Defective tire or rim?

[pazzmore]

This is the second brand new Michelin Pilot Activ that is having this issue. I set up a pencil to check trueness, and while not perfect the rim seems straight enough? Also checked the bearing (smooth, no play) and mounting guideline which also seems clean enough. What do you all think is going on here?
https://youtu.be/to7J5N2jQ1I

https://youtu.be/1CpUCzZqZFk

https://youtu.be/tpRHWSa-Z_Y

[Perazzimx14]

How does it ride?

[Idontwantapickle]

It might be the tire but you will need to dismount it and check the mounting surface of the rim to rule that out. But first verify that the tire is fully seated.

[cookiemech]

It might be the tire but you will need to dismount it and check the mounting surface of the rim to rule that out. But first verify that the tire is fully seated.

Looking at the third video, I think this is a distinct possibility. Hard to say for sure, but it seems that the molded line next to the rim (which should be even all around) isn't the same distance from the rim at all points.

[pazzmore]

How does it ride?

Not good at lower speeds. Noticeable. Fine over 65.

[pazzmore]

Also, this balancing job seems suspect. Two places!? Seems like they were trying to make it work, but making it worse by not correcting it. Am I trippin'?

[Two Checks]

That is way too much weight. Something is wrong with that tire.
Or the wheel is bad.
Dismount the tire, remove the weights and see if the wheel is way out of balance.

[moto-uno]

  Have you brought your concerns up with the shop that installed and balanced your tire ?  Peter

[Vagrant]

JMHO, but the pilot is just a tire, not the cheapest but far from the best. I'm using Conti RA3 on the V7 and EV and just got a set of Bridgestone A41 radials for it. I balance my rims using JB weld to cover the weight in the drop center. rarely need a weight on the outside. Your balance job sucks. Looks like it was done by the 12 year old owners son.  I'd have the selling dealer remount using lots of lube and re balance it. if no good replace it with a good tire.

[Idontwantapickle]

Pazzmore

I watched the vids again.
Look carefully at the bead on the RH side. There should be a molded line visible and even all the way around just above the rim. On both sides as long as you're looking. It's the indicator for proper seating. Your tire appears to "bump" to the right indicating it may not be seated properly on that side.

Hunter

[pazzmore]

  Have you brought your concerns up with the shop that installed and balanced your tire ?  Peter

I don't think I'll be going back to them, even to fix this. It would be my third time and just don't trust them now. I think I'll just take the hit and have another shop (or the dealer even) sort it.

[pazzmore]

I watched the vids again.
Look carefully at the bead on the RH side. There should be a molded line visible and even all the way around just above the rim. On both sides as long as you're looking. It's the indicator for proper seating. Your tire appears to "bump" to the right indicating it may not be seated properly on that side.

Hunter

Thanks dude. I definitely see the uneven mount. I measured the gap and it's 1/8" on one side and 1/32" on the other.

[cliffrod]

Some are very stubborn in one or two spots.  Sometimes it take plenty of of rim/tire lube, a few inflate-deflate cycles and even breaking the bead more than once to get it to completely seat properly.  Usually it will continue to creep a little more each time until it seats.  The wrong way to do it is with excessive air pressure, gas & a match, etc.

I did one on Friday on a 21" HD rim that took nearly an hour to bead without over inflating & popping the tube.  It simply didn't want to creep to seat that last little bit.

[pazzmore]

Some are very stubborn in one or two spots.  Sometimes it take plenty of of rim/tire lube, a few inflate-deflate cycles and even breaking the bead more than once to get it to completely seat properly.

These guys were trying to get me in and out as quickly as possible. I could see them not caring if it was seated properly.

[kingoffleece]

I had three Pilot Activ fronts in a row that were bad.  twisted belts.
I switched to Conti RA3's and never looked back

[John A]

These guys were trying to get me in and out as quickly as possible. I could see them not caring if it was seated properly.

And to top it off, tires are usually done by shop rats

[pazzmore]

I had three Pilot Activ fronts in a row that were bad.  twisted belts.

holy sh!t

[Idontwantapickle]

I had three Pilot Activ fronts in a row that were bad.  twisted belts.
I switched to Conti RA3's and never looked back

Makes you wonder who Michelin farmed that out to. I'd not buy any more of those!

