Riddle me this about oil pans please

[inditx]

So my 2003 EV has the stock oil pan and internal filter set up. I changed the oil and boy howdy, holy sludge batman! What seems odd to me though is that the internal oil filter is upside down. Doesn't that make the problem worse in that the filter is not retaining the sludge in an inverted position?
Was thinking about an outsider but the cost and now seeing all that crud has got me thinking a bit.
Thanks gents,
Jack aka inditx

[oldbike54]

 If you are seeing any sludge there is a problem .

 Dusty

[delrod]

I have seen mayo even free water in mine.Seems to be directly related to not getting hot enough. If ridden like a stolen motorcycle there will be neither. My two cents

[inditx]

If you are seeing any sludge there is a problem .

 Dusty

Well it did sit for 2 years or better with same oil but still wonder about the design of an upside down filter to hold any would be contaminants.

[oldbike54]

Well it did sit for 2 years or better with same oil but still wonder about the design of an upside down filter to hold any would be contaminants.

 An oil filter "traps" contaminant particles in the mesh , not in the empty space .

 Dusty

[Two Checks]

Not to mention an anti drainback valve.

[Old Jock]

Depends on your definition of sludge I guess

If I've dropped the pan on a bike which hasn't been open in a while, I've always seen quite a bit, usually black but most of it flows and doesn't take much to clean it all out.

Never opened a pan that's not been cleaned in say 5 years thats not got it, I must be doing something wrong

John

[lucian]

I think the Harpers Outsider is a great option and well worth the price. They are very well made and will make your oil/filter changes so much quicker and easier. This could result in more timely changes and less sludge.  Win win !  I've had on on a LMIII for two years now and am very pleased with it. I am sure you could remove and sell it when you no longer need it and recover some of the costs.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Well it did sit for 2 years or better with same oil but still wonder about the design of an upside down filter to hold any would be contaminants.

The orientation of a filter has nothing to do with how it works.

[Gappy]

I think putting on the external oil filter system is not the best idea from a maintenance inspection point of view. The sump filter screen needs to be inspected and cleaned. The same with the oil pressure release valve. You can also look up into the cylinders and maybe get a peak on how they are fairing. You can also inspect for partially blocked oil passages god forbid. The oil pans are not the smoothest and have nooks and crannies that allow sludge to develop, you are going to get some using synthetic or Dino oil. You only need to change the filter every third oil change. Now this is something I do. I change my oil when the bike has been setting overnight and is cool, being most of the dirty oil has found its way down to the pan and has not been heated up and recirculated. I do not find much if any sludge when I pull the pan. I am with Dusty, the oil filter will work in any position.

[Bisbee]

The Colombo designed Ferrari V-12s had 2 upside down filters. Older 911s are horizontal. So, Guzzi is in good company. The most bizarre was JC Whitney in the 60s sold an oil filter kit for VW bugs that consisted of a roll of toilet paper as the filtering medium. It was billed as being easy and cheap to change.😀😀😀

[oldbike54]

The Colombo designed Ferrari V-12s had 2 upside down filters. Older 911s are horizontal. So, Guzzi is in good company. The most bizarre was JC Whitney in the 60s sold an oil filter kit for VW bugs that consisted of a roll of toilet paper as the filtering medium. It was billed as being easy and cheap to change.😀😀😀

 Still available for lots of applications , there was a guy riding one of those weird Excelsior-Henderson contraptions some years back that proudly showed us his toilet paper oil filter .

 Dusty

[inditx]

Good to know, thanks gents.
I too changed the oil cold but mostly cause the oil was old and didn’t want to ride it with dirty ol oil.
Still thinkin on the outsider....

[Two Checks]

Quote from: Gappy on Today at 06:44:43 AM

I think putting on the external oil filter system is not the best idea from a maintenance inspection point of view. The sump filter screen needs to be inspected and cleaned. The same with the oil pressure release valve. You can also look up into the cylinders and maybe get a peak on how they are fairing. You can also inspect for partially blocked oil passages god forbid. The oil pans are not the smoothest and have nooks and crannies that allow sludge to develop, you are going to get some using synthetic or Dino oil. You only need to change the filter every third oil change. Now this is something I do. I change my oil when the bike has been setting overnight and is cool, being most of the dirty oil has found its way down to the pan and has not been heated up and recirculated. I do not find much if any sludge when I pull the pan. I am with Dusty, the oil filter will work in any position.

So I imagine you are going to put the oil filter on your car in the oil pan so you can clean the oil pick up screen at every oil change.

