OBP (other bikes problems)

[GeorgiaGuzzi]

So before I purchased my Quota, I did a lot of online research into different bikes. I’ll ride *almost* anything! Anyways, during my researching/lurking I discovered that almost every manufacturer had a bad model year or three. As you look through different threads you see common words used “dreaded” problem here, xxxx “issue” there. It really impressed on me that no manufacturer is exempt from sometimes really bad design ideas. This was brought back to the forefront of my mind the other day when a friend totaled his work truck. It was a powerstroke 6.0. Someone had recommended he get a Cummins next. Having over half a million miles on mine I offered some tips on which models to avoid bc of serious problems. Powerstrokes too have some years that need to be avoided.

This got me thinking that being a Guzzi board sometimes all we ask about or discuss are problems. I mean, if my bike is running great I’m not going to start a thread to say “running great, nothing to see here” because I’m going to be quite content and trying to ride the wheels off it!

This is NOT meant to be a other brand bashing thread. More like an educational discussion on what models to avoid and to remind us that our Guzzi’s are by far from the only bikes out there with issues! I’ll start with a couple.

99-00 Victory V92s had brittle third gears. They usually grenade around 30k miles. At first Polaris didn’t acknowledge the problem. Just blamed it on improper operation or maintenance. But it kept happening. They then offered a transmission upgrade, but while they covered the cost of parts, the owner had to pay for labor. An expensive “solution”. In ‘01 they put Cush drive sprockets on some bikes with effected transmissions to reduce the torque shock. In ‘02 they had redesigned transmissions that solved the issue. I have an ‘03, good transmission and first year for the freedom 92’ engine. It’s a loud sewing machine. Moral of this story? Avoid 99-01 V92s! Exceptions are bikes that had upgraded transmissions installed, but you have to check the location of the speed sensor to verify.

Kawasaki gpZ1100. This is a bike I almost bought before the Quota. It goes like stink and has decent handling in the Uni-track version. However, researching the model I found that they had weak factory crankshafts! The cranks were prone to twisting under hard launches. Solution? Just weld the crank to reinforce it! Easy right? Except way too much work in my opinion to buy something and immediately dig into the bottom end to make sure I didn’t have catastrophic problems down the line.

Those are just two examples. What are some “lemons” that you good people know about?

[Lannis]

The pre-1968 BSA twins with Lucas 4CA points.   The points were designed wrong (sort of like the cam followers on 8V 2008 - 2012 Guzzis), and would "bounce", giving a rogue spark which would happen at a very inopportune time for the health of the engine, and blow holes in the pistons and break con-rods.

They HAD to be upgraded.   If you have an old BSA that you want to restore to concours specs, you won't be able to run it if you use "original" points ....

Lannis

[sdcr]

Can we keep BMW’s out of this?

There isn’t enough bandwidth.

[moto-uno]

  ^  God knows how true this is , I worked at a dealership when the first K-bikes were out . No lack of work  , Peter
But , hey they weren't alone as you say , last years at a Yamaha dealership and we were replacing transmissions on the
R1 & R1M models before they had their first checkup ( started at 23 hrs and got down to 18 hrs to perform task , they should
 have replaced the entire engine assembly )

[larrys]

The pre-1968 BSA twins with Lucas 4CA points.   The points were designed wrong (sort of like the cam followers on 8V 2008 - 2012 Guzzis), and would "bounce", giving a rogue spark which would happen at a very inopportune time for the health of the engine, and blow holes in the pistons and break con-rods.

They HAD to be upgraded.   If you have an old BSA that you want to restore to concours specs, you won't be able to run it if you use "original" points ....
Lannis

Triumph used them, too. 
Larry

[cliffrod]

The very first version of alternator-equipped HD Sportsters, circa 1984-85 at the end of the iron head 1000cc engines (pre Evolution), have a stator with magnets secured by faulty epoxy.  By this point, the magnets are usually loose and attracted/connected to each other end to end in a long lump.   As long as some epoxy remains between the magnets to insulate them for each other and they don't foul the rotor, all is good. If not, it's a serious repair if you pay a shop to do the work.   A replacement stator is/was around $700.00 wholesale dealer cost....

