v7 and Rox Risers: is this normal?

[Rhodan]

I wanted the handlebars to come up and back a bit so I had the dealer put some Rox 2" pivoting risers on my new V7iii.  Something isn't right though and I wonder if anyone has ideas on how to fix it.  Or maybe if the risers just aren't a good idea.

Here's the problem:  Even with everything tightened down, I can torque the handlebars slightly.  By that I mean the front tire doesn't move but I can push on one side of handlebars and get them to shift slightly.  The handlebars end up not quite pointing the same direction as the tires.  It's definitely not the riser pivoting up (which would indicate I just don't have something clamped down well enough).  It's one side of the handlebar torquing forward.

When I took the handlebars and risers back off, I can see why it's happening.  I just don't know if I'm missing some part of the Rox risers, if they weren't installed properly,  or ...?  I'm hoping someone has words of wisdom.

I can take a picture if helpful but I'll do my best to explain what's moving and allowing the handbar to skew.

The base steering plate (yoke?) has two components coming up out of it that normally cradle the handlebar.  Then there are two plates which go over the top of the handlebar and everything is bolted together.

Those bottom two components (the cradles) swivel as I found out when I disconnected the handlebar and risers to figure out what was going on.  I did check the nuts on the bottom side of the steering plate and they were plenty tight so I'm assuming the swiveling is normal.  Typically, the handlebar would span the gap between the two swiveling cradles and provide the rigidity needed to stop the cradles from moving.

In the case of the rox risers, each riser is bolted into the swiveling cradle then the handlebar is bolted on top of the rox riser.  The rigidity the handlebar provides is now farther removed from the swiveling cradles.  So when I push on one side of the handlebar, those bottom cradles are swiveling slightly and the handlebar is no longer true. 

Call me old-fashioned but I like my handlebars pointing the same direction as my tires. 

Anyone have thoughts on what has gone awry here?

I will call the dealer on Tuesday but if I can take care of the issue myself, I'd much rather do that.

[Rhodan]

Some additional background.  I've ridden the bike over 600 miles with the risers and didn't notice anything amiss.  At that time the risers were straight up (didn't have them pivoted).
 I had the bike in for its 600 mi service and asked the dealer to adjust them for me.  Drop the bars a bit and bring them back toward me.  When I got the bike back, something seemed a little off with the handlebars but I shrugged.  By the time I got it home, I noticed things were even more askew and started digging into the 'why'.

[oldbike54]

 Sounds like a spacer is missing . Pics would help .

 Dusty

[Tom H]

I have Rox Risers on my EV and they work great. The original short risers are very much like yours and work fine with the Rox.

I looked at a parts diagram for a V7III. There is the lower yoke, a bolt, 2 bushings, a spacer that fits in the bushings, a washer and a nut.

If the lower yoke is moving, I would make sure all the parts are there, especially the spacer and that it is installed properly. If I'm reading this right, it was after the dealer adjusted them for you. Maybe they missed something??

Thinking that the bike is relatively new, I would not think that the bushings would be bad. But you never know. My 2007 HD riser bushings were shot. The bushings would allow you to move the bars back and forth, but never lock forward or back, the bars always came back to center.

Tom

[Rhodan]

Thanks for both your responses.

Dusty, I'll get some pictures taken today and post them.  An additonal bit of info that may help:  if push up or down on the grips equally at the same time, there's no movement.  It's only if I push on one or the other that the handlebar racks/torques.

Tom:  I'll take another look at the diagram to make sure I'm calling thr right thing by the right name.  It's possible the dealer left something out from the adjustment but I don't think so.  I believe they just loosened the hex bolts on the riser to let it pivot and then retightened them.  I do know they had difficulty getting to 2 of the hex bolts on the risers (when it tits, the clearance to get a wrench/key in reduces).  Initially I thought that was the problem:  that one of the risers was pivoting a little.  I bought some stubby hex keys and made sure they were torqued down.

[Rhodan]

Here's some pics.
Pic 1 is the full Rox Riser shot from the bottom.  I've circled the nut which I checked and is tight.
Pic 2 is a side shot of the Riser.  I've circled the part that pivots from side to side if remove the handlebars.  I suspect this swiveling is what is causing the handlebars to rack/point in slightly the wrong direction.
Pic 3 is a top shot with 6 of the 8 hex heads showing.   In this shot, everything is lined up fairly well.  I can take a shot tonight of things not lined up if helpful.

