V85 TT Demo - Test Ride - Road Test - Review merged threadfest

[Huzo]

Trieste perhaps?  Always good Gelato there!!

In Como on a Norge..?
Everything tastes good.
There’s a permanent aroma of pizza that never goes away and the crackle of a language where everyone seems to sound like Valentino Rossi.
The feel around there moves me to run the Norge through 6,000 on the up changes, just to taste the butter smooth ‘box and become enveloped in the booming Staintune bark.
The sound is intoxicating when it bounces off the rock walls.
In Como or Mandello, I feel more like I’m “living” the bike, than “riding” it.

[janguzzi]

75.9 HP at the motor in stock configuration

https://www.facebook.com/MotoRumble/videos/422707155173378/

[Huzo]

https://www.facebook.com/MotoRumble/videos/422707155173378/

That seems like enough..
Oh, and another thing..
When I was in the bike shop looking at the V85 the other day in Aylesbury, there was a new Le Mans offering with a V9 lookalike motor, or is that the same as the V 85 ?
I didn’t bother to ask the bloke.

[frans belgium]

I’d like to take a V85 from Mandello del Lario to Bellagio this time, but I’ll wait ‘till there’s a red and white one like Frans Belgium’s..
For me it HAS to be Red/White...really.
I know I’ll like it, but it has some mighty big shoes to fill if it has pretentions of sleeping with my favourite one..
She’s a little bit choosey, (I think my Norge is prettier.)
And she stills smells nice...
These are some of the views on that section from 2017...

6 years+ the difference 

[Kev m]

6 years+ the difference 

 

Also that dyno run really should shut the deniers up!

[Cam3512]

Also that dyno run really should shut the deniers up!

Certainly has.  We've got crickets...

[s1120]

OK, this sounds great.  I really haven't read or heard of ANYTHING about this bike that sounds remotely concerning.  I am having a hard time believing that it is a Guzzi.  Seriously, how did they come up with this thing?  What changed at Piaggio?  I mean, I really like my V7, but the stock suspension pretty much sucks, the seat is not great, and most of them needed some sort of map upgrade to run right, not to mention the thrust washer debacle, lack of power, etc.  In other words, V7's are great little bikes, but they are Guzzi's and it has taken about a decade for Piaggio to get them sorted. 
So how did they manage to get virtually EVERYRTHING right on the brand new V85?  It is so unlike Guzzi to be able to pull this off.  I am having a hard time believing it, and hopefully they don't start blowing up after a couple of thousand miles.   

Parden me... but I just watched the documentary on netflix the other day.....    You know its kinda like Robert johnson disappearing for a year having been a poor to fair musician, and coming back one of the best...  Was there a crossroads in Italy? Some souls getting sold??  what?    I just hope they dont screw the pooch after the sale..... 

[bad Chad]

That’s at the wheel, not the motor, right?

[Knuckle Dragger]

That’s at the wheel, not the motor, right?

Correct.  Not all dynamometers read equally, however.  Nevertheless that's an exceedingly impressive result which as previously stated should at least partially quiet those nay-sayers & detractors who seemingly wish failure upon the company.

[pete roper]

Lots of dynos with tiny horses in them. I'll believe it when I see it on a dyno I trust.

I'll ride one when the opportunity arises but the reason I don't comment on these threads any more is that anything other that sycophantic praise is frowned upon and there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that excites me about this motorbike.

Pete

[Huzo]

