Recommissioning a 67 V700

[jacksonracingcomau]

Or Harvey goes Loopy !

Had it for a few years now, sub 5K miles but bashed about and missing a few bits
Decided to sell it and move on, agreed deal with mate

But then I faultered, not going for concours, too many of them around
Will be Frank Sinatra’s 67, not rocket ship (did that to a loopy in 80’s)
First had to be bars, can’t do the steer from the rear any more
Flywheel has to go, am engine braker (not breaker)
Want a double sided front brake maybe even proper forks
Looking at true 850 cc
Seat is new V7, love the irony, feels right

Go on,  crucify me, running won’t look much different to this, no paint for now, engine, box halfway decent suspension then test, might stay like this for my lifetime, the kids can paint it.

[lazlokovacs]

looking forward to this

I love my loop and its crazy heavy flywheel! but then I put a modern cali breva mashup front end on it, most comfortable tourer I've ever had...

 

[lazlokovacs]

and yeah the first minute of steering from the rear is f---ing chicken oriental but then it seems normal...

[Kiwi_Roy]

You jest surely, that orange hurts my eyes and those bars are so wrong, I see the right ones on the bench.
The paint I could live with.

[jacksonracingcomau]

You jest surely, that orange hurts my eyes and those bars are so wrong, I see the right ones on the bench.
The paint I could live with.

No orange, china
Is unoiled raw rooskin, wet moulded
Colour tba

Steer from rear bars and “10kg “risers” stay in box so “restorer” can fit one day.
With any other oe bits I reject
Your bike as you want it, my opinion irrelevant
Me, I’ve travelled each and every highway, lived a life that’s full etc etc

But alway’s Frank’s way

[jacksonracingcomau]

and yeah the first minute of steering from the rear is f---ing chicken oriental but then it seems normal...

Trouble is switching twixt bikes, the chicken oriental every time
Get it with uk bike and linked brakes, ok after week or so
That’s annual (not this year tho’)
Swapping regularly with stupid risers /bars would likely hurt me, too old for that stuff
KISS works for me

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

I like the bars, what are they?

[chuck peterson]

I'm freaking out about how well the new 2006? v7 seat fits right into the lines of a 1967....that's just, I don't know, impossible?

[jacksonracingcomau]

looking forward to this

I love my loop and its crazy heavy flywheel! but then I put a modern cali breva mashup front end on it, most comfortable tourer I've ever had...

 

Been thinking about this
If you used cali top yoke surely your  bars mount straight to them ?
It is the steel (or cast iron) risers that are most of the rear steer problem
But someone knew future was coming, the mount points for them in top yoke are spaced perfectly for 7/8” handlebar clamp. I reckon sig Carcano wanted bars mounted to yoke but traditionalists of time all steered from rear.
In my youth it was that or clip ons, by 75 everything new was bars mounted in front of stem, don’t know about modern retro cruisers but haven’t noticed anything rear steer

[jacksonracingcomau]

I'm freaking out about how well the new 2006? v7 seat fits right into the lines of a 1967....that's just, I don't know, impossible?

Same seat fits nicely with le mans guard/ base too




Or old Tonti small blocks, probably anything really, is just a seat that mrs finds comfy and as most things, if it is right it will look right. Form follows function, never the other way round

I like the bars, what are they?

Magura tapered kids mx, been on my Tonti for 20 years
May use same bars that replaced them —Rizoma knock offs from aliexpress; slightly narrower with more length for controls,

[lazlokovacs]

Been thinking about this
If you used cali top yoke surely your  bars mount straight to them ?
It is the steel (or cast iron) risers that are most of the rear steer problem
But someone knew future was coming, the mount points for them in top yoke are spaced perfectly for 7/8” handlebar clamp. I reckon sig Carcano wanted bars mounted to yoke but traditionalists of time all steered from rear.
In my youth it was that or clip ons, by 75 everything new was bars mounted in front of stem, don’t know about modern retro cruisers but haven’t noticed anything rear steer

used both yokes!

top yoke from cali, then bolted the loop top yoke to the cali one so I could keep original dials etc. Had to change mounting points of risers (or length of risers can't remember) to keep the original bar position.

I ride with swept back police bars as well. I love it!

I only really get along with clip ons or mega steer from the rear.

pics in this thread

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=100283.msg1586193#msg1586193

[jacksonracingcomau]

used both yokes!

top yoke from cali, then bolted the loop top yoke to the cali one so I could keep original dials etc. Had to change mounting points of risers (or length of risers can't remember) to keep the original bar position.