As long as nothing bad has happened, you can remove the primary outer & inner plus clutch and Epoxy the original magnets back into proper position with JB weld or similar.   If you buy a sportster like this and don't know it's been done or upgraded with a new rotor, it's a must-do task to avoid a big repair bill.  It's also must-know info before buying one of these bikes that isn't charging properly.

My like-new 84 Sportster only had around 2200 original miles when I got it about 10 yrs ago.  When I took it apart as preventative maintenance to fix this problem before it broke, all magnets were loose and end to end.    Easy to fix, but not a 15 minute project.

[Rough Edge racing]

Triumph used them, too. 
Larry

  I am no experts on details but I believe it was the profile of the points cam that caused the problem... Tiumph didn't have this problem...
  Can't mention old Brit bikes without thinking oil leaks, lol

[Don G]

Harley twin cam timing chain fiasco.  DonG

[frozengoose]

The pre-1968 BSA twins with Lucas 4CA points.   The points were designed wrong (sort of like the cam followers on 8V 2008 - 2012 Guzzis), and would "bounce", giving a rogue spark which would happen at a very inopportune time for the health of the engine, and blow holes in the pistons and break con-rods.

They HAD to be upgraded.   If you have an old BSA that you want to restore to concours specs, you won't be able to run it if you use "original" points ....

Lannis

I think a far worse problem with those old BSA twins was the crankshaft "grenading" after about 10-20k miles. I had a 650 Lightening, a 68 I think, it was over forty years ago, and it ran great no problems as they say. After I sold it, a few years later heard that the engine had to be rebuilt, a "crank problem" he said. So here's what the BSA "experts" say (scroll down, it's a ways from the top)...

http://www.bsaocsc.org/images/Feb_15_Piled_Armscomp_1.pdf

If I remember right, those old Lucas points just had one adjustment screw, so you could only set one side, then had to finagle the other by guess and by golly. The Prince of Darkness strikes again.

[larrys]

  I am no experts on details but I believe it was the profile of the points cam that caused the problem... Tiumph didn't have this problem...
  Can't mention old Brit bikes without thinking oil leaks, lol

I didn’t know that the problem was with the points cam on the Beezers. I didn’t like the 4CA plates in the Triumphs because they were so much more fussy to time. I always changed them out to the 6CA plates and found someplace for a condenser block.
Oil leaks, yeah... We won’t talk about zener diodes either.
Larry

[oldbike54]

 How many sand cast 750 Hondas went bang ? Ever ride a 450 or the 500 CC variant ? Yep , shook like a paint shaker on high speed setting . Ever been following an older HD with the single bolt header flange on the cylinder head and watched as the exhaust system came flying off the bike ? How about the early Twin cam 88's that didn't have sufficient engine breathing , run them hard enough they would literally pump oil out into the air filter . We won't even discuss the Norton Combat Commando , or the propensity for Kawasaki triples to eat their ignition systems , or how fiddly early airhead points were to set .

 Dusty

[guzzler]

Kawasaki and cam chain pitting ( on my GPZ900 ) at about 30,000 k'k
Suzuki and Reg/rec ( I think from memory but definitely electrical ) less than 20000 k's on my GSXR1100 ( bought new )
Honda and cam chains / tensioners ( various dirt bikes )
Yep I remind a couple of mates about this when they extract the Michael about my Guzzi  ha ha
So Guzzi are not alone in having the odd issue!
Cheers Guzzler
Ps the difference being that a Guzzi is worth sorting the issue ( s ) !

