Author Topic: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record  (Read 8995 times)

Offline cliffrod

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1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« on: August 29, 2019, 10:58:31 PM »
Just posted a few pics in general discussion, so will start this thread.  A lot of pics are being held hostage in my daughter's old & dysfunctional iPhone.  For now, a little general background and info on the past year.

In 1969,  Moto Guzzi lacked a racing, sport or performance version of their new flagship V Twin engine.  They enlisted Lino Tonti to repurpose two new Ambassadors to demonstrate the performance potential of the new V Twin engine platform.  One would compete in 750 cc class and one in 1000 cc class.  The stock bikes were basically stripped, then specifically equipped & modified for the task at hand.  Over two days at Monza in October 1969, 19 world records were set.  These two bikes were never campaigned or used otherwise. One was retired to the MG factory museum, where it remains to this day.  The other one came to the USA through Berliner.  It was sold to a private individual and was ultimately parted out and forever lost.

These World Record achievements were widely publicized by MG, including in subsequent contemporary magazine ads.  Based upon the results, MG began development of a dedicated V Twin sport model.  Tonti was reported disappointed with the loop frame's performance, so he designed a totally new frame for the new sport model.  The result was the V7 Sport, with the now legendary Tonti frame.   The World Record bikes are the forefathers of all subsequent factory sport bikes and provided many styling cues for later models.

I've had my V7 Sport for many years.  Never had a Loop or much interest in them.  In July 2018, I acquired an incomplete 1967 V700 (complete frame and front end, driveline and swing arm with no wheels/brakes, final drive, speedo, sheet metal, etc) for $200.00 with the intent of parting it out.  As we were unloading it at home  I found the engine turned with compression. Then I learned more about the Record bikes and decided such a build would make a great partner for my V7 Sport.  I sold nearly all my bikes establishing my studio and such a project is exactly what I've planned to do for many, many years.

Between July 2018 and July 2019, most time was spent chasing regular and obscure parts, doing research and making some actual build progress. Greg Bender put me in touch with another fan (who has been a great help) who is building a more faithful replica of the original racetrack-dedicated Record bikes.  Mine is intended to be close to the original bikes, but will be a street legal bike with lights.   The original bikes were purpose-built tools that were used and essentially discarded, not refined machines produced per committee & engineering edict.  I hope to deliberately produce a comparable result in a nod towards authenticity of their spontaneous, utilitarian development, but not because I cannot produce accurate work.

This project is as much sculpture as functional motorcycle to me. I plan to both ride it and enjoy it as a work of art. I'm not building it to satisfy anyone except me.  Metal shaping & panel work is a different means of exploring shape for me.  It is not a reductive or additive method. It is about moving only the surface plane into a new configuration.  My available time and funds vary significantly, so I have no set schedule for completion.  After the bike is completely built, I will address the mechanical rebuild.

I'll likely edit to add some pics as I coordinate between multiple devices.  If you're interested, check back at these initial posts.  Right now, I'm trying to get started.

There's limited accurate information about these bikes and the various configurations in which they are pictured.  Nearly all we have are contemporary pictures and additional modern pictures taken at the MG Museum.

Some pics-

This screenshot is a picture from Monza of one of the bikes without fairing, different front end detail and no rear brakes-





Other side, maybe the same bike but not sure-





I began with very simple templates (tank was made from a Busch Light case chipboard) and then began producing a clay model on wood armature of half of the tank and seat.  I regularly do clay or plastilina models for my professional sculpture work, with only pictures or drawings as reference.  This process was no different.  No CAD, no CNC.  Just low tech pencil, paper, ruler, bandsaw, belt sander, etc. and lots of practice.





Studying other bike builds, many people will build a tank shell and then try to figure out how to do the tank tunnel & mount as an afterthought.  Not cool.  I wanted to design the tunnel first.  My V7 Sport has oem tank bushings around the top tube that I like much better than the typical foam & electrical tape..  Problem is the Loop frame top tube is much larger.  After searching for an off the shelf item, like a large sway bar bushing, I made what I needed.  I sourced some urethane spring die stock via craigslist. This material was sawed to width.  The center was offset cut to diameter with a hole saw, using a fixture to hold the die stock.  The rest of the shaping was done with belt sander and grinder.









I also made two 1/2" thick bumpers to match the tank bushings.  I'll mount these to help keep the tank vertical-




Bushings on the frame-




Along with bike details like the distributor and coil, these tank bushings helped develop the pattern for the tunnel as the buck was produced. 

After the clay models of tank and seat were deemed suitable, I developed poster board templates directly from the clay to produce buck stations.  These patterns were reversed to provide matching stations for each side of the tank and seat.  The tank buck was produced as indentical halves, so the joint between the halves would serve as centerline.   Furniture-grade 3/4" maple plywood was used.

Tank backbone halves, assembled-





In process, adding stations-




Assembled with all stations cut to approximate contour but not faired-



The seat buck stations were produced as full width upon a solid base. 







The rear fender is an abbreviated piece that ends under the seat on the original bikes.  Having made a fender eliminator for an XR1000 in the past that was carefully measured but quickly gobbled by the rear wheel, I tried to make this one with adequate clearance.  Two radii- one to the front fender mount on the battery tray and the other to the rear fender most on the frame loop- were blended.  The cross section fender radius, which is the same on these two original mounts, was also used.  A buck was produced using this information. 






langston hughes the negro speaks of rivers analysis


Not sure how long or short the rear fender will actually be. Also not sure how the seat and fender will fit together.  Seat may need a slight bulge for clearance.  After I make the parts and fit all together with the tail light, more decisions will be made.

Pics of the tank and seat bucks on the bike, very cool...-









More later... 
« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 08:16:42 PM by cliffrod »
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

Offline Turin

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2019, 12:09:47 AM »
  :popcorn:
This is going to be great... keep it coming!
2000 Quota 1100 es
1997 Daytona RS
1987 LeMans SE Dave's Cycle Racer
1974 850-T Sport
1969 A-series Ambassador
1996 Triumph Daytona 1200
1991 Ducati 907ie ( Paso )
1982 Alfa Romeo GTV6 Balocco SE 3.0

Offline Rick4003

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2019, 12:16:10 AM »
Very very good! cool project! Keep the posts coming, I am very interested in the sheet metal shaping side of the project as well as everything else.  :thumb: :bow:
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline cliffrod

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2019, 07:12:31 AM »
I'll post details about the actual process related to the panel work.  I'm a hobbyist but the work extends the reach of my studio.  Many aspects parallel my sculpture work in stone.  In contrast, metal work is fast, cheap and portable versus comparable projects in stone.

