V7 Stone valve cover bolt/horror story

[DonQuixote]

So here I was attempting to do a valve clearance check/adjustment on my '13 Stone. Pretty easy task except for the imbecile that previously worked on it. I'm not the original owner so I'm not sure if it was a mechanic or the owner that did this imaginable stupidity. He put Loctite on one bolt! Just on one bolt after he realized that he used Loctite instead of anti seize grease.
Long story short... I've had no luck with the hex key obviously...the hole got rounded quickly. Next I used a Dremel tool to make a cut into the bolt's head and attempt to loosen it up with a large flat screw driver. No dice. I sprayed some Blaster PB with the hope that some of it will make it on the threads. Hours later no progress. Sprayed some more and came back the next day. Same story...this bolt won't come loose!
Next step... Using an extractor (first drilling a hole with a left hand bit.)
Nothing! As a last resort and being quite positive that Loctite was used, I used a Bernzomatic butane torch to heat up the bolt and melt the glue. Did it for 1 minute....and nothing happened.
Did it for 2 minutes and still couldn't free the darn thing.
From what I understand 1 minute is sufficient to melt the Loctite or "shake" any rust on the threads.
I cannot imagine that there's any rust on this bolt, just on one bolt, but I'm pretty sure that there's Loctite. A ton of it! I'll give it another try tomorrow and if I have no luck take the bike to a shop and let them play with it.
Right now the only solution I see is to cut open the valve cover to have better access to the bolt so as to heat it up real good or... put a stick of dynamite next to it.

[lucky phil]

So here I was attempting to do a valve clearance check/adjustment on my '13 Stone. Pretty easy task except for the imbecile that previously worked on it. I'm not the original owner so I'm not sure if it was a mechanic or the owner that did this imaginable stupidity. He put Loctite on one bolt! Just on one bolt after he realized that he used Loctite instead of anti seize grease.
Long story short... I've had no luck with the hex key obviously...the hole got rounded quickly. Next I used a Dremel tool to make a cut into the bolt's head and attempt to loosen it up with a large flat screw driver. No dice. I sprayed some Blaster PB with the hope that some of it will make it on the threads. Hours later no progress. Sprayed some more and came back the next day. Same story...this bolt won't come loose!
Next step... Using an extractor (first drilling a hole with a left hand bit.)
Nothing! As a last resort and being quite positive that Loctite was used, I used a Bernzomatic butane torch to heat up the bolt and melt the glue. Did it for 1 minute....and nothing happened.
Did it for 2 minutes and still couldn't free the darn thing.
From what I understand 1 minute is sufficient to melt the Loctite or "shake" any rust on the threads.
I cannot imagine that there's any rust on this bolt, just on one bolt, but I'm pretty sure that there's Loctite. A ton of it! I'll give it another try tomorrow and if I have no luck take the bike to a shop and let them play with it.
Right now the only solution I see is to cut open the valve cover to have better access to the bolt so as to heat it up real good or... put a stick of dynamite next to it.

It depends what loctite was used. Blue "nut lock" is easy with a little heat or none. Red takes quite a bit to soften it as I've experienced with disassembly of throttle bodies. The issue with the unit you are using ( I have one) is it's not concentrated enough. You need a small tip on an oxy torch to direct the heat source right on the head of the bolt.

Ciao 

[Zoom Zoom]

If you use a Dremel and grind off the head, you should be able to get the valve cover off. Hopefully there's enough sticking up that you can get a small pair of vice grips on it and back it out. That along with some heat.

ZZ

[Dave Swanson]

I have spare bolts if you need them.  Just PM your address

[Kiwi_Roy]

Drill the head off, measure one of the other screws to figure out what size drill to use, perhaps start one or two sizes smaller and just drill down far enough to get through the head.