[Bisbonian]

Some people with Rox risers have complained of a similar experience.

The fix for many has been a couple of turns of electrical tape, or similar, around the post to take up some space and make the fit tight.
Others have claimed this is a "feature", I don't agree with them as I think there should be no movement in that joint.

[Rhodan]

I agree with your not agreement!

They just wrap it around the pivot part of the riser?  (The part that sits where the handlebar did).  I'll give that a shot and see how it goes.

I did read something about sandpaper when I was researching the issue.  Might be for the same reason just a slightly different fix.

[Tom H]

In pic 2  you circled what I'm calling the lower yoke. In pic 1 you show the nut that secures the lower yoke and mentioned it's tight. In pic 3 you showed the 6 of 8 bolts that tighten the risers to the triple tree and the bars, all tight. So far so good.

Just to be clear, the Rox risers are NOT rotating in the lower yoke, just the lower yoke in the top triple clamp moves??? When your sitting on the bike and hold the front brake on, then push, pull, rotate the handlebars you can see the lower yoke move???

The lower yoke rides in two bushing to cut down on handlebar vibration. You should not be able to feel any movement. The lower yoke should not be able to move enough in the top triple clamp for the bars to twist and stay twisted. My HD bushings were shot and would allow the bars to pull back when you start moving, then when you hit the brakes the bars moved forward. Made for a really disconnected ride

Tom

[RinkRat II]

 Rhodan,

Those bottom two components (the cradles) swivel as I found out when I disconnected the handlebar and risers to figure out what was going on.  I did check the nuts on the bottom side of the steering plate and they were plenty tight so I'm assuming the swiveling is normal.  Typically, the handlebar would span the gap between the two swiveling cradles and provide the rigidity needed to stop the cradles from moving.

    Those two risers and bushing assemblies should not move or swivel as you suggest. there may be a spacer or shoulder on those bolts that is not allowing the bolts to compress the rubber bushings all the way. I would pull those apart and see if the bolts are the problem or a spacer out of place.

     Paul B

[Tom H]

Rhodan,

    Those two risers and bushing assemblies should not move or swivel as you suggest. there may be a spacer or shoulder on those bolts that is not allowing the bolts to compress the rubber bushings all the way. I would pull those apart and see if the bolts are the problem or a spacer out of place.

     Paul B

I was kinda thinking this as well.

Tom

[Trialsman]

That is a common problem which is due to too many joints.  1:Handlebar clamps, 2:Rox riser clamp, 3: Triple clamp posts.  Any tiny variation in any or all makes it twist on you.  When I first started using Rox I looked at the problem and solved it by turning a spacer that went between the ends of the Rox parts.  The older ones were hollow so I just machined it to snugly fit at it totally solved the problem of the triple clamp posts pivoting.  Looks like you will have to drill out the centers of the Rox to fabricate your spacer.  To be totally effective the spacer must have a shoulder that hits the Rox on each side then necks down to be inserted into the Rox.  That used to drive me crazy until I discovered the fix.  Good luck.

[Rhodan]

Just to be clear, the Rox risers are NOT rotating in the lower yoke, just the lower yoke in the top triple clamp moves??? When your sitting on the bike and hold the front brake on, then push, pull, rotate the handlebars you can see the lower yoke move???

Correct.  Just the lower yoke is moving.  If I push up or down on the handlebars in an even fashion (equally on both sides).  There is no movement of anything.
If I push on one side of the handlebars (either side), I get a bit of swivel of the lower yoke which then racks the handlebar.  At that point, the handlebar is no longer pointing in exactly the same direction as the front tire.  It does not spring back.

The lower yoke rides in two bushing to cut down on handlebar vibration. You should not be able to feel any movement. The lower yoke should not be able to move enough in the top triple clamp for the bars to twist and stay twisted. My HD bushings were shot and would allow the bars to pull back when you start moving, then when you hit the brakes the bars moved forward. Made for a really disconnected ride

Yeah, the lower yokes definitely move.  If I remove the handlebar, both lower yokes swivel from side to side with modest hand pressure. 

Sounds like I need to talk to the dealer.  I can't think the 600 mile tuneup (or riser adjustment) would have touched that part of the bike but something sounds amiss.

[Rhodan]

    Those two risers and bushing assemblies should not move or swivel as you suggest. there may be a spacer or shoulder on those bolts that is not allowing the bolts to compress the rubber bushings all the way.
     Paul B

Thanks Paul (working my way through replies).  I had thought the swivel might be by-design:  a feature to handle a variety of bar designs.  Sounds like it's not.