I ride with swept back police bars as well. I love it!

I only really get along with clip ons or mega steer from the rear.

pics in this thread

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=100283.msg1586193#msg1586193

Wow, you went to a lot of trouble to keep the CO steering !
I’m neutral, between that and clip ons
But I can see rearers (they don’t really rise much) could work on outfit which is going to steer radio rentally anyway. If I end up with a chair on it, I’ll test (unlikely)

Anyway, the things now in bits, it truly is 5k miles, everything not rusty or missing is perfect, clutch splines, plates etc etc, doubt it has run for 50 years.
Only odd one out is lh head has no exhaust threads whatsoever, must have been ridden till it blew header right out !

Coincidence #2
Heads are ported to exactly line up with le mans manifolds of 1975 on
Then restricted with steel tube to 30mm and pissy valves
Somebody had a plan there that took a while to put in practise




Coincidence #3
I didn’t have puller small enough for oil pump gear
Old clutch plate centre hole centres exactly the same as oil pump gear
Pulled the gear in seconds



The sad bits
Not just flywheel that’s heavy, it’s all of it, crank gear alone is a ton, generator and mounting kit even worse. Diet will help everywhere.
Amazingly they did have a go at lightening cam and oil pump gears !
Also the changing of head size or bolts, some M8 have 13mm, most are 14mm, they will all be the same next week. Whitworth had this sussed in 1840’s, no reason for anyone not to have understood his logic.
Worse is the clutch hub held on with circlip, splines are perfect but the rattle on that is completely unnecessary, output shaft has thread, why not input ?

A few things to nut out but I’m on it now, will take shape in next few weeks, plan to have it sorted by Spag Rally in Oct, then off to Tassy again, my missus is liking slow, this should be that.
I want 60+ proper English mpg, doubt we’ll travel at much more than 60 mph

[Kiwi_Roy]

Sorry, I stand by my original comment re the leather colour I would try to lighten it up perhaps, or switch all the way over to black, Roo skin will be pretty exotic for sure are you going to sew it yourself, I recently came across Speedy stitchers the same as my Father used for leather. that would be an inexpensive way to sew it.
https://www.speedystitcher.com/#the-basics
Right side gear shift will make it interesting shifting if you also ride other bikes.
The seat pan on mine was rotted right out so I cut a new one out of 1/8" aluminium but kept the raised section over the rear fender as I have no skill forming metal, it goes all the way back to the clip on the loop frame, don't you think the V7 seat may be a bit short for 2 up riding?
I find the front brakes are quite adequate, you just have to have an escape route in advance.
I have no need for a concourse bike either, put your own stamp on it and to hell with what anyone else thinks I say.
I find the 50 year old generator is perfectly adequate, I run a heated vest and gloves full on in the winter time along with the original sealed beam headlight, I thought it was starting to fail but then I found the belt was hanging by a thread and obviously slipping badly.

[jacksonracingcomau]

Sorry, I stand by my original comment re the leather colour I would try to lighten it up perhaps, or switch all the way over to black, Roo skin will be pretty exotic for sure are you going to sew it yourself, I recently came across Speedy stitchers the same as my Father used for leather. that would be an inexpensive way to sew it.
https://www.speedystitcher.com/#the-basics
Right side gear shift will make it interesting shifting if you also ride other bikes.
The seat pan on mine was rotted right out so I cut a new one out of 1/8" aluminium but kept the raised section over the rear fender as I have no skill forming metal, it goes all the way back to the clip on the loop frame, don't you think the V7 seat may be a bit short for 2 up riding?
I find the front brakes are quite adequate, you just have to have an escape route in advance.
I have no need for a concourse bike either, put your own stamp on it and to hell with what anyone else thinks I say.
I find the 50 year old generator is perfectly adequate, I run a heated vest and gloves full on in the winter time along with the original sealed beam headlight, I thought it was starting to fail but then I found the belt was hanging by a thread and obviously slipping badly.

Yeah, colour is so subjective, if I want to get a broad opinion, I ask one, women have more interest in colour than me. Veg tanned roo seems to appeal to them, I get a lot of female compliments to my bikes, YMMV.

Seat, same as on my BB Tonti, she finds it comfy, that’s important to me. Neither of us big or heavy and no intention of finding a fat replacement. Bigger couples may have issue with length but plenty of 2 up V7 SB’s around with this or similar.
It also weighs nothing, Frank’s happy with that, and cheap !

