Which Guzzi has the tallest first gear??

[bad Chad]

I have ridden a few Guzzi, small and big block, and a Robin, but we’re just talking serious road bikes for this exercise.   I find first gear on my current B1100 to be pretty darn large, but I thinking a few other Guzzi may be more, perhaps a Spot 1100??

[MMRanch]

I tend to LIKE tall gearing and am a little disappointed in my V-7II ' s lack of a interstate gear.
   
Are the V-7III's any different ?   or does it take a Big Block to have a real cruising gear ?


 

[Roebling3]

I may be way off and memory is fading quickly, but. I've always felt my '93 Daytona was geared high in 1st. It's never been easy to launch and doesn't that bike run to red line in 1st gear at ~82 m/h? IOW. 0 to 60 in less than 4 blinks.  R3~   

[rocker59]

I have ridden a few Guzzi, small and big block, and a Robin, but we’re just talking serious road bikes for this exercise.   I find first gear on my current B1100 to be pretty darn large, but I thinking a few other Guzzi may be more, perhaps a Spot 1100??

Daytona/Sport 1100 had to have the tallest 1st gear. 

And, for some wacky reason, Quota 1100 ES has some really tall gearing.   

[Roebling3]

I'm not familiar with the term 'interstate gear'. I'm guessing you mean and over drive ratio. Both 5th and 6th in V7III's are overdriven.
My V7 III runs about 62 m/h at around 3000 r/m in 6th gear. From the owners manual: 4th - 1:1.083, 5th - 1:0.96, 6th - 1:0857, Final drive/bevel box - 1:4.25. Best torque delivery is just over 3Kr/m. You can be as fussy or clumsy as you like relative to shifting if there is no load on the engine. Between ~3 & 5K r/m should be plenty of operating range. Caution: Do not coast in neutral. There is an oil pump in the transmission. It will not pump in neutral. (? Is it driven off the counter shaft?)    R3~           

[Turin]

1987 lemans SE. Close ratio 5 speed has a stupid tall 1st gear.

If I remember right, it made the SE almost a full second slower in the 1/4 mile vs the standard lemans.

[rocker59]

I'm not familiar with the term 'interstate gear'.    R3~         

It just means a top gear that will put the engine in a comfortable, lower RPM for high-speed long distance cruising.

A V7 at 75-80 mph on the highway is kind of buzzy.  I know what he means.  the 2014 V7 Classic I had was real buzzy at interstate speed and could've benefitted from an "interstate gear" above 5th.  Only problem is then I'd have been wishing for more power to pull the taller gear!  LOL!  It never ends.

[tris]

......   I find first gear on my current B1100 to be pretty darn large, ......

Me too 

It never feels like I can get a super fast get away should I get the inclination without more clutch slip than I would expect

[PeteS]

1987 lemans SE. Close ratio 5 speed has a stupid tall 1st gear.

If I remember right, it made the SE almost a full second slower in the 1/4 mile vs the standard lemans.

This might be true. I have a close ratio in my 850 Lemans installed by Manfred Hecht. I estimate its about the same as 1.75 compared to the original gearbox. Great once you are moving but it loses all pretense as a drag bike. I was able to get a 13 flat at 103 mph with it at the local dragway though.

Pete

[Texas Turnip]

1st gear on the 4 speed is lower than first gear on the 6 speed Big Breva. IMHO it is stupid to have to slip the clutch and rev the motor to take off in first gear. Forget about riding in parades or getting off on back roads with gravel and sand when you have a first gear that will take you to 60MPH.

Tex

[Ncdan]

6th gear in my 1400 tourer is labeled as an overdrive gear.
On my CalVin first gear always felt a little too tall for my liking.

[mtiberio]

1987 lemans SE. Close ratio 5 speed has a stupid tall 1st gear.

If I remember right, it made the SE almost a full second slower in the 1/4 mile vs the standard lemans.

what he said.

[Idontwantapickle]

Convert.
85MPH in low gear. Won a few low gear races on that one!

[Stormtruck2]

I thought the were all about 3 inches tall in the box??

[Murray]

I have ridden a few Guzzi, small and big block, and a Robin, but we’re just talking serious road bikes for this exercise.   I find first gear on my current B1100 to be pretty darn large, but I thinking a few other Guzzi may be more, perhaps a Spot 1100??