Panel Work has intrigued me since I was a teenager.  Saw my first pic of a cast iron English Wheel at a sports car club meeting on the first weekend of April 1987. I kept that magazine and finally got my own cast iron wheeling machine 30 yrs later, almost exactly to the day. No disappointments. 

My metal shop is small and already crowded.  until a couple weeks ago I had only my English Wheel, stump, B2 Beverly Shear, a couple of arbor presses and some hand tools specifically for this work.  I have a TIG but prefer oxygen/acetylene for many jobs.  2 1/2 weeks ago, I purchased a large Gairu MI-8 reciprocating machine (equivalent to a Pullmax P8 Universal Machine) from a race shop near Charlotte Motor Speedway. These are extremely versatile machines and arguably the easiest machines to tool & adapt to a wide range of jobs including beading, forming, shaping, shearing and shrinking.  Never expected to have anything like this, but now that it's here I'm anxious to put it into service in the near future.  No matter, this work can be done with very simple tools.

I'm on two metalworking forums- www.allmetalshaping.com is a large forum with a very wide range of talent & methods.   www.metalshapershub.com is a new forum for those focused upon traditional methods.  Master metalman Peter Tommasini is the driving force behind MetalShapersHub.  He's also the source for my HandBuilt cast iron English Wheel, which he developed and manufactures.  This project will be documented on those forums, as well as here.  For anyone involved or interested in panelwork and Metal shaping, these forums offer great resource.

1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2019, 07:12:31 AM »

Offline Pescatore

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2019, 12:53:59 PM »
I appreciate this forum just for these incredible (to me) projects.  It has expanded my imagination on what is possible to rebuild, for a weekend warrior.
Impatiently awaiting more pictures...
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Offline cliffrod

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2019, 03:15:52 PM »
My projects are often drawn out, with necessary tangents and opportunities taking priority as they arise.  Here's a few details of parts chasing over the past year-

Guzzi offered no tachometer on the early Loop bikes.  There was no provision in the timing chest for a mechanical tach until the V7 Sport was released and the now familiar Moto Guzi black faced Veglia electronic tach had not yet been produced.  We studied pictures to decide the brand of tach used and then I determined the specifc model.  No speedometer was fitted. For the Record bikes, Tonti use an aftermarket VDO electric tachometer suitable for 6V or 12V and adjustable for use on 2, 4, 6 or 8 cylinder engines.    Apparently it was not a special or highly collectible tachometer.  This made finding one to be a challenge. 

After enough searching, one dealer was located in the Netherlands who searched his inventory of 1500+ gauges for approx 3 months to produce a single, almost correct NOS tach.  The Record bikes had tachs with a black trim ring, presumably to limit potential for glare when riding at high speed.   The NOS tach has a chrome trim ring, which I may leave as is or simply paint black.  During those three months of unknown results, I found another similar VDO tach.  It was/is well used and with the proper blacked-out trim ring, but has an adjustable rev limit pointer with corresponding penetration through the lens.  Not sure that it works, but having a one to service just in case was prudent.






Carbs

The original Record bikes were built to pursue top speed records.  both bikes were equipped with 38mm remote bowl Dellorto SS2 carbs on straightened intakes which point approximately straight towards the respective vertical frame members near the swing arm.  My bike did have both original 29mm SS1 carbs, which are tempting to run.  But, between their real world traffic manners and the fact that I'll upgrade to 750 cylinders during the mechanical rebuild, I'll likely change carbs.  I have an excellent pair of square slide 30mm VHB carbs, just like those on my V7 Sport, and this pair of 32mm PHB carbs, which would look a little more like the original SS2 carbs.

No decision has been made yet- maybe someone can offer feedback from experience, especially regarding changing carbs, intake configuration and adding custom headpipes with reverse cone megaphone exhaust all at once?





Tail light

A pet peeve with many customs is how often the details cheapen the end result.  Seeing another cheap no name aftermarket, Model A, HD limp dick or whatever dime a dozen tail light loses me.  This is an Italian bike.  It should have Italian parts.  One of my all time favorite tail lights that no one uses is the late 50's & early 60's CEV horizontal D tail light that came on bikes like the Ducati Elite and others. It's simply gorgeous.  This form apparently inspired many later bikes which feature a larger but similar horizontal D tail light.

This unit originally uses a pair of tiny 6v barrel bulbs, so I will have to upgrade the lamp assembly.  I sourced a pair of new tail light assemblies from Italy, which was more economical than buying a single $$$ one on eBay from here in the USA.   It will nestle nicely in a trimmed-out portion of the seat hump and be nice having a light with CEV and part numbers on the chrome bezel....  Very cool.  Not sure if this will also be the license plate mount I will use, but that would make sense.  Once this light, seat and rear fender are arranged and in place, I'll decide how short to cut the rear fender.




After assembling a pair of Tommaselli clip ons and matador levers to use (just because that would match my V7 Sport), I was able to identify and then source a pair of original style clip-ons using welded perches and parallel cable exit.  No pics since these bars haven't been ordered yet, but will be ordered with other needed parts directly from Italy as funds allow.

1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

Offline Mayor_of_BBQ

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2019, 11:05:25 AM »
Hey AC,

Was thinking about your project since seeing it at the Meltdown in may, and your progress by the time of the Guzzi lunch at Greenhouse....

You've got a huge tank there to work with, and judging from the seating position and intended use of the bike... it doesnt seem like you are going to need 4-5 gal of gas capacity for extended long tours or marathon rides (or endurance racing attempts  :evil:)

Since you are going the street-legal route, and will have a lot more electronic do-dads and wires and such than the original bikes...  it seems you could block out a 'false' section or box in the underside of the tank to stash that stuff along the frame tubes and hide it from view by fitting the tank over it to preserve the look of a race bike. Seems like 3 gallon tank capacity would be more than enough for this rig?

