Looking for "fool proof" bread recipe. NGC

[bigbikerrick]

Hello Folks, with the downtime lately,and my wife having extra days off from work during the week, we spent the day yesterday trying to bake bread together and it didnt turn out too good.  Dense, like a rock,( the bread,that is)and tastes like saltine crackers ,is the best way to describe it.
  I tried a simple white bread recipe I found on you tube, although most recipes are pretty similar. I am looking for something simple, easy, and foolproof, that I can use to make a decent loaf ,and also an occasional pizza, for our small family. I really like the Mexican style "torta" ( sandwich) bread, or "teleras" as they are called. They have just a slight hint of sweetness,and a light crust, with a soft moist center.
   I know many here are great cooks and bakers. Does anyone have an easy  bread recipe they care to share?
Thanks in advance,
Rick.

[moto-uno]

  Always proof your yeast before doing anything , if it doesn't froth up with the water , and or water and sugar suggested , stop .
Also try not to start with recipes that call for instant yeast . You should know in 10 to 15 minutes if it's good to go . Been making
breads and pizzas for over 45 years and my first few were as you described , lack of patience in my youth :) .   Peter

[bigbikerrick]

I kinda suspected  something with the yeast. I tried proofing it, used a little package ,and some bubbles did form. I could not smell that nice "yeasty" smell you usually get when making home made bread though, which I thought was weird. I now have a larger bottle of fresh yeast, for the next attempt.
Rick.

[Rich A]

Or make something that doesn't use yeast, e.g., Irish soda bread or buttermilk cornbread.

Rich

[cliffrod]

Rick, I know you posted on my Bread Thread so won't be redundant.  That recipe from Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes a Day has proven to be the most foolproof recipe I've found for basic dough and pizza crust.   I have found people that didn't succeed with it, but usually because they didn't follow directions or modified it.    If you tried it and were unhappy, I'm glad to try to help on here or directly off forum.

From what you describe-

Too much salt will kill yeast.  If regular salt is substituted for coarse salt in the same volumetric measure. It will wreck the recipe.  Dead yeast, no leaven, tastes like yuck.   Some recipes call for less yeast with added sugar to enhance the speed of the ferment.  Those recipes are even more susceptible to toxic salt levels.   

Substituting Self Rising flour (accidentally or not) for AP or Bread flour can also make salty bread, sometimes salty enough to defeat the yeast.

One reason I use the artisan bread in five minutes recipe is the flexibility in the ferment schedule (first rise) and proofing (second rise). Other recipes with less (lower ratio) of yeast have less capacity to leaven.  If allowed to spend too long, especially during the ferment, the yeast can exhaust all leavening capacity and dough will not rise during proof.

People do things differently.  I haven't proofed dehydrated yeast for years unless I know it's long out of date.  I also avoid regular dried yeast and use instant yeast almost exclusively now.  It is recommended to be mixed into the recipe without proofing.  It is far more consistent to use and seems more durable, even when months out of date, than regular dried yeast. 

Edit- to clarify..  When using regular dried yeast, you should rehydrate it to benefit even distribution within the recipe mix.  This is considered to be a slurry.  Unless you create a froth mixing it, there won't be bubbles.  When you add sugar and/or flour to the water & yeast slurry, the yeast has something to metabolize for "proofing" the yeast.  It should bubble.

Just remember that those bubbles are wasted leavening gases that will never make your bread rise, so work quickly or adjust your amounts accordingly.,

[malik]

In the last couple of weeks, Cliffrod has been posting here on bread - well worth a read (& a download, save, edit & print). Likely old yeast - I test mine regularly, it does go inert if you leave it too long. Dissolve a little sugar, flour, and yeast in some lukewarm water, leave for some 10 minutes to check if it's still active. (My current stuff is dead as a doornail & recently there's been a run on bread making ingredients). Otherwise, I've always liked The Tassajara Bread Book (E. E. Brown, Shambhala Press 1970 - now there's a blast from the past - showing my age?).

Edit: Cliffrod to the rescue.

[AJ Huff]

I buy Saf yeast and keep it in the fridge as my chef taught me. It lasts for years that way. I haven't had any problems with dead yeast.

-AJ

[AJ Huff]

Also, regarding salt. Salt is important not just for flavor in bread but also the texture. It modifies the yeast activity. Too much however kills the yeast. I would suggest using kosher not table salt.

-AJ

[Chuck in Indiana]

I also avoid regular dried yeast and use instant yeast almost exclusively now.  It is recommended to be mixed into the recipe without proofing.

