What is the oldest bike that is modern day practical?

[Lannis]

  Hmm,I was ripped on for offereing the same opinion here a week ago...Must be my abrasive personality  ...

Naw, just someone having a recreational zing at you, likely just to keep the party going.  Not something to worry about.   You can't get "ripped" on through a keyboard and screen!!

Lannis

[Chuck in Indiana]

I realize more all the time that I am an "outlier" in my vehicle preferences, both two and four wheeled. But, I find the same types (if not brands) of vehicles to be just as practical now as they were in '79 when I got my license. I find "modern" technology and convenience features no more desirable now than they were then.

Wat Charlie sez. I *don't want* a computer to tell me how hard to apply the brakes or throttle. I *really don't want* my motorcycle not recognizing my key(!) because some stupid antenna broke in the middle of BF Utah. Failure prone ABS? Nope.
My 79 G5 has literally been all over the country. It's comfortable, reliable, and totally rebuildable. It handles well (same frame as a LeMans) stops well, (triple disc brakes. It will easily outlive me..and.. the next guy or girl.

[cliffrod]

  Hmm,I was ripped on for offereing the same opinion here a week ago...Must be my abrasive personality  ...

Sorry I missed it.  If I had seen it, I probably would have happily replied the same way.   

I understand I'm (happily) behind the modern curve.  it's nice to know there's others around here in the same place and happy to be there.  Very cool.

[SIR REAL ED]

This whole thread has convinced me that the word "practical" has a completely different meaning to a Wild Guzzi member in his early days on the road, where anything you could afford was by definition "practical", and the Wild Guzzi member today, for whom "practical" has a long list of "must haves" having to do with comfort (or the perception of it), convenience (or the perception of it) and safety (or the perception of it).

Lannis

Yep, "practical" can mean whatever the hell I want it to!!!!!  Cause it's my bike, my money, and my time@

Seems to me, "old," both in terms of bikes and humans is a matter of personal taste and past experience.  No one knew that some bike or feature was "bad" when it was state of the art, or if it was the best you could afford.

One of my high school friends, one of the few people in high school with a car, had a Carman Ghia VW.  No functional windshield defroster or heater.  Not optimum in Rochester, NY in the winter, looking thru a 3" x 6" scraped section of windshield, driving down the road with the window open so the driver could scrape the outside of the windshield with his left hand.  But if the heater doesn't work, does it matter much if the window is rolled down?  But hey, much "cooler" (literally) to ride with him than ride the bus.

Now that we are older, we can pay more for old bikes that really aren't more functional than a modern beginner bike that costs less.  But, hey it's about the emotional buttons the bikes pushes for each of us, than it is about any aspect of functionality that is measurable.

[Rough Edge racing]

Sorry I missed it.  If I had seen it, I probably would have happily replied the same way.   

I understand I'm (happily) behind the modern curve.  it's nice to know there's others around here in the same place and happy to be there.  Very cool.

  it's often difficult to be a minimalist in a group like this....

[SIR REAL ED]

  Hmm,I was ripped on for offereing the same opinion here a week ago...Must be my abrasive personality  ...

Could be a South vs. North thang!

[lazlokovacs]

I'm in total agreement with Charlie as well...

[cliffrod]

  it's often difficult to be a minimalist in a group like this....

If there's more of us than we thought, are we still actual outliers or do we become relevant to the mode and become statistically significant...?  It's been a long time since I did much with statistics. 

Could be a South vs. North thang!

Maybe not- I didn't see any posts like "Well, Bless your heart!" or the Northern equivalent "Is that right?".

[Rough Edge racing]

Could be a South vs. North thang!

  Well..........but I am reading the Stonewall book, and it's very good!  I take pride in less is better...but I am fascinated by modern engines..And have applied some of the tech, if in a limited way, to my old bikes..Old junk can be made to run nicer than it did when new..