Just a thought, love this project, will be following

Chad
Chad (Shadrach) in Asheville NC
1970 Ambo (shiny resto-mod)
1984 V65 Cafe Racer (ongoing cafe project)
2007 Breva 1100 (Sport 1200 tribute)

Offline cliffrod

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2019, 01:05:27 PM »
Hey AC,

Was thinking about your project since seeing it at the Meltdown in may, and your progress by the time of the Guzzi lunch at Greenhouse....

You've got a huge tank there to work with, and judging from the seating position and intended use of the bike... it doesnt seem like you are going to need 4-5 gal of gas capacity for extended long tours or marathon rides (or endurance racing attempts  :evil:)

Since you are going the street-legal route, and will have a lot more electronic do-dads and wires and such than the original bikes...  it seems you could block out a 'false' section or box in the underside of the tank to stash that stuff along the frame tubes and hide it from view by fitting the tank over it to preserve the look of a race bike. Seems like 3 gallon tank capacity would be more than enough for this rig?

Just a thought, love this project, will be following

Chad

Ive tossed around that idea, Chad.  Installing baffles has also been discussed, maybe even with you (?). My CRS and ADD tendencies regularly fight for my full attention....

The one thing that I hate about riding an old Sportster with a stock tank like mine is going 40-50 miles and then knowing there better be gas nearby immediately or else. Even worse with a heavy throttle hand, hotter engine or both.  That XR1000 was good for about 30 miles on racing gas. On any significant ride going away from the shop,  someone had to follow with extra gas.  Not cool.  So I think I'm going to err on the side of too much tank and simply underfill it if it's an issue.  I don't ride just to ride much anymore.  Did that a lot long ago, now there's other responsibilities obligating me all the time.   

I do want to be able to ride this bike from here in Spartanburg to Knoxville area on this bike, which is around 200 miles depending upon specifics.    There's great roads between here & there that I've ridden & enjoyed for a long time on my Sport.  being able to go that distance with one tank, like I can on my Sport, sure beats the Sportster scenario.  The overall posture when on this bike is very close to my Sport, which should mean a comparable level of general comfort for such a distance in one bite- except for the thinner padding on the seat.
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

Offline cliffrod

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2019, 01:21:07 PM »
This project is largely one of a predicated order.  Many of the specific details are dependent upon neighboring changes.    The more it was studied, the more clear it became where to begin.

As the build began, one of the first steps was to remove the front end tin.  The fork shrouds with headlight ears and  chrome spring covers crimped to the lowers were removed from the Record bikes.  Springs were left exposed, as was common on many Italian specials and race bikes, and the spring cups were retained.  Removing the tins facilitated use of clip-on handlebars.   I have always wanted a vintage Italian sporting bike with such exposed springs...

The lower or rear front fender mount was then rotated to be parallel to the fork lowers, a tab was added to each side and then bolted to the upper fender mount receiver.  This served as a simple fork brace. 

Both chrome covers are waiting to be removed and the fork brace to be finished.







I will retain the long headlight and fabricate mounts that look related to the great looking headlight ears found on the V7 Sport.  The larger headlight will house any necessary electrical components.

The V700 and Ambassador had similar but not identical top fork plates, triple tree, etc.  these were steel covered by the large alloy valance that houses the speedometer and warning lights.   Everything except the steel plate was missing from my bike.  It basically looked like this-



At this point,with the tank buck in place, it's obvious that this won't work.  So Tonti modified the steel top plate and made a simple aluminum valance to cover it.  The V700 front end/top plate has greater offset than later versions.  This creates a steeper front end and faster steering which is typically associated with sporting bikes. Jeff, the previously mentioned Record bike fan, modified a V700 offset top plate before learning Tonti used a later top plate with less offset- presumably for a longer wheelbase and greater top speed stability.  His build is more accurate than mine.  I planned to modify & use my original V700 parts.  But before I modified mine, he sent me his spare set.





Side by side, the difference between stock and modified is easy to see.  Now the two rear corners of the top plate easily clear the tank buck with steering at full lock.





This top plate was painted black on the Record bikes, as this one will be,


1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

Offline cliffrod

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2019, 02:39:39 PM »
After the modified top plate/ triple tree was in place, I began working on the tank.  Using pics of the unfaired bikes plus this image from the MG Museum of the existing original Record Bike with full fairing, I began-



 

At some point, I do plan to make a full fairing assembly like this one.  For now, that part of the project can wait.

Initially, a 2D chipboard cut-out was made from a beer case box for the seat to go with a simple plywood mock-up.




forum image hosting


Then I began wedging plastilina (non-hardening microcrystalline clay) onto a wooden armature to further develop the tank and seat in 3D.  Many will scan and use computer technology as a priority.  I like doing it myself. this is also how all my studio models are produced.





Working alone in studio can complicate one's ability to maintain perspective.  Without someone else's input for a sounding board, I've found it helps to have divergent projects working at the same time.  Time away from one helps clarify the other.  Over the winter and spring, the clay for tank and seat took shape very well.









Finally, I decided tank and seat clay models to be finished and it was time to begin work on fabricating the wooden bucks-





More soon...

« Last Edit: September 01, 2019, 02:48:09 PM by cliffrod »
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

Online Dave Swanson

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2019, 02:56:10 PM »
This is such a cool project!  You are taking this Guzzisti thing to an extreme! 
Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario

MGNOC L-780

Offline cliffrod

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2019, 03:13:30 PM »
This is such a cool project!  You are taking this Guzzisti thing to an extreme!

Dave,  It looks like you have both a V700 and an Eldo.  Maybe you would be willing to look at your bikes for me?  I need help.

The original Record bikes were operated with no side or center stand.  When parked, some pics show the later curved Ambo-Eldo center stand in place, which does look more graceful than the V700 centerstand.  Can you look and tell me if the bumper or stand stop on frame for both the V700 center stand and later Ambo-Eldo stand is similar, identical, very different, same place, ??   

When I cut the passenger peg frame loops to modify the frame for the rear sets, the OEM center stand bumper location will be lost.  I need to start planning how to resolve that.  I have to make and install the rearsets before I can do any significant work to make the exhaust.

If I just leave the sidestand in place as a workaround, that will interfere with an original-style full fairing that I plan to produce in the future....

Maybe you or someone else can help me with this information?
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

Online Dave Swanson

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2019, 03:36:35 PM »
I checked both frames and the center stand bumper is located in the same place for both.

