Throw out bearing removal (Tonti)

[Chuck in Indiana]

I have a new double O ring pushrod actuator thingy.. (technical term) for the G5. It *seems* like I removed one to get to the throwout bearing on a LeMans 5 without removing the swing arm. Is that possible?  My memory is about a long as.. oh, never mind..

[Cdn850T5NT]

That doesn't make sense to me, at least, as per my recall on my 850T5.  The seal on the rod that pushes the adapter cap that contacts the pressure plate (so as to release the springs and make the twin clutch plates spin free of clamping pressure) is on the engine-side of the throwout bearing - to keep the clutch discs dry of any oil or grease that the T.O. bearing is packed-in (I believe).

I THINK I have that right.

What I am wondering, as well, is how a person fishes out the twin chevron OEM seal arrangement to replace em with o rings?  And what keeps the O Rings located, axially??

[pehayes]

The "thingy" shall be referred to as "Outer Body".  The original outer body had one o-ring.  There is an aftermarket version with two o-rings.  Either 'should' be able to pull with the swingarm in place.  Likely will have to remove the outer actuation lever.

Once you have it out, inspect the bearing and the bore.  If there was a prior catastrophic bearing failure then the bits may have chewed a groove in the rear cover bore.  If so  your new outer body o-rings are destined for a short life.  The bore can be corrected by having a machinist install an insert.

The chevron and push rod o-ring seals are inside the transmission, much forward of the throwout bearing.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[doslemans]

Well Chuck, my memory is worse than yours.  Done it twice on the 86 LM1V and don't remember pulling the swingarm. First time was around 100K and definitely without pulling swingarm. Second time was when going through it after the 07 natl flood and may have had the swingarm out during that but don't remember.  Wish I was more help.

[Cdn850T5NT]

The "thingy" shall be referred to as "Outer Body".  The original outer body had one o-ring.  There is an aftermarket version with two o-rings.  Either 'should' be able to pull with the swingarm in place.  Likely will have to remove the outer actuation lever.

Once you have it out, inspect the bearing and the bore.  If there was a prior catastrophic bearing failure then the bits may have chewed a groove in the rear cover bore.  If so  your new outer body o-rings are destined for a short life.  The bore can be corrected by having a machinist install an insert.

The chevron and push rod o-ring seals are inside the transmission, much forward of the throwout bearing.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Patrick, two brief questions:

i) to have the machinist sleeve the bore (and we are talking about the bore for the "outer body") - assumedly the whole transmission has to be delivered to the machinist, correct?  Or are you talking about a bore / the bore (?) for the gearbox outer cover?

and

ii) how do you fish out the chevron and the single o ring?

TIA

[fotoguzzi]

Second time was when going through it after the 07 natl flood .

In case you don't remember the epic Minnesota National rally in 2007,  all these bikes were flooded under over SIX feet of water in a flash flood.

[pehayes]

Patrick, two brief questions:
i) to have the machinist sleeve the bore (and we are talking about the bore for the "outer body") - assumedly the whole transmission has to be delivered to the machinist, correct?  Or are you talking about a bore / the bore (?) for the gearbox outer cover?

and

ii) how do you fish out the chevron and the single o ring?

TIA

Just the rear cover.  That's what gets torn up when the bearing disembowels itself.  Need the bearings removed to limit rotation weight and shipping weight.  I've done a handful of 4-speeds and at least one 5-speed (though I am reluctant to call myself a machinist).  See here:

http://www.motohayes.com/shoptask/rearcover/throwoutbore.html

Sorry, but I haven't done the pushrod seals in situ.  Just as part of a complete strip down.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[acogoff]

   Slacken the clutch cable up at the handlebar, remove cable from clutch arm at back of transmission, Pull cotter pin on clutch actuation arm pivot pin and remove the clevis pin and then the arm and you are in business.

[Cdn850T5NT]

Thanks, Patrick.

When I first got my 1985 850T5NT I was experiencing super-fast take-up of the clutch lever free-play (or maybe it was INCREASING clutch lever free-play, I don't remember which).  I took the clutch actuating lever off (from the back-side of the transmission back-cover) and removed the throwout bearing stack-up... which if memory serves includes some washers, a Torrington bearing (which is the T.O. bearing) and the like.  I found shards of metal fouling-up the T.O. bearing rollers.  So, I replaced it, or I cleaned off the shards... don't recall, exactly.  Have not experienced a problem since.

Based on your info I should check the bore of the rear cover and if bad I would send it to you for bushing it and restoring the bore.

Thanks for this important info!

Oh, just adding some graphics, BTW...

[Chuck in Indiana]

There is an aftermarket version with two o-rings.  Either 'should' be able to pull with the swingarm in place.  Likely will have to remove the outer actuation lever.

Got it, Patrick. Thanks.  The Michigan rally is coming up, and if it was going to turn into a project to put the new thingy  in there, I'd wait until I got back. Austin's bike is on the lift, so I'll have to do it in the Guzzi Garage.
Thanks, all..gotta love WG.

[Guzzidad]

   Hi Chuck. I'm the one who alerted you to the availability of the 2 o-ring outer body. I had to disconnect the swing arm on my 1100 Sport to install it. And I just went out to the garage to look at the EV, and it looks like that swing arm would have to be backed off too. Of course the Sport is much easier. Only took me 2 hours, and I work slow. The Sport is by far the easiest Guzzi I have ever worked on.

[fotoguzzi]

foto - The red GRiSO looks like my motorcycle and the seller told me he bought it from a dealer in Minnesota. I wonder if any of the motorcycles were dealer demos.

they sent every one of the factory bikes to the crusher.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Well, that was an easy enough job. Austin just took it out and said the clutch feels normal.    Maybe the double O ring thingy  Ok outer body will cure the little oil weep and grabby clutch. I love it when a plan comes together.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

The double o-ring outer body is slightly longer, so the clutch plates are likely separating a bit more, so less heat build-up and resulting better action. Good chance it'll stop the weep too.

[Chuck in Indiana]

The double o-ring outer body is slightly longer, so the clutch plates are likely separating a bit more, so less heat build-up and resulting better action. Good chance it'll stop the weep too.

Just got back from a putt. It's better, but not "normal." Good enough, though. I think I'll take it off my to do this Winter list. 
Thanks, all.

[lucian]

Chuck, I don't know if you have tried the mineral spirits flush on the clutch or not, but it cured the nasty clutch grabbing on my LM  III'  Has been working fine for 2,000 miles since I flushed all the  crud out of it. I just plugged the little hole on the bottom of the bell housing with some window glazing putty and filled the clutch housing up with mineral spirits via the timing inspection plug.  Fired it up , rev, drain and repeat until it comes out clean. Worked for me so far anyways. Oh yeh. hold a rag over the timing hole or it will throw the thinner out at a fast rate.