Ducati 803 vs Guzzi 853 Power

[leafman60]

I just received a spec sheet for the Ducati Scrambler engine.  Comparison with the latest Guzzi V9 is interesting. Both are air-cooled 90 degree twins, Guzzi has 50cc up on the Duc.


                              Ducati 803cc              Guzzi V9 853cc       BMW G650 Single          1972 R75          H-D 883

Horsepower       75 HP @ 8250 RPM       55 HP @ 6250 RPM       50 HP @ 6500         50 HP @ 6200          N/A

Torque              50 FP @  5750 RPM       46 FP @ 3000 RPM       44 FP @ 5000          43 FP @ 5000      54 FP @ 3750

   

 

[canuguzzi]

Just looking at them, it seems the Scrambler won't spend much time at the lower rpms, sort of contrary to its purpose. The Scrambler looks lime it wants to run just sitting there

They attract a lot of attention

[not-fishing]

Why do I feel like it's Deja Vu all over again?

I keep thinking of the Stereo "maximum watts " output wars of the 70's

Or the cubic-inch car engine wars of the '60's.

On thing about the new Duc I do know is that 5 years from now there'll be a lot of used Ducs for sale with less 12,000 miles on them.  It's that little cost for  replacing the timing belts every two years that will convince some owners to sell them.

Now one Duc I'm happy to see is the Sixty-Two

[jas67]

I just received a spec sheet for the Ducati Scrambler engine.  Comparison with the latest Guzzi V9 is interesting. Both are air-cooled 90 degree twins, Guzzi has 50cc up on the Duc.


                                    Ducati 803cc                   Guzzi V9 853cc

Horsepower              75 HP @ 8250 RPM            55 HP @ 6250 RPM

Torque                     50 FP @  5750 RPM            46 FP @ 3000 RPM

 

That 803cc Ducati is going through shorter gearing to the rear wheel, and thus will deliver a lot more torque to the road.  Plus the shaft-driven Guzzi will have more drive line losses than the Duc.

That isn't to say that the V9 engine won't be an enjoyable engine.   I have the Monster 796, which has an earlier version the 803cc engine tuned for even more power (less constrained by emissions), and, of course, two V7's, which make even less power an torque than the V9 engine.    I truly enjoy my V7's as much as I do the Monster, for different types of riding.

It isn't just about the numbers.

[canuguzzi]

Ducati Cam Belt Replacement April 2015 - YouTube


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pAhwVlITOKI

In case you want to see how it's done.

[rocker59]

This is all you need to know about the personality of the engines:

Torque                     50 FP @  5750 RPM            46 FP @ 3000 RPM


Peak torque at 3,000 rpm will make for a more tractable engine.  If tractable is what you're wanting...

[leafman60]

I'm wondering, IF GUZZI WANTED TO make a sportier bike with the V9, why they couldn't retune the motor with cam profiles etc to produce nearer to the power of the Ducati engine? 

I realize the valve train is different etc but, if Ducati can get that sort of power from a smaller motor, why can't Guzzi get closer to it with the V9?

[canuguzzi]

http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/scrambler-slam-ducati-vs-triumph/attachment/031915-2015-ducati-scrambler-vs-triumph-scrambler-hp-torque-dyno

A little more perspective of the Scramblers torque curve.

390+ pounds, a pretty light bike. Different bike too.

[oldbike54]

I'm wondering, IF GUZZI WANTED TO make a sportier bike with the V9, why they couldn't retune the motor with cam profiles etc to produce nearer to the power of the Ducati engine? 

I realize the valve train is different etc but, if Ducati can get that sort of power from a smaller motor, why can't Guzzi get closer to it with the V9?

 There might in fact be a couple of Shetlands lurking in the V9 engine that have gone untapped . However we are talking different markets and designs here . Just like HD has stuck to an older design that gives up a few ponies to the design used by Polaris . Company culture at work .

 Dusty

[canuguzzi]

Maybe they aren't done with the v9. Just a thought.

[Vagrant]

This is all you need to know about the personality of the engines:

Torque                     50 FP @  5750 RPM            46 FP @ 3000 RPM


Peak torque at 3,000 rpm will make for a more tractable engine.  If tractable is what you're wanting...

and it's all good until you are going uphill at 8000 feet with a ford dually pulling a horse trailer belching un burnt diesel all over you. then it sucks!

[rocker59]

and it's all good until you are going uphill at 8000 feet with a ford dually pulling a horse trailer belching un burnt diesel all over you. then it sucks!

Horse trailer?  Could be worse than black smoke...  LOL!

[jas67]

and it's all good until you are going uphill at 8000 feet with a ford dually pulling a horse trailer belching un burnt diesel all over you. then it sucks!

That is precisely why I ride the Monster on the mountain rides where it does uphill passes much more quickly than the V7's do.

Sure, the Guzzi torque comes in lower, but, the higher end power of the Duc is only a shift or two away for lickity-split passes, even up hill behind a diesel rolling coal.

[oldbike54]

 Misread that as someone was trying to pull a horse trailer WITH a motorbike 

 "Well heck , we wassah doin' pretty good until it came time ta stop , then things got real interestin' "

  Dusty

[rocker59]

There are some things I don't follow close.  And it's not because of diesel smoke!

[lucky phil]

It's that little cost for  replacing the timing belts every two years that will convince some owners to sell them.

Ha, who the hell changes cam belts every 2 years, not me. Currently have 3 belt drive Ducatis in the fleet and have owned and worked on many more and have never bothered with this silly requirement. Never had one fail and my bikes do track work as well.
Ciao