This is the V700

Dave Swanson - Northern IL
1935 GTS
1968 V700
1973 V7 Sport
1974 Eldo
1977 Vert
1977 Lemans 1.2
1980 T3 California
1993 1000S - Sparklehorse
2004 V11S - Eraldo-ized
2015 Norge GT8V - Beetle-ized
2016 Griso SE - Beetle-ized
2021 V7-850 Stone Centenario

MGNOC L-780

Offline cliffrod

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2019, 05:49:36 PM »
I checked both frames and the center stand bumper is located in the same place for both.

This is the V700



Thanks, Dave.  I thought they were the same and wanted confirmation.  I'll keep figuring it out.
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

Offline cliffrod

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2019, 04:29:37 PM »
Fabricating the bucks for rear fender, seat and tank.

These bucks are more complicated than the few I've made in the past.  Producing properly places, well-cut & tight fitting joints while using my bandsaw was a priority.   I used furniture-grade 3/4" Maple faced plywood.  These three bucks required less than 1 full sheet of plywood, including a few pieces that needed to be cut again.  No glue or filler was used.   Hands handling metal get dirty and smudge the wood, so I apply whatever I have available for polyurethane to the bucks after completion before metal shaping begins.  This keep the bucks cleaner during use and they look better later, especially as the poly yellows and honeys as time passes.


1.  Rear Fender Buck-

This is the least complicated buck of the three.  It did require the most fitted joints to be cut.  Good practice.

Some pics show a short rear fender eliminator.  Some don't.  It even appears and disappears from the full fairing Record bike in the MG Museum, depending upon when pictures are taken.  It doesn't seem to be a cut-down OEM rear fender.

I estimated the general shape by taking a radius from the axle, at rest,  to the fender mount on battery tray and another radius from the axle to the rear frame fender mount.  then I merged these two on paper by eyeballing where the transition looked appropriate.





This pattern was transferred to plywood, sawed and sanded on the large belt sander.  A decision was made about the number of stations to be produced.  Placement for eight stations was laid out on the blank-





The cross section radius of the fender was copied from the battery tray and frame fender mounts.  This was used to develop the pattern for the eight buck stations.  These were cut out on the bandsaw.  Then these were ganged together with screws so they could be sanded together to closely match.  At first I sanded 4 ganged together at a time.









After the stations were close, I began laying out sawing parameters for fitment on both the main armature and the individual stations.  Practice is important to know how your bandsaw will cut, drift, the side of the line to watch and kerf as well as what will break blades, etc.   Sharp blades drift less and break less (because they require less tension)  than less happy blades.  It's simple to braze a broken blade back together if it's still good & sharp.  Doing that is not an inconvenience- it is another chance practice to make nice viable joints in metal.   

I made a simple transfer gauge from a piece of scrap-









Then I set up the two stacks of stations to lay out the cutting lines.  The transfer gauge was clamped in the benchmate, the stacks were centered and aligned and marked for cutting.









After marking the tops, the transfer gauge was removed from the benchmate and the cut line was transferred along the adjacent sides.





Then to the bandsaw to SLOWLY cut along these lines.  Going slow helps limit blade drift between top & bottom and subsequent crooked cuts....   





After sawing, alignment and quality of cut for a tight fit can be checked by fitting over a piece of the same plywood.  All was good, so none had to be recut- very cool.  The two stacks are ganged together, face to face as the cuts were laid out, and trued all together on the belt sander. 





I did tune the sawed slot while they were ganged together with an improvise sanding board.  Worked slow but helped make great joints.







 

 You probably notice a couple of the stations are missing corners.  That comes from being cheap (Guzzi content) and using scrap from the previous buck....

Then it was a simple task to use the same transfer gauge and the slotted stations to lay out cut lines on the main armature, go to the band saw and keep moving forward-





I did decide to relieve the edges of all the stations for a stringer along each side. Then put it together and tuned it up a little on the belt sander.  Since it all fit well, it didn't need much.. 





I decided to remove a portion of each side stringer so it would be easy to install the buck in a vise while I was using it to save workbench space.  The only assembly hardware used were the shown screws.  No glue and nearly all was a press-tight fit.









Add some polyurethane, let dry, sand lightly, tack, repeat as couple of times and it looks like store bought.  very cool.





On to the next one..
« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 08:34:50 PM by cliffrod »
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

Offline cliffrod

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2019, 06:46:39 PM »
Seat and Tank Bucks-

The seat buck was more complicated than the tank buck, so it came next.   The seat buck and tank buck building process were similar to each other.  I thought I had taken more pics of the seat buck in process, but apparently not so there's not much to show.  It combined similar joinery of the fender buck with a less repetitive composition.  Individual station patterns were developed using posterboard patterns taken directly from the clay.  This was done the same way as will be shown for the tank buck.  read on..   

A few pics of the seat buck-

In process-









Finished, less polyurethane





The tank posed different challenges.  The tunnel is a more determinant and complicated shape to produce.  Too many bike projects I've studied have tunnels that are only an afterthought not well conceived imho.  the pretty outside is produced and whatever will fit is hidden underneath.  Not cool.  If you've had a variety of cool Italian tanks, you understand that some thought went into the various cut-outs and clearance bulges that differentiate certain tanks.  So I began with the tunnel considerations to incorporate the tunnel shape into the buck.

the original Record bikes apparently used a simple bungee cord, at least on the rear, to hold the tank in place.  I'll probably not do that.  I do need to clear the distributor cap, ignition coil and generator (planned to be changed to alternator).  As mentioned, I've always favored the black urethane tank mounting bushing like used on my V7 Sport over the typical foam & electrical tape or water pipe insulation.... 

Problem was that the V7 Sport bushings won't begin to fit around the larger top frame tube of a Loop frame.   I searched at length for a suitable off-the-shelf item, like a sway bar bushing, but found nothing of adequate size.  So I started making them.   As an experiment, I sacrificed my only hockey puck.  I made a fixture to hold it, offset cut/sawed the center with a hole saw in the drill press, used the belt sander to shape it and a 1/4" wheel on a bench grinder to cut the slot around the circumference.  It was too hard (around 90 durometer) and too small in both diameter and thickness, but it looked like I could do it.  I sourced enough black urethane spring die stock from a local craigslist seller and made what I needed.













