Author Topic: BMW question, NGC  (Read 6894 times)

Offline mobiker

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2020, 09:07:18 PM »
I need to make this correction, Dusty was right this bike is a R1100R BMW.
Ah, ok, I'm less interested now. Still, it sounds like a decently good buy and there is nothing wrong with the 1100. Its just not a '95 R100R.
Mike

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2020, 11:05:00 PM »
Ah, ok, I'm less interested now. Still, it sounds like a decently good buy and there is nothing wrong with the 1100. Its just not a '95 R100R.
I have little to know knowledge about these bmw bikes, so what’s the difference between a r100r and a R1000r, same year,1995?

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2020, 11:11:12 PM »



Ok guys the picture Gods has awaken. Here’s the 95 R1000r BMW that I’m going to look at.
Bad, good or indifferent????
« Last Edit: June 23, 2020, 11:12:59 PM by Ncdan »

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2020, 12:18:25 AM »
It's an R1100R. The R at the end means it's a naked bike. They're not bad bikes, but rather homely. I'd be way more interested in the R100R for $2K - what a deal! About 15 years ago I rode my R100R across the country to VT and back. It's one of the best handling airheads ever with none of the flexing others are known for. With 40mm forks, dual 4 pot Brembos and the paralever rear end it handles amazingly well.

But the R11 - you're talking FI, complex electronics and a bike that's 25 years old. I don't think the demand for those is very high, so $2K might be about the max they go for on the open market.

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2020, 08:25:15 AM »
It's an R1100R. The R at the end means it's a naked bike. They're not bad bikes, but rather homely. I'd be way more interested in the R100R for $2K - what a deal! About 15 years ago I rode my R100R across the country to VT and back. It's one of the best handling airheads ever with none of the flexing others are known for. With 40mm forks, dual 4 pot Brembos and the paralever rear end it handles amazingly well.

But the R11 - you're talking FI, complex electronics and a bike that's 25 years old. I don't think the demand for those is very high, so $2K might be about the max they go for on the open market.
Thanks for the well thought out and factual response Sir.

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2020, 08:59:34 AM »
 I put probably 250,000 miles on airheads , everything from /5's to an '84 R100 RT , and they were fine machines . However , the idea that a last year ('95) airhead is a superior motorbike to an early oilhead is silly . The oilhead is faster , has better brakes , the handling is so much better the two bikes almost can't be compared , and suspension quality is light years ahead . The idea that airheads were trouble free is ludicrous , the post '84 models had transmission problems because of the circlip issue , there were problems with valve heads breaking off the stem and valve springs cracked . Were they simpler than an oilhead , yes , but try repairing a bean can ignition system , or locate a good set of points now for an earlier model .

 Sorry , I loved my airheads , all 4 of them , but even with the problems some oilheads had , they are still functionally superior to an airhead .

 Dusty

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2020, 09:24:22 AM »
I put probably 250,000 miles on airheads , everything from /5's to an '84 R100 RT , and they were fine machines . However , the idea that a last year ('95) airhead is a superior motorbike to an early oilhead is silly . The oilhead is faster , has better brakes , the handling is so much better the two bikes almost can't be compared , and suspension quality is light years ahead . The idea that airheads were trouble free is ludicrous , the post '84 models had transmission problems because of the circlip issue , there were problems with valve heads breaking off the stem and valve springs cracked . Were they simpler than an oilhead , yes , but try repairing a bean can ignition system , or locate a good set of points now for an earlier model .

 Sorry , I loved my airheads , all 4 of them , but even with the problems some oilheads had , they are still functionally superior to an airhead .

 Dusty
Voice of experience, thanks Dusty. I plan to go check her out ASAP👍

Offline bodine99

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2020, 09:27:12 AM »
Do not see how you can go wrong knowing the history and service records for that $$$  :thumb:

Offline kirby1923

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2020, 09:27:48 AM »
I've had both as well and the oil head is superior. Four valve heads and oil coolers and electronics  as dirt simple as it gets. With a manual and a good digital meter can be easily maintained.

Good price w/ known history, a winner.

:-)
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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2020, 09:55:29 AM »
TO ME, the lack of interest when I found it was an Oilhead and not an Airhead was NOT because which was technically "superior" it was because they ARE different things.

IF I wanted what was technically superior, I wouldn't go for a 25 y/o bike, I'd get a NEW ONE. An R9T probably, or maybe MAYBE an R1200R.

But IF I wanted to get a 25 year old BMW, then I'd RATHER have an Airhead, especially one of the very last ones, cause it's cool, and the newest of the oldest if you will.

I probably don't WANT either really, cause if I did, then I'd have one.

And I don't want either more than I want what we currently have.
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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2020, 10:41:30 AM »
 Meh , cool is wonderful , but maybe the concept is age dependent . A mid 90's airhead just isn't all that cool to an old guy , if cool is the deciding factor then find an R51 , or a '55 model R50 . There is zero difference on the cool scale between a mid '90's airhead or a mid '90's oilhead .

 Dusty

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2020, 10:52:12 AM »
Cool is in the eyes of the beholder I figure. Cool in this case is 2000 bucks that KBB says the trade in value is significantly higher. You know, like money in the bank with interest 👍 besides the 7800 I got for the 1400 is just sitting and waiting for that special goose. Besides I just bored and looking for an adventure to get into, lol😂🤣🤔
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 07:53:50 PM by Ncdan »

Offline ohiorider

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2020, 10:58:11 AM »
I owned a couple of oilhead bikes.  The '95 R1100RS was slightly glitchy in traffic due to fueling issues.  My second and last oilhead was a 2004 1100 (1150?) Rockster, with factory dual plug heads, ran strong from low to top rpm, and fueled very well.  No ABS.  Loved this oilhead.  The 1995 initially disappointed me simply because I expected it to be a better Type 247 engine.

