Author Topic: Spline-align trick? (Read 5837 times)

Testarossa · « **on:** June 10, 2019, 05:13:41 PM »

The last time I bolted the gearbox back onto the engine I recall that I just jiggled it a bit and the clutch hub slipped right into the clutch splines. Doing it again, I can't get the two sides to mate up so easily.

I put the box in gear to stop the clutch hub turning, and have been turning the starter ring ever-slow slightly between tries. Getting frustrated.

Is there a trick I've forgotten? Use the clutch rod as a guide perhaps? Any tips humbly appreciated.

antmanbee · « **Reply #1 on:** June 10, 2019, 05:38:55 PM »

When you assembled the clutch to the flywheel did you use an alignment tool?

Peter949 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 10, 2019, 06:04:03 PM »

I just bolted the transmission on to the engine last week, and after one hour it would still

not line up and go on. The bike is a Cali II. Eventually I remembered a post on this site to look in the opening where the starter motor attaches. You can then see the splines line up perfectly, by turning the transmission output shaft. Hope this helps!

Testarossa · « **Reply #3 on:** June 10, 2019, 06:20:07 PM »

Thanks, Peter. I'll try that.

And yes, of course I used an alignment tool.

Quote

Reassembled the clutch using my homemade alignment tool. It slips over the clutch hub (which is off the gearbox) and lets me align the intermediate plate by hand.

All torqued down. The torque specs are nowhere to be found in the published tables but the old-timers on this board have values if you search for them: 30 ft/lb for the six bolts into the crankshaft, 22 ft/lb for the eight bolts in the starter ring.

antmanbee · « **Reply #4 on:** June 10, 2019, 07:18:44 PM »

I had to ask the question, you never know.
How far does it go together? do you have like centimeter to go or a lot more? Maybe hung up on the clutch actuation rod?

Matt Story · « **Reply #5 on:** June 10, 2019, 08:01:48 PM »

In the past couple years, I designed an alignment tool. I put my trans on and off probably 30 times testing it. I'm no Guzzi guru, but this is what I found.

Assuming everything is bolted together and the clutch plates are centered...

If the the trans in gear when you set it on, you can rotate the output shaft by hand thereby turning the input. I can't remember which gear is best. 5th should be easiest, would also have the least resolution. To help more, you can take some of the weight off of the misaligned hub (lift the trans slightly), then make small adjustments by tuning the output shaft - all while keeping it square. You can feel it when it drops in. Another set of skilled hands is a good thing.

You should also attempt to prealign the tooth rotations before marriage. Lay a straight edge on both halves, centered as best you can by eye and rotate the spline/flywheel until the straight edge is straight vertical. Do the same with the other half. It's an uneven number of teeth so one side will be on a tooth, the other a notch. Several times when I did this, the trans dropped right on.

I have an unedited video and pictures from my tool instructions.

Matt Story · « **Reply #6 on:** June 10, 2019, 08:17:46 PM »

Does anyone know how the link got added to the bottom of my post "what is the chemical formula for corundum".

I find it a bit disconcerting. I didn't place it there. I can't see how to edit it out and don't see it on any other posts. It seems to be harmless. Maybe it's a paid ad with a failed graphic?

Rich A · « **Reply #7 on:** June 10, 2019, 08:34:20 PM »

I recall having a problem with the alignment one time (I've only done this a few times). As I recall, I loosened the eight bolts enough so that the plates could move. I aligned them as best I could, then mated the gearbox to the engine. Pulled the gearbox back off again. Torqued the bolts and it all went together.

Rich A

Antietam Classic Cycle · « **Reply #8 on:** June 10, 2019, 08:46:29 PM »

Quote from: Matt Story on June 10, 2019, 08:17:46 PM

Does anyone know how the link got added to the bottom of my post "what is the chemical formula for corundum".

I find it a bit disconcerting. I didn't place it there. I can't see how to edit it out and don't see it on any other posts. It seems to be harmless. Maybe it's a paid ad with a failed graphic?

It was added when you uploaded the photos:

Quote

https://ibb.co/Cb4DZv4][img]https://i.ibb.co/Cb4DZv4/Hub-alignment.jpg
https://ibb.co/W2QXWHk][img]https://i.ibb.co/W2QXWHk/Clutch-alinment.jpg
https://aluminumsulfate.net/aluminum-oxide]what is the chemical formula for corundum

Just delete the bold part to remove it.

Tom H · « **Reply #9 on:** June 10, 2019, 11:47:46 PM »

Silly question. If you replaced the friction plates, are they the correct splines for your trans input hub?

Tom

Testarossa · « **Reply #10 on:** June 11, 2019, 01:25:38 PM »

Well, everyone was right about the alignment. My plastic tool had enough distortion that the clutch hub moved about 1mm off center. I used Rich A's solution, loosening the eight clutch spring bolts and tapping the clutch plates until the radial distance from clutch plate center ring to starter ring was even all around -- with these Surflex plates, about 6.9mm. Then the gearbox slipped on pretty easily.