[guzzler]

Whoops
I should have said cam pitting on the Kwak!
Normal transmission will be resumed shortly.
Cheers Guzzler

[Lannis]

Yamaha TX-750 SOHC cam and balancer chains frothing up the oil.   Almost took Yamaha under.   They made a good recovery with the TX500, but for years, there were adverts in the chopper mags for "Chopper Engine, Ready to Run" showing a TX750 engine where someone had bought all the unsold ones at pennies on the dollar and were selling them for $100 each ...

Lannis

[Turin]

pre 2001 KTM 640 LC4s cracked cylinder heads. (not acknowledged by KTM)

Early Bloor/Hinckley Triumphs had sprag clutch issues.

Some early 90's Ducati supersports would develop frame cracks.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Early Goldwing alternators were plugged into the loom the connection would corrode and burn out the coils resulting in a huge job to strip everything and replace the coils. The solution was to cut out the connector and solder the wires to the loom.

[Shorty]

"URAL"

"Royal Enfield"

      

[Scout63]

But the combat Commando is SOOO worth the effort of replacing the crank and layshaft bearings.

[Rough Edge racing]

I didn’t know that the problem was with the points cam on the Beezers. I didn’t like the 4CA plates in the Triumphs because they were so much more fussy to time. I always changed them out to the 6CA plates and found someplace for a condenser block.
Oil leaks, yeah... We won’t talk about zener diodes either.
Larry

  From Brit Bike  forum........"The 4CA AAU unit caused it, the profile on the points cam allowed a second bounce on the points leading to the stray spark. It affected all engines fitted with the 4CA but its affect varied depending on the engine design, quality of assembly. The eventual fix was the 6CA AAU together with the 6CA points plate which allowed easier adjustment of the points so a better chance of both cylinders firing 360 degrees apart."
 In the mid to late 60' arguably, BSA has the worst quality control of all the manufacturers and contributed to the problem..For sure
as you say the points could also be a factor...

  The 80's Honda V4 cam problems that was eventually fixed.

[Ncdan]

I was fortunate to ride the last HD the WSPD ever used. A 1980 Electra Glide (AMF). When I was issued the machine it only had 12K miles. It used a full quart of oil at the end of every tour of duty day and at 70 MPH the vibration was so severe I could literally not keep my boots planted to the floorboards. Disgusting creature, but for some unexplainable reason I hated it when she was relieved from duty. 

[Two Checks]

Quote from: oldbike54 on June 12, 2020, 04:51:44 PM

How many sand cast 750 Hondas went bang ? Ever ride a 450 or the 500 CC variant ? Yep , shook like a paint shaker on high speed setting . Ever been following an older HD with the single bolt header flange on the cylinder head and watched as the exhaust system came flying off the bike ? How about the early Twin cam 88's that didn't have sufficient engine breathing , run them hard enough they would literally pump oil out into the air filter . We won't even discuss the Norton Combat Commando , or the propensity for Kawasaki triples to eat their ignition systems , or how fiddly early airhead points were to set .

 Dusty

Most definitely followed a FLH when the exhaust came off. Same bike when the cam bearing failed.

As for the Hondas, I've ridden the 500cc version, a friend had the 550, there was a 400 and I owned the 350. Never heard of a 450.

Did you mean the 550? My 350 was quite smooth.

The Kaw ZG 1000 also had the cam problem through its production. It also had vacuum operated petcocks which failed...but you didn't know it until you removed the tank, or...one of the float needles leaked and if you were lucky there was gas all over or if unlucky gas filled a cylinder and the engine hydrolocked, bending a rod. GS Suzukis had the same problem except the Kaw needle seats weren't replaceable. The needles were more than $20 each.

Early Yam FJs had weak 2nd gears.

I don't know how many bikes had oil bath alternators which cooked em.

[oldbike54]

 ^^^You've never heard of a CB450 Honda ?? They came out in '65 and lasted until '74 , followed by a 500 CC variant . Twin cylinder , torsion bar valve springs , more O rings in the motor than you could count .