[LowRyter]

Wat Charlie sez. I *don't want* a computer to tell me how hard to apply the brakes or throttle. I *really don't want* my motorcycle not recognizing my key(!) because some stupid antenna broke in the middle of BF Utah. Failure prone ABS? Nope.
My 79 G5 has literally been all over the country. It's comfortable, reliable, and totally rebuildable. It handles well (same frame as a LeMans) stops well, (triple disc brakes. It will easily outlive me..and.. the next guy or girl.

Don't ride a Ducati with Brembo anti-lock and traction control. 

Never do that unless you want your world view shattered into a million pieces. 

[Tusayan]

I’ve ridden quite a number of modern Ducatis and much prefer the ones I own, all four of them built without what I see as superfluous nonsense.  I think the peak for Ducati was just after TPG took over, but before they and subsequent owners screwed up the product.  That would be 1997.

[LowRyter]

I’ve ridden quite a number of modern Ducatis and much prefer the ones I own, all four of them built without what I see as superfluous nonsense.  I think the peak for Ducati was just after TPG took over, but before they and subsequent owners screwed up the product.  That would be 1997.

uhm, no.

[Tusayan]

Umm, yes.  I have exactly what I want, based on extensive experience and the resources to buy any motorcycle available.  Thanks but no thanks to excess complexity, nonsensical features, poor esthetics, dealer dependence and design for obsolescence. 

You buy what you want with your cash. I’ll certainly continue buying what I want with mine.

[LowRyter]

Good points Tus.  But my comments were clearly on the riding experience.  And I was clear about that.  You might not like the trade-offs but there's no comparison with riding one.  Specifically the braking and handling and rideability.  No comparison with gen 2 SS Duc vs a new one.

[Testarossa]

I agree enthusiastically about brakes. On a pavement bike the front brake has to work, which means a disc or a properly set-up big double-leading-shoe drum.  My TR6R is iffy on long steep downhills -- I'd never experienced serious brake fade until I heated up this drum. So I don't consider it practical going over Colorado passes.

How about what's the newest bike that's practical today?  I'm one of the Luddites who wants to do all the maintenance myself, which lets out desmo and inverted-bucket valves (tho my F650 has the latter) and nearly all black-box electronics (electronic ignition excepted). Who was the guy who rode his KTM from Europe to SE Asia only to abandon the bike when the "disabler" quit recognizing his key, and the factory couldn't or wouldn't help? In 55 years of riding I've never had a problem I couldn't fix by myself at roadside, and I'm too old to start now.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Who was the guy who rode his KTM from Europe to SE Asia only to abandon the bike when the "disabler" quit recognizing his key,

My point exactly. I don't want that stuff. <chewing through corncob pipe.> Sure, Honda with it's gazillions of yen in reliability testing and quality control money can do it, but small manufacturers who buy components, mix and match, and expect them to work?
The Mighty Scura is my newest bike. Yeah, it has a computer, but it is simple and reliable.

[Rough Edge racing]

Good points Tus.  But my comments were clearly on the riding experience.  And I was clear about that.  You might not like the trade-offs but there's no comparison with riding one.  Specifically the braking and handling and rideability.  No comparison with gen 2 SS Duc vs a new one.

 Perhaps..How many guys on this site can ride a 90's 900 Ducati to it's full potential on a public road?

[SIR REAL ED]

Maybe not- I didn't see any posts like "Well, Bless your heart!" or the Northern equivalent "Is that right?".

As a former NY Stater who lives in VA, I think the proper translation of "Well, bless your heart!" is "Screw you!"

I enjoy telling my Southern friends, back in NY we have a saying for these situations, the polite Southern translation of which is "Screw em if they can't take joke!"

[SIR REAL ED]

  Well..........but I am reading the Stonewall book, and it's very good!  I take pride in less is better...but I am fascinated by modern engines..And have applied some of the tech, if in a limited way, to my old bikes..Old junk can be made to run nicer than it did when new..