Some are very stubborn in one or two spots.  Sometimes it take plenty of of rim/tire lube, a few inflate-deflate cycles and even breaking the bead more than once to get it to completely seat properly.  Usually it will continue to creep a little more each time until it seats.  The wrong way to do it is with excessive air pressure, gas & a match, etc.

I did one on Friday on a 21" HD rim that took nearly an hour to bead without over inflating & popping the tube.  It simply didn't want to creep to seat that last little bit.

Good advice there, never overinflate to seat a tire. Just lube it up good and try again.

[s1120]

I had three Pilot Activ fronts in a row that were bad.  twisted belts.
I switched to Conti RA3's and never looked back

WOW Im sorry to hear that. I was thinking of getting them, but ended up going with the Shinko 230's to get on the road with fresh rubber, and my bike funds being depleted from repairs....  I was planning those next change.

[Perazzimx14]

Also, this balancing job seems suspect. Two places!? Seems like they were trying to make it work, but making it worse by not correcting it. Am I trippin'?

Someone probably balanced the wheel w/o the tire then rebalanced it with the tire. Not totally uncommon or out of the question to have 2 sets of weights.

Also they look like 1/4oz weights to a total of 1-1/4 ounces over 2 areas is not gross overkill.


After balancing tires for years with traditional stick on weights, 95/5 solder wrapped around spokes or balance beads I have finally settled on no balancing at all.

Before leaving for a trip last year I put on new Shinko 705's. I decided to gove them a try brfore I balanced them. Spooned on th enew rubber put he whel ont he bike and went for a ride. Smooth as glass as all speeds. Did the trip rearlasted 5K+ and the front is still going 10K+ with no weights and no discernable difference using verses not usin balancing.

Since then on other bikes I have done the same and each time no weigh and smooth ride. Even darksiding two of my bikes no problem.


If I did find a disturbance during a test run with new tires. I's inspect them to make sure they were fully seated if so I'd then take them off remount them and see if they were still acting up. If they still were only then would i use weights to try an correct the imbalance. So far I;ve not need to go ast step one on the last 3 or 4 tires.


 

[kingoffleece]

Pilot Activs were all replaced under warrentee but I got fed up and got the Contis.

[Moparnut72]

Many years ago spliting the weights between the lightest point was the recommended way of balancing a wheel. I was taught to do it that way. In fact the first time I saw someone use a single weight I was shocked. I don't remember what the reasoning was but it is supposed to be better. In the auto world computerized balancers would locate the two positions.
kk

[Huzo]

The third video clearly shows the runout in the tyre.
The rim is fine.

[s1120]

Many years ago spliting the weights between the lightest point was the recommended way of balancing a wheel. I was taught to do it that way. In fact the first time I saw someone use a single weight I was shocked. I don't remember what the reasoning was but it is supposed to be better. In the auto world computerized balancers would locate the two positions.
kk

Back in the "bubble balance" years when I started in the early 70's, weights were never in the same place on auto wheels..  You found your weight, and moved them away around the rim till it was right. Tech and equipment changes, but still comes down to there are many ways to achieve the same goal

[Guzzistaracing]

Looking at the third video it looks like it is not fully seated.

[sib]

I believe that the OEM installed weights are to balance the rims, not the tires.  I bring my wheels to a reliable shop to have them install new tires.  They check the wheel balance after installing the tires.  Generally, if the tire is mounted correctly, the wheel is pretty well balanced and needs no extra weights.

[larrys]

The owners manual for my Monster says don't move the wheel weights when changing a tire. Going to need a set in a few thousand miles. I'll find out...
Larry

[pazzmore]

Can I deflate the tire and try to see if it seats differently on inflation, or do I need bead breaker tools and such?

[OldMojo]

I think at this point I'd obtain some genuine tire mounting lube, break the bead on the offending side and butter it up liberally. Then have a go with reinflating.

[kirby1923]

I agree with Mojo,to unseat clean very good and lube, and reseat, it really sounds like the bead is not fully seated. When that happens it is difficult to balance the wheel/tire with a normal amount of weight, that is an important clue.

I've had this happen on skinny bias tires and it is sometimes very hard to see. Sometimes you can pick it up on the balancer when spinning, sometime not.