 Dusty

[ohiorider]

^^^You've never heard of a CB450 Honda ?? They came out in '65 and lasted until '74 , followed by a 500 CC variant . Twin cylinder , torsion bar valve springs , more O rings in the motor than you could count .

 Dusty

Back in 1965, one of the guys from college who'd gotten into bikes bought a CB 450, known as the "Black Bomber."  Had the stock tank replaced, installed a saddle with rear cowl, overall slimmed the looks of the bike.  Me, riding the 'mighty' BSA 650 Scrambler, thought, "I'll dust that little bike off next time we're out for a group ride.  Not to be ...... the CB450 blew my doors off!

Bob

[moto-uno]

  In addition to what "Lannis" was mentioning about the Yammie TX750 . Holy crap , did that thing have warranty recalls,
I remember 3 different points assemblies to try and stop the leaks , then the biggest job and expense was they neglected
to install any tensioning device for the balancer chain , factory sent reps(with mechanics) to demonstrate how to install one.
I forget what the problem was with the clutch , but , by the end of their 2 year run , the warranty recall binder was aa large as
the service manual  . The really ironic part of this , is when new they were soooo smooth and powerful . The shop sold
HD ,Triumph and Yamaha , at the time I never imagined it was possible to see a Japanese motorcycle in for work more often than
the Triumphs or HD's !   Peter

[Two Checks]

Quote from: oldbike54 on Today at 12:03:19 PM

^^^You've never heard of a CB450 Honda ?? They came out in '65 and lasted until '74 , followed by a 500 CC variant . Twin cylinder , torsion bar valve springs , more O rings in the motor than you could count .

 Dusty

I read and reread the original post and it hit me.

The way it was written made me think he was referring to a 450 version of the 750.

Thok! (Smacks forehead)

[wymple]

When Yamaha discontinued the TX750 there were chopper kit ads in the bike classifieds that included a TX750 engine. The apparent problem was the wild length of the cam chain, and I think they made much improvement in the last few made. They should have stuck with it and sorted it out as it was a nice bike, but it would have been a hard sell with the reputation in the tank anyway. Kawasaki made a big 750 twin that was better looking and I believe a good bike. They didn't sell either. I don't think speed was anything to brag about and everyone was hung up on the 1/4 mile back then. It ran like an XS650 powerwise.

[moto-uno]

  When I was working on them , I remember them being much  more powerful on the highway
than the 650's (which as much as I enjoyed riding them), kinda vibrated a lot !   Peter

[Muzz]

^^^You've never heard of a CB450 Honda ?? They came out in '65 and lasted until '74 , followed by a 500 CC variant . Twin cylinder , torsion bar valve springs , more O rings in the motor than you could count .

 Dusty

We never (to my knowledge) got a 500 out here.

The Black Bomber seemed to be a pretty solid machine with a fair turn of speed for the years of it's manufacture.

[huub]

But the combat Commando is SOOO worth the effort of replacing the crank and layshaft bearings.

and if you were running it hard the crankcase and the gearbox . and probably a couple of other minor issues
I bought mine in 1984, has been on and off the road ever since.
now waiting for another engine rebuild....
I think the conrods and the rockers are the only parts in the engine that have not needed a rebuild since i own it.

[Rough Edge racing]

and if you were running it hard the crankcase and the gearbox . and probably a couple of other minor issues
I bought mine in 1984, has been on and off the road ever since.
now waiting for another engine rebuild....
I think the conrods and the rockers are the only parts in the engine that have not needed a rebuild since i own it.

Be cautious with
 the original aluminum connecting rods They were strong when new but half a century later,maybe not so much. Torque the cap onto the rod with no bearing inserts. Measure with a bore gauge,if out of round more than .0005 of an inch, they  junk. This is the only warning the rod give before exiting the engine cases....If it's an engine seeing just low speed putting they may be ok..Aluminum rods cannot be safely resized like steel rods....