I also made two 1/2" thick bumpers to match the tank bushings.  I'll mount these to help keep the tank vertical-





Image showing hockey puck experimental bushing (top) usable finished urethane bushing (left) blank for second urethane bushing (center) and spring die stock (right)-





Bushings on the frame-





Along with bike details like the distributor and coil, these tank bushings helped develop the pattern for the tunnel as the buck was produced.   I started by standing a spare moped crate over the bike to use as a basic measuring reference.  Since the clay tank model was only a half of the tank with a flat plywood backside, it was relatively simple to trace a pattern of the uppermost profile of the tank clay.  Then the clay was removed, the top tube was traced onto the pattern with a 1/2" allowance for the newly-made tank mounting bushings.  Now I had the basic backbone armature pattern for my tank buck. 









I had previously decided to make two of these in order to construct the buck in identical halves.  the joint between them will be the centerline along the top of the frame.  These pieces were marked and cut from the same 3/4" maple plywood.  The were temporarily attached to each other with with screws and dressed to match on the belt sander.   

As with the fender and seat, the number of equally-spaced buck stations was determined and laid out on the two plywood pieces.  Joinery for this buck was more complicated.  Proportionally deep notches or dadoes in this backbone would weaken the buck.  It would be even worse if the buck was not produced in halves.  Instead of complicated joinery, measurements were determined & the table saw fence was set to saw several strips of plywood.  Smaller pieces of these strips were cut to length and screwed to each side of the backbone halves.  A piece of plywood was placed between them and a transfer guage was used to keep everything in alignment.  The small overage used to help index their placement was then removed, as were the through screws as this progressed.  Before the through screws were removed, the entire assembly was progressively  drilled to receive more substantial bolts and t-nuts.    Now I could later separate the halves as needed.  this all provides a simple means to produce a well-developed and robust buck. Very cool.





Tank backbone halves, fully assembled-






Now it was time to pull patterns from the clay tank model.  There are many ways people capture and transfer such information.  I do it regularly in studio.  For this, it was especially simple because I had prepared properly. 

Nearly all measurement work in granite is referenced from the bottom or joint of the stone.  Since this tank is flat on the bottom  I installed a properly leveled flat platform barely touching the tank and extending beyond the bottom. 





The station locations were transferred  from the armature backbone (placed on top of the frame with bushings) onto the joint platform





These locations were marked with 3/4" wide blue tape.





The station information was then transferred onto the clay tank buck.  marking them directly into the clay.









Because I had intentionally used the "wrong" clay (too soft for typical vehicle design work) the rest was simple.    I cut poster board blanks with a pair of perpendicular edges, representing the vertical center line at top and horizontal bottom, successively approximated the general shape to remove for each face of a specific buck station until it was very close and the bury the poster board into the clay so I could directly trace the shape of the clay onto the poster board.





By cutting the smaller side first, the larger face could then be quickly trimmed to approx dimension to be fine tuned into shape.  Before long, I had a full set of poster board patterns for each station which could be used in reverse to produce the partnering station for the opposite side of the tank.    The basic station blanks were placed before being marked to saw and roughly sand into shape.









I was able to similarly trace end patterns for the tank.  This allowed me to make a pair of end stations to properly locate the tank front to back.





When the individual stations were produced, 3/4" was removed from both the perpendicular edges to allow for the backbone plywood element and the bottom.  the general bottom exterior shape was traced from the clay, while the interior edge was developed to allow clearance for the 1/2" tank bushings and the various engine-related concerns.  This was not photographed.  while wrapping up the bottoms, I was rushing to have the general bucks ready for a show display. 





No matter, when tank & seat bucks were on the bike, it was looking good even if it was still kinda square.









and finally, I had time to move things along from boxy to curvy...








upload image


These bucks look even better when they're on the bike-













I still have some work to do fairing the stations on the tank buck and resolving the front corners.   So far only a few bolts with Tee nuts and visible screws between stations and through bottoms into stations have been used.  It is very solid.  I will separate the halves and add screws to the stations through the respective backbone.  I have started adding spacers between the stations along the bottom to further strengthen the assembly.  Then all will be faired and sealed with polyurethane.

The fender and seat are both shaped in metal and awaiting trimming & welding.  The next several weeks are completely full with studio work so I doubt there will be much Guzzi progress for a while.  Getting the pics out of bondage to get this posted over this weekend has been great.   For those interested, there will be more to come...


« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 08:21:54 PM by cliffrod »
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

Offline Groover

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2019, 08:16:30 AM »
Mixed-media project, loving it! I'll be tuned-in. Thanks for making this thread!
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1987 Moto Guzzi LM1000SE, b
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1980 Piaggio Vespa P125X
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Offline cliffrod

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa Record
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2019, 07:52:49 PM »
There isn't a lot to post about making the rear fender, at least right now.  With a completed buck, simple dimensions and plans to make it longer & wider than needed so it could be trimmed to size later, there wasn't much need for a paper pattern.  I took it to a recent annual metal shaping event, called the Redneck Roundup, as a casual project.  All of these pics are a couple of weeks old.

Of the various items to be made, the rear fender needed to be produced first.  I cut out a blank from some scrap .063 thick aluminum that I got for free (Guzzi content) from an old motorcycle friend years ago.  It's been here waiting for just such a use.  The blank was fairly long, covering the full length of the buck and approx 4" wider than the final dimension.   The only pic I have of the early stages is this one, after the blank was briefly worked with an arbor press.  Puckers are visible along the edge, which will be employed to shrink the edges and develop the shape.  I'm on left (apparently taking a nap...), Imperial Wheeling Machine owner Pat Brubaker is at center holding the fender blank and Bill Tromblay is on right, just out of frame.  some of PatMan's arbor press tooling in the foreground was being used at this point.





The rest of the RR was a blur.... Seminars, Bugattis, great food & even better friends, ..  No more fender pics.    I had time for more shaping on the fender.  By the time I left, I had a well-developed semicircle of lumpy metal that approximated the buck. 

When I got home to my less-complicated shop, I spent a little time on the stump further shrinking the edges & on the English wheel smoothing things out.  it progressed very quickly.  As the shape was resolved, I trimmed the edges that suffered the most attention during shrinking to remove unhappy metal. 





