Rear Wheel Question 850-T Exporting to AUS question

[swooshdave]

So my 850-T is going to Australia. Apparently this rare model is even rarer there.

Anyways, the nice gentleman who bought is trying to avoid governmental red tape (fines) for bringing in the brake pads (asbestos is apparently not good for Australia, although you can buy it there?). He's asking me to remove the old brake pads and shoes.

The pads are no big deal, I can remove the pads and zip tie the caliper onto the fork leg so the inspectors can stick their noses up next to the asbestos dust.

For the rear shoes, can I remove the rear wheel and reassemble the axle without the brake drum attached? Any suggestions on how to show that the brake shoes are not in the bike?

[swooshdave]

Have you decided how to address the issue or are you leaving that completely up to the importer?

This guy is using Ameroz and he’s never done this before. Hopefully they have a good reputation. I haven’t looked into them yet.

[swooshdave]

I would think the importer would take care of it as part of the service. I’m happy to help but also don’t want to take it too far apart.

[pehayes]

I wouldn't leave the front caliper dangling.  Someone will surely grab the front handle and blow brake fluid past all the puck seals.  You might consider making up dummy, wooden brake pads and installing those as substitutes to protect the caliper.  Might actually even work to stop the bike when hand rolling it around the warehouse.

As to the rear shoe brake, can you reassemble without the brake backing plate in position?  The wheel might be a little loose, but it will still roll.  Zip tie the brake plate somewhere else onto the bike.

As for Ameroz.  I had to help a Tasmanian guest ship a LoopFrame from Los Angeles.  While Ameroz said all the paperwork was in order, the US Customs people didn't agree and wouldn't allow export.  Psst!  They (Customs actually) suggested that a 'rolling frame' and a 'separated motor' would not equal a motorcycle and could thus be exported without issue as 'parts'.  Quick call to Mark at Moto Guzzi Classics.  He picked it up from the Ameroz warehouse, pulled the motor/transmission unit and returned it back to the Ameroz warehouse.  A few unexpected dollars spent but the frame/motor/transmission are now all happily back together as a single unit in Tasmania.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[swooshdave]

I assume the Loop was a restoration project and not a running bike?

I’m more inclined to stuff a shim in the caliper than to make up dummy pads.

[Roy gardner]

Hey Guys, Im not an Australian, I live next door, but watch the Aussies carefully. There was a time when I might have taken a bike over for a ride but their asbestos ban has made it difficult.
I do believe that the Australian gentleman will need to get a declaration form which declares that there is no asbestos in the brakes, gaskets etc. and they do police it pretty staunchly.
I suggest that you put it to him that you, or he, buy new pads which come with a manufacturers declaration saying they are"asbestos free".
 I sense that you are reluctant to remove the shoes off the brake plate, I know they are a curse without an expander tool, I have 3 drums on my Sport.
If you can find new shoes, or a brake shop to put new linings on with another "asbestos free" declaration it should be sorted but that is heart ache & money for you unless you can get him to cough up. 

Then there are the head & exhaust ring gaskets, did he mention that?

[reidy]

I am in Australia and can confirm that you can't import asbestos and it is illegal to sell the stuff. Yes it could be purchased 15 years ago and it will still be fitted to old cars here. I have a close acquaintance that imports about 5 containers of bikes a year and have spoken to him about this.

You apparently need a deceleration that the bike contains no asbestos but since every bike coming into the country will have this certificate it does not mean your bike wont be selected for close attention.

What my friend does is have the shoes removed and disconnects the linkage. It is easy to move the arm on the drum to show no shoes are fitted.
Just because you have removed the brakes it does not mean your bike will not attract attention, as the exhaust gasket and head gasket may contain asbestos, and may have to be removed at the dock at the importers expense (not yours). What removing the pads and the shoes achieves is it shows an inspector that you are attempting to do the right thing.

He also said that this is the first step. The second one does not affect you but the buyer/importer. I would call this the attitude test. If the bike is called out for close attention the attitude of the buyer/importer will have an effect on how far the bike needs to be disassembled.

In short if the importer/buyer appear that they have made an effort to do the right thing and nothing appear like someone is pulling a shonky, it is likely to be a smooth process. If the buyer has done his homework and selected an importer that does not have a bad temper and a habit of rubbing customs up the wrong way there will be a low percentage that the bike will get a second look.