[Sasquatch Jim]

The toilet paper filter is designed to clean the shit out of your oil

[TOMB]

 There are many vehicles on a road including motorcycles cars trucks boats actually the boats are in the water that have the filters mounted upside down in my case with the Toyota Tacoma truck that I have a version of the engine is the V6 in a 2nd generation and they have been known to go over 300,000 miles with an upside down oil filter change the oil when needed go for a ride and enjoy the bike

TOMB

[guzzisteve]

The oil filter does NOT take all the dirt(carbon) out of your oil. It only takes out the bigger particles, the real fine stuff is in there going around. Oil gets dirty after about 1500mi, I change mine at 2Kmi and filter every 10Kmi. Just cuz you use syn oil means nothing, it's still collecting dirt.

[inditx]

There are many vehicles on a road including motorcycles cars trucks boats actually there in the water that have the filters mounted upside down in my case with the Toyota Tacoma truck that I have a version of the engine is the V6 in a 2nd generation and they have been known to go over 300,000 miles with an upside down oil filter change the oil when needed go for a ride and enjoy the bike

TOMB

Thanks your “success” with higher mileage Guzzi’s is admirable.

[inditx]

The oil filter does NOT take all the dirt(carbon) out of your oil. It only takes out the bigger particles, the real fine stuff is in there going around. Oil gets dirty after about 1500mi, I change mine at 2Kmi and filter every 10Kmi. Just cuz you use syn oil means nothing, it's still collecting dirt.

Thanks makes sense to me, maybe I’ll just continue to change the oil by dropping the pan.

[Burkslaw]

I actually enjoy dropping the pan to change oil and filter. It is a very intimate, emotionally bonding experience when done with love and care.

[sib]

The toilet paper filter is designed to clean the shit out of your oil

And if you use scented toilet paper, your crankcase will as sweet as a flower.

[malik]

I actually enjoy dropping the pan to change oil and filter. It is a very intimate, emotionally bonding experience when done with love and care.

A cheap electric screwdriver removes the drudgery of the boring bit. Puts a whizz back into the exercise.

[Vagrant]

TP, wasn't that what Mercedes used back in the '50s before they figured out how to make $$$ on filters?

[acogoff]

TP, wasn't that what Mercedes used back in the '50s before they figured out how to make $$$ on filters?

     There was even an stc to run a toilet paper filter on the Franklin powered Stinsons and maybe others in the 70s. The only catch was that you had to use the special TP from the STC seller. No advantage in that so all the ones I knew of went in the scrap bin.
     An outside filter would be nice, but the stock Guzzi filter in the pan is what it is and is no problem. Change mine every 12K miles or 4th oil change. My thinking is that any more often and you just take the chance of introducing some dirt or debris into the system. But like everything oil related, it is a personal choice.

[lorazepam]

I <3 oil and filter threads.

[TOMB]

Also if you decide to keep the internal filter, your bike takes the longer filter compared to the shorter filter used in/on the T3 etc.

If yours is the the longer filter don't forget to use a radiator clamp on the filter.

Other posts cover the clamp

TOMB

[LowRyter]

The toilet paper filter is designed to clean the shit out of your oil

you win the thread.   

[Ncdan]

I think putting on the external oil filter system is not the best idea from a maintenance inspection point of view. The sump filter screen needs to be inspected and cleaned. The same with the oil pressure release valve. You can also look up into the cylinders and maybe get a peak on how they are fairing. You can also inspect for partially blocked oil passages god forbid. The oil pans are not the smoothest and have nooks and crannies that allow sludge to develop, you are going to get some using synthetic or Dino oil. You only need to change the filter every third oil change. Now this is something I do. I change my oil when the bike has been setting overnight and is cool, being most of the dirty oil has found its way down to the pan and has not been heated up and recirculated. I do not find much if any sludge when I pull the pan. I am with Dusty, the oil filter will work in any position.

Thanks for the information Gappy and what you said about only changing the oil filter every third oil change caught my interest as I have always wondered about that very issue. It sure is much quicker and easier for oil changes If one could eliminate the filter change. Is there any proven data or test available that would back up that theory or practice, if so could you post it please. I’d definitely be all for that practice as I’m conservative.....or maybe a little slack:)

[inditx]

And now after I changed the oil do I learn about the clamp and/or torquing the filter.....!

[MotoG5]

In times past when I had three big block Guzzis in the fleet I only changed the oil filters when the transmissions and rear drive boxes were due for service. Worked fine and was easy way to make sure it got done as the mileage ridden on each bike every year varied a lot.