Removing the motor

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

I’ve got all fasteners loose except the big 19mm bolt that runs thru the front lower part of the block. I’m thinking it’s just a really long bolt with a 19mm nut on one end and you tighten to spec to make the motor a stressed member of the frame. In other words I can gorilla the sumofagun without worrying about breaking a stud off. If I’m wrong please correct me!

Also how in blazes do you get this bloody big lump of a motor out of the frame?!

2000 Quota ES.

Cheers, Robert

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

Another question. One of the exhaust studs broke off when I was removing the headers. Do the studs screw out so I can use a stud extractor or will I need to run it by the machine shop?

[Perazzimx14]

The studs thread in.

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

The studs thread in.

Awesome! Thanks. And I got the large bolt loose, WE HAVE SEPARATION!

Now how to get the thing clear of the frame! Where’s a shrink ray when you need one?!

[malik]

It's likely to be a similar arrangement to the smallblock I've recently done. There should be a lift supporting the weight of the engine, and the idea is to loosen everything off, lift the frame off the engine & wheel it away, leaving the engine behind. Wheel it outside & degrease it.

My front bolt was reluctant to move. Undo the nut, try turning the bolt head back and forth to loosen it a bit. I used a drift (and another pair of hands on the other side - essential accessory here). I thought it was badly corroded, but turned out to be mostly decomposed lubricant turning into an orange and white coating - didn't help it slide any. Jiggling the lift to vary the weight stress can perhaps help.







The exhaust studs screw out (theoretically anyway). Some of my exhaust nuts were seized on the stud, so they screwed out of the head anyway. Check your parts book & order new studs from your friendly guzzi dealer.

Oh, I see you've done it. Good job.

[pehayes]

Also how in blazes do you get this bloody big lump of a motor out of the frame?!

Well, actually  you don't.  What  you do is support the motor and then lift the frame up and away so that all you have left is motor.  You might look through some of the pictures regarding "crabbing the frame".  The crabbing process leaves the front bolt in but loose as a pivot and the frame gets tilted forward.

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzitech.dk/gb_en_complex-technical_crab-frame.htm

http://www.guzziriders.org/quota-engine-removal_topic3387.html

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[usedtobefast]

Are you leaving the transmission in place and moving the motor off the front?

Have you seen the picture on advrider?  Put the front wheel in a track stand, leave rear wheel on ground, and remove frame rails and pull the motor out the front.

I put a scissor jack under the sump and hand tightened it up to relieve some pressure.  Then all the frame bolts easily came out.  And same with the motor<->transmission bolts ... with most pressure relieved by the scissor jack, just undid all those 13mm bolts then rolled the motor forward (my scissor jack is in a tray on 4 wheels).

Also, I left all the fuel injection stuff as-is, just took out the 3 bolts on each side that attaches the intake tubes to the head.

Let me know if this does not make sense.   

[usedtobefast]

like this:

[pehayes]

Have you removed the broken stud as yet?  If not, start by using a "left-handed drill bit".  Yes, such exists at good machine suppliers.  The left handed drill will likely bite into the broken stud and just roll it out.  Be VERY careful with any kind of extractor.  Break one of those and  you're really screwed.

Here's a set with left-hand drills and matching extractors.  You can also buy any size left hand bit individually.

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/45653318?rItem=45653318

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

Wow!!! Thanks everyone! I really appreciate it. Yes after studying on it I’m planning on strapping the gearbox so it doesn’t have extra stress, removing the cradle frame rails on both sides, and rolling the motor forward on my motorcycle jack. I will be posting updates and pics for part orders tomorrow hopefully.

Thanks again, Robert

[Don G]

For broken stud removal I have found it is best to weld a thick washer to the stud and let it cool before working it to and fro, if you dont have the skill, take it to someone who does.  DonG

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

I got the left handed drill bits and extractors today, and was about to get the motor removal finished when work called. Seems my shift partner ran into something, so he is currently suspended possibly worse. So they asked me to come in early. Since I would like to get off of night shift I said sure no problem. So the Quota is on hold till my next day off. Which since I am so far hale and hearty is likely to be a while. The DOT has suspended a lot of regulations for gas haulers while the current situation is ongoing. Oh well, I’ll make bank while I can!

