Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: willowstreetguzziguy on June 03, 2018, 04:57:04 PM
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Recently went to view a private collection of antique automobiles from the 1930's. Beautifully restored cars. I enjoyed looking at them but not necessarily my type. I tend to enjoy cars from my youth in the 50's thru 70's. I think most people enjoy cars and vehicles from their younger times. There are exceptions I guess.
So this got me to thinking... in 25 years, who is going to be collecting these early 20th century cars? People who are now in their 30's - 50's? I don't see it. You have the Millenials growing up and some don't even have an interest in driving, let alone cherishing these cars. Maybe these cars will all be in museums but who will go see them in 25 years?
The muscle cars we see on TV going for hundreds of thousands of dollars, some millions, are they going to continue to appreciate in value and will anyone who never lived in the 1960's pay that kind of money? Do they have a connection with the? I wonder if the audience will be out there in 25 years for all these collectable vehicles. If not, these high priced vehicles could potentially plummet greatly in value if the audience has passed on.
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JMO but with all the technology we have now, they cannot make a really attractive car/truck.
original vettes, t-birds, step-side chey pu, triumph tr-6, the list goes on.
you would be hard press to tell a Subaru, from a Toyota or Kia, Hyundai, etc.
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JMO but with all the technology we have now, they cannot make a really attractive car/truck.
original vettes, t-birds, step-side chey pu, triumph tr-6, the list goes on.
you would be hard press to tell a Subaru, from a Toyota or Kia, Hyundai, etc.
But if there's no audience, there is no value. Will the audience be there in 25 years?
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That high dollar classic car market is driven by the baby boomer generation , once we are gone some of those cars will become nothing but dinosaurs . It isn't the cars but the memories that they are associated with that make them sell for so much . No idea who will still be willing to collect cars in 25 years , there will likely be a few people interested , maybe someone currently 25 who really wants something like a WRX or a modern Vette but can't afford one at the moment .
Dusty
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That high dollar classic car market is driven by the baby boomer generation , once we are gone some of those cars will become nothing but dinosaurs . It isn't the cars but the memories that they are associated with that make them sell for so much . No idea who will still be willing to collect cars in 25 years , there will likely be a few people interested , maybe someone currently 25 who really wants something like a WRX or a modern Vette but can't afford one at the moment .
Dusty
OK what is a better looking car. two similar types. Triumph TR-6
(https://thumb.ibb.co/nr6gxd/images.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nr6gxd)
real wood dash
(https://thumb.ibb.co/me24Hd/images.jpg) (https://ibb.co/me24Hd)
or mazda miata
(https://thumb.ibb.co/m6yGVy/untitled.png) (https://ibb.co/m6yGVy)
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I think present buyers buy for the memories and the investment. Those same cars will not have the “buyers with the memories” of those cars and my not be going up in value. I believe the audiance with appreciation for those cars will drastically shrink in 25 years drastically reducing their value.
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No argument Yogi , but which one would you trust not breaking down crossing the Mojave :laugh:
Consider this , if you wanted a Miata at 17 in say 1994 , and now cab afford to buy a nice one , would the Miata be just as desirable as a TR4 is to that same 17 year old from say 1966 who is now 69 years old ?
Dusty
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I also believe this is just one of many ways times/people have changed.
no longer is an attractive car desirable, as it once was.
for most, it's just a tool, getting you from point A, to point B.
for a few, a BMW, Mercedes, is just a status symbol to impress others you think are your friends.
gone are the days where you spend all day, washing and waxing because YOU like the way your car looks.
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No argument Yogi , but which one would you trust not breaking down crossing the Mojave :laugh:
Consider this , if you wanted a Miata at 17 in say 1994 , and now cab afford to buy a nice one , would the Miata be just as desirable as a TR4 is to that same 17 year old from say 1966 who is now 69 years old ?
