NGC Fatalties per state

[pehayes]

It  would be interesting to know what the average IQ of motorcycle riders is.  And, the average IQ of those who are killed while riding.  If you had those numbers, you'd have something.

IQ?  Not so fast.  I highly recommend you read "The MisMeasure of Man" by Stephen Jay Gould.  There was a brilliant mind cut short by the big C. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Jay_Gould

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Lannis]

IQ?  Not so fast.  I highly recommend you read "The MisMeasure of Man" by Stephen Jay Gould.  There was a brilliant mind cut short by the big C. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Jay_Gould

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

I recommend reading it too, so you can get an idea of how religious fanaticism (his own religion) can warp even a brilliant mind.   Almost nothing he proposed is actually working out when faced with reality, and it won't be long before .....

But I digress.  I doubt seriously if the sample size and method will show IQ to be a factor in motorcycle fatalities.   I agree with the 1) Riding Weather and 2) Tendency to alcohol while riding (which as we all know has little relation to IQ and more to addiction) can explain most of the differences we see.

Lannis

[Lannis]

I find it amazing that when I go riding if I stop somewhere for an Iced Tea all of the bikers sitting guzzling beer and then sharing the road with me.  I just shake my head and wonder how they make it home.

 

I don't drink at all while I'm on the road.   I will say, though, after many thousands of mile riding in England with English friends, that it is considered perfectly normal and acceptable even among the more virulent safety-centered guys, to stop and have 1 pint of ale in the middle of a ride.   I don't know what effect a pint of hand-pulled ale has on one's BAC, but it can't be much, because I've never seen any change in any Englishman's behavior after that.

I don't recommend it, though.   Too many people have no control over what they imbibe, and it'll go wrong somewhere ....

Lannis

[Gnirwin]

I have 2 close acquaintances who have had serious accidents. The first after having some drinks, driving at dark has no recollection as to why he ran off road and hit a mail box. He had no helmet on or protective gear and suffered permanent brain damage. The second was on a group ride, no helmet or gear. He had made comments that he had tires with very little tread left. On an extremely twisty road, riding a heavy cruiser, he got caught in the rain, slid around a corner and fell in the oncoming lane where a car struck him and killed him. Both accidents could have been prevented I believe. a very dangerous thing we do and if we throw caution to the wind it makes it all the more dangerous. Generally speaking I think we who ride have a bit of daredevil in us. A cautious person probably wouldn't be participating in our sport. This mindset makes some  of us take chances beyond what is safe and practical.

[Dilliw]

 

I don't drink at all while I'm on the road.   I will say, though, after many thousands of mile riding in England with English friends, that it is considered perfectly normal and acceptable even among the more virulent safety-centered guys, to stop and have 1 pint of ale in the middle of a ride.   I don't know what effect a pint of hand-pulled ale has on one's BAC, but it can't be much, because I've never seen any change in any Englishman's behavior after that.

I don't recommend it, though.   Too many people have no control over what they imbibe, and it'll go wrong somewhere ....

Lannis

I'm no saint and will take a pint for lunch.  Hey sometimes I don't wear all of my gear either.   

I do adhere to the  one per hour rule however; with the bike there's no need to rush and with the car it's easy to hand the keys to Kim. 

[Lannis]

I'm no saint and will take a pint for lunch..... 

Well, now, just because I don't drink at all on the road doesn't imply that I consider myself a "saint".   My falls from the straight and narrow are in many different directions .... !

Lannis

[SeanF]

More stats on helmet law states, and what happens when those laws change:

https://www.iihs.org/topics/motorcycles#helmet-laws

[not-fishing]

Yeah well I dispute any "studies" that do not show California and other megalopolis states as not being a #1 killer for motorcyclists.  People should just spend some "quality time" commuting in LA or SF or San Jose or Berkeley and then tell me what they think.

[Dilliw]

Well, now, just because I don't drink at all on the road doesn't imply that I consider myself a "saint".   My falls from the straight and narrow are in many different directions .... !

Lannis

Yes they are!!!!   

[JohninVT]

How can NH possibly be that low?  5 or 6 people die every year during Bike Week alone. 

[quota2000]

I’d say all the states at the low end of IQ have a poor public education system and a high percentage of people who don’t value education. I was born and raised in Iowa. I can tell you with certainty the average Iowan gets a much better primary/secondary education than the average Californian. Urban poverty and the associated lack of parenting is a big factor in California.

Back to the basic idea that stupidity is not a factor in many motorcycle crashes/fatalities, you were saying?

IQ and education are two completely different measurements.  One's IQ does not measurably increase with more, or "better" education.

[vstevens]

I'll bet Finding a Chi square value on the IQ numbers by state will show that the state values are not significantly different from each other - any differences are just due to random chance. 

[LBC Tenni]

IQ and education are two completely different measurements.  One's IQ does not measurably increase with more, or "better" education.

You’re completely wrong. Have a read:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29911926

https://psychcentral.com/news/2018/06/24/study-shows-education-boosts-iq/136418.html

[Devildog]

I would hope that DWI is reduced with the younger generation. Designated drivers, zero tolerance, and other social influences have hopefully helped. It's a stupid way to die, and to risk killing others is morally wrong..