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

Motor is out! Clutch plates were soaked in oil. The ones who said the check valve was still in crankcase vent tube were correct. Anyone have suggestions for removing it? It looks “welded” in place by rust. Maybe drilling it out? Or just buy a new vent tube?

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

Okay, what I’m gonna call the rear main seal looks good to me. However, what about the trans input seal? Would y’all recommend replacing it or leaving it.

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

Finally, I think I’ll replace the braided oil supply hose and the Tach Hall effect sensor. As far as clutch rod seals, do I need to take the rear of the transmission apart to access them?

Thanks in advance for reviewing and commenting. Once I have this baby all back together I’ll have to plan a group ride to celebrate!

[usedtobefast]

Motor is out! Clutch plates were soaked in oil. The ones who said the check valve was still in crankcase vent tube were correct. Anyone have suggestions for removing it? It looks “welded” in place by rust. Maybe drilling it out? Or just buy a new vent tube?

When I looked into this, neither that tube nor the checkvalve was available for the Quota (to order as new).  So maybe some MG dealer has one in their parts supply?  Or eBay?  Also, the part looks very similar to ones used in other models.  The 1997-2000 EV shares many parts with the Quota for example.  Mine was pretty nice looking and the check ball moved freely so I just used it as-is.

Also, I believe some models have a check valve in the hose ... so maybe you could get your pipe cleared out and install a checkvalve in-line in the hose?  Just guessing here. 

[usedtobefast]

For the clutch plates, have you measured them?  I had trouble finding the spec and wear limit, but I believe new stock ones are 8 mm thick. 

Mine had oil on them and I put in new clutch plates ... and the new clutch action was maybe 5%-10% better than old!    So I should have just cleaned mine up and re-used them. 

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

When I looked into this, neither that tube nor the checkvalve was available for the Quota (to order as new).  So maybe some MG dealer has one in their parts supply?  Or eBay?  Also, the part looks very similar to ones used in other models.  The 1997-2000 EV shares many parts with the Quota for example.  Mine was pretty nice looking and the check ball moved freely so I just used it as-is.

And no, I haven’t measured them. I’ll be sure to do that.

Also, I believe some models have a check valve in the hose ... so maybe you could get your pipe cleared out and install a checkvalve in-line in the hose?  Just guessing here.

I got a check valve from MG cycles. It said Quota 1000 along with a whole lot of other big blocks. I figured it would work. I’ve found a new tube for it on eBay , in Germany. Lol. Still not expensive, 55 bucks including 32 shipping.

[usedtobefast]

As far as clutch rod seals, do I need to take the rear of the transmission apart to access them?

No need to pull the transmission.  With it in place, swing arm in place, it is possible.

Get everything clean on the back side of transmission.  Clutch cable off.  Pull the cotter pin and holder pin from the clutch arm at the back.  Make sure it is all clean and WD-40'ed up    ... I was laying on my back on a wood & padded creeper listening to music, and just wiggle and work that clutch arm gently and it will come off.  No need to force it or hit it with anything.  Once you get the right angle and twist it comes off easy, no forcing needed.

Then you can pull out the stuff from the back. 

[usedtobefast]

I got a check valve from MG cycles. It said Quota 1000 along with a whole lot of other big blocks. I figured it would work. I’ve found a new tube for it on eBay , in Germany. Lol. Still not expensive, 55 bucks including 32 shipping.

Not expensive!  I'd do a lot of drilling and cleaning for $87!   

So does the check value you bought fit into the hose?  Or the tube/pipe? 

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

Not expensive!  I'd do a lot of drilling and cleaning for $87!   

So does the check value you bought fit into the hose?  Or the tube/pipe?