Dusty
honestly, I've never been worried about break downs with older cars/trucks. I'm old school, points, condensers are no problem.
now if a computer gives me trouble......SHELDO N!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(https://thumb.ibb.co/nmbZiJ/untitled.png) (https://ibb.co/nmbZiJ)
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I also believe this is just one of many ways times/people have changed.
no longer is an attractive car desirable, as it once was.
for most, it's just a tool, getting you from point A, to point B.
for a few, a BMW, Mercedes, is just a status symbol to impress others you think are your friends.
gone are the days where you spend all day, washing and waxing because YOU like the way your car looks.
Oddly enough I never performed those activities , even back in 1972 a car was just a car . I did own a couple of hot rods , but cars won't lean or wheelie :grin:
Dusty
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But if there's no audience, there is no value. Will the audience be there in 25 years?
I've often wondered the same, and did last night while riding behind a super clean late 1950s Ford Fairlane.
A weekly Saturday night car meet had just ended and they were all leaving, I pulled out of the restaurant next door.
There were young people there - looked like a good age mix actually, but many of the old guys were in rough shape.
The Fairlane pulls off and later I pass a 1920s Ford for sale in a driveway. I'd love to own either, but it'll never happen. Got my hands full with bikes and 2 modern cars.
As far as generations and liking what you grew up with; I was born late 60s and still want a 50s Vincent. I have a mild interest in 1920s - 30s Brit bikes. I'd love a 4-cyl Henderson , Ace or Indian, but even the wrecks are priced out of my reach now.
I used to be a member of a vintage bike club. The average owner age was....high. There's a lot of nice old bikes hidden away. I hope there are enough people out there with the resources to buy and ride them all when the current caretakers pass on.
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Oddly enough I never performed those activities , even back in 1972 a car was just a car . I did own a couple of hot rods , but cars won't lean or wheelie :grin:
Dusty
I had a 1970 Mustang, I put a '71 429 Super Cobra Jet in. 4.57 rear gears, 2-4 barrels, zoom clutch, vertical gate shifter, etc, etc
It WOULD wheelie!
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I had a 1970 Mustang, I put a '71 429 Super Cobra Jet in. 4.57 rear gears, 2-4 barrels, zoom clutch, vertical gate shifter, etc, etc
It WOULD wheelie!
:laugh:
Yeah , but how could you see where you were going ? :shocked: :grin:
Dusty
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The aging baby boomer with extra money in hand and fond memories of his youth lusting over a muscle car have driven up the price of the muscle car to absurd heights. There is nothing particularly rare about a car they made tens of thousands of but there were an inordinate number of males born in the boom and an equally large number of cars made for them. If only 1/10th of the muscle cars have survived that is a huge number of cars to pass on in the future. Demand is driven by nostalgia and once the personal connection to these cars is gone the demand will plummet and prices will follow. Some of the truly rare cars of the period will hold their prices, I don't see a 289 or 427 Shelby Cobra price coming down in the future but there are a whole lot of 69 and 70 Mustangs that are not going to continue to fetch $80K.
The same will be true for motorcycles, a Kawasaki Z1 A or B is nice bike, same for a Honda CB 750, but they made thousands and thousands of them, there just won't be the demand to absorb them once the current owners reach and age to move them on. I am seeing a lot of early Norton Commando's for sale and the prices have been going down, not up.
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I've often wondered the same, and did last night while riding behind a super clean late 1950s Ford Fairlane.
A weekly Saturday night car meet had just ended and they were all leaving, I pulled out of the restaurant next door.
There were young people there - looked like a good age mix actually, but many of the old guys were in rough shape.
The Fairlane pulls off and later I pass a 1920s Ford for sale in a driveway. I'd love to own either, but it'll never happen. Got my hands full with bikes and 2 modern cars.
As far as generations and liking what you grew up with; I was born late 60s and still want a 50s Vincent. I have a mild interest in 1920s - 30s Brit bikes. I'd love a 4-cyl Henderson , Ace or Indian, but even the wrecks are priced out of my reach now.
I used to be a member of a vintage bike club. The average owner age was....high. There's a lot of nice old bikes hidden away. I hope there are enough people out there with the resources to buy and ride them all when the current caretakers pass on.