[Huzo]

So here I was attempting to do a valve clearance check/adjustment on my '13 Stone. Pretty easy task except for the imbecile that previously worked on it. I'm not the original owner so I'm not sure if it was a mechanic or the owner that did this imaginable stupidity. He put Loctite on one bolt! Just on one bolt after he realized that he used Loctite instead of anti seize grease.
Long story short... I've had no luck with the hex key obviously...the hole got rounded quickly. Next I used a Dremel tool to make a cut into the bolt's head and attempt to loosen it up with a large flat screw driver. No dice. I sprayed some Blaster PB with the hope that some of it will make it on the threads. Hours later no progress. Sprayed some more and came back the next day. Same story...this bolt won't come loose!
Next step... Using an extractor (first drilling a hole with a left hand bit.)
Nothing! As a last resort and being quite positive that Loctite was used, I used a Bernzomatic butane torch to heat up the bolt and melt the glue. Did it for 1 minute....and nothing happened.
Did it for 2 minutes and still couldn't free the darn thing.
From what I understand 1 minute is sufficient to melt the Loctite or "shake" any rust on the threads.
I cannot imagine that there's any rust on this bolt, just on one bolt, but I'm pretty sure that there's Loctite. A ton of it! I'll give it another try tomorrow and if I have no luck take the bike to a shop and let them play with it.
Right now the only solution I see is to cut open the valve cover to have better access to the bolt so as to heat it up real good or... put a stick of dynamite next to it.

Unimaginable stupidity..

[guzziownr]

Drill the head off, measure one of the other screws to figure out what size drill to use, perhaps start one or two sizes smaller and just drill down far enough to get through the head.

This. Also, use a reverse bit/left-handed bit. Harbor Freight has a set for $8. It might come right out before you get very deep.

[wirespokes]

Do a search for using alum to remove steel from aluminum.

[DonQuixote]

I did the ALL I could possibly do. Reverse bit/left hand drive...extractor +heat. With the extractor method it's getting to the point where the channel lock is slipping off the extractor bit after awhile. Any more force would probably cause the extractor to break. The heat method didn't work mainly I believe because the Bernzomatic's flame is not concentrated enough at it's tip.
It was suggested that I use a hand impact tool but that could damage the cylinder head. Best thing I think is to take the bike to the shop and have them grind off the head of the bolt and remove the cover...possible save it?
At any rate without the cover on its easy access to the rest of the bolt. Just wondering...what was he thinking?!
And if it was done by mistake why didn't he remove the bolt and clean it immediately?
I've got 6 new bolts from the dealer...it was all they got. AF 1 Racing had only 4. I only need 1 the rest are fine and were easy to remove but I wanted to replace all 8 (My cover has 4 outside bolts.)

[Rich A]

Depending on where the bolt is--and what equipment you have--you might be able to weld a little blob or piece of metal onto the head of offending bolt and then twist it off with vice grips. The heat from the welder would also help loosen it.

****DISCONNECT the ECU before doing this****

Rich A

[bodine99]

It's a 1 shot deal. I would try a TORX bit and drive it into the bolt head, heat the bolt and bit and 1/2'" air impact it out. Good luck!!

[DonQuixote]

I will post an update asap together with a photo of the offending bolt. It wasn't the bolt's fault although they are kinda soft but putting Loctite created a nightmare.
My plan is to have the mechanic/dealer deal with it.
They have the right tools and know how although perhaps this will be a first for them. The mechanic/dealer is a small outfit however the owner has 30 yrs. of experience and the mechanic 20 working on Guzzis.
This easy task turned into a horrible nightmare. Planned to do a valve check/adjustment + change the oil.
I let them do that also since I don't feel like playing around in close to 90 degree and high humidity weather. Especially on the street. Yes... No garage. And who knows? There might be Loctite on the oil bolts as well!
Oh...almost forgot. A new set of Conti tires also will be installed. With a request that plenty of Loctite should be smeared on the wheel hubs 

[malik]

I feel your pain. It doesn't help that the heads of those bolts are made from cheese, and round off far too easily. The last time I rounded one off, I took the bike for a half an hour ride, and it came out easier (but no locktite). I couldn't get hold of any of those stainless substitutes, so I had a local machine shop make some up - in nickel plate HT  - not cheap for the first run, but he still has the CAD files & says they'd be cheaper in quantity. Hopefully, this should prove to be an improvement.

I've found the expert extractors prefer to attack unmolested reluctant bolts, so nowadays I take the the offending piece along to them earlier in the process rather than later.