After that, I began turning a false wire edge along each side.  This will both help stiffen/strengthen the fender and give it a more professional appearance. I marked the layout for the wire edge by gently using a slapper along the buck stations.  Then I began turning the edge in slow increments along the entire edge of each side using a slapper & sharp dolly plus a hammer when things got tight.




pic hosting


As the edge is turned and begins to close, I used a length of gas welding rod as a mandrel to help create the false (hollow) wire edge.  Some modify a set of pliers, especially on the portion that contact the outer edge to limit scarring of the metal.  I simply use a pad, made froma scrap of the same parent metal as the job, to cover the potentially offending teeth while leaving the other teeth exposed for better grip.  In general, like doesn't scratch like so there is no marring or damage.  Very cheap, very effective.





The pliers are used to close the false wire edge as tightly as possible while the wire can still be removed. After the wire is removed, it's tightened up a little more.  I do plan to use a pair of pliers with longer handles & better leverage in the future. (Edit- this pic is was taken before the edge was fully closed or crimped with pliers..)  These did an adequate job for a first run on scrap metal.





After all shaping was done and both sides were rolled with a false wire edge, the fender fits the buck pretty well. 





It still needs to be significantly trimmed to length once decisions are made about fender-seat-taillight arrangement. 
Seat progress pics are next.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 08:21:51 PM by cliffrod »
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

Offline cliffrod

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2019, 12:04:37 PM »
Building the seat is more of a challenge, both with shaping the pieces and welding them together.  I like to weld.  Doesn't mean I'm great at it yet, especially gas welding thin aluminum..   the seat, just like the fender, were made from scrap I had for this first run.  There's a lot of fitting to be done to develop the overall seat-fender-taillight assembly.  The way I approached it was to make these parts, do what needs to be done to make them all work together and then remake them if necessary. 

Not interested in CAD.   I would rather make & remake parts including all welding to become better at craft than typing, For reference, this is the vast majority of my metal shaping gear- A HandBuilt cast iron English wheel by Peter Tommasini, a stump, a shot bag and a Beverly Shear plus assortment of hammers, dollies & a few other simple hand tools.  I have a TIG but prefer to gas weld whenever feasible 





Making the seat-

First, I used the seat buck to develop a paper pattern for the front portion of the seat.










The blank was marked, cut and bent.










I produced a false wire edge along the lower edges of the seat as well to help stiffen and strengthen it.  The sidewall height of the seat is a concern, depending upon the mounting arrangement.  This seat is longer than the original, with additional length added to front in area where I shortened the tank approx 4 inches.  The top tube of the frame had little interaction with the seat on the original Record bikes.  I may notch the front of the seat more for better frame/seat agreement or may need to do another seat pan later.  We'll see.  For now, the false wire edge-











I made paper pattern of one half of the seat hump.  Folds denote areas where shrinking needs to occur and the amount of shrinking necessary can be mitigated by creating nearby areas with adequate stretch.  When shaped, the two halves will be welded along the center line and then welded to the seat pan.  After a pattern was in hand, both blanks were marked and cut. an ample allowance was produces around the edges, especially along the bottom where shrinking would be done.  It makes shrinking a little more difficult, but will  be easier to trim & clean up any defects created during the work.








First, I created some form in the metal by bending it to fit the buck along the center line.  My plan was to not shrink this edge of the metal.   since I planned to weld here, this would make a more more consistent area of metal thickness to help me produce a better weld.





Shrinking on the stump is done by striking the metal near the edge with a hammer over a hollow area of the stump.  This raises a wrinkle or tuck along the edge, which is then hammered flat to trap & compress the metal.  This shortened area causes neighboring metal to transition from flat to curved.  If this curved area is them stretched by striking it with a hammer over a soft base like a shot bag, the curve is enhanced.  By doing both processes in unison as needed, complex shape can be developed very quickly in aluminum. 

















After initial shaping and shrinking, the lumpy metal is rolled between the upper wheel and lower anvil of an English Wheel to smooth the surface.  Additional pressure will cause additional stretching. simple contact without additional pressure (adjustment between upper & lower anvil is approx the thickness of the metal) will simply smooth out the rough surface.








Then, repeat until finished.  Keep checking the development of form (simple bending) and shape (complex curves created by stretching and/or shrinking) by fitting the piece against the buck.  Many times a piece may be shaped "incorrectly"- according to the fit on the buck- on purpose so it can be manipulated into the proper shape by another process.   A good example is shrinking the sides of a motorcycle fender-shaped piece too much so that the radius is too tight.  The piece is then pulled apart by the ends. this will simultaneously cause the radius to open up or increase as the sides drop down (deeper cross sectional curve)   There was a lot of this done with the seat hump.


free image hosting
 






















The first 95% happens pretty quickly.  The next 4%, a little slower.  The final 1% it the hard part.  That's why it helps to understand how working the metal in a manner that isn't obvious will often produce the result you seek.  When it actually fits the buck, it's very cool.  After it fit, I turned a flange on the front of the hump half.  I ended up not retaining this flange for welding as initially planned, but it was useful.
 
 















Then you do the other half and have two pieces to fit against each other, then trim in preparation for welding-












 

More to come..


   
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

Offline Frenchfrog

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2019, 02:08:50 PM »
This kind of work always amazes me !! Thanks so much for sharing all of this with us...most entertaining !!
 

Offline cliffrod

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2019, 04:11:01 PM »
Making the seat hump in two pieces is a chance to practice both making parts to match and then welding shapes, as I work towards building the tank.  Making the hump in one piece is easier (making it from the back end of an old gas tank and pop-riveting it onto an original seat pan is faster & even easier....). It doesn't matter- I need the practice.  These parts aren't perfect, but they're close enough for this exercise.  I had concerns about the hump-taillight agreement, so erred on the side of bigger instead of smaller.

After parts were trimmed, they were gas welded together.  Since the metal grew some, the original .063 edge that hadn't been worked was trimmed away so it was more like .050 thick.  There were some nice short segments, along with a few holes that were welded up.  Then the high spots were removed with a vixen file. 





I had turned a flange on the front of the two halves, with tentative plans to better finish, slightly trim and produce a butt weld between flange & the similarly trimmed seat pan.  I had a better fit to the buck & flange by trimming this flange away, so I did and produced a corner weld instead.  Another ok weld, not perfect but good practice.