Spot 1100 but maybe someone might need to have a look through the specs Guzzi been Guzzi I doubt it was very different to the calis of the time, more likely the lumpy cam adjusted the perception, most defintaly the B1100 isn't in the hunt on this one which is probably a good thing.

[bad Chad]

I do recall reading or hearing that the B1100 had the highest gear ratio of all the Carcass bikes.

[MMRanch]

My V-7II , is turning 3,100 RPM at 50 miles/hr.  in 6th gear .  5,000 RPM at 80 miles/hr.   so the top speed at 6500 would be about 105 mph. 

Roebling3

you say the V-7III is only spinning 3,000 at 60 mph ?   so the down-hill , tail-wind top speed (6500 RPM)  would be about 130 mph. ?

I might need to trade bikes and go with the V7-III !

[mtiberio]

Convert.
85MPH in low gear. Won a few low gear races on that one!

 

I missed that one. Low gear in a convert is like 3rd in a 5 speed. You nailed it.

[Groover]

The idea with the close ratio gear sets, typically having a tall first gear is that they are typically for racing, which means some things are meant to be sacrificed for the sake of performance, like a clutch. I used to race Vespas beck in the day, and a lot of them were geared tall to get the speed, but the key to that is to go revvy off the line at half clutch until things really kick-in. Hi revs will get it going, will of course toast the clutch sooner than normal, but that's how you use tall first gear in a racing scenario. I'm guessing the test done with the Le Mans SE vs the normal gearing was done taking off the line normally (not half clutch).

[rocker59]

The idea with the close ratio gear sets, typically having a tall first gear is that they are typically for racing, which means some things are meant to be sacrificed for the sake of performance, like a clutch. I used to race Vespas beck in the day, and a lot of them were geared tall to get the speed, but the key to that is to go revvy off the line at half clutch until things really kick-in. Hi revs will get it going, will of course toast the clutch sooner than normal, but that's how you use tall first gear in a racing scenario. I'm guessing the test done with the Le Mans SE vs the normal gearing was done taking off the line normally (not half clutch).

The tall first gear is nice on a road course, or roadway, which has some tight hairpins.  Typically 2nd can be too tall for those turns, and 1st too short, which means the drive off of those hairpins is impacted.  The taller 1st gear in the close-ratio box allows the rider to use the gear in hairpins for better drive on the exit.

I have experienced this problem at tracks with my Sport 1100, though it's not as bad as some other bikes I've seen.  The Sport 1100's 1st gear can be an effort to reach through neutral, but it's nice to be able to use it on the tighter bends.

[Kev m]

My V-7II , is turning 3,100 RPM at 50 miles/hr.  in 6th gear .  5,000 RPM at 80 miles/hr.   so the top speed at 6500 would be about 105 mph. 

Roebling3

you say the V-7III is only spinning 3,000 at 60 mph ?   so the down-hill , tail-wind top speed (6500 RPM)  would be about 130 mph. ?

I might need to trade bikes and go with the V7-III !

?!? - I thought the 6-speed transmission and the final drive where the same on the II and III ???

Here's my notes, not sure what they tell us.

V7 III

4500 rpm = ~ the following (rounded off for easy remembering):

30 (closer to 27) in 1st gear
35 in 2nd gear
50 (closer to 48) in 3rd gear
60 in 4th gear
70 (closer to 68) in 5th gear
76 in 6th gear


V7 I - 5-speed

speed vs rpm in top (5th gear)

55 3500
60 3800
65 4100
70 4400
75 4700
80 4900


So not apples-to-apples, and doesn't confirm the II vs III thing but:

V7 I  - 70-75 mph ~4400-4700 - 80 mph just under 5k.

V7III - 76 = 4500 rpm (as opposed to 4700), so i'm guessing 80 mph is closer to 4700 rpm or a similar 200 or so rpm lower than the MK I.

Two questions.

1. How certain are you about 5k at 80 mph? (If I had to guess there's either speedo error involved in that or you're rounding up).

2. What is say a CARC big-block or Tonti Big Block turning at 80 mph in top gear? It's been too long for me to remember.


But I don't think the V7III is going to get you what you're looking for if what you're looking for is more grunt and less rpm at 80 mph.

