Author Topic: Arthritis, Cluch Hand  (Read 1389 times)

Offline stubbie

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2019, 02:26:28 AM »
Wyno funny you should mention prunes and gin. Just turned on the tv to watch the AFL and on SBS there is a guy talking about prunes and gin for pain relief. Soak your prunes in gin for 2 weeks and then eat a couple every night before bed. He recons he doesn't suffer any of those old body pains any more.

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2019, 03:05:11 AM »
My brother and his wife live near Camperdown (Vic) and one of the old farmers near them swears by it He's been doing it for years. Mind you  he's pissed most days.
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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2019, 07:07:28 AM »
Thanks everyone for chiming in with what has worked for them. 

As for MSM and DSMO, I'm leary of using anything that's not backed scientific testing and validation.  I'm also not sure about the "all natural" label.  DSMO is short for di-methysulfoxide, and MSM is short for methylsulfonylmetha ne.  Those sound like chemicals to me.   

They must work, if they've helped you all, but I'll proceed cautiously on this.

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2019, 02:39:05 AM »
I have two kinds of arthritis, osteo and rheumatoid. Xeljanz for the latter and Mobic for osteo. Neither is perfect but both are better than nothing. Voltaren Emulgel does not work on either, for me. Good luck mate :thumb:
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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2019, 02:50:38 AM »
Mate I probably missed whether you have a manual or hydraulic clutch, but if hydraulic.
In anticipation of your clutch hand giving you buggery, I would work towards getting some mechanical advantage into the clutch circuit.
If hydraulic, a m/c with slightly smaller piston will make the clutch lighter but will use more lever throw throughout the range, so make sure you can still free the clutch fully for gear engagement and idling etc...
Just a suggestion of the problem arises.

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2019, 06:17:10 AM »
Mate I probably missed whether you have a manual or hydraulic clutch, but if hydraulic.
In anticipation of your clutch hand giving you buggery, I would work towards getting some mechanical advantage into the clutch circuit.
If hydraulic, a m/c with slightly smaller piston will make the clutch lighter but will use more lever throw throughout the range, so make sure you can still free the clutch fully for gear engagement and idling etc...
Just a suggestion of the problem arises.

Huzo,

I have a cable clutch.  The irony is that I have no problem w the clutch, but the arthritis fatigues and pains my hand just from wearing the riding glove. 

The pain is erratic, comes and goes.  The clutch is okay, but turning a screw won't be.  Or the screw will ok, but using pliers will hurt.  I haven't started any pain medicine yet, so I've a ways to go.  I'm surprised there's no effective treatments to stop the progression.

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Online Bulldog9

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2019, 07:02:45 AM »
I understand where you're coming from. I'm not one of these health food naturalist devotees, but would prefer a less pharmaceutical approach 2 my medical care.

You have to be comfortable with whatever you put in your body. Of course Bourbon and cigars don't count :-) haha

There is a fairly large body of research done on DMSO and MSM,  did a quick search in the NIH archives (used to work as a biomedical ethicist for the department of defense). check out the article, but don't expect your doctor to prescribe this because there is no money to be made in the pharmaceutical trade.... And that is what drives most of the medical profession.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5372953/

Just hate to see folks suffer in pain, and I know that this supplement has done wonders for me and taking me off the long list of medicines the doctors were trying to use to deal with all of my pain and injuries. And no I don't have stock in DMSO or MSM :-) I wish you the best brother!




Thanks everyone for chiming in with what has worked for them. 

As for MSM and DSMO, I'm leary of using anything that's not backed scientific testing and validation.  I'm also not sure about the "all natural" label.  DSMO is short for di-methysulfoxide, and MSM is short for methylsulfonylmetha ne.  Those sound like chemicals to me.   

They must work, if they've helped you all, but I'll proceed cautiously on this.

Joe
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 09:08:02 PM by Bulldog9 »
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Offline mtiberio

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2019, 08:48:42 AM »
Take 2 Converts and call me in the morning

Offline LowRyter

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2019, 09:01:57 AM »
One of my riding buddies is physical therapist.  I always ask him for free advice.  I did have a shoulder issue that was pretty annoying, in that case I had to go see him.  I was able to work both shoulders with his rehab instructions and then switched over to regular exercise program. 