[Rhodan]

That is a common problem which is due to too many joints.  1:Handlebar clamps, 2:Rox riser clamp, 3: Triple clamp posts.  Any tiny variation in any or all makes it twist on you.  When I first started using Rox I looked at the problem and solved it by turning a spacer that went between the ends of the Rox parts. 

Ah, and that may be spacer Dusty was probably talking about.  Yeah, I can totally see having a bar there to keep them "in synch" would be better:  offer more rigidity.

I'll talk to the dealer and see what they say.  I may just take the risers off for my trip next week and sort this out later. 
If anyone knows of risers which will work on a V7iii and have a different design, I'd happily take a look at them.

Appreciate all the replies/ideas.

[Rhodan]

Maybe I just need to install one of these. 

[Tom H]

If YOU can remove the risers and put the bars back to stock and the problem persists, then I think the bushing is the most likely issue.

If it goes away, then it's most likely the riser.

I don't know the company that makes them, but they use a length of bar that fits in just like the stock handlebars. Then the risers are attached to that bar and then to the handlebars. This would be like having basically what Trailsman did to the Rox.

If the issue is what Trailsman described. Maybe my EV does not have this issue because I used the one piece stock top clamp.




Tom

[Rhodan]

If YOU can remove the risers and put the bars back to stock and the problem persists, then I think the bushing is the most likely issue.

If it goes away, then it's most likely the riser.
Tom

True 'dat.  Experimenting commencing hopefully this evening.

[Tom H]

These are the style I was talking about with the bar that you put in place of the handlebars. Not the length you want, but it's the idea:




Another option IF the riser is the problem would be to find a 1 piece top clamp like my EV has. That might add the stability like Trailsman mentioned.

One more option if the bottom width is correct:




But first, again, see what the bars do without the risers. Then explore the other options.

Tom

[John Croucher]

Are there rubber bushings in the upper triple clamp where the Rox are attached?  On my California, I could twist the end of the handle bars 2 inches after hitting the stop with the rubber bushings installed.  I removed the bushings and replaced them with a hard spacer.  Bar are now solid mounted to triple clamp. 

[Tom H]

One last thing. Before you start playing with your bars. Take a soft bath towel or 3 or the like and pad your gas tank, keep it from getting scratched if you have an oopsie!

Tom

[oldbike54]

 Is it time for beer can shims ?

 Dusty

[Tom H]

I had to shim the bottom of the riser to fit my lower yokes. Yes, beer can strips fit perfectly

Tom

[sign216]

Is it time for beer can shims ?

 Dusty

Shades of Pirsig and Zen.....?

[Rhodan]

Is it time for beer can shims ?

 Dusty

  Don't think I haven't thought it.

Tom, good idea on the towels.  I slipped once yesterday and think I now have a character spot.

[Rhodan]

And survey says..... having the lower yokes turn is absolutely normal on the v7iii.  See pic below.
Once I took the risers off and restored the bars to their original configuration there's absolutely no flex, racking, or other handlebar shenanigans.

Part of the problem with the risers was an inability by myself or the dealer to adequately tighten down all 4 screws going into the lower yoke due to lack of clearance when the riser was pivoted forward.  When I took the risers back off, the two difficult-to-reach hex bolts were much looser than I would have liked.

And speaking of hex screws (bolts?):  two thumbs up to the Bondhus stubbies (see pic).  Quality hex keys that made the job a lot easier.  A "meh" to the Neiko set.  The hex portion of the wrench popped out after the 2nd use and I lost (and found) it 4 times in the course of working on the handlebars.  A shame because part of it feels like a quality tool. 

The only other thing which might have made this easier was a stubby hex key with a ball end on the stubby side.

Pics of turning yokes and quality hex keys:

[Tom H]

 

Tom

[Rhodan]

Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions.
If I want to give it another go later, I might consider this clamp.  It would keep the yokes/risers much more rigid.
https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=95586&sku=606795M&description=OEM+Moto+Guzzi+Black+H%27bar+Up%2E+Clamp+-606795M

[geoff in almonte]

You could try different handlebars (stating the obvious)

Or a different brand of riser - there are several out there.  Perhaps ones that replace the stock risers in the triple tree?

IMHO the Rox risers introduce too many pivot points.

G

[joe-dean]

why not change to taller handlebars ?  seems a lot easier too me