V11 Breva, Startus Interuptus - Is a fix still available...?

[radguzzi]

A friend here with an ultra-low mileage 2006 Breva that has starter issues so I told him about the ubiquitous Startus Interuptus.

He has experimented with a different relay and a power lead directly from the battery and still has the problem. 

Is the fix still available...?  Where from...? 

I had purchased a new Norge 1200 GT in 2007 and had only heard (read) of Startus Interuptus and never experienced this issue. 

Thanks,
Rob 

[lucian]

Hey Rob, MPH in Texas used to have kits available , not sure if they still do or not , here's a link
https://mphcycles.com/cool-stuff-we-like/
Also I think Greg Bender would be able to make one up.  Happy new year

[Mackers]

There's a very interesting article and fix by Julan Frank in the Nov/Dec 2023 issue of "Gambalunga", the MG Club GB magazine.

Apparently, on Aprilia bikes, there was a diode and capacitor installed on socket 61 and 62 of the circuit diagram to maintain the ECU voltage during the starter sequence. These were not installed on the CARC bikes. But they can be retrofitted. Once fitted, your click no start problem is solved. "Even if your battery is past its prime or you've left your bike for a long time the bike will now attempt to at least turn over, and your "click no start" will have gone".

Alas, I don't have a scanner.

[pehayes]

There's a very interesting article and fix by Julan Frank in the Nov/Dec 2023 issue of "Gambalunga", the MG Club GB magazine.
...

Alas, I don't have a scanner.

I do have a scanner and the magazine.  PM if you want copy.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Shiny Hat]

That’s interesting but would need more info regarding socket 61 and 62. 61 indicates the battery or charge light circuit but not sure on 62. Also notes as sockets so without the article it’s a guess at best.
Looking at the print the starter relay coil is activated by a ground signal from the ECU. The start button also appears to be controlling a ground signal to the ECU. If, after verifying, the start switch is a ground signal I know what I would do to test, the ECU would be out of the picture as far as the start circuit.

[radguzzi]

Hey Rob, MPH in Texas used to have kits available , not sure if they still do or not , here's a link
https://mphcycles.com/cool-stuff-we-like/
Also I think Greg Bender would be able to make one up.  Happy new year

Thanks much,
I passed the info along.  He is a fairly competent wrench, and this just threw him... Any luck at all and Kim can send him the kit.

Happy New Year to you as well.

Thanks,
rad__

[pehayes]

In addition to the 'Startus Interuptus' bodge, there is a fundamental issue with the computer logic and starter control.  Anyone with an 'auto-start' Breva or Norge should read this entire thread.  There is a simple but crude bypass solution.  The aforementioned British solution is probably ideal, but this one will get you down the road.

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=117948.0

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Shiny Hat]

To fix anything it’s best to understand how it works. There are other ways referred to as shotgunning but that is a waste of time and money.
I am basing this information off a 2005 Breva print so you need to verify the information on the year and model you are working on.
The starter relay is activated by a ground signal from the ECU pin 1 to the starter relay coil pin 2.
It sends this ground to the relay when the start button is engaged and other conditions are met (neutral, gear, side stand, battery voltage, etc.).
When conditions are met the ECU will send a ground signal to the start relay out of ECU pin 1.

If the starter does not engage one of the tests you can perform is monitor the relay coil ground on pin 2 of the relay, if the ground drops when trying to start that is the reason for the no crank.

Here’s what you can do for TEST purposes. First you need to verify the signal from the start button. Unplug the ECU connector and install a meter on pin 28, see if it does in fact provide a ground when the button is pressed. You can do this test with the key off.
If and only if a ground is verified on pin 28 you can remove pin 28 and pin 1 from the connector. Lay the pins along side each other and wrap with fine copper wire and cover with heat shrink. This will allow you to undo and reinstall the pins in the ECU connector. Remember this is for testing.
The upside is the engine will only crank with the key on. The downsides are the engine will crank in gear, clutch out, side stand down (if the key is on it will crank). I would recommend this for testing only and not a permanent repair.

If the engine crank is solved you now have to find why it didn’t. It appears in this case the ECU is seeing a low voltage condition and disabling the starter circuit. From another post it looks as if this issue was bypassed using a capacitor. I don’t know where it is installed on the circuit but knowing that can lead to a permanent repair.

If you have a question ask, if you’re not sure what you are doing with the wiring, don’t touch.
Do not connect ECU pins 1 and 28 while they are still in the connector they must be removed.

Verify the print and how it is working first and foremost (neither prints or I are perfect).
I don’t have foolish pride so if you see a mistake in my post by all means fire away.

[Kim H]

Hey Rob, MPH in Texas used to have kits available , not sure if they still do or not , here's a link
https://mphcycles.com/cool-stuff-we-like/
Also I think Greg Bender would be able to make one up.  Happy new year

YES, MPH Cycles in Houston is still supplying Starter Relay Kits for CARC bikes, sending out 3-5 per month all over the world.  Just contact me via email:-  Kim (at) mphcycles.com
ALSO, we now have a Kit for the V11 Spine Frame bikes.