Good point! I would much prefer a mid 60's Triumph motorcycle, to any of the newer Triumphs. style, light weight, kick start, no FI or computer.
but then again, I would love to live in an era where horses were the sole means of transportation.
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willowstreetguzzigu y, see what you started! :laugh:
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If it has vintage air installed, I'd rather drive & ride in a 54 Buick or Chevy than my wife's new SUV. As far as collectibles, only the new Vette boils my blood, and I consider it too complicated.
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But if there's no audience, there is no value. Will the audience be there in 25 years?
Well, lets look at it this way. Jump BACK 25 or 50 years.
What about cars from the 1920s and 1930s? Almost no one alive today "grew up with" those cars, the Pierce-Arrows, Model T Fords, Essex Terraplanes.
Has interest in those cars disappeared and the value dropped to where you can pick them up easily? No way. Remember when Belloc pulled out a cheap watch in "ROTLA"?
“Look at this. It’s worthless — ten dollars from a vendor in the street. But I take it, I bury it in the sand for a thousand years, it becomes priceless. Like the Ark.”
Or like a 1934 flathead Ford .....
Lannis
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What about cars from the 1920s and 1930s? Almost no one alive today "grew up with" those cars, the Pierce-Arrows, Model T Fords, Essex Terraplanes.
Lannis
I don't think it all about living during that time, its more about appreciating them. There are still many car guys and car girls in their 60's, 70's and 80's with money who are still car fanatics who appreciate those automobiles. I think there are far less car guys and car girls coming up thru the ranks.
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I'd kill to have my 1980 Celica Sunchaser back. I'd also love to have a Supra with targa top. MR2s also. The early Lexus SC400 is a dream car I still can't afford. The early BMW M3 was pretty sweet. Buick Reatta convertible is one of my all time favorite cars. So I think you're wrong. But the audience may be much smaller.
-AJ
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I don't think it all about living during that time, its more about appreciating them. There are still many car guys and car girls in their 60's, 70's and 80's with money who are still car fanatics who appreciate those automobiles. I think there are far less car guys and car girls coming up thru the ranks.
There sure are a lot of them here where I live! They may be doing fuel injection rail swaps on hot hatchbacks rather than jacking up GTOs, but there are a bunch of them.
We always think "When we're gone, there'll be nobody left!" Every generation thinks that. And it never seems to happen. Old cars from any era get more expensive and more desirable as time goes by.
When I ride the old BSA A10 up to Ohio this year for the OVBSAOC rally, I'll bet that half of the BSA owners will be younger than me.
Besides, it's not like we're in layered, defined "generations". There's a smooth continuity of ages, interests, etc. They'll carry on.
Lannis
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Me thinks the market will be strong for current bikes/cars in 25 years. If you consider today's value of the "throw away" bikes and cars of 25 or 40 years ago, we couldn't see it then, but it happened. As has already been stated, it's the memories that are selling. Current cars and bikes have a rideability and dependability that our "dream machines" couldn't approach.
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I think that in 25 years, owning old vehicles will strictly be the providence of the very rich. I see a future in which the internal combustion engine is obsolete, fuel is ridiculously overpriced, and gasoline engines will be antiques, ridden/driven for parades and the like, at a premium tax and registration cost.
We're seeing the end of an era here, we're in it... the horse and buggy being phased out by cars? We're at the tipping point of a new revolution. So, enjoy it while it lasts, because it's not going to last.
As for "style"... the truly stylish vehicles that are being made today are *already* those that are afforded only by the rich. The middle class cars and trucks are cookie cutter. Some bikes are hitting style cues, but riders are driven by style (don't lie, you are too).
That said... I think we see style in "eras" of cars, as opposed to actual cars. Yeah, some cars were amazing looking... but a '40s Pickup... well, they all kinda looked the same.. just like they do now.
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"In the year 2525....if man is still alive...." :sad:
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:laugh:
Yeah , but how could you see where you were going ? :shocked: :grin:
Dusty
He didn't need to.
With that thing, he was going to jail..! :copcar: :thumb:
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I think that in 25 years, owning old vehicles will strictly be the providence of the very rich. I see a future in which the internal combustion engine is obsolete, fuel is ridiculously overpriced, and gasoline engines will be antiques, ridden/driven for parades and the like, at a premium tax and registration cost.