Yes, everyone’s opinion will have a ratio of truth, conventional wisdom, factual statements born out of a lifetime of experience and complete and utter crap..
Pete, it’s well documented on these pages that you were (correctly) sceptical bout the performance claims made regarding the V85..
There can be of course a wild variation in results gained on a dynamometer for a myriad of reasons, most of which are above my head, but unless all the calibrations are done and the various conditions are standardised, then the “results”, aren’t worth a pinch of shit.
However..
Mass is mass, metres are metres, time is time and Issac Newton is moderately skilled in the intricacies of how they all interact.
I don’t have enough life experience to cross swords with anyone who’s been fettling these old slugs since Christ died as some here have, but if someone gives me a standing start 400 metre figure and a take off weight, I’ll then know what the power calculation is in absolute reality without the idealisation that goes with results designed to get would be buyers all trembly in the nether regions.
And Pete..
As I’m sure you’d admit, not everyone buys a given bike to “get excited”.
There is nothing that would get me “excited” about an overblown puffed up Griso or a convert with a chair glued to the side, but I’ll wager there’s a bigger reason than that to bring one into existence and it’s the manifestation of a degree of engineering skill and bringing together a lifetime of knowlege to produce a product “because you can”.
Clearly we all know what you mean when throwing the term around and as one of many that have thrown a fair amount of cash over the bar to get one, I’ll happily admit that I’m not “excited” either, but when I get a shot of mine at the tip of Cape York, Cape Tribulation, Cape of Good Hope or Cape Cod, I’ll be pretty damn aroused and there’s a better than average chance that I’ll need to take my leave for a few minutes...
Sure the power figure won’t be what they say, but..
I just don’t care, I wish that Guzzi had never made the claim in the first place..
Oh, and one more thing guys.
PLEASE.. Stop saying that a machine “puts out power” it grates on the nerves.
There are a few books on the subject that can be borrowed at the local library..

[frans belgium]

Well, it pushed all MY buttons, that's all that matters to ME.  And frankly, my dear, I don't give a rat's ass about horsepower.
If I'd want it, I'd buy a Ferrari, never a Guzzi, ANY Guzzi 

[Huzo]

Well, it pushed all MY buttons, that's all that matters to ME.  And frankly, my dear, I don't give a rat's ass about horsepower.
If I'd want it, I'd buy a Ferrari, never a Guzzi, ANY Guzzi 

Yeah Franz.
But I think the point from those that are worth listening to is..
It doesn’t matter if the bike has mediocre, fantastic or downright shithouse performance, it’s being cajoled into buying something on a false premise that Pete and others rallied against.
That is a fair point that will always stand.
And BTW.
I’m heading down to Dover today for the crossing to France and will be in Paris Tuesday night barring mishap.
Most likely leaving Thursday morning so if a window opened in Belgium, I could swing by, but I understand maybe not.

[janguzzi]

The link I posted show 75.9 at the motor.
All dynos results I have seen show approx. 75-76 HP at the motor.
Of course is it measured at the wheel and then calculated afterwards.
So far it seems that the V85TT does not deliver the values which were promised.

If this is okay for potential buyers...so why not but it might be a problem when this will be published in magazines where Guzzi has to compete with others.

[pete roper]

You don't get it.

It's not the power figure or even the crappy backwards looking technology.

IT'S THE LYING AND BULLSHIT AND THE FACT THAT IF THERE ARE ANY PROBLEMS THE NEW OWNERS WILL BE SCREWED OVER BECAUSE PIAGGIO COULDN'T LIE STRAIGHT IN BED.

Perhaps it's time I signed out for a while.

[Turin]

So what your really tryin to say is that you are less than enthused?

[Huzo]

You don't get it.

It's not the power figure or even the crappy backwards looking technology.

IT'S THE LYING AND BULLSHIT AND THE FACT THAT IF THERE ARE ANY PROBLEMS THE NEW OWNERS WILL BE SCREWED OVER BECAUSE PIAGGIO COULDN'T LIE STRAIGHT IN BED.

Perhaps it's time I signed out for a while.

Why.
A bit of undiluted truth never hurt anyone...
Somewhat of a rarity these days.

[janguzzi]

@ Pete: I am also not pleased at all what happened to the brand after Piaggio took over.
Killing the 8V CARC bikes was such a stupid move.
I love my 8V Griso. This engine and drivetrain is by far the best what Guzzi ever did (thanks to Ivano Beggio, Aprilia).
If they could just add 8V CARC Euro5 ABS bikes to the current portfolio again ...

And I still think that Guzzi could find a better owner (just look at the success of Ducati).
But nevertheless the V85TT seems to be a decent small block Guzzi.