I guess my advice, is to not ask for advice on the internet but see a pro.



BTW-  when say pro, I don't necessarily mean a GP.  See an actual therapist or medical specialist.  Most doctors know much more than laymen but about half what a specialist does.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 09:04:11 AM by LowRyter »
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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2019, 09:16:20 AM »
+1 for PT.

In my organization you have to see a GP to get a referral to a physical therapist. But chances are you are going to end up there anyway, so you might as well go sooner rather than later.

Offline dguzzi

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2019, 09:27:02 AM »
I've found that fish oil really helps. I have knees pains but it seems to have cleared my hand pains as well. Anti-inflammatory ya know.
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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2019, 05:59:55 PM »
Great advice overall.  Such different opinions and experiences.  I stopped w fish oil, but maybe I'll start again.  And I'll see my gp and a specialist.  It's not really bad, but I'd like to get ahead of it.

On top of everything else, I get drug tested at work, so I avoid supplements because you never know what will trigger the test and lead to a lot of drama.

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2019, 07:48:33 PM »
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5372953/

Bulldog9
re MSM and your link. I am using prednisolone for inflammation and while it is working according to monthly blood tests, I have to take Pariet to counteract the stomach/oesophagus-pain-issues associated with steroid and Mobic use.
And just where does this get us/you/sign216? Just another option, I suppose but note that I for one, seem to need Mobic and prenisolone, at least according to my Rheumatologist.
But I note the comment about what, "drives" the medical profession.
All the Best :thumb: 
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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2019, 08:16:20 PM »
Great advice overall.  Such different opinions and experiences.  I stopped w fish oil, but maybe I'll start again.  And I'll see my gp and a specialist.  It's not really bad, but I'd like to get ahead of it.

On top of everything else, I get drug tested at work, so I avoid supplements because you never know what will trigger the test and lead to a lot of drama.

Joe

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Offline Muzz

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2019, 02:38:10 AM »
Bulldog9

And just where does this get us/you/sign216? Just another option, I suppose but note that I for one, seem to need Mobic and prenisolone, at least according to my Rheumatologist.


I was put on Prednisone when I had contracted a rather nasty and painful auto immune thing.  I had actually worked out what I had before the experts, read up about the treatment, and the problems with Prednisone.

It has a nasty side effect of dissolving scar tissue, and by the time I finished with the treatment I had in quick succession two hernias, a tendon literally fall off and one hip simply collapsed over 4-5 months.  The final coming off, at .5mg per month would send me into depression for about three weeks with one week of semi normality before hitting the depression again.

I guess it enabled me to continue in my job; the cost was pretty high though, both mentally and in my pocket with the associated problems it caused.
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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2019, 02:55:18 AM »
Prednisone can also lower your immunity. I ended up getting shingles and I still have tingles in my left leg after 18 month off the drug.
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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2019, 06:37:33 PM »
Holy shit.  The prescribed drug for this, Prednisone, appears to have more complications than the issue it "solves."

Good to know.
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Offline Muzz

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2019, 06:33:23 PM »
Holy shit.  The prescribed drug for this, Prednisone, appears to have more complications than the issue it "solves."

Good to know.

Joe, Prednisone has amazing anti inflammatory properties and works when nothing else does.  Therein lies the crunch.  If you are crippled, then being able to function is a bonus.  It is the perfect Catch 22 drug.
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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2019, 06:05:49 AM »
I asked my pharmacist, and he said that some forms of arthritis are caused by inflammation of the joints, and can be treated w over the counter anti-inflammatories like Ibuprofen (Motrin, Advil) and Naproxen (Aleve).  I asked about aspirin, and he said it's an inflammatory, but the side effects (ulcers, etc) out weight the benefits, esp. in the high effective doses.

He cautioned that the anti-inflammatory drugs put stress on the liver/kidneys, so be aware. 