Maybe in 125 years. Not in 25 years; that's just around the corner. It would be starting now if it were going to happen that soon.
Heck, this post will be in the WG archives and I'll have it bookmarked!
Lannis
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I know a guy with 2 20's era Fords, one he picked up years ago for 15K, the other he inherited from his father-in-law. He claims both have lost a third of their value as few want the hassle of dealing with them, or just don't understand the mechanicals, such as magnetos, etc.
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I'm in the Musclecar restoration culture, I've owned my '68 Dodge Charger since 1981. We ask ourselves every day who is going to end up with all this stuff. I think there is a significant number of kids who will love the cars-like my son-but will not have the skills to work on them. A lot of them will end up in family collections, and the possession will wax and wane with fortunes. There will always be a boutique of professional mechanics who will demand increasingly good money for working on this stuff- I get $100/hr for the things only I can do in the area. And I'm not getting any cheaper. Whether some kid will come along to learn what I know, only time will tell.
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Lannis hit on it. You guys are thinking muscle cars and hot rods. The younger generation is tuners and drifters. Still cars, just different strokes. The one common interest will probably be the off roaders. That crowd doesn't really change tastes.
-AJ
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I'm in the Musclecar restoration culture, I've owned my '68 Dodge Charger since 1981. We ask ourselves every day who is going to end up with all this stuff. I think there is a significant number of kids who will love the cars-like my son-but will not have the skills to work on them. A lot of them will end up in family collections, and the possession will wax and wane with fortunes. There will always be a boutique of professional mechanics who will demand increasingly good money for working on this stuff- I get $100/hr for the things only I can do in the area. And I'm not getting any cheaper. Whether some kid will come along to learn what I know, only time will tell.
Dominic Toretto??? is that you? :grin:
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Wonder how many guys can still work lead anymore? Bondo killed off a real art...
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Wonder how many guys can still work lead anymore? Bondo killed off a real art...
Well , that and dain bramage :shocked:
Dusty
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I think a relevant factor is that, as cars (and motorcycles) become more sophisticated and complex, they will become ever more difficult -- if not impossible -- to restore, or even keep running. That's going to be a problem for the hobby.
PhilB
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I won't be here to worry about it in 25 years or if I am I will be long past caring LOL
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Dominic Toretto??? is that you? :grin:
That was a '70, you can tell by the wraparound front bumper which facilitated using the front fenders with the nose of the Daytona Charger. Also the long slot taillights whereas the '68 has four round lamps. A point of interest is that the movie car had a small block chevy under the blower.
;)
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I won't be here to worry about it in 25 years or if I am I will be long past caring LOL
Stop with the making sense Roy , you know there is no place for that here :rolleyes:
Dusty
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That was a '70, you can tell by the wraparound front bumper which facilitated using the front fenders with the nose of the Daytona Charger. Also the long slot taillights whereas the '68 has four round lamps. A point of interest is that the movie car had a small block chevy under the blower.
;)
you're right, been a long time since I saw that movie, forgot what that scene. I had a friend who had a 68, back in high school. that was a loooong time ago. :rolleyes:
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I think a relevant factor is that, as cars (and motorcycles) become more sophisticated and complex, they will become ever more difficult -- if not impossible -- to restore, or even keep running. That's going to be a problem for the hobby.
PhilB
Depends on your motivation. In other countries (Near East, South Asia), there are entire cottage industries dedicated to fixing and repairing electronic devices that we in the US would never even consider trying to fix - we just toss them out and buy another.
But if you've got time and not money, and a bunch of non-working electronics, you can figure out how to crack them open and probe for what's wrong, and get them working and sell them.
A blacksmith who could repair a cart axle or a single-tree would probably believe it would be impossible to rebuild a Smith's Magnetic tachometer or a Lucas K2F magneto. But people do it every day, for not a lot of money, and send it back all fixed and working.
The same will be true for a Centauro ECU or a Harley TPS someday .... What one guy can design and build, another can fix.