One question - where on the hubs would one use locktite? I've only ever used that stuff on the rotor bolts.

[Zoom Zoom]

One question - where on the hubs would one use locktite? I've only ever used that stuff on the rotor bolts.

I'll jump out on a limb here. I believe that comment was made in jest.

John Henry

[SmithSwede]

It's a 1 shot deal. I would try a TORX bit and drive it into the bolt head, heat the bolt and bit and 1/2'" air impact it out. Good luck!!

Yes.   I’ve had good luck pounding in a TORX bit. 

[reidy]

You may have had success. If so disregard this. If not I would put all of the other bolts back in and go for a spirited ride. This achieves two things. The first is things always seem better after a good ride. The second is the engine gets nice and warm.

The moment you get home crab a torq tip that you have propositioned of the right size and hammer it into the rounded out screw head. Now try and undo the screw. At engine operating temperature the locktite should have half the holding power.

The other advantage is that all of the other bolts are in so the least amount of force should be on the one you are about to remove.

Steve 

[DonQuixote]

Yes Steve this sounds like a good idea. But it would have to wait another week or so... Why? Hmmm...this bolt situation it seems that never ends. A few days ago while doing a few other things on the bike (installing a Mosfet voltage regulator) I wanted to address another issue that being that the left side grab bar on my '13 had a bit of a play every time I was engaging the center stand. Easier said than done. I tried to tighten said bolt...bolt that also holds the shock absorber. The darn thing snapped! I suspect that this bolt was already damaged and I'm glad that it broke while the bike was stationed and me not riding it. Turns out it has Loctite 324 (blue) or it should have based on the service manual. At any rate I didn't place too much force but it snapped nevertheless. Got new bolt...placed a left hand drill bit...and an easy out extractor. Nothing! Even after heating the bolt for a good 2 minutes with a Bernzomatic! I believe that previous owner used red Loctite on it. Wonderful. So I ordered a Helicoil kit and it should arrive within a week or so. I'm having to drill this bolt out and re-thread the hole. Meantime I cannot ride the bike to warm it up good and address the cover bolt issue. Perhaps this helps anyone that purchased a used bike. Becareful with everything because there's no telling what the previous owner did even with the most simple things such as bolts. In this case I remember telling him when I inspected the bike to address the play in the grab bar. And he did. But what he did is a mystery.

[Zoom Zoom]

Valve cover bolts. oil pan bolts, shock mount bolts. I have always used anti seize on mine. NEVER have I had any of those come loose on their own.

(I realize that doesn't help with the current situation. Maybe it will help someone in the future.)

John Henry

[Kev m]

You guys are reminding me why I swore off used vehicles many years ago.

Exceptions will be made I'm sure but as cautiously as possible.

[Dirk_S]

I’m curious/wondering/hypothesizing that perhaps neither of your stuck bolts were thread-locked, but became seized for different reasons:

1) shock mount screw: I recently created a situation where the shock mount screw (not original, longer than factory in order to fit pannier racks) became seized, and I had no option but to drill out with a left-handed bit and re-thread with a Heli-coil. The sucker was TIGHT, and I suspect that it was due to bad thread alignment on my part. All’s well so far with the Heli-Coil.

2) valve cover bolts: perhaps the bolt seized simply because it didn’t have enough anti-seize? Aluminum head + steel bolts = 1 in 4 chance of corroded seizure?

I’m not saying thread lock isn’t the problem, but just that seized bolts can happen various ways.

[jwinwi]

FWIW, a MAPP gas torch has gotten me out of similar situations; much hotter than propane. 

[DonQuixote]

1. Anything is possible as far as the bolts are concerned.
But I did everything including applying heat.
For the bolt securing the rear shock absorber the manual indicates that Loctite 342 should be used (blue). Perhaps the previous owner took the bolt out and reinstalled it wrong.
2. I swore out used cars a few years ago also.
However I've purchased a used bike thinking... What could go wrong with a fairly simple Stone that is only a few yrs old? Answer: BOLTS

[wirespokes]

I know it seems like it had to be red loctite for it to stick so badly, but I doubt that's the case. It's really common for newby mechanics to over-torque fasteners, especially those into aluminum.