Hey Buddy, I know where you live, but what a lot of Southerners don't realize that plenty of rednecks live above the Mason-Dixon Line.

I know cause I got my redneck membership card!

[Tusayan]

I was riding my 90’s 900SS to something near it’s full potential on a public road yesterday    I enjoy it more than I’ve enjoyed riding new Ducatis etc on the same roads.  The dumbed down, numb feeling you get with traction control etc doesn’t do it for me, the last newer one I rode (a 1299 Panigale S) had about double the power that is useful, and in order to accommodate that power when it’s used in the track, the handling on the street is compromised and awkward, particularly on tighter roads.

A good friend is one of the highest volume Italian bike dealers in the US and the way he explains it is simply to say “Ducati has lost their way, no longer understand who they are, but the current customers buy a lot of bikes from me”   Maybe not exactly the same as my reaction but similar.

[SIR REAL ED]

My point exactly. I don't want that stuff. <chewing through corncob pipe.> Sure, Honda with it's gazillions of yen in reliability testing and quality control money can do it, but small manufacturers who buy components, mix and match, and expect them to work?
The Mighty Scura is my newest bike. Yeah, it has a computer, but it is simple and reliable.

I recall a KTM mechanic who said "Anyone who wants to take the modern adventure bikes anywhere remote should carry two things.  A cell phone and a good pair of hiking boots!"

[Tusayan]

I don't want that stuff. <chewing through corncob pipe.> Sure, Honda with it's gazillions of yen in reliability testing and quality control money can do it, but small manufacturers who buy components, mix and match, and expect them to work?

The Mighty Scura is my newest bike. Yeah, it has a computer, but it is simple and reliable.

Exactly my view.  My newest bike (of nine) is a 2002, same era and for the same reasons. 

Fabio Taglioni of Ducati once said  “the Japanese build easy cars, I build difficult bicycles” (this was around 1986) and while I much respect for example Honda’s capability in making complexity reliable with money and persistence, the European manufacturers in my experience don’t have that capability... and anyway I prefer to own and ride what Taglioni started at Ducati, and what Todero and Wittner built at Guzzi.  These bikes are relatively simple to own, have good brakes, handling and power, and are also a great deal better looking (satisfying the esthetic imperative, as a friend puts it  )

Aprilia was the first in the 21st century to attempt to build Japanese style bikes in Italy.  I disliked like them in 2000, don’t like them now.  KTMs can be fun to ride and are probably more Italian in philosophy than some Italian bikes today, but they are not well designed for reliability and serviceability and they are ugly as sin.  BMW in 2020 builds ridiculous bikes in direct opposition to its practical tradition and manipulates its customers in a distasteful way.  And so I keep my 90s Italian bikes in top condition and love them more as time goes on    In addition to giving me a lot of pleasure, they are the newest bikes that are practical for me today.

[Rough Edge racing]

As a former NY Stater who lives in VA, I think the proper translation of "Well, bless your heart!" is "Screw you!"

I enjoy telling my Southern friends, back in NY we have a saying for these situations, the polite Southern translation of which is "Screw em if they can't take joke!"

There are as many hillbillys here as anywhere...On Saturday night, the local Amercian Legion is the place to be....I'm a member but rarely go there beacuse I rarely consume alcohol..I don't eat "Garbage Plates" either... ....i want to move south but my wife has family here....While in the Army I got along with Southerners best...

[rocker59]

Umm, yes.  I have exactly what I want, based on extensive experience and the resources to buy any motorcycle available.  Thanks but no thanks to excess complexity, nonsensical features, poor esthetics, dealer dependence and design for obsolescence. 

You buy what you want with your cash. I’ll certainly continue buying what I want with mine.

1998 900SS FE.  Mighty fine motorcycle.  Oh, how I wanted one!

[LowRyter]

Perhaps..How many guys on this site can ride a 90's 900 Ducati to it's full potential on a public road?