Awesome about the clutch seals. Thanks! Also the check valve does not fit in the hose. It fits in the tube I believe. And sorry I didn’t explain properly, the part is like 23$ plus 32 shipping for a total of 55. I’d just have to wait till the middle of April for it to show up! Lol

[malik]

Lucky you. On the smallblocks, the clutch pushrod seal lives in a recess in the inside end of the clutch shaft, so the clutch cover has to be removed to get to it. Last time I did this, I found metal flakes, so took the transmission cover off too, more flakes, 5th gear was losing its hardening. Also got to clean out the gelatinous oil deposits clumping in the out of the way places inside the gearbox. I didn't take the gear castle apart, or remove it from the the gearbox cover.

The other seals? I've been advised by other guzzisti who do a lot of this, that while you're there, it's a good idea to replace any seal you can see - you don't want to have to take everything apart again prematurely.

[moto-uno]

  As much as I'm a fan of replacing seals when this deep in , I have a caveat concerning the rear crank seal , it's size makes it less
easy to install than some would lead you to think . I eventually made a tool to ease the install and also prevent damaging or bending
the seal .  Peter

[Wayne Orwig]

Motor is out! Clutch plates were soaked in oil.

Then it is unlikely to be from the rear main seal, or that area.
Most likely transmission fluid.
Maybe the transmission front seal, or the pushrod seals. The pushrod seals are easy to get at from the outside of the rear of the transmission.

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

The check valve is out!!! I used a suggestion from Guzziology about “the pause that refreshes” and soaked the tube in Coca-Cola. After and overnight it released with persuasion from vice grips and a tap from a moderate sized hammer! Below is the pic of the rusted check valve that was blocking the breather tube.



 

[usedtobefast]

Wonder how it got so rusty.  Isn't that typically an oily location? 

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

Wonder how it got so rusty.  Isn't that typically an oily location?

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_quota_rust_in_the_oil.html

I’m going to be incorporating a catch can into my breather system to prevent this. Also the guy I bought it off of from Ebay didn’t ride it but about 100 miles. It sat a lot! Then it sat some more after I got it home because it turned cold and rainy. After she’s back together I’m not going to let her sit!

[Kiwi_Roy]

https://ibb.co/89Xf0sm
You may decide to keep that sensor when you find out how expensive they are, for sure keep it as a spare.
It's a typical oil leak point but don't be tempted to put extra gaskets on it, the tip needs to be 0.6 - 1.2mm from the phonic wheel
I usually check the gap by putting a blob of JBQuick on the tip then bolt it in place until the epoxy sets then measure it.
I don't know if the oil leaks around the gasket, I suspect it may actually leak in around the tip and pass right through the sensor to leak out where the cable emerges from the epoxy.
Its not a Hall Effect, its a Reluctance sensor, a coil of wire wound around a small magnet and absolutely critical for the bike to run as it sets the timing for the ECU
This document is a bit old but the idea is the same https://dpguzzi.com/efiman.pdf  page 13

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

Great info! Thanks Roy. Would you recommend me making sure mounting surface is clean and using a small bead of rtv gasket to seal it?

[malik]

https://ibb.co/89Xf0sm
You may decide to keep that sensor when you find out how expensive they are, for sure keep it as a spare.
It's a typical oil leak point but don't be tempted to put extra gaskets on it, the tip needs to be 0.6 - 1.2mm from the phonic wheel
I usually check the gap by putting a blob of JBQuick on the tip then bolt it in place until the epoxy sets then measure it.
I don't know if the oil leaks around the gasket, I suspect it may actually leak in around the tip and pass right through the sensor to leak out where the cable emerges from the epoxy.
Its not a Hall Effect, its a Reluctance sensor, a coil of wire wound around a small magnet and absolutely critical for the bike to run as it sets the timing for the ECU
This document is a bit old but the idea is the same https://dpguzzi.com/efiman.pdf  page 13

For that rev sensor, Pete Roper recommended Threebond 1211 - a smear around the o-ring. That worked for me.