Lannis
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Your question covers more than motor vehicles. I have 3 homes full of antiques that will probably go into a roll back dumpster. My Mother in law has collected-hoarded massive amounts of stuff I have know interest in and have know place to put. My Wife and I have watched other dispose of their parents stuff the same way. The perceived value to the parents is just not worth our time and effort to dispose of it. Hundreds of hours of sorting, buyers that never show up and researching the market makes it a labor of love.
As far as motor vehicles go, there will be market, but limited. There will be wealthy people in America for a long time that will be able to afford toys. I believe the problem will be the lack of skills and knowledge to maintain them in working condition. This is already occurring today. Old School mechanics are getting few and far between. I own a 2003 Dodge Neon SXT. Very low miles, very clean and always kept in a garage. Is it collectable? It could be to someone. A car I owned and wish I still had, 1976 Datsun 280Z 2+2. My dream car, 1972 Corvette.
This is my opinion. I am not a collector of stuff. What I have collected, I have been getting rid of. Mostly just personal memory stuff and not so much collectibles.
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Wonder how many guys can still work lead anymore? Bondo killed off a real art...
But today there are guys who can work sheet metal needing near zero filler...You won't find these guys at your local body body shop of course..Body panel work is not art, it's a learned trade...But when it goes into custom metal shaping then it's art...The great customizers of the 1950's like George Baris were artists with plastic body filler...It often covered up rather crude metal work..
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Same with old baseball cards. I have cards from the 1960's that I will sell soon because the audience for these is shrinking every day. And their value will go down.
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Same with old baseball cards. I have cards from the 1960's that I will sell soon because the audience for these is shrinking every day. And their value will go down.
Good point. Maybe the "baseball card" thing was just a fad with a very long half-life?
If fewer new collectors of cards are coming into the market than old collectors who die and their collections are sold off, then the price WILL go down.
Cabbage Patch Kids? Beanie Babies? Tickle Me Elmo? Prices for these could go into the thousands in the 80s and 90s. You can probably buy any of them for $5 now.
Maybe it's 'intrinsic value'. But that won't explain why an "Action Comics #1" introducing Superman still sells for millions of dollars, and probably still will 50 years from now.
Anyway, I still don't see a nice Model A or a 440 Cuda selling for chicken feed in my grandchildren's lifetimes!
Lannis
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Anyone who spends $50,000 and up on a classic car, motorcycle, coin, etc. is doing so for enjoyment but mainly as an investment. They aren't figuring on it losing 10's or hundreds of thousands of dollars. They are banking it will go up in value in the next few years or they wouldn't be buying it.
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Anyone who spends $50,000 and up on a classic car, motorcycle, coin, etc. is doing so for enjoyment but mainly as an investment. They aren't figuring on it losing 10's or hundreds of thousands of dollars. They are banking it will go up in value in the next few years or they wouldn't be buying it.
That could very well be.
In my Mom's last couple of years here, she and I enjoyed watching the televised car auctions on TV. She was always a "car chick" and enjoyed driving ever since she got her license in 1943.
So she knew a lot of these old cars when they were new.
As we watched, I noticed for several reasons the guys that were bidding on them and buying them :
1) Most of them looked a lot like me.
2) I know a lot of guys right here locally who have $250,000 to play with. They own and operate small construction companies, logging operations, farm supply stores, industrial maintenance firms. They've worked their arses off for 30 years building up the company, haven't taken much out of it, don't have time to spend a lot of money on hobbies ... but now they're in Vegas and on TV!
3) And there's a lovely lady in a nice suit working for the auction company right next to them, just flogging the car they're bidding on. "You'd look good in that!" "You had one of these back in the day, didn't you? I know you did, bring this one home" "Come on now, don't lose this car for a $1000 bid - one more bid and it's yours" looking them right in the eye and egging them on for all they're worth. Powerful medicine, is that.
So it might be an investment, or it might be their 15 minutes of worldly fame, you just never know ....
Lannis
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The world is moving at an ever-increasing pace towards freeing itself from internal combustion...Some of us may not live to see it, but it will happen...