[Litre1000]

I don’t even own a Guzzi yet. (I was gonna buy that Sport MedicAndy bought out from under me). So after studying-up on the marque for the past two years, it seems like the brand has been “neutered”. Sure, the 1400 is big, but lacking a floating bevel-drive. And, it really should put out more power for its size. The smaller bikes have no floating bevel-drive and really look like entry level bikes. And the new V85 has no linkage in the rear suspension (cheap). No floating bevel-drive (cheap). And that engine does not seem to be a next-generation version of the Griso motor. While all the other brands are clearly moving forward in a technical sense, Guzzi is being dragged backwards. Their offerings are nothing more than a marketing ploy. Now, if your not bothered by that, no harm / no foul. But it clearly won’t catch the attention of others and entice them to switch brands. No growth equals death in this market. Now I have to go search for another one-owner Sport 1100..... 

[Tusayan]

Fairly obviously the power output of the V85TT is exactly what was claimed, and the bike is attracting more attention from non-Guzzi buyers than any bike in living memory.  It does that by being a better bike, not a worse bike 

On the other side of the coin I've been riding Guzzis since 1987 and it's also the first Guzzi since Aprilia took over that I would consider buying, because it's an intelligent bike that captures Guzzis values of simplicity and style, by all accounts has really good on the road performance, and is competitively priced. The motorcycle world is indeed moving forward, and where it's going better aligns with Guzzi traditions.  More, more, more and bigger, bigger, bigger is finally slipping into past.

BTW, the chain driven OHC engine was created by Piaggio, not by Aprilia which at that time built bikes using engines bought from other companies, principally Rotax.  The Griso prototype was created by Aprilia with a (Guzzi designed) Centauro engine, in the 2000/01 time frame. There are photos on the web and I had a pass to see the prototype at EICMA in September 2001.  Production was then stalled due to lack of money at Aprilia, plus the Centauro engine being uneconomic to produce.  After Piaggio took over they put the bike into production with the 2V/cylinder engine for one year (2007) while they (Piaggio Pontedera) redesigned the 4V/cylinder engine.

[Lcarlson]

Well, it pushed all MY buttons, that's all that matters to ME.  And frankly, my dear, I don't give a rat's ass about horsepower.
If I'd want it, I'd buy a Ferrari, never a Guzzi, ANY Guzzi 

Frans, I would be interested to know your candid opinion of how the V85 compares with your former F700GS.

[Cage Free]

Certainly has.  We've got crickets...

So it has less HP than my Stelvio but much less weight which should make performance pretty close, can't wait for my test ride on the 17th to compare with my seat of the pants dyno. If its even close its a win.

[usedtobefast]

At the demo ride I went to ... it started at 10am, and by 11:30 3 deposits had been put down on bikes.  Not sure if they will sell a bike every 30 minutes for the 2 days of demos rides, but that was a pretty interesting stat.   

On the power side, it was kind of funny as I was riding my Griso minutes after riding the v85.  I bought my Griso for the engine and I put up with a few things I don't like about the complete motorcycle.  On the V85, it does a lot of wonderful things and the motor is nice.  So a "motor guy" will most likely ride the v85 and complain about it.  Not sure if you guys know about V-Stroms much, but a lot of guys buy the 650 instead of the 1000, the 650 is a very wonderful bike where everything works so well together ... the v85 is like that .... it is almost like they took a v-strom 650 and made every aspect of it better ... that's a very good thing.

As for the non-linkage suspension, KTM's done that for ages (PDS) and they win offroad world championships with no linkage ... and the v85 suspension is excellent.  So I actually like it a lot.  No linkage bearings to wear out or need to maintain, easy to pull shock if needed, easy to adjust spring preload (I actually like that they have the simple pre-load adjuster) ... what's  not to like?   

[Tusayan]

As for the non-linkage suspension, KTM's done that for ages (PDS) and they win offroad world championships with no linkage ... and the v85 suspension is excellent.  So I actually like it a lot.  No linkage bearings to wear out or need to maintain, easy to pull shock if needed, easy to adjust spring preload (I actually like that they have the simple pre-load adjuster) ... what's  not to like?   

Linkage (rising rate) rear suspension is one of those complexities that some think provides better suspension quality but which actually makes little difference, particularly on a bike with long travel.  A single shock on the side works well on many bikes in my experience.

Re anti-torque linkage, you can see the bike rising slightly under full throttle in the dyno test but none of the testers mention it on the road.  That surprised me and I can only assume the swing arm is long enough in relation to torque that the effect is well hidden.  If so that's great, a single u-joint and less pivots etc is better in every other respect.