You're missing the point and have it backwards.  My Duc SS 939 allows ME to explore more of MY potential on a public road, not the bike's.  And if you haven't ridden one, you'll never know.  Otherwise everyone would ride mopeds or EletraGildes but for some reason we all have a preference for different bikes because of the riding experiences. 

[LowRyter]

Funny thing about this thread.  I mentioned the 1962 Superhawk as the oldest viable bike.  I think it was by far the oldest bike mentioned here.

And when we talk about modern bikes, I am alone discussing the virtues with the latest tech bikes (which is fantastic).  So many are stuck in the 70s and 80s.

[Rough Edge racing]

You're missing the point and have it backwards.  My Duc SS 939 allows ME to explore more of MY potential on a public road, not the bike's.  And if you haven't ridden one, you'll never know.  Otherwise everyone would ride mopeds or EletraGildes but for some reason we all have a preference for different bikes because of the riding experiences.

Perhaps.... I assume you mean the new Ducati is a far more precision than a 90's Ducati....So, is it more challanging to ride a perfect machine or one that with a few flaws compared to the new one? And back to my original question, could you ride a 90's Ducati with a good suspension to it's limit on the street?

[Tusayan]

So many are stuck in the 70s and 80s.

As many have said here, the dawn of truly practical motorcycle was roughly 1970.   For my purposes, owning a collection of practical bikes versus just one (which changes your needs and reduces time availability for each), the period of real practicality for different manufacturers is as follows.  I'd argue that it extended a lot longer than 1989.

Honda and the Japanese: 1969 to date, although less so now than in say 2002.
BMW: 1973 to roughly 1995, some might say later, say 2000 or so.
Guzzi: 1971 to 2005 for big block bikes, some might say a lot later for small block bikes.
Ducati: roughly 1970 to 2002.
Buell: 2003-2009.

These are the model years from which I select bikes now.  I mention Buell because the XB12s were the last new bikes that seemed to me designed for my interests. I'm trying to talk myself into a V85 TT as per the above note on Guzzi small blocks, but without result so far.  Generally anything newer is no more fun and is too annoying for me to own and maintain long term along with the others - I don't use dealer service. Anything older doesn't have the performance I want.

So generally my time slot of interest is mid-70s to very early 2000s.

[Lannis]

As many have said here, the dawn of truly practical motorcycle was roughly 1970.   

But that's just among us and our age group, with our Ameri-centric sense of history.

Almost ever motorcycle produced since about World War I in this country has been a recreational vehicle, a toy, or at most a backup.  At least that's how they were marketed, and how the vast majority used them.

In England, until the introduction of the Austin Mini, motorcycles were the working class mode of transportation for 50 years.   A BSA or Ariel or Panther single, with a single or double sidecar, was the standard family transport, taking Dad to work, and taking the family to the seaside on holiday.

One might say they weren't "practical" by some standard, but people put big mileages on them .... and they could run big mileage because the speed limit in towns was 30 MPH, and outside of town it was 50 MPH until the advent of the limited-access motorway.

I've got a couple of those bikes, and they were serious practical business.   In Southern California ... ?   No, but SoCal isn't the whole world, or even a significant bit of it ....

If we're limited to talking about "Only by today's standards, preferences, and desires" then ....

Lannis 

[Tusayan]

But that's just among us and our age group, with our Ameri-centric sense of history.

Well, for what its worth my father started with an ex-WD 16H Norton and progressed through BSA Bantams and eventually a Panther Sloper, trying every end of the market that he could afford to find something that worked.  All of them were impractical for his very non-Ameri-centric use.  He hated relying on them, every day, in real time (not history) and he'll equally tell you that today in real time, with all the nostalgia that 60 years of time has failed to generate!

I caught him the other day eyeing my carb'd SV650 with interest, its smaller and lighter than the others, but unfortunately its no longer possible for me to toss him the keys and see his reaction to a test ride.  I think he'd like it if he could try it.