You can't find yeast around here. You'd think it was toilet paper, for heaven'sake.  One of Dorcia's master gardener friends gave her several tablespoons of "instant" yeast. I gave it the roll eye, but gave it a go. Works great. 

[Perazzimx14]

Also, regarding salt. Salt is important not just for flavor in bread but also the texture. It modifies the yeast activity. Too much however kills the yeast. I would suggest using kosher not table salt.

-AJ

Iodine in table and sea salt can also create issues in curing meats. We transissioned to kosher or canning salt several years ago.

[Tom]

My first thoughts were dead yeast.  Make pasta if no yeast or tortillas.

[cliffrod]

You can't find yeast around here. You'd think it was toilet paper, for heaven'sake.  One of Dorcia's master gardener friends gave her several tablespoons of "instant" yeast. I gave it the roll eye, but gave it a go. Works great. 

I haven't been to the store for nearly two weeks.  My wife says everything is gone around here, too.  Hence the failed biscuit AP/SR flour mixup a few days ago....  So I Just looked the yeast up on line.  Holy mackerel- $24+ per lb PLUS shipping!   We usually bum a trip into Costco or Sam's with someone once a year to buy 2 lbs of instant yeast for $4/lb.  we're still ok for a while.

I've grown wild sourdough starters before.  Great taste and ok leavening but not fast to do.  Right now, advocating leaving a wet bucket of flour out in the open to capture free floating spores of yeast et al to breed and multiply probably isn't going to hit the right target...

Real pita bread is always fun- flour, water and salt.  Press thin, bake on a hot flat griddle until they puff up completely like a balloon (longer than a tortilla), then cover to help them stay a little moist and pliable. Cut in half and enjoy.

[moto-uno]

  Pleased about your remarks on Instant yeast , we recently got some and from one failed attempt years ago I've stayed away .
  The old once bitten twice shy thing . Old habits die hard , and actually seeing the yeast froth pretty much guarantees success
  for me . But for now I'm having a gas with this sourdough thing ,  . Peter

[Perazzimx14]

I haven't been to the store for nearly two weeks.  My wife says everything is gone around here, too.  Hence the failed biscuit AP/SR flour mixup a few days ago....  So I Just looked the yeast up on line.  Holy mackerel- $24+ per lb PLUS shipping!   We usually bum a trip into Costco or Sam's with someone once a year to buy 2 lbs of instant yeast for $4/lb.  we're still ok for a while.

I've grown wild sourdough starters before.  Great taste and ok leavening but not fast to do.  Right now, advocating leaving a wet bucket of flour out in the open to capture free floating spores of yeast et al to breed and multiply probably isn't going to hit the right target...

Real pita bread is always fun- flour, water and salt.  Press thin, bake on a hot flat griddle until they puff up completely like a balloon (longer than a tortilla), then cover to help them stay a little moist and pliable. Cut in half and enjoy.

Pita bread stuffed with skillet fried steak'ums, peppers and onions fried in butter, S&P and toped with melted American cheese and mustard. 

[Turin]

FYI, Arizonas' hard water sucks for bread making.

[reidy]

I am not sure were to find fresh yeast locally and as Australia is a different market it may be harder to find. I was thinking about this the other night whilst having a refreshing home brew. I always leave the yeast dregs in the bottom of the bottle and when I make a batch I always have heaps of yeast in the bottom of the fermenter. Is this yeast compatible with bread making or would I end up with some science experiment?

Thanks

Steve

 

[bigbikerrick]

Thanks folks for the replies. I am going to try your recipe, Cliffrod. My wife just got a fresh  package of instant yeast . A friend bought it for her in Mexico, as there was none available in the stores on the US side of the line here. It comes in a vacuum packed little "block" like coffee is packaged sometimes. Hopefully this will do the trick. Lots of good suggestions here, also never thought about the very "hard" water here in AZ..Thanks for that Turin.
 I am going to go back and read the other discussion Cliffrod did previously,and will give it a go this weekend, with the new stuff,
Thanks alot, everyone!
Rick.

[Anomaly]

Didn't want to interrupt this thread, and I'm far simplistic to pollute Cliffrod's wonderful bread thread, but... for me, foolproof is just some variation on my no-knead sourdough breads. My current starter is about 8 years old. I travel back and forth between Tuscany and Rhode Island with a small  amount (under 1 ounce) in a pill bottle. I pretty much feed it exclusively with rye (segale here) (in the US Bob's Red Mill has a nice dark rye). Lately, all my loaves are a majority of einkorn flour with some other stuff thrown in at random-- spelt is a favorite. Oh, and when in Tuscany, I often put in just a bit of castagna (chestnut). First photo shows feeding the starter to bring it back to life after refrigerating it between baking sessions (I make about a loaf a week for the two of us). Second photo shows a loaf after rising overnight (still has a ways to go but 10 hours+ will give it a nice sourdough tang).