Now I had a seat in one piece.  More ok welds.  Not perfect & some repairs needed, but it's very serviceable.  Still need to trim the lower rear portion and continue the false wire edge along the hump portion.    A test fit on the bike goes well.  The fender and seat agree very well. 





From this view, it's easy to see the hump is taller & more round than the original seat.  A detail I'm trying to create is part of the reason it's taller.  The original Record bikes used a seat that was likely fiberglass & simply off the shelf, not custom made for the bikes.  The period pictures show the seat is pulled in or compressed by the rear attachment screws.  This deforms the smooth round shape of the hump and creates a slight shoulder and concave area on the sides.  I didn't think I could make a definitive shape and have it look this natural & incidental. 

Instead, I made a little extra height on top and planned to move it to make more of a shoulder.  Using a slapper (bent file with teeth on striking face removed & highly polished) a couple of hammers and dollies, I slowly worked down the crown while working the shoulder areas outward to tighten up the lowered crown.  Don't stretch the metal.  I just moved or rearranged the length & shale that was already there.  This worked very well.

When all looked good, I made a paper pattern from the buck to guide trimming of the lower area of hump.







Then I marked the aluminum, trimmed and filed as needed and continued turning the false wire edge along the hump portion.




It came out well, nice flow.





The hump is much shorter than when originally welded and is much closer to the profile of the buck.





I haven't done both sides yet, as I still need to fix a welding flaw on the other side before trimming and rolling the edge.






joslyn baby name


But for now, things are ok enough to offset the seat on the frame for test fitting against the fender.  The fender was made to fit the buck and it fits great.  But it doesn't fit the bike properly.  It wouldn't reach both factory spender mounts on frame & battery tray.  The problem apparently lies with how I merged the two radii and the decreased clearance above the frame with this seat pan vs a stock Loop frame seat pan.    The trailing edge of the fender was too close to the tire, as is.  I didn't want the tire to grab the fender.  btdt, not cool..

So, I did what I described earlier.  I pulled on the ends of the fender to slightly open up the radius. It worked great and was not enough change to significantly impact the cross section radius of the fender..  Now the fender fit both factory mounting points.  Better yet, it clears the seat by approx 1/"4 with potential to make it fit closer.  And it looks great.





A few more shots, one with the fender alone and one with fender and seat.  obviously with the seat offset because only one side has been finished but still a good demonstration of where things are going.







Meanwhile, I also mocked up the CEV taillight.   I'm trying to develop details that are not Record original details to be as balanced as I can.  The seat and light is a good example.  The opening for the taillight should be just under 5".  When viewed from the rear at eye level, the seat hump is approx 1 1/2" wide to,the right and left of the light opening.  So there's approx 3" of seat hump visible vs a tall it that just over 4 3/4" wide.  The golden ratio is just over 1.6:1, but using a factor of 1.6 is a quick way to check balance between two details.  3" X 1.6 = 4.8".  Very cool. Once all is properly finished,trimmed, edge rolled, rear cut away and fitted at center, it should look great. 






The extra height of the hump should also help marry the seat and light.  The original Record seat hump was fairly small.  Cutting the end away for the light or hanging the light on the back was not what I wanted to do. Slightly enlarging the hump made more sense.

As the taillight and license plate fitment is resolved, the rear fender will be shortened.  Probably will start by trimming it just longer than the license plate and turning a slight lip or bead on the fender.   I also need to work the front of the seat to better fit with the frame top tube & along the other tangent frame rails.  The gap is unsightly, but also concerned about bending the seat pan.  Mounting arrangement needs address, so this will all be done together.





With all the concerns to address resolving fitment of seat-frame-taillight-frame, this seat may ultimately serve to be the pattern for the next seat.  For now, it's good to have it in hand to use..






1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

Offline Rick4003

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2019, 03:21:56 AM »
 :thumb: :popcorn:
Very good progress, aluminium welding is not easy. I have only done it with TIG, I could imagine that it is difficult managing the heat with a torch.

Keep the updates coming! It is going to be a great looking bike!
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Offline cliffrod

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2019, 06:55:04 AM »
:thumb: :popcorn:
Very good progress, aluminium welding is not easy. I have only done it with TIG, I could imagine that it is difficult managing the heat with a torch.

Keep the updates coming! It is going to be a great looking bike!

Thanks, Rick.  Gas welding aluminum is a real challenge & skill set that I want to secure.  Lots to learn. 

I've got a nice TIG, but it isn't how I want to do it.    The quiet of the simple gear does a lot for me.  I have enough noise in studio doing stone.  Loud pneumatics & hammers and a buzzing, whining TIG isn't what I want when I have time to do metal if it can be avoided.  Doing it similar to how the original Record bikes were built is important as well.  Maybe they used TIG but probably not.
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

Offline wirespokes

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2019, 09:01:45 AM »
Fascinating stuff! I'd love to do something like this.

Evan Wilcox who's famous for custom gas tanks and his aluminum work, I've been told uses Hydrogen to weld aluminum with the gas welder. He prefers that to tig as well.

Offline cliffrod

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2019, 11:28:44 AM »
I've known about Evan and followed his work to some extent since the 90's.   He was one of the first really visible USA-based men doing sport bike & cafe-oriented stuff while the OCC/WCC chopper stuff was in the spotlight.

Welding with oxy-hydrogen employs a flame that is completely invisible, which is one less distraction.  I am set up with acetylene because I build/rebuild all of my carbide chisels for stone work- lots of brazing with some heat treating & basic forging work.

Adding a tank or two of hydrogen would be great, but is another $$$ so not right now.   Still need to buy more Guzzi parts first....
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

Offline Rick4003

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2019, 11:46:08 AM »
David Gardiner who made the bodywork restoration DVD that I have also swears by oxy/acetylene. I would like to try with it, but the lack of a oxy/acetylene setup makes it a bit difficult :)

David also swears for oxy/ac when welding steel. I think it was because it makes a less brittle heat affected zone after welding. Should make it easier to form afterwards.

Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline cliffrod

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2019, 12:10:07 PM »
Proper Oxy-Act welds are fully equitable to the parent metal, very malleable and less prone to cracking.  Pretty hard to believe how much abuse a gas weld will withstand.  The heat affected zone is larger, but that can be managed.    Usually the only time I won't gas weld something is when it has too much mass.  You'll use up a lot of gas or time or both preheating the whole thing in order to produce the needed penetration.  TIG is less brittle than Stick or MIG, but still not soft like a gas weld. 