A search showed that arthritis has dozens of causes however.  So...the battle continues.
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Offline frans belgium

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2019, 06:13:30 AM »
Try the v85TT.  One of the reasons I bought it, is the extremely light clutch (not even hydraulic).

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2019, 07:09:58 AM »
Try a V85 TT, it has an extremely light clutch handle.
I ride in a small group, most of which ride Guzzi.
One of my friends, who has severe arthritis, tried a V85.
He was thrilled, and most dissapointed when his partner (pillion) did not like it.
I'm an old old fart, and both me and my pillion like the V85, very gentle on the joints ;-)
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 07:10:54 AM by frans belgium »
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Offline frozengoose

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2019, 03:55:34 PM »
I asked my pharmacist, and he said that some forms of arthritis are caused by inflammation of the joints, and can be treated w over the counter anti-inflammatories like Ibuprofen (Motrin, Advil) and Naproxen (Aleve).  I asked about aspirin, and he said it's an inflammatory, but the side effects (ulcers, etc) out weight the benefits, esp. in the high effective doses.

He cautioned that the anti-inflammatory drugs put stress on the liver/kidneys, so be aware. 

A search showed that arthritis has dozens of causes however.  So...the battle continues.

I commented on this before, but there's so much mis-information out there, well I never could leave well enough alone...

From what I've read, there's basically two types of arthritis, rheumatoid  and osteo-arthritis. Neither has a cure, short of joint replacement.

Rheumatoid arthritis is an auto-immune disease; the body is for some reason attacking the joint lining. It can be treated with corticosteroids to suppress the body's immune system, and anti-inflammatories, to reduce swelling and pain. They both have side effects.

Osteo-arthritis, to put it simply, is joint degeneration due to aging, injury, or over use of the joint. It's apparently genetic, as some have thicker cartilage on the joint surface than others. Once the cartilage has worn away (bone on bone) joint replacement currently is the only proven option. It can be treated temporarily with anti-inflammatories (NSAIDS) like Aleve (Naproxen), Ibuprofen, Acetaminophen, or aspirin.

Not sure why the pharmacist was down on aspirin. I've taken it for years with no side effects. Like any NSAID, it's important to take it after meals, so it's absorbed on a full stomach. I was on naproxen for a year for hip pain and it elevated my blood pressure by twenty points. The Dr was dismissive of my claim on this, but when I quit taking it, the BP went back to normal. So there's that.

Here's a partial list of the things I've tried that DID NOT help:

Fish oil
Glucosamine/Chondroitin
MSM
Hyaluronic acid
Mega vitamins: A, B complex, C, D, E
Mega minerals: Cal. Mag. Zinc
Physical therapy
Various joint strengthening exercises

I've also talked to several people who've had the cartilage replacement injections and they all wound up getting the joints replaced.

So what's the answer? Well for me it's been the several joint replacements (knees, hips), light exercise, stretching, and aspirin. Lately I've tried Ibuprofen and Acetaminophen in combination, taking half dosage of each. This minimizes the side effects and supposedly promotes synergistic treatment effects. Haven't taken it long enough to be sure, but it looks promising.

Also you can wear elastic /neoprene supports on the hand, wrist, elbow or knee when out working or riding the bike. This not only helps the arthritis, but keeps the tendonitis under control. That's the other thing that I've developed over the years and can cause extreme pain in the elbow, wrist or hand. You may need to get x-rays to see which one you have, I'm lucky enough to get both.

So that's the long version of my first post here. Keep in mind that I'm not a medical practitioner, just 25 years of dealing with arthritis and trying different stuff. Your results may vary.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 04:15:01 PM by frozengoose »
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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2019, 06:59:42 PM »
Anecdotal evidence. My left thumb has become very painful from using the tool changer on the cnc mill for 30 years, and playing stand up bass. Over the last 6 months, both hands have been aching pretty constantly. I've tried Aleve, and it helps, but am a little leery of using it considering I only have one kidney left.  :shocked: :smiley:
An old friend recommended DSMO. and this thread reminded me. I've used it in the morning for two days now. After about an hour or so, I noticed much less pain. Today, I forgot about the pain.  I don't think this is psychosomatic.. but of course it could be.
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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2019, 09:08:57 PM »
I commented on this before, but there's so much mis-information out there, well I never could leave well enough alone...