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Anyone who spends $50,000 and up on a classic car, motorcycle, coin, etc. is doing so for enjoyment but mainly as an investment. They aren't figuring on it losing 10's or hundreds of thousands of dollars. They are banking it will go up in value in the next few years or they wouldn't be buying it.
My personal position, and my direct observation of others who have spent big money on old cars, is that 80% of us drive the ass off of these cars.
What would you rather drive for $80k, a '68 Charger with modern disc brakes, cruise control, air conditioning, 24mpg, or a new BMW?
It's not for everyone, but it's a choice not to be discarded.
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The world is moving at an ever-increasing pace towards freeing itself from internal combustion...Some of us may not live to see it, but it will happen...
At the moment, I think mankind is not so much freeing itself from internal combustion as it is struggling to remain individually free as it is forcibly removed from us by those who would like to control our movement.
Regardless, power plants will be burning natural gas in 200 years, so I don't think there's much chance of chemical combustion as a power source fading away completely, ever.
The cars and motorcycles of the 20th century are becoming considered art... iconic quasi religious symbols that simply aren't going to fade away :grin: I suspect people will be fooling with them still in 500 years. No, a V12 Ferrari and the man who made them is not going to be forgotten in a few hundred years, and nor will the American cars of 1950s.
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I know quite a few guys 25-35 years old...Around here, rural area, it's 4x4 pick up trucks ,often diesels with modified engines..Guys in the city lean towards tuned Japanese cars. A few have new Camaros, Mustangs or Mopars. To them, a late model Pony Car or pick up truck makes more sense than old very expensive cars with less performance...
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Here is what I see happening in Oklahoma . 15 year ago it seemed every 25 year old had a
mini-truck all blinged out , or a pocket-rocket car with an almost open exhaust , or a sportbike with mods . Now it is exceedingly rare to encounter any of those vehicles . There are still a few muscle cars being driven by graybeards , and Harleys are still somewhat common , also mostly ridden by older men or women . Yeah , there are remnants of the scene from a few years back , but even one of the young guys I knew who was heavily involved in the pocket rocket car and HD culture has moved on . He mostly just does tattoo work and build custom computers for folks . I went by his house recently and stopped for a few minutes and was slightly surprised that there was no Honda car undergoing some engine swap , or motorcycle being customized in his shop . He simply stated that those things had become boring and expensive , and he had sold everything for pennies on the dollar.
Dusty
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Tattoos and computers, ha! I see a lot of that. That is the generation that will take our place in 25 years. Very interesting!
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Around here... toys rule. Side-by-sides, quads, dirtbikes, boats, and toy hauler/RVs.
Every house has a sub-$1000 mini-truck 4X4 for banging around the bush.
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Do the tattoos depict early 80s computers? :wink:
I don't think anybody has actually forgotten the real world, at least not completely, especially once they have the money to be real.
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Tattoos and computers, ha! I see a lot of that. That is the generation that will take our place in 25 years. Very interesting!
When you put it that way, it DOES sound a bit unlikely .... ! :sad:
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I grew up in the 60's and 70's and loved muscle cars, My first car (not a muscle car) was a 1965 Mustang 2+2, 289 4bbl, 4 speed drum brake model. I sold it to buy my first house, never got back into old cars again. A couple years ago I went to Barret Jackson in Phoenix and took a look at all the late 60's muscle cars that had sold or were for sale. The price for a very nice 69 Mustang Mach 1 was around $95K. At West World a guy had a big tent with 2 or 3 year old luxury sport cars, Ferrari, Maserati, Aston Martin, BMW M series etc. For about the same money or less one could get an almost new 400 ~ 600 hp car that handled, stopped, was comfortable and would blow the doors off every muscle car being offered. After seeing that comparison in prices / value I gave up any desire to own a 60's muscle car. When I compare the 67 Vette 427 triple 2bbl, 435 hp, 0-60 in 5 seconds, it is a slow performance car by current standards. A new BMW M5 is over 2 seconds faster to 60 and its corners, stops, holds five people and is comfortable all day long, even the standard BMW V8 5 series is 0-60 in under 4 seconds and costs less than what a 69 Mach 1 is going for.