[sign216]

I've grown wild sourdough starters before.  Great taste and ok leavening but not fast to do.  Right now, advocating leaving a wet bucket of flour out in the open to capture free floating spores of yeast et al to breed and multiply probably isn't going to hit the right target...

Cliff,
Years ago I made sourdough w wild yeast I caught by leaving the wet dough out for a day or two.  Ended up working okay.  I might try it again, and if it's works I'll keep the starter.
I like the idea of wild yeast, and I know some home winemakers use only wild yeast w great results.
Joe

[cliffrod]

Thanks folks for the replies. I am going to try your recipe, Cliffrod. My wife just got a fresh  package of instant yeast . A friend bought it for her in Mexico, as there was none available in the stores on the US side of the line here. It comes in a vacuum packed little "block" like coffee is packaged sometimes. Hopefully this will do the trick. Lots of good suggestions here, also never thought about the very "hard" water here in AZ..Thanks for that Turin.
 I am going to go back and read the other discussion Cliffrod did previously,and will give it a go this weekend, with the new stuff,
Thanks alot, everyone!
Rick.

Sounds good, Rick.  It sounds like your yeast was the problem, whether in whole or part, and salt issues probably helped fully wreck anything the yeast could do. 

We open our vacuum packed bag/block of yeast like you mention,  then transfer it into a screw-top plastic container (a small gatorade mix container that looks like an orange igloo cooler is a perfect fit for a 1 lb bag) and keep it in the fridge until it's gone.  That usually takes around 6 months.   It lasts ok on the shelf without refrigeration, but needs to be well sealed to stay dry.

We had to add a significant water softener system at the bagel shop (Knoxville, municipal water) to get the water where we needed it for proper results.

Good luck.  Have fun. 

Re Brewers yeast- I've not had much opportunity to bake bread with fresh active solids from brewing beer.  It doesn't produce the amount of CO2 that bakers yeast does.  If it did, the bottles would be more likely to pop tops or explode but it still produces leavening gases.   It's more like working with a sourdough starter- slower process but that's just the way it is.  An Ambassador isn't a Lemans..  No reason to not embrace both experiences if you can.

Re wild yeast sourdough- I did a big batch of wild sourdough starter at the bagel shop.  Left an open 5 bucket with flour and water on top of the mixer and tended/ran it for several months.  Great flavor and lots of fun, just didn't really fit that kitchen schedule or equipment.  I did others with added fruit skins and would like to do more now that I have my vineyard full of grapes and muscadines that I know never get any chemicals or treatments.  Just another project I haven't done yet.  Sourdoughs are wonderful.  Our schedule still fits best around this lazy butt cheat using the artisan bread in five minutes recipe built with a soured scrap of the same.  So far this "sourdough" we use will soon be 7 yrs old. 

[Tom]

Found this on baking.  "Everyone is baking...…"   https://thehustle.co/baking-bread-at-home/?utm_source=GetTheElevatordotcom

[Rick4003]

I made up a quick and so far fool proof recipe for morning/lunch buns. Could definitely also be used for larger loafs. Must have made it around 20 times now, success every time.

The buns are with a nice crispy crust and airy center with loads of holes.

Hang on tight guys, we are going metric here! ;)

The dough is mixed in the evening around 20:00-23:00 and left over night shaped in to buns in the morning and baked right after forming.

Mix is:
1500grams of tap water
50 grams of fresh yeast
25-30 grams of salt
2000grams of flour.

Water, yeast and salt are mixed together until dissolved. Flour is added and mixed until the dough is uniform in texture. Cover with tea towel and leave cold over night (5 to 10 degress celcius) There is no need to work the dough just mix until mixed evenly. Always use weights not volume when measuring up.

The dough is a high hydration dough so it is very sticky and not suitable for handling with your hands. I use two table spoons to scoop up a reasonable amount of dough and then place in on the baking tray.

The mix will usually give 25-27 buns of medium size that are very suitable for freezing. After trying out this recipe for the first time we haven't bought any finished buns since.

The oven is preheated to 225 Celsius and the buns are put in the oven as soon as you are done shaping them. Bake for 25 minutes and you are done. Make some coffee, spread on some butter and enjoy :)

-Ulrik

[pebra]

Thanks, Ulrik,
I'll putting your recipe ^ on my shortlist, together with Cliffrod's Artisan bread, which I plan to try this weekend.
Also I think Blackcat had an interesting recipe (at least the photos of the finished product looked good )  -  not certain if it's that different from Cliffrod's Artisan bread.