From what I've read, there's basically two types of arthritis, rheumatoid  and osteo-arthritis. Neither has a cure, short of joint replacement.

Rheumatoid arthritis is an auto-immune disease; the body is for some reason attacking the joint lining. It can be treated with corticosteroids to suppress the body's immune system, and anti-inflammatories, to reduce swelling and pain. They both have side effects.

Osteo-arthritis, to put it simply, is joint degeneration due to aging, injury, or over use of the joint. It's apparently genetic, as some have thicker cartilage on the joint surface than others. Once the cartilage has worn away (bone on bone) joint replacement currently is the only proven option. It can be treated temporarily with anti-inflammatories (NSAIDS) like Aleve (Naproxen), Ibuprofen, Acetaminophen, or aspirin.

Not sure why the pharmacist was down on aspirin. I've taken it for years with no side effects. Like any NSAID, it's important to take it after meals, so it's absorbed on a full stomach. I was on naproxen for a year for hip pain and it elevated my blood pressure by twenty points. The Dr was dismissive of my claim on this, but when I quit taking it, the BP went back to normal. So there's that.

Here's a partial list of the things I've tried that DID NOT help:

Fish oil
Glucosamine/Chondroitin
MSM
Hyaluronic acid
Mega vitamins: A, B complex, C, D, E
Mega minerals: Cal. Mag. Zinc
Physical therapy
Various joint strengthening exercises

I've also talked to several people who've had the cartilage replacement injections and they all wound up getting the joints replaced.

So what's the answer? Well for me it's been the several joint replacements (knees, hips), light exercise, stretching, and aspirin. Lately I've tried Ibuprofen and Acetaminophen in combination, taking half dosage of each. This minimizes the side effects and supposedly promotes synergistic treatment effects. Haven't taken it long enough to be sure, but it looks promising.

Also you can wear elastic /neoprene supports on the hand, wrist, elbow or knee when out working or riding the bike. This not only helps the arthritis, but keeps the tendonitis under control. That's the other thing that I've developed over the years and can cause extreme pain in the elbow, wrist or hand. You may need to get x-rays to see which one you have, I'm lucky enough to get both.

So that's the long version of my first post here. Keep in mind that I'm not a medical practitioner, just 25 years of dealing with arthritis and trying different stuff. Your results may vary.

Frozen,
Of all the things  you mentioned, MSM was most recommended by others.  I admit, it does have a "snake oil" un-researched history.
So it didn't do anything for you?
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Offline frozengoose

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2019, 09:27:07 PM »
Frozen,
Of all the things  you mentioned, MSM was most recommended by others.  I admit, it does have a "snake oil" un-researched history.
So it didn't do anything for you?
Joe

Well of all the the things I've tried, the DMSO was the most promising, but in the end, not so much. I was totally freaked out about getting arthritis when it first happened, I wanted to think there was some miracle cure that I could take and it'd go away. Well it didn't happen. Maybe it was lifestyle, genetics, I don't know, but none of that stuff worked for me. The thing of it is, if there was a miracle cure for it, don't you think somebody would be making a million bucks off it by now? I'm sorry but my experience is that arthritis is a bum deal, there's no cure, and you have to deal with it as best as you can. My brother has no problems and I have it bad. That's life!
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 09:54:20 PM by frozengoose »
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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #55 on: June 14, 2019, 10:40:25 PM »
At the ripe old age of 49 I man in the same boat as the OP.  A light clutch is paramount.

Glad to hear the V85TT has a lightweight one.

Have deliveries started yet?  My nearest dealer is 300 miles away but I wouldnít mind one of these in the garage.

I know on paper it has a lot more oomph than my V7 III.  How about in the real world?