[s1120]

Linkage (rising rate) rear suspension is one of those complexities that some think provides better suspension quality but which actually makes little difference, particularly on a bike with long travel.  A single shock on the side works well on many bikes in my experience.

Re anti-torque linkage, you can see the bike rising slightly under full throttle in the dyno test but none of the testers mention it on the road.  That surprised me and I can only assume the swing arm is long enough in relation to torque that the effect is well hidden.  If so that's great, a single u-joint and less pivots etc is better in every other respect.

Right... if it works it works..With or without all the bells and whistles.... if it works it works.

[frans belgium]

Frans, I would be interested to know your candid opinion of how the V85 compares with your former F700GS.

Well, the Guzzi does everything the Beemer does just as well or better. It has the same ease of driving and the same comfy position ( I had a comfort seat on the Beemer). It is more stable though straight out and in long turns. (Tyres in bith cases Pirelli scorpion trail 2) and the pillion has more room and is comfier. Consumes about the same (4.8 l/100 km).  Wind protection with standard screen is a bit better. It has no chain and certainly sounds better.  More torque in lower rpm. Have 600 km in a week by now and already fond of it. Could do with heated grips, not yet available as it is still cold in Belgium. Plus for the Beemer are the vario ( adjustable) cases, tubeless rims and slightly lower weight. Dash of the Guzzi reads a lit better.  Just hopes it's water tight after my problems with both my Breva and Norge.

[Cam3512]

I don’t even own a Guzzi yet. (I was gonna buy that Sport MedicAndy bought out from under me). So after studying-up on the marque for the past two years, it seems like the brand has been “neutered”. Sure, the 1400 is big, but lacking a floating bevel-drive. And, it really should put out more power for its size. The smaller bikes have no floating bevel-drive and really look like entry level bikes. And the new V85 has no linkage in the rear suspension (cheap). No floating bevel-drive (cheap). And that engine does not seem to be a next-generation version of the Griso motor. While all the other brands are clearly moving forward in a technical sense, Guzzi is being dragged backwards. Their offerings are nothing more than a marketing ploy. Now, if your not bothered by that, no harm / no foul. But it clearly won’t catch the attention of others and entice them to switch brands. No growth equals death in this market. Now I have to go search for another one-owner Sport 1100.....

So after all that “floating bevel-drive” (not even sure what that is) blather, you’re setting out to find one of the most un-refined Guzzi’s out there?

[pete roper]

Linkage (rising rate) rear suspension is one of those complexities that some think provides better suspension quality but which actually makes little difference, particularly on a bike with long travel.  A single shock on the side works well on many bikes in my experience.

Re anti-torque linkage, you can see the bike rising slightly under full throttle in the dyno test but none of the testers mention it on the road.  That surprised me and I can only assume the swing arm is long enough in relation to torque that the effect is well hidden.  If so that's great, a single u-joint and less pivots etc is better in every other respect.

I've got to disagree about rising rate suspension. I've long been a fan. Likewise reactive rear drives but each to their own.

WRT the bolded bit above the V85 doesn't use a single UJ like earlier smallblocks. It's a shaft with a trunnion at each end with considerable sideways offset which I have to wonder whether it will impact coupling life. I hope not.

Pete

[Litre1000]

So after all that “floating bevel-drive” (not even sure what that is) blather, you’re setting out to find one of the most un-refined Guzzi’s out there?

Yes I am. I want to experience the rawness of such a bike. It’s a whole lot cheaper than the V85. Has the same power. It’s a sportier chassis that I prefer. Has the floating rear hub that eliminates rear suspension jacking. I’m not a fan of this whole retro thing. It seems phony to me. It just seems like they put more effort into the Stelvio. And...KTM tried the linkage-less rear shock and it (PDS) got replaced with a linkage design years ago.

[jacksonracingcomau]

Yes I am. I want to experience the rawness of such a bike. It’s a whole lot cheaper than the V85. Has the same power. It’s a sportier chassis that I prefer. Has the floating rear hub that eliminates rear suspension jacking. I’m not a fan of this whole retro thing. It seems phony to me. It just seems like they put more effort into the Stelvio. And...KTM tried the linkage-less rear shock and it (PDS) got replaced with a linkage design years ago.

2019 790 Adventure all new with pds just out
Parallel Universe on the net ?