If you're wheeling a weld, running it through a bead roller, power planishing or whatever, gas welds are less likely to cause damage to your equipment.  Gas welds are usually the least likely to crack.  If you're thorough, you can gas weld up a big hump of aluminum and then hammer/plan is hit down to a desired thickness.  It will be just as durable as a regular coupon of comparable sheet aluminum.

To me, having a basic gas welding rig is as mandatory as having a vise or grinder or drill press in a shop.  Nothing else is as versatile.  Electric welders are great for fast work, but they have more limits.  You can weld thick material with gas when needed.  It just uses up a lot of fuel.  It isn't hard to gas weld.  It just takes practice.
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

Offline s1120

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2019, 06:34:58 AM »
As the taillight and license plate fitment is resolved, the rear fender will be shortened.  Probably will start by trimming it just longer than the license plate and turning a slight lip or bead on the fender.   I also need to work the front of the seat to better fit with the frame top tube & along the other tangent frame rails.  The gap is unsightly, but also concerned about bending the seat pan.  Mounting arrangement needs address, so this will all be done together.





With all the concerns to address resolving fitment of seat-frame-taillight-frame, this seat may ultimately serve to be the pattern for the next seat.  For now, it's good to have it in hand to use..

I know your trying to copy a older bike, and Im really not sure of the details of that bike, but adding a small triangle filler to that front edge would look good. Doesn't have to fill the space, just a little bit of filler to sweep a little curve down to let the eye fill in the space a little and connect..  Great work!!  I loe tin work, but have little or none in the skill department.
Paul B

Offline cliffrod

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2019, 07:38:14 AM »
I know your trying to copy a older bike, and Im really not sure of the details of that bike, but adding a small triangle filler to that front edge would look good. Doesn't have to fill the space, just a little bit of filler to sweep a little curve down to let the eye fill in the space a little and connect..  Great work!!  I loe tin work, but have little or none in the skill department.

Thanks, Paul.  Input like yours helps.  Working alone doesn't always help with perspective.   The positive comments from everyone are much appreciated as well.

Since those pics, I have deepened the relief/indent across the front.  That is closing the wedge gap between the rear portion of the seat and frame near the blue tape.  I'll probably deepen it some more.  Hopefully more it rests on the frame, the less likely it will be to bend.  This is also kicking up the rear of the seat to benefit license plate mount & tire clearance, which is very cool.  I'm not averse to making a new seat if needed after all the issues are sorted with this one.   We'll see.

A quick pic of the taillight in the trimmed seat. Not mounted yet beyond duct tape and I'm playing with mounting depth.  I want the CEV stamp and part numbers on the chromed trim to be visible & not hidden, but not wanting a surface mount look.  I need to develop the lamp assembly to replace the original one using two little 6v barrel or bullet-ended bulbs.  I'm looking at similar dimensioned off-the-shelf lamps that could be easily modified, bulb orientation and mounting configuration within the seat.





Just because I like the older square-style license plate holder doesn't mean it fits particularly well.   For now, I used a spare CEV assembly (probably from a Sprint) as a pattern.    An oversized blank for the license plate holder was cut from the same scrap aluminum, with additional material welded to accommodate the lamp area.  The center will be trimmed away to allow a deeper lamp with regular 1157 bulb or LED equivalent.











Still have a long way to go with my welding.  I should be practicing on larger coupons, with all known materials,  probably have more tip sizes,..    Still, I'm trying to develop an ability to work on a real part when it matters.  I've done the same with my studio tools.  Doesn't matter if I can make nice samples.  If they don't work and cannot be trusted when it counts,  they're junk and I can be in deep trouble.  In the very near future, I'll have to weld mounts into the seat hump and would prefer not to burn giant holes or have to make a large repair section... Gotta be able to do it right the first time.

Making the license plate holder with a fender mount that is strong enough may require a different configuration than this design, no matter what I add for beading and edge detail.  I know where these types of taillight/plate mounts typically flex and break, especially on singles.   There will be more room & things will change when I cut away the rear frame loop (diagonally, at the blue tape), but I don't plan to cut the frame until the seat-fender-taillight detail is 100% resolved. Losing that factory rear fender mount as a reference point will be significant.

Time is short for this bike fun for the near future. I have a couple of events to do, a stone to finish and trying to get a wheeled dolly fabricated for my Gairu (Pullmax-style reciprocating machine) so that can be moved into my shop asap.  I would like to have the current taillight & related shaping stuff sorted by Nov 1 and will post what I can along the way.
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

Offline cliffrod

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Re: 1967 V700 Corsa-Record
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2019, 05:49:31 PM »
Lately there's been no bike time, but made a little progress this afternoon.  The bike has been here on the carport for a couple of weeks while I needed space for another project in my metal shop.  The tank buck has been irritating me.   Tried to get a good match of shape from various pics & the clay, decided it was good enough and then slammed it out to get it together for display at our late July bike rally.  It still didn't look right but I chalked that up to removing approx 4" from the rear of the tank.  Didn't like the tank-distributor interaction either.

So this afternoon I found the sans-fairing right side view picture I needed and studied it a little more.  Then I laid a straightedge along the bottom of the tank and pulled a string to match the location on the bike.  The problem I had was that I had developed the tank clay & buck as orderly, specifically with the flat bottom of the tank being parallel to the lower frame rail.   When the clay was shorter top to bottom, it didn't look right.  When I fattened it up and made the wooden buck, it looked better but still not right.   Finally realized the original basic utilitarian tank was not made & installed with a bottom parallel to lower frame rail.  This was likely deliberate to help fuel carry towards the rear of the tank & nearer the petcocks

The string clarified that I had the rear of the tank spot on correct and the bottom was flat.  But the front needed approx 1 1/2" inches removed from the bottom.  A little time on the bandsaw and big sander and it's looking much better. 

Side view of revised tank buck with string in place between top of rear shock and exposed fork spring-





I may replace some of the stations on the buck as I fair it, but happier with the overall shape and fit now.    It's also easier to see the engine, which is always very cool...
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 05:53:40 PM by cliffrod »
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1964 Ducati 250
eccetera, eccetera...

http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel on YouTube-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A

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Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
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