Hose clamp on oil filter?

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

So when I dropped the oil pan on my Quota the previous person who changed the filter put a hose clamp around the oil filter to prevent it from turning counter-clockwise. Judging by how tight they had the oil filter and several other things I’ve found I’m questioning whether it’s necessary or not. My instinct is that it’s superfluous. Just want to make sure I’m thinking correctly.

Thanks, Robert

[Guzzistajohn]

Superfluous or redundant?  Could go either way.

[Dave Swanson]

The old belt and red suspenders insurance policy that probably goes back to 1975 when the first T3 got toasted due to a filter backing off.

It's bad JuJu to not put it back in if found.   

[LesP]

I read about the oil filters loosening or some such thing and a hose clamp was recommended to stop it doing so by putting the head of it up against the pressure relief body.

I ended up with two oil filter pans, the first thing noted on both was the threaded spigot that holds the oil filter in place was well down in the cavity it resides in, that in turn mean't the oil filter all but spun on a turn or so until the rubber seal touched down on the outer pad ring of the sump.
No wonder there is a risk they can unwind in use and the clamp is recommended.

What I did was face the surfaces for the pressure relief, oil filter threaded inner spigot and plastic filter screen, after that I lowered the outer ring for the filter until it actually screwed on (About 7 mm with seal compression)





I had tried the new screen with the stock M6 bolt and it crushed it so it was milled lower so a upside down top hat could be used with a custom M6 stud, top washer and Nyloc.



Of course being a non oil filter engine it needed custom M8 to M6 step studs which makes gasket fitment easy as a bonus.



The cheap seal on the HMB pressure relief was binned and a new one made with a thread to match to maximise the ID.



After all that I still used a new hose clamp on the filter...  I can't see it falling off.
If the pans I had are the normal a hose clamp is probably a good idea.

[Loop Tonti EV]

I've been doing this for years. I always leave a slight gap between the clamp head and the relieve valve. That way when I service it the next time I can see if it moved.  No Guzzi with an in sump filter leaves my garage without it. I really don't understand why people make fun of this safety device that costs about $1.95. Oh wait, these are Guzzi geezers we're talking about.

[s1120]

I guess the real thing is having it isnt going to hurt anything.  Mine didnt have one when I took it apart, and when I did the first oil change after i got it I didnt use one..  Im due for one soon, and Ill pick up a clamp since Ive read a lot about it since then. Piece of mind I guess if nothing else.

[Zoom Zoom]

There is someone on this board whose Quota had the filter come loose with catastrophic results. No, he did not install it improperly. I know of several others, including myself who discovered a loose filter and I can tell you that I didn't forget to tighten it when I put it on. And no, there is no maybe I didn't tighten it properly when I put it on!

So you know what, do whatever you want. If you're willing to quibble over $1.29 for a hose clamp, knock yourself out. Cheapest insurance out there.

John Henry

[larrys]

I have always put a clamp on it. Going back close to forty years. I think I read about it in the MGNOC news. Back when you got a paper publication in the mail. Cheap insurance.
Be well,
Larry

[Turin]

I also clamp. Cheap insurance.

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

The old belt and red suspenders insurance policy that probably goes back to 1975 when the first T3 got toasted due to a filter backing off.

It's bad JuJu to not put it back in if found.   

Best response of everyone! Thanks Dave, I’ll throw it back on the new filter.

[Stevex]

Fitted a clamp after reading about loose filters and the clamp fix in this forum.
Even if only one comes loose ever again, it won't be mine.

[Wayne Orwig]

If it makes you feel good, do it.

[LowRyter]

I did have one back off on my V11 Sport.  Lucky I was a couple miles home leaving a gas station and a fellow behind me was driving a pickup and pulling a trailer- true story.  He was almost eager to load up my bike.  Refused $20 offered. 

One thing for sure, if the oil pressure light comes on.  Stop.  Stop right away. 

I replaced the Uni filter with a Bosch 3330.   I doubt it was defective filter because I hate overtightened filters, so I probably just didn't tighten it enough.  I had been using a hose clamp before that last change and decided I didn't need it.  It was the first time that it ever happened to me.   

So far the Bosch is staying in place with no hose clamp.   

[earemike]

Think of it as tradition, the only way it can cause a problem is if you don’t pay respect by refitting this item held in high esteem.

[wirespokes]

Wayne - are you saying you don't use the hose clamp? That it's really not necessary?

LesP - Seems to me a new fitting with longer reach would be the answer. Then three or four turns and tighten down like we do for the car. I've never had an automotive filter come loose.

[MGrego]

If you use a hose clamp on an oil filter on a V11, you are prevented from using the round filter access Guzzi provided.  To loosen the clamp and change the filter, you must drop the sump.  My first oil change on my V11 LeMans I didn't know people placed clamps on the filter and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't budge.  Dropped the sump and saw what was going on.....

[Joliet Jim]

Been using a hose clamp for years on the stone.

[80CX100]

     I've used hose clamps just out of principle, but after finding a filter only finger tight on a used bike I picked up, I now do it with much more conviction that I'm doing the right thing for my bike.