NC

Try the v85TT.  One of the reasons I bought it, is the extremely light clutch (not even hydraulic).

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #56 on: June 15, 2019, 06:56:16 AM »
I have arthritis in both hands.  Iíve broken each multiple times.  I also have carpal tunnel in my right hand.  Really good gloves, with pre-curved fingers are key.  I usually stick with Held but ymmv.  I also always mount the largest grips that will fit.  Grip Puppies really help once you get used to them.  So far, I can manage it with gloves and a couple aspirin before a ride but cruise control is a HUGE help as unlike the OP, my right hand is worse than my left. 

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #57 on: June 15, 2019, 06:44:58 PM »
I have arthritis in both hands.  Iíve broken each multiple times.  I also have carpal tunnel in my right hand.  Really good gloves, with pre-curved fingers are key.  I usually stick with Held but ymmv.  I also always mount the largest grips that will fit.  Grip Puppies really help once you get used to them.  So far, I can manage it with gloves and a couple aspirin before a ride but cruise control is a HUGE help as unlike the OP, my right hand is worse than my left.

John,
I irony is that the clutch is okay, but just wearing the gloves is tiring, slightly painful, and fatiguing.  The gloves aren't that tight, but it's just enough to be a bother.

Also, my pharmacist said Aleve or Ibuprofen would work better than the aspirin.
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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2019, 06:46:31 PM »
Well of all the the things I've tried, the DMSO was the most promising, but in the end, not so much. I was totally freaked out about getting arthritis when it first happened, I wanted to think there was some miracle cure that I could take and it'd go away. Well it didn't happen. Maybe it was lifestyle, genetics, I don't know, but none of that stuff worked for me. The thing of it is, if there was a miracle cure for it, don't you think somebody would be making a million bucks off it by now? I'm sorry but my experience is that arthritis is a bum deal, there's no cure, and you have to deal with it as best as you can. My brother has no problems and I have it bad. That's life!

Goose,
Your message is probably the most honest and forthright one out there.
Maybe I'm just a pessimist.
Thanks for your insight,
Joe
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Offline Numbercruncher

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Re: Arthritis, Cluch Hand
« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2019, 08:43:41 PM »
Thanks for the honest, rational, make-me-want-to-kill-myself-tonight post.

Sorry for the shitty mood post so ban me if needed.  But I could barely play guitar today and both my f***ing feet are burning from just walking around on what amounts to nothing more than a normal day of exertion.  Doc said I have the worst early onset (I'm 49) arthritis he has seen; hands and feet.  Sorry but I won't live like this more than a year or two more if I keep getting worse like I have the past two years.  When I can no longer wipe my ass or shave I'll take my buddy Gaston Glock out to the river and take one to the head.  If my hands are so bad I only seriously wound myself at least I'll drown in the river.  Some say killing yourself is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.  That is a bullshit answer for the fat chick who is going to kill herself because she can't lose weight. When you lose the ability to do what you want to do in life, let alone take care of yourself, you find yourself like those unfortunate souls who take their own life.  You don't want to die, you want to live.  But ending your life is seen as a slight improvement over living in constant pain for the next 30 years until something terminal takes your life.  God I genuinely wish I had cancer so as least I know I would die without having to kill myself.  And Jesus Christ can kiss my f***ing ass if he is real.  He has given me WAY too many problems from the day I was born for me to have anything to do with him.

Like I said, ban me if I deserve it.

NC

Edit:  I have already toned this down more than once.

Well of all the the things I've tried, the DMSO was the most promising, but in the end, not so much. I was totally freaked out about getting arthritis when it first happened, I wanted to think there was some miracle cure that I could take and it'd go away. Well it didn't happen. Maybe it was lifestyle, genetics, I don't know, but none of that stuff worked for me. The thing of it is, if there was a miracle cure for it, don't you think somebody would be making a million bucks off it by now? I'm sorry but my experience is that arthritis is a bum deal, there's no cure, and you have to deal with it as best as you can. My brother has no problems and I have it bad. That's life!
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 08:46:43 PM by Numbercruncher »

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