Now if a real nice 69 Mach 1 was being offered for say $40K that would bring me back to old cars.
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I grew up in the 60's and 70's and loved muscle cars, My first car (not a muscle car) was a 1965 Mustang 2+2, 289 4bbl, 4 speed drum brake model. I sold it to buy my first house, never got back into old cars again. A couple years ago I went to Barret Jackson in Phoenix and took a look at all the late 60's muscle cars that had sold or were for sale. The price for a very nice 69 Mustang Mach 1 was around $95K. At West World a guy had a big tent with 2 or 3 year old luxury sport cars, Ferrari, Maserati, Aston Martin, BMW M series etc. For about the same money or less one could get an almost new 400 ~ 600 hp car that handled, stopped, was comfortable and would blow the doors off every muscle car being offered. After seeing that comparison in prices / value I gave up any desire to own a 60's muscle car. When I compare the 67 Vette 427 triple 2bbl, 435 hp, 0-60 in 5 seconds, it is a slow performance car by current standards. A new BMW M5 is over 2 seconds faster to 60 and its corners, stops, holds five people and is comfortable all day long, even the standard BMW V8 5 series is 0-60 in under 4 seconds and costs less than what a 69 Mach 1 is going for.
Now if a real nice 69 Mach 1 was being offered for say $40K that would bring me back to old cars.
So the interest in, and prices paid, for 428 Cobra-Jets and 340 Six Packs very obviously has nothing to do with the relative performance between those cars and modern cars.
It's something else.
For example, why would I load up a 58 year old BSA (which would see off almost any car made in its day) with camping gear, tools, etc and ride it 800 miles to a rally, when for the $7500 that that bike is worth, I could be riding a 650 V-strom that will grossly outperform it in every way, speed, brakes, handling, reliability ... ?
Explain THAT and you'll have the answer as to why some guys WOULD have a mint El Camino and would NOT have a Range Rover for the same money .... !
Lannis
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So the interest in, and prices paid, for 428 Cobra-Jets and 340 Six Packs very obviously has nothing to do with the relative performance between those cars and modern cars.
It's something else.
For example, why would I load up a 58 year old BSA (which would see off almost any car made in its day) with camping gear, tools, etc and ride it 800 miles to a rally, when for the $7500 that that bike is worth, I could be riding a 650 V-strom that will grossly outperform it in every way, speed, brakes, handling, reliability ... ?
Explain THAT and you'll have the answer as to why some guys WOULD have a mint El Camino and would NOT have a Range Rover for the same money .... !
Lannis
The THAT is called nostalgia, the definition of why I have a bunch of old Italian motorcycles. The thing about nostalgia driving interest and prices of an item is that once the personal connection (ie, nostalgia) is gone between potential buyer and said item the value drops off.
My point is that if someone who did not grow up with, lusted over, rode in etc. a late 60's muscle car the nostalgia is not there and the same potential buyer will likely de drawn to a more current performance vehicle. As time goes buy there are fewer and fewer buyers for the 60's and 70's muscle cars, partly because the glut of us baby boomers have passed and those with spare money will be looking for something else reflective of their generation.
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Saying personal nostalgia is the cause of enthusiasm for older classic vehicles is like saying we ride Moto Guzzis because we love Italy... when many who love Guzzis in America have never been to Italy, no more than they have enjoyed time travel.
There is so much more going on: the accessibility of the technology, the appreciation of the design philosophy, the proven sustainability of the vehicles themselves, the appreciation of history and culture in which they were not necessarily directly involved. Reasonably intelligent people can and do extend their interests beyond their personal life experience.
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My point is that if someone who did not grow up with, lusted over, rode in etc. a late 60's muscle car the nostalgia is not there and the same potential buyer will likely de drawn to a more current performance vehicle. As time goes buy there are fewer and fewer buyers for the 60's and 70's muscle cars, partly because the glut of us baby boomers have passed and those with spare money will be looking for something else reflective of their generation.
