How does the green frame 1000S compare in numbers/value to a Daytona? I would venture to think the Daytona is more rare, and would be worth more. Is this the case? Does the 1000S at least have the big valve motor, the hot cam, and higher compression like the Le Mans? I personally love them both, but the motor of the Daytona makes it more "special" in my opinion.
Rick.
The 1991 model 1000S is the same under the skin as the 1991 LeMans 1000. Equally rare, the 1000S sells for 50% to 100% more than what a 1991 LeMans 1000 sells for.
The 1993 model 1000S used the smaller valved heads. Otherwise, it still retained the chassis of the LeMans 1000.
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it only makes sense that Guzzi release some cutting edge 1973 technology upon the world for the 1992 model year and wonder why they didn't sell gobs of them.
Guzzi just pulled the trigger on the "Retro Fad" a little too soon. Well, a decade too soon.
Putting the retro V7 Sport-styled bodywork on the existing LeMans 1000 sportsbike was really quite a good idea. Very cost effective way to offer a retro standard.
If Guzzi had introduced a bike like the 1000-S in 2011, at the conclusion of the California series, it would've been a different story for the sales team. They'd have outsold the V7 Classics, no problem.
Guzzi was in a tailspin in the 1990s Production (and interest from the motorcycling public) was at all time lows. Though the 1000-S was a great idea, nothing Guzzi could've released between 1989 and 1998 could've done much.
All the great sporty bikes Guzzi build during the 1990s sold in very low volume.
LeMans 1000
1000-S
Daytona 1000
Sport 1100
Daytona RS
Sport 1100 injection
Not to mention the oddballs that sold equally dismally:
SP-III
T-5
1000 Strada
V10 Centauro
Quota 1000
Quota 1100 ES
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Good looking bike. Not sure of the price though. Excellent bike for sport touring. :thumb:
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The 1991 model 1000S is the same under the skin as the 1991 LeMans 1000. Equally rare, the 1000S sells for 50% to 100% more than what a 1991 LeMans 1000 sells for.
The 1993 model 1000S used the smaller valved heads. Otherwise, it still retained the chassis of the LeMans 1000.
Frames are not exactly the same as the Lemans rear section is bent for the tail section. Same with the SPIII, Spada.
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I think the US got like 130 of these things total. ( I've got a production pdf that states 110, but I thought it was more) Production numbers were listed on this forum many years ago.
It's for sure not a hopped up T3 ( wishful thinking ) and different enough from a LeMans 1000 or a Cali to be it's own model.
I always thought the orange version should have come with an orange frame.