Of course once you have the cash and sent the bike on its way it is not your problem. In the interests of being a nice human you can help the buyer as you have shown your desire to do so by removing the pads/shoes and presenting the bike in a way that it will attract as little attention as possible. This may include removing the pipes if the buyer wants as exhaust gaskets are the other likely suspect.

I hope this helps.

Steve

[swooshdave]

Of course once you have the cash and sent the bike on its way it is not your problem. In the interests of being a nice human you can help the buyer as you have shown your desire to do so by removing the pads/shoes and presenting the bike in a way that it will attract as little attention as possible. This may include removing the pipes if the buyer wants as exhaust gaskets are the other likely suspect.

I hope this helps.

Steve

If it was someone just flipping the bike I’d be less inclined to go out of my way. But if it’s someone who really wants the bike and I feel is going to take care of it I’m going to treat them the way I’d want to be treated. I'm sure it’s very stressful sending you’re hard earned money halfway across the world and hoping you eventually get a bike.

Also the Guzzi community is pretty small and although we feel we are more anonymous it’s still important to uphold your reputation. Who knows, maybe one day I’ll need to buy a bike from far away.

[1down5up]

Apart from the asbestos rig moral you need to go through (which is over the top), make sure the bike is CLEAN - a good bath and a few cans of degreser will save the guy buying your bike alot of heartache and $$$$

Australia has very strict customs requirements, especially around "bio Hazards" to protect our agriculture industries and native widlife etc. If the bike has obvious dirt etc on it they will send it for a clean in case it has some weirdo bug in it, and the cleaning solution they use can be caustic - ask me how i know . . . . . . . . not nice on alloy wheels - and the nicest thing is the importer for the hassle as well.

[swooshdave]

- and the nicest thing is the importer for the hassle as well.

So how much of this stuff should be on me and what should the importer be doing? I would assume the importer would be responsible for make sure the bike gets into the country to their client no matter what.

Like I said I will make a reasonably effort but I can't restore the bike to new just to make some customs guy happy.

[reidy]

Swooshdave

This is my take on it and everyone will have a different opinion.
I believe that all you really need to do is make the bike available to be picked up at an agreed time and in the condition it was advertised in.

It would be totally unreasonable for anyone to expect anymore.
Everything else you do depends on you. There is a very old saying in a number of different cultures that basically says that you should treat others as you would like to be treated.   

If the buyer has asked you to remove the brake shoes, they should only be asking this as a favor with no guilt attached. If it is not something you are happy to do, or can do, that is quite ok. The buyer will have to pay the importer to sort this for them. If you are the type of person that does not mind tinkering with bikes and have time on your hands you might be happy to remove the shoes and more. I hope I didn't imply that you should in my earlier response as I was just trying to explain what will most likely will need to be done for a smooth export. It is not your problem.

Story time

I purchased a Jag of an old bloke once who had got sick and could not keep it. He had it looking reasonably respectable and had a fair price. It was clear that he was not really negotiable. I decided that his price was fair and agreed to pay the asking price, unusual for me as I don't mind a haggle.
I could not pick up the car for a couple of days. When I went to pick it up he had detailed it to perfection and it came with a couple of boxes of spares. He was so happy with the sale that he could not do enough for me. He said to me that if I had tried to play hard ball on price I would not have got the extras. It was one of the best cars that I owned.

This taught me an important lesson in life that many won't agree with. A good sale is one were both the buyer and seller are happy with the outcome. I can't help thinking that the seller of the jag not only gave me a box of spares but also filled the boot (trunk) with all the good Karma that he could find.

So in summary my advise on what you should do is treat the seller as you wish to be treated, but keep in mind how the seller treated you throughout this transaction.

Steve

[swooshdave]

 I sense that you are reluctant to remove the shoes off the brake plate, I know they are a curse without an expander tool, I have 3 drums on my Sport.

Then there are the head & exhaust ring gaskets, did he mention that?

Just how hard is it to remove the shoes? I don't have the expander tool.

I will take off the exhaust and remove the rings. I think they are praying the head gaskets aren't a problem.

[Roy gardner]

It's difficult, not impossible, without the tool. I have never used a tool, just lost a bit of skin and nipped fingers. I remove the actuating arms off the splines & tap the pivots into the drum & lift the shoes off the supports at the other end with a large screw driver, from memory. Takes a bit of patience. Then the pivots & arms can be refitted, put the springs in a bag & tie them on the outside, adds cred to the removal.