But (as I think I said once but maybe not) that doesn't explain why sports cars and bikes of the 20s and 30s, who NO ONE ALIVE was lusting after and buying when they were new, are selling for stratospheric prices, and being bought by guys who didn't get the foggiest bit interested in them until they were grown and oldish men ....
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Pre-war cars are often used as an example of how personal nostalgia drives the collector car market: Ford Model As an Ts and other more numerous types have decreased in value. However the more glamorous and interesting types have done the opposite and risen in value , maybe because people see the past they didn't actually experience though rose tinted glasses or because they want to escape the limits of their own life experience. Who knows? I think the market does change as the items get older, but it does not disappear.
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Lannis hit on it. You guys are thinking muscle cars and hot rods. The younger generation is tuners and drifters. Still cars, just different strokes. The one common interest will probably be the off roaders. That crowd doesn't really change tastes.
-AJ
Seen the price of an R34 GTR recently? Bring money and lots of it.
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The THAT is called nostalgia, the definition of why I have a bunch of old Italian motorcycles. The thing about nostalgia driving interest and prices of an item is that once the personal connection (ie, nostalgia) is gone between potential buyer and said item the value drops off.
My point is that if someone who did not grow up with, lusted over, rode in etc. a late 60's muscle car the nostalgia is not there and the same potential buyer will likely de drawn to a more current performance vehicle. As time goes buy there are fewer and fewer buyers for the 60's and 70's muscle cars, partly because the glut of us baby boomers have passed and those with spare money will be looking for something else reflective of their generation.
Very Well Said!
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But (as I think I said once but maybe not) that doesn't explain why sports cars and bikes of the 20s and 30s, who NO ONE ALIVE was lusting after and buying when they were new, are selling for stratospheric prices, and being bought by guys who didn't get the foggiest bit interested in them until they were grown and oldish men ....
What I am referring to is the number of restored muscle cars out there, a Mustang, Camaro, Super Bee or Barracuda of the 60's are hardly rare, they made hundreds of thousands of them and a whole lot of them have been restored, many to a very high standard. There are just too many of them to be absorbed by the market once the baby boomers who grew up with them are gone. The cars of the 20's and 30's you are referring to were made in smaller numbers, fewer were saved and the market can absorb them. I have a lot of respect for the 1st generation Honda CB750, the Kawasaki Z1 and the Suzuki 750 GT, great bikes, tons of them have been saved but far too many for the market to absorb without prices coming down. Just too much supply for demand in years to come.
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I have a lot of respect for the 1st generation Honda CB750, the Kawasaki Z1 and the Suzuki 750 GT, great bikes, tons of them have been saved but far too many for the market to absorb without prices coming down. Just too much supply for demand in years to come.
It may be so, but I wish that the guys with the nice GT750s would get that message. I've been trying to buy one for years, but the prices are climbing on a steep parabolic curve faster than I can justify unbelting for their stratospheric asking prices ..... !
Lannis
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It may be so, but I wish that the guys with the nice GT750s would get that message. I've been trying to buy one for years, but the prices are climbing on a steep parabolic curve faster than I can justify unbelting for their stratospheric asking prices ..... !
Lannis
There was a gorgeous low mile 1973 GT 750 on Phoenix Craigslist last fall, I think the asking price was around $6K, it looked amazing in the pictures all original. It was listed for a long time, I don’t know it ever sold. I like the 73’s with the dual front discs ant the exhaust with the black cones, very attractive.
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There was a gorgeous low mile 1973 GT 750 on Phoenix Craigslist last fall, I think the asking price was around $6K, it looked amazing in the pictures all original. It was listed for a long time, I don�t know it ever sold. I like the 73�s with the dual front discs ant the exhaust with the black cones, very attractive.
I had one, and it was a wonderful all-around bike. I put a Windjammer on it; it was like riding a big quiet reliable Evinrude motor down the road. 1200 miles to a quart of injector oil, almost no smoke, nothing to do on it except check the tires and chain, no valve lash to set, no oil to change, no points to fool with, it was great .... I don't think these glasses have too much of a reddish tint to them ....
Lannis