All of these are no-knead doughs. Memory from childhood: My mother taking it out on the dough when she was mad, pounding, hitting and kneading   

[bigbikerrick]

Thanks alot, folks, lots of great info here. I also plan to try cliffrods artisan recipe,and Ulriks as well as a recipe Jon Mathews sent me. I am looking forward to having a little fun with this.
Gracias,
Rick.

[Ncdan]

My wife makes really good home made bread, not using a machine but from scratch. She has been making it for years and there is nothing more satisfying than walking into our log house and smelling homemade bread in the oven.  She is getting it together now and I’ll PM it to you.

[mechanicsavant]

I’m with Turin water is hugely important . When I lived in the city bread was a crap shoot at best chlorine & fluoride & who knows in the tap . Try purified H2O . My brother lived in Las Vegas & the H2O wouldn’t work even with a bread machine ! Most of this year I’ve been using a sandwich bread formula from Julia Child’s kitchen one advantage is it uses milk instead of water and doing a basic double rise method . Folks around here are paying $7 loaf & $9 if its cinnamon raisin . Good hunting Mi amigo .

[bigbikerrick]

Thanks for the recipe, Dan. I am deffinitely going to try that!
  While looking at different bread recipes, I ran into this super simple no knead recipe. It almost seems too good to be true. What do you all think about it?
Thanks
Rick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0t8ZAhb8lQ

[jdgretz]

I use a bread machine - so I don't know if this will do you any good or not -

3 cups flour (bread flour is much better)
1 cup water - 110*F
1 packet yeast (2.25 tsp)
1.5 tsp salt
3 tbl oil
3 tbl sugar (I use honey)

Throw it in the machine, come back 3:45 later to some wonderful fresh bread.

The wife has been making Sourdough bread and bagels lately.  She got the starter from https://www.kingarthurflour.com/ (currently out of stock).  I found a 25 lb bag of bread flour at my local Smart & Final

jdg

[cliffrod]

Thanks for the recipe, Dan. I am deffinitely going to try that!
  While looking at different bread recipes, I ran into this super simple no knead recipe. It almost seems too good to be true. What do you all think about it?
Thanks
Rick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0t8ZAhb8lQ

This video, Rick's metric recipe and the artisan bread in five minutes are all variations of the same high moisture ratio (approx 50% or 1 part water to 2 parts flour) dough method.  The less yeast, the less opportunity you have to leaven effectively.   The excess water helps hydrate the flour without extra work vs less water that's laboriously kneaded into the flour to create a comparable even distribution. 

Using "hot" water like she does is a crap shoot, depending upon what each person considers "hot" to be.  Beyond 120F, typical  bread yeast is going to begin to suffer. (Cake yeast- 100F, Active yeast- 120F, instant yeast-130F) and all yeast is dead at 138F

Think about homeostasis and thermal batteries. Hot water is cooled somewhat by the flour.  As long as the dough mass stabilizes under temps noted above, you're ok,  if not, you're finished.   Unless you're seeking a really slow ferment for specific flavor or dough characteristics, there's no reason to use cold water.  Lukewarm is great.  A little warmer than lukewarm is what I normally use.  When I'm being accurate, 117F is the temp I use.  Usually, as long as the tap isn't super hot, I'll just use it.  Technically hot water from the tap is undesirable to use, based upon chemistry contributed by the water heater.  Cold water should be heated in a pan or microwave.  As long as your bread works & tastes ok, It's up to the cook.

IMHO The video recipe has a lot of salt compared to the yeast.  That makes using HOT water even more of a crap shoot.  The single rise method works fine and fits a normal life schedule.  She's trying to inspire people to just do it instead of stressing over the ideal ingredients or precise methods.  I like doing the ferment/first rise, retard (refrigerate until dough is fully cooled) and proof/second rise method better around my schedule. Extra yeast means more wiggle room.

I think if you practice with any or all of these three high moisture doughs with known good ingredients, you will find or even create a dough recipe that works for you. Just take notes if you make changes so you can do it on purpose a second time..   

The thing about bread (and so many other recipes) is that it's very personal, especially when outside of a professional kitchen.  Right and wrong has as much to do with whether it's my champion/wife/grandmother or your champion/wife/grandmother doing the cooking as the actual method or recipe.  I've never made a loaf of plain bread that tastes as good as my grandmother's bread.  Just have fun.

[AJ Huff]

Water temperature is very important. You can't ignore the increase in temperature from friction if using a mixer. If it feels warm to the touch, it's too hot.

-AJ