No stitching, that IS the trick, all bags, seats and tanks I’ve done the same way, wet mold and fold like origami, glue with stuff that keeps your soles on

Electrickery, genny gives more than I could ever need, I’m one of very few on here that like Bosch excited rotor, kept me in all juice I need for 42 years.
But this thing weighs a ton, that’s my objection to it, modern alternator may come for that reason only.

Gear change, been a long time since I swapped regularly, Beezas were one up, Trumpys one down, Guzzi lh one down— was all easy then .
It may be the one up change that’s too hard, changing up when I want engine braking with SFA in the way of real brakes could be fatal.
Clutch arm gets in the way of reversing pattern on the 4 speed.
But I have options, a spare 5 speed box on the shelf and also a mate with lh change Ambo , all his other bikes are rh change so a lever swap would suit him

Pic for today
All apart, only front crank nut needed windy gun, he was kin tight.
And dipstick won’t budge, may not even use it, I do like plastic one from Tonti’s 85 on, no tools and can’t break, but determined to get this out intact.
Soaking in penetrant now, maybe show it the torch tomorrow !
Apart from that, it’s like working on new bike, no one’s been in here since Luigi built it in 66 or 67, not one stripped thread or rounded bolt.
But did he like tab washers ? Proof they were never needed right here, all torqued perfectly more than 50 years later,tabs were doing squat.
Picture really for botanist, bet there’s one on forum
Bike has obviously sat outside with barrels off and collected some foliage, leaves not immediately familiar to me and bike definitely came from USA, any guesses where ?

[Chuck in Indiana]

Only odd one out is lh head has no exhaust threads whatsoever, must have been ridden till it blew header right out !

Tech tip for you. Just put the pipe in, pack it with muffler cement, drill a hole in from the side, and run a wood screw in there. That was on an old loop barn find I had. Probably came from FWs "Tips" book.   

[harrytief]

Anyone try a front end with reduced offset on a loop?
I have had great success with gsxr  usd front ends on my tonti frame projects. I get modern brakes along with improved stability and handling. I am toying
 with the same idea on a spare ambo frame project,
Harry

[lazlokovacs]

yes...

see my post above

[harrytief]

pics please?

[lazlokovacs]

pics in the thread....

  

[jacksonracingcomau]

Tech tip for you. Just put the pipe in, pack it with muffler cement, drill a hole in from the side, and run a wood screw in there. That was on an old loop barn find I had. Probably came from FWs "Tips" book.   

Thanks Chuck
The thing is not quite all beer and skittles, may have to use that trick on sump too
I got the leaves out (merkan oak or maybe maple from further north?) and found this





Looks bashed from inside but can’t be, fork lift wound?

[Tom H]

For your exhaust issue. MG Cycle or Harpers may have a threaded ring to fix the threads. You would machine out the head to the ring size and weld it in.

If there are some threads left and you have the brass nuts, you can hammer in a tapered socket or the like and stretch out the nut a little and they will normally work again.

Good luck.
Tom

[Don G]

I may have a spare LH head in my stash of V700 crap, would you be interested? Let me know I will have a look to see what I have. Thanks DonG

[jacksonracingcomau]

For your exhaust issue. MG Cycle or Harpers may have a threaded ring to fix the threads. You would machine out the head to the ring size and weld it in.

If there are some threads left and you have the brass nuts, you can hammer in a tapered socket or the like and stretch out the nut a little and they will normally work again.

Good luck.
Tom

Thanks Tom, intended to get that ring made but nice to know it’s available, no reason to reinvent wheel (unless it’s too dear )
No thread at all left, no nuts yet either

I may have a spare LH head in my stash of V700 crap, would you be interested? Let me know I will have a look to see what I have. Thanks DonG

Thanks Don but is fixable with ring welded in, at this stage anyway, someone else may have greater need,

[jacksonracingcomau]

Getting into it now
Sludge trap as you’d expect for 53 years mostly parked



image hosting


And oil pressure relief valve was factory set at 58psi as per later models, maybe spec in  book is error ?
So that’s a relief, one less mod to do

Something about Carcano’s foresight
He never wanted the “cables everywhere” look they ended up with
3 strategically placed holes in top yoke to keep it neat, overuled by same bloke who steers from rear



image upload

Took Tonti to make real changes to old school thinking

Flywheel
Have a 95 Cali one I thought was heavy, 67 just mental, 5lbs more on bathroom scales




Made this today, I know you can buy them but this is Guzzi content , right ?