[RinkRat II]

   I was curious about the difficulty on this and found the solution for ya!http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_brake_assembly_-_rear_drum_brake.html
      Tool looks simple enough to fab up and save your fingers.

        Paul B

[swooshdave]

   I was curious about the difficulty on this and found the solution for ya!http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_brake_assembly_-_rear_drum_brake.html
      Tool looks simple enough to fab up and save your fingers.

        Paul B

850-T has twin leading shoes in the back so it’ll be more complicated than the loop.

[bigbikerrick]

How about the clutch friction plates?  Any asbestos there? If the Aussie authorities are so darned "picky", dependent on attitude of the importer, etc. One would assume they would raise a stink about the clutch. If that is the case, it could be a major PITA.
Rick.

[swooshdave]

Maybe I should hide a gun under the seat. They’ll be so freaked out they’ll shut down the entire port. 

And maybe forget all about the asbestos. 

 

JUST KIDDING!!!

[reidy]

The people looking for asbestos are not the same ones as looking for guns. You should be ok.

Like everything I think there is a bit of politics at play here. A couple of years ago asbestos was found in some brand new imported cars from a large country to the north of us. This did not help the situation as it was claimed importers were bring in second hand cars with asbestos and not been checked. Therefor why was this car manufacturer being targeted.

Around the same time there was a flood of cars and bikes coming from overseas having been bought by collectors riding the crest of the classic car and bike wave. A few laws were changed to try and slow the situation down as we all know that these classic cars cause massive pollution and are highly unsafe. Not a good thing for a green and safety conscious society. Just think of the polar bears.

When you add an over zealous inspector who is having a bad day into the mix, things don't go well. If they really wanted to they could request the complete car or bike be dissembled at the expense of whoever is doing the importing and all of the gaskets and clutch plate be sent for testing.

There are stories of this happening but I have only heard them from a mate of a mate who overheard it down the pub after 20 beers. 
The one story that I heard first hand was my friend a couple of years ago. He had a container of bikes. The selected one bike and he had to pay for the brakes and exhaust gaskets to be removed and sent for testing. They would not release the container until this was done. He played the game with a smile and a couple of days later told he could come and pick the lot up. He has not been tested since.

I am sure all of our countries have unique laws that target certain things. It is just unlucky for us that it is Asbestos in bikes for what ever reason.

Steve

[swooshdave]

Brake pads came out easy. Didn't even have to remove the calipers. I made up some duck tape spacers to keep the pucks from hitting the disk. Should be pretty apparent from grabbing the front lever that there isn't anything there.



The rear was a lot easier than I thought. I just removed the rear axle and I could remove the brake plate without even removing the rear wheel.



But those are some stiff springs! I thought I might need to remove the pivots and such, but I brought out my trusty spring hook. I think I got this at Harbor Freight and it's been invaluable. I think they stopped making them because they were so good.



Got the gas out too. Those touring tanks hold a lot of gas even when only half full! My V11 Sport tank looks ten times bigger and holds less.

I think it's ready to go. Just waiting for the wire transfer for the balance and then the shipper can come get it. Should be pretty soon, hopefully tomorrow.

[Roy gardner]

Well done! Getting the plate out, then the wheel demonstrates how good drum brake wheels are from the maintenance point of view. I can get the front wheel out  of my Sport while disc bike owners are still looking for the wrench to unbolt their calipers

Dont throw the shoes away, Mr Aussie may call up in a few months asking you to put you health at risk & grind the linings off them & post them down there so he can get them relined with asbestos free linings because he cant import new ones.   

Actually, there is not a lot of risk, and there are other ways of removing the linings, you dont have to grind them.

[swooshdave]

Well done! Getting the plate out, then the wheel demonstrates how good drum brake wheels are from the maintenance point of view. I can get the front wheel out  of my Sport while disc bike owners are still looking for the wrench to unbolt their calipers

Dont throw the shoes away, Mr Aussie may call up in a few months asking you to put you health at risk & grind the linings off them & post them down there so he can get them relined with asbestos free linings because he cant import new ones.   

Actually, there is not a lot of risk, and there are other ways of removing the linings, you dont have to grind them.

I believe you can buy new asbestos pads in AUS. Therein lies the irony.