Thanks for the help!

Antietam Classic Cycle · « **Reply #11 on:** June 11, 2019, 03:13:51 PM »

Quote from: Testarossa on June 11, 2019, 01:25:38 PM

Well, everyone was right about the alignment. My plastic tool had enough distortion that the clutch hub moved about 1mm off center. I used Rich A's solution, loosening the eight clutch spring bolts and tapping the clutch plates until the radial distance from clutch plate center ring to starter ring was even all around -- with these Surflex plates, about 6.9mm. Then the gearbox slipped on pretty easily.

Thanks for the help!

You're going to regret that...

Testarossa · « **Reply #12 on:** June 11, 2019, 03:44:02 PM »

Regret Surflex? These are the disks I installed after the flood -- they worked well for me for about 10,000 miles (I don't abuse the clutch, much). At the same time I installed the deep-spline hub, and this set of plates is the genuine 4mm deep-spline version, not the one-size-fits all disks. At the time they were well-recommended. MGCycle still says nice things about them.

Antietam Classic Cycle · « **Reply #13 on:** June 11, 2019, 03:53:56 PM »

Quote from: Testarossa on June 11, 2019, 03:44:02 PM

Regret Surflex? These are the disks I installed after the flood -- they worked well for me for about 10,000 miles (I don't abuse the clutch, much). At the same time I installed the deep-spline hub, and this set of plates is the genuine 4mm deep-spline version, not the one-size-fits all disks. At the time they were well-recommended. MGCycle still says nice things about them.

Every bike I've ridden with them in had very abrupt clutch engagement, almost to the point of it being "on/off". The set in my '71 Ambassador "Barney" destroyed the hub in only 14k miles. I'll never use them (or Barnett) again.

Testarossa · « **Reply #14 on:** June 11, 2019, 04:27:53 PM »

What do you recommend, Charlie?

Antietam Classic Cycle · « **Reply #15 on:** June 11, 2019, 06:57:32 PM »

Quote from: Testarossa on June 11, 2019, 04:27:53 PM

What do you recommend, Charlie?

I've been using the SD-TEC friction plates in everything with 4 mm splines. But if the Surflex have been working for you, then use them. Maybe they've changed the friction material since '08.

Peter949 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 11, 2019, 07:37:49 PM »

I just took the Surflex clutch plates out of my California II, and replaced them with SD-TEC friction plates from MG Cycle. The old clutch plates were still plenty thick and smooth, but my clutch was like an 'on-off' light switch with very abrupt control. My new clutch (SD-TEC) is extremely smooth, with good control over engagement.

wirespokes · « **Reply #17 on:** June 11, 2019, 11:50:52 PM »

Quote from: Antietam Classic Cycle on June 11, 2019, 03:53:56 PM

Every bike I've ridden with them in had very abrupt clutch engagement, almost to the point of it being "on/off". The set in my '71 Ambassador "Barney" destroyed the hub in only 14k miles. I'll never use them (or Barnett) again.

Same here. The T3 got new 4mm Sureflex plates sometime about '04 or 05 and looked almost new. Replaced with SD and it's been fine ever since - and what a relief having a properly operating clutch.

pete roper · « **Reply #18 on:** June 12, 2019, 12:42:25 AM »

They may of changed, but I doubt it, the biggest problem with the Surflex deep spline plates is that they have a horrid 'One size fits neither' splineform and seem to be very soft. Ususlly within 15,000 km they will erode the splines to the point where the effectively disappear! One day you'll dump the clutch and just get a horrid ratcheting noise as they spin on the input hub and the horizon will fail to come towards you!

Pete

Testarossa · « **Reply #19 on:** June 12, 2019, 12:38:23 PM »

Okay, you talked me into it. New plates and springs on order.

Matt Story · « **Reply #20 on:** June 12, 2019, 10:06:22 PM »

I can send you an alignment tool if you would like, T. I only ask that you share how it works for you. Send me a PM with your address if interested. It looks like this, but assembled.

Testarossa · « **Reply #21 on:** June 12, 2019, 11:22:58 PM »

Matt, that's kinda neat. The big difference from my tool is the stiff barrel in the middle to keep the pressure disk accurately aligned with the bolt. I think I can modify mine easily to do the same thing. Thanks for the idea!

Seth

Old Jock · « **Reply #22 on:** June 13, 2019, 03:46:18 AM »

I've not went through this thread in any detail but guarantee I'll be visiting it again in a few weeks when I need to put the gearbox back onto the engine on the Hi-Cam

So thank you Testarossa for starting it and the rest for chiming in

John

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Author Topic: Spline-align trick? (Read 5837 times)

pete roper