      I'm not worried so much that the filter will loosen to the point of falling off, but any possible loss of oil pressure when you need it most, is not a good thing, imho.

      fwiw ymmv

      Kelly

[usedtobefast]

I've been doing this for years. I always leave a slight gap between the clamp head and the relieve valve. That way when I service it the next time I can see if it moved.  No Guzzi with an in sump filter leaves my garage without it. I really don't understand why people make fun of this safety device that costs about $1.95. Oh wait, these are Guzzi geezers we're talking about.

I really like this idea!  Safety and then ability to see if it really matter or not later. 

[Mike Harper]

The first time I heard of a hose clamp being used on an oil filter was by DR John Wittner on his factory race bikes.
Good safety device even if it is never needed

[Two Checks]

What keeps the clamp from coming loose....?

[wirespokes]

What keeps the clamp from coming loose....?

    Friction

[Rough Edge racing]

 The oil filter inside the engine sump is a poor piece of engineering no matter how you look at it...

[SmithSwede]

$1.23 does seem a bit high for a hose clamp.  Why use a brand new one?

I’ve found if you ask nicely and tell them you ride a Guzzi, most junk yards will let you pull an old hose clamp for free.   

[RinkRat II]

What keeps the clamp from coming loose....?

      Safety Wire

    Paul B

[Steve Scott]

Sometimes I do... sometimes I don't. The only thing that's ever come loose in my sump was the relief valve.

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

What keeps the clamp from coming loose....?

Well, this was kinda my thought. I suppose gravity would cause it to just slide to the base, but still the thought of the clamp coming loose inside the sump isn’t a pleasant thought to me. I will be flinging the bike around up in the mountains.

But having read about the short threads on the fitting as noticed by LesP gives me enough pause to fit it back on there. I may take it by the machine shop if I have enough time. There’s a great one here in Carrollton.

I’ve just never had a filter work itself loose on any vehicle I’ve owned. Not even a drop. And I never tighten down more than recommend. Hence why I was wondering.

Great insight guys, thanks!

[LesP]

Wayne - are you saying you don't use the hose clamp? That it's really not necessary?

LesP - Seems to me a new fitting with longer reach would be the answer. Then three or four turns and tighten down like we do for the car. I've never had an automotive filter come loose.

Wirespokes, thank you, finally someone who gets it, if the oil filter actually screws on it will not come loose.

In my case it might have gone on a turn and a half as I got both sumps/pans, on a 2 mm pitch thread (iirc) that is only 3 mm thread engagement.
The threaded spigot is simply to short unless there was once an oil filter as standard fitment that had a lowered threaded section to engage the deeper to the spigot.

I had considered machining a longer spigot but the sealing pad surfaces needed facing anyway so just removed more (maybe 4 mm)

The filter goes on at least 3 turns like any other automotive filter now after modification.

#

Here is the UNI filter as recieved from MG Cycle.
The inner threaded porting is recessed compared to the outer sealing ring, that means to engage the threads of the sup spigot, the thread would need to be some 12 mm (1/2") above the outer sealing ring.
Either I got sent the wrong oil filter from multiple venders or the stock fixing arrangement from the factory was floored.

There is no way I am the only person (Who has never ridden a Moto Guzzi ) to have seen or come across this.
What part of the filter does not screw on enough and risks loosening is being missed ?

[LesP]

Well, this was kinda my thought. I suppose gravity would cause it to just slide to the base, but still the thought of the clamp coming loose inside the sump isn’t a pleasant thought to me. I will be flinging the bike around up in the mountains.

But having read about the short threads on the fitting as noticed by LesP gives me enough pause to fit it back on there. I may take it by the machine shop if I have enough time. There’s a great one here in Carrollton.

I’ve just never had a filter work itself loose on any vehicle I’ve owned. Not even a drop. And I never tighten down more than recommend. Hence why I was wondering.

Great insight guys, thanks!

I would be very curious to from the point the oil filter catches on the spigot thread does it take to seat in full turns.

I am not suggesting everyone should go out and machine the sump or get a longer spigot machined but this being my first Moto Guzzi and stripping it down to the last nut and bolt (let alone cutting the breather box open) I have no preconceived notions........ I work on it, I see things ??? this short thread engagement did not seem right and it (in what I found with a new UNI filter) pretty much explained why people were fitting a hose clamp.

Was the oil filter for these bikes different back in the 1970's when the oil filter pan was added to the range ?

(The difference with the bike I have is being a 1973 El Dorado it had no oil filter as standard but the un-drilled galleries were in the engine case/block casting so Moto Guzzi was obviously thinking about it before adding it)
I did the usual machining to those passages, added a oil filter front bearing etc etc but probably looked at things closer based on that modification.

[TOMB]

 no clamp on my 76 convert ,I have changed over to a Harper's Outsider with the filter on the outside, so I can actually watch it  has it leaked , no, and I do not use a clamp, I do use a black felt magic marker so i have an index line   so I can check for a movement.
TOMB