[Groover]

The tall first gear is nice on a road course, or roadway, which has some tight hairpins.  Typically 2nd can be too tall for those turns, and 1st too short, which means the drive off of those hairpins is impacted.  The taller 1st gear in the close-ratio box allows the rider to use the gear in hairpins for better drive on the exit.

That makes sense, another good use for that gearing for sure.

[Kev m]

?!? - I thought the 6-speed transmission and the final drive where the same on the II and III ???

Here's my notes, not sure what they tell us.

V7 III

4500 rpm = ~ the following (rounded off for easy remembering):

30 (closer to 27) in 1st gear
35 in 2nd gear
50 (closer to 48) in 3rd gear
60 in 4th gear
70 (closer to 68) in 5th gear
76 in 6th gear


V7 I - 5-speed

speed vs rpm in top (5th gear)

55 3500
60 3800
65 4100
70 4400
75 4700
80 4900


So not apples-to-apples, and doesn't confirm the II vs III thing but:

V7 I  - 70-75 mph ~4400-4700 - 80 mph just under 5k.

V7III - 76 = 4500 rpm (as opposed to 4700), so i'm guessing 80 mph is closer to 4700 rpm or a similar 200 or so rpm lower than the MK I.

Two questions.

1. How certain are you about 5k at 80 mph? (If I had to guess there's either speedo error involved in that or you're rounding up).

2. What is say a CARC big-block or Tonti Big Block turning at 80 mph in top gear? It's been too long for me to remember.


But I don't think the V7III is going to get you what you're looking for if what you're looking for is more grunt and less rpm at 80 mph.

I'll add to this, today I noticed that 4500 rpm = 76 mph on our 696, which is reportedly geared high as well.

[MMRanch]

So , the V-7III would hit 6,500 rpm at about 110mph , ...  Same as the V-7II

I'll just save my $$$ for a V-9 Roamer some day ! 

Do any of the big blocks have a 150mph/red-line --- weather they have the power to do it or not ... don't matter.      That's what I would call an INTERSTATE GEAR. (75MPH @ 1/2 the rpm range)

[Murray]

So , the V-7III would hit 6,500 rpm at about 110mph , ...  Same as the V-7II

I'll just save my $$$ for a V-9 Roamer some day ! 

Do any of the big blocks have a 150mph/red-line --- weather they have the power to do it or not ... don't matter.      That's what I would call an INTERSTATE GEAR. (75MPH @ 1/2 the rpm range)

In anecdotal testing the 1100 sport tops out at around 220kph/ 135ish mph but make no mistake its out of legs at that speed even if it had more in the gearing, the RS daytona with its slightly longer red line (9000rpm) would get there MGS-01 is 150mph all day everyday I think the V11 sport/lemans had some fairly long legs with an over driven 6th. The Griso supposedly has a slightly tighter ratio gearbox when compared to things like the Norge and the Stelvio. I've never really found the tall fist gear of the sport to be too much of a hindrance off road at low speeds it has the torque to overcome it and goign super slow on unsealed roads is not ideal anyway.

[Cam3512]

NOT my '67 Stornello Scrambler.  I have to shift after the first 5 feet. 

[rocker59]

Do any of the big blocks have a 150mph/red-line --- weather they have the power to do it or not ... don't matter.   

Yes.  All the Spine Frame bikes are "geared for" something over 150.  None of them will pull it, though, in stock condition.  Not enough power.  The Sport 1100 and V11 Sport/LeMans can't pull past 7,000 rpm in top gear. 

[Idontwantapickle]

Yes.  All the Spine Frame bikes are "geared for" something over 150.  None of them will pull it, though, in stock condition.  Not enough power.  The Sport 1100 and V11 Sport/LeMans can't pull past 7,000 rpm in top gear.

I can't imagine how you'd know that little tidbit of information! 

[MMRanch]

 Idontwantapickle

I'm going to have to google " Spine Frame bikes " Guzzi's to find out what they are . 

[Murray]

Yes.  All the Spine Frame bikes are "geared for" something over 150.  None of them will pull it, though, in stock condition.  Not enough power.  The Sport 1100 and V11 Sport/LeMans can't pull past 7,000 rpm in top gear.

I beg to differ the sport will go past 7000rpm you need to be down behind the screen and an extraordinary amount of patience but it is possible to get around 7800rpm in top.