[Lannis]

I would hope that DWI is reduced with the younger generation. Designated drivers, zero tolerance, and other social influences have hopefully helped. It's a stupid way to die, and to risk killing others is morally wrong..

I suggest that the lower number of DWIs has been replaced with an even higher number of DWT (texting).   All the things you mentioned, including the reduction in "social acceptability" of drunk driving that helped Foster Brooks' and Dean Martin's careers so much, has been a help.

But texting while driving is still completely socially acceptable, so much so that I have heard a mother berate her son for not returning her message while he was driving, telling him that he needed to learn to "multi-task" like she did.   There's no "moral" issues for texters, since nobody but them understands that their time is SO ******* important compared to your life potential lost in a car wreck, that they HAVE to text and talk.   Not a moral issue at all to them, just amazement that you would think that they would stop texting and driving ....

Lannis

[pebra]

I'll bet Finding a Chi square value on the IQ numbers by state will show that the state values are not significantly different from each other - any differences are just due to random chance.

I wish I had the IQ to comprehend that!

[Fulton_Cali]

I'll bet Finding a Chi square value on the IQ numbers by state will show that the state values are not significantly different from each other - any differences are just due to random chance.

I NEVER post here as I could never be as wise and funny as most of the commenters on this board but I love reading so much here. But for once I have something to say!  As a psychologist (clinical, not practicing), I can tell you it wouldn't a chi-square. It could be an ANOVA, as CHI square is for categorical data. IQ is presumed to be continuous data--interval-scale, in fact. So, parametric tests like ANOVA can be used. However, you would have 50 levels of the independent variable and ANOVA is an omnibus test, so. . .to find any significant difference, you'd have to do 1,225 pairwise comparisons for a Type I error rate of. . .out of this world. There are more sophisticated statistical techniques for modeling differences across lots of groups like 50 states, but anyway. Enough stats.

The larger problem in any research idea like this is sampling and measurement. First, to my knowledge, nobody has a great epidemiological data set of intelligence scores for any state, let alone all 50--i.e., intelligence scores from a large, well-validated and reliable test using a proper random stratified sample of the population. Most "IQ" scores you see from states are from online junk tests and the like, which don't correlate all that well with actual intelligence tests, like the Wechsler or Stanford-Binet tests (and yes, education does influence intelligence for those wondering--see crystallized versus fluid intelligence, both of which intelligence tests measure).

So, this starts with a sample that is really biased, and then uses measures that aren't valid or reliable, and you get some seriously compromised data. I think the question of "do certain state populations exhibit lower scores on standardized measures of intelligence?" is virtually unknowable based on pragmatic concerns. If somebody wants to spend $100 million to answer this question, I would be happy to be your Principal Investigator. 

I suspect that if you did the work and tested large segments of the population stratified by state, and the sampling regime was sophisticated enough to get you a representative sample, you would find differences--primarily because some states have far more educated populaces than others, and income does relate to intelligence for all sorts of obvious reasons at the population level (I'm broke, so obviously don't transfer this inference to the case level). But that's me hypothesizing and nothing more.

And as for making mistakes, I whole-heartedly agree with Dusty. Smart people make mistakes ALL the time. Most motorcyclists know that accidents don't happen as often in the first year of riding. Old studies showed it was in the second to third, after complacency set in. For great case studies on this, you don't have to look far--just check out general aviation accident investigations (youtube has lots of fascinating ones that can serve as cautionary tales of judgment failure that translate really well to motorcycling). You'll find lots of folks of likely well above-average intelligence who, through a chain of poor decisions, ended up dying of complacency. One youtube pilot said once after aborting a flight for weather, "In aviation, you don't have to be anywhere. You just have to be safe." Jay Leno said the best advice he ever got on riding a motorcycle was to never ride your bike when you need to be somewhere at a certain time.

And finally, just because this whole topic got me thinking about safety, Proficient Motorcycling is the book that changed me forever in terms of how I think about my riding and safety. 

[oldbike54]

 ^^^ Words from a real expert , thanks Fulton Cali 

 Dusty

[Hymes Inc.]

I am loathe to make statements about the relative intelligence of the residents in a different state . IQ tests are funny things , not always indicative of much . Try taking a couple of different tests , they can and often are weighted in such a way that the results vary wildly .

 Dusty

I agree. Give those tests in Spanish instead of English and watch the results. English as a 1st language is not an indication of intelligence. Too many variables. And I sort of remember from the famous Hurt report that accidents were most likely in the 1st 6 months of becoming a rider. Newbies. I could be wrong on that one.

[wymple]

Last post was mine, not my son Chris. He logged on at my house and I failed to notice.

[Fulton_Cali]

I agree. Give those tests in Spanish instead of English and watch the results. English as a 1st language is not an indication of intelligence. Too many variables. And I sort of remember from the famous Hurt report that accidents were most likely in the 1st 6 months of becoming a rider. Newbies. I could be wrong on that one.

You're probably thinking of this little bit from the Hurt Report: More than half of the accident-involved motorcycle riders had less than 5 months experience on the accident motorcycle, although the total street riding experience was almost 3 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_findings_in_the_Hurt_Report

The overall experience curve tends to suggest that newbies aren't the issue--brand new folks are pretty cautious. It's when folks get a little complacent that things go wrong.

David