Last one for day
I found another sump, the broken one, nacelle and 4k miles speedo make a perfect ornament.
Will clean just a little more and hang on wall




Will post more as I go if anyone interested, engine should go back in soon

[Tom H]

Keep us updated!!

Tom

[rutgery]

Hey Martin,

Nice to see you build a loop! Will it see any time on the road with your lario being so nice to ride?
Please keep us updated on the build!

Rutger

[jacksonracingcomau]

Hey Martin,

Nice to see you build a loop! Will it see any time on the road with your lario being so nice to ride?
Please keep us updated on the build!

Rutger

My BB of 42 years not bad either, but the little 8v is a hoot
This one will see miles but possibly not many, hopefully enough to justify the $ and hours that go into it, knowing fullwell it is highly likely to get turned into show queen one day.
For me, as it was , was the garage ornament, decision to make it a user has been taken.

To make the 2ls front brake work well is one of challenges, good cable and proper lever part of it for sure
Shoes turned out to be unused, unlike rears that had signs of some work, maybe it didn’t just ride on wrong side of road but went backwards too !

After getting the rust from drum it looks tickety boo, will try with original shoes before getting carried away with super soft linings etc.




Surprising was one loose spoke, unusual for Guzzi straight pull , but these are not ss, not that that should make a difference but I’ve kept steel for now, ss ones here and ready to go in if it proves itself ( otherwise 4ls wheel has to go in)

Factory grease for wheel bearings still in place, may leave that too, spins better than any ball bearing I’ve ever seen
Taper rollers perfect for wheels, sad they are confined to history. This bike will be rolling race king , drums and taper rollers = no drag at all.

Steering head bearings are dry, lubing em up now, I think they’ll survive

Front tyre about to be changed too, not looking forward to getting that off rim, first tyre change is the one you musn’t leave any marks. Getting new one on (tubeless) is a doddle but the hard as rocks original may need some GBH, cutting it off a possibility.

Fork service hit and miss too, not getting emulators (yet), mad guess at oil weight and height first

More to follow

Edit later in day
Extreme apologies to Luigi with grease
Ample in the steering head bearings, could’ve readjusted and ridden
But Marco with the spanners wants scolding, done up so tight they could barely turn




That and the one loose spoke the only factory assembly errors I’ve found !

But Luigi caused an assumption I wrongly made
Forks had to come out for seals, I thought
Actually an abundance of grease for springs, dribbling after 53 years, diabolical !
Seals will almost certainly be perfect




This bike is absolute joy to work on, after a life of resurrecting worn out and mullered old stuff to work on new old stock is heaven
I want more ex usa bikes, you guys preserve them for the world, my thanks to the herbert who bought but never rode (or worse) this bike.

[jacksonracingcomau]

Interest waning so I’ll keep to only the non original stuff as everyone here knows or can look up what an original one looked like.

This to get to the real purists




Of course it didn’t have ss spokes or tricky valve but originals + rim tape and tube .preserved in my reject box for the one day concours job..
Nipples are the original, in their correct place, just cleaned

They might appreciate the spoke clamped balance weight just visible, couldn’t use stick-on for this, just felt wrong !

Messing with forks now, getting the right oil to avoid topping out is a bit of a game, is experimental of course so won’t post air gap or weight until proven in action but original specs not up to Frank’s way.

Theme now has another twist, in my head I keep hearing an old Stevie Wonder song
“His clothes are old but never are they dirty”
No paint, nor polish but definitely no dirt. Function is everything
Living just enough for the city

[Tom H]

Nice work!

On a side note, does anybody know what grease was used on the old Loops? It does seem to last forever and can be a bear to clean off. The closest I can find is StaLube HD drum brake grease.

Tom

[jacksonracingcomau]

Nice work!

On a side note, does anybody know what grease was used on the old Loops? It does seem to last forever and can be a bear to clean off. The closest I can find is StaLube HD drum brake grease.

Tom

Thanks

On this, the brake grease had gone completely, cams and spindles dry as a nun’s
Fork springs and head bearings was all there but hard and as you say, a bear to remove
Wheel bearings in a different black grease, still perfect.

I use this stuff everywhere, including shaft splines, but I won’t be around in 53 years to report !