I've been on my R100GS for 29 years, 160,000 miles, love it, and have often considered going on a search for a 1995 model of the R100R.




            THEN ...............

On a rental R100R Mystic in Novato CA Nov/Dec 1995.  3-4 day ride, from Dubbelju Rentals, San Francisco CA.
South to Ventura from SF (NOT on 'the 5!') then North to Novato.  Beautiful ride!





............ 14 YEARS LATER .... @ 118,000 miles
My bike, not a rental.  NE Ohio to N Utah/S Wyoming, then back to Cleveland OH.
......................................Sierra Nevadas in background
« Last Edit: June 25, 2020, 10:38:44 AM by ohiorider »
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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2020, 12:01:55 PM »
Meh , cool is wonderful , but maybe the concept is age dependent . A mid 90's airhead just isn't all that cool to an old guy , if cool is the deciding factor then find an R51 , or a '55 model R50 . There is zero difference on the cool scale between a mid '90's airhead or a mid '90's oilhead .

 Dusty

No, an R51 or R50 is useless in my book. The R100 would still be practical enough for every day duty, but cool enough to me.

I'm not looking for a TRUE antique. NOOOOO THANKS.

But again, that's why I don't have the R100 either... cause the V7 is just plain better for me.
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Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2020, 12:14:14 PM »
An Oilhead BMW ranks down near the very bottom of my desirability list, an Airhead ranks somewhere around the middle. ;-)
 
Charlie

Offline LongRanger

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2020, 01:47:48 PM »
The R1100R you’re looking at was also available in a sleeved-down version, the R850R. I traded my K75 for one. The engineering was vastly superior IMO to my K75 (better suspension, more torque, smoother gearbox, better rear end) and handled quite confidently with its Telelever front end, though it wasn’t as attractive. $2k for a clean R1100R is a good buy where I live. The bike is simple to maintain and should be quite reliable. ABS was an option on these bikes. I’d have another R850R if I had the room.
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Offline ohiorider

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2020, 03:34:32 PM »
The R1100R you’re looking at was also available in a sleeved-down version, the R850R. I traded my K75 for one. The engineering was vastly superior IMO to my K75 (better suspension, more torque, smoother gearbox, better rear end) and handled quite confidently with its Telelever front end, though it wasn’t as attractive. $2k for a clean R1100R is a good buy where I live. The bike is simple to maintain and should be quite reliable. ABS was an option on these bikes. I’d have another R850R if I had the room.
Understood!  I rented  one in CA  ........  in a way like the old smaller displacement airheads  ...... smoother.

Bob
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Offline mobiker

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2020, 04:40:25 PM »
I have little to know knowledge about these bmw bikes, so what’s the difference between a r100r and a R1000r, same year,1995?
Its a completely different motorcycle. Frame, drivetrain, everything. For example say you thought a guy had a Calvin at a really good price, but then you found out it's a 1400. The 1400 is probably much more advanced, and to some people "better", but its not an air cooled big block.

The 1100's are known as oilheads. They're fine motorcycles, but if I wanted one, I could find one closer for not much more money. A $2000 R100R with records and in good running condition? Not so much.



Mike

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Offline mobiker

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2020, 04:41:48 PM »
I put probably 250,000 miles on airheads , everything from /5's to an '84 R100 RT , and they were fine machines . However , the idea that a last year ('95) airhead is a superior motorbike to an early oilhead is silly . The oilhead is faster , has better brakes , the handling is so much better the two bikes almost can't be compared , and suspension quality is light years ahead . The idea that airheads were trouble free is ludicrous , the post '84 models had transmission problems because of the circlip issue , there were problems with valve heads breaking off the stem and valve springs cracked . Were they simpler than an oilhead , yes , but try repairing a bean can ignition system , or locate a good set of points now for an earlier model .

 Sorry , I loved my airheads , all 4 of them , but even with the problems some oilheads had , they are still functionally superior to an airhead .

 Dusty

Wait.....what? This from a Guzzi rider??  :grin:
Mike

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Offline timonbik

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2020, 05:08:39 PM »
The R1100R you’re looking at was also available in a sleeved-down version, the R850R. I traded my K75 for one. The engineering was vastly superior IMO to my K75 (better suspension, more torque, smoother gearbox, better rear end) and handled quite confidently with its Telelever front end, though it wasn’t as attractive. $2k for a clean R1100R is a good buy where I live. The bike is simple to maintain and should be quite reliable. ABS was an option on these bikes. I’d have another R850R if I had the room.
ABS, that is the achillies heel of many of the oilheads.   Some models with the servo pump extremely expensive to maintain and repair.  Even the non pump models can be problematic!!!
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Offline ohiorider

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2020, 09:00:14 PM »
Meh , cool is wonderful , but maybe the concept is age dependent . A mid 90's airhead just isn't all that cool to an old guy , if cool is the deciding factor then find an R51 , or a '55 model R50 . There is zero difference on the cool scale between a mid '90's airhead or a mid '90's oilhead .

 Dusty
You're not old enough.  :laugh: !!

Bob
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 10:08:56 PM by ohiorider »
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
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Offline tommy2cyl

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2020, 09:21:53 PM »
I had one of these.  I wanted a classic looking BMW with black paint/white pin striping.  Bought a new one.   Only motorcycle purchase I ever regretted.  My experience:  Took drained oil after first oil change to an Advanced Auto Parts store to dispose.  Manager asked if it was only oil and I said it was.  He removed the cap of the container, smelled the oil, and said he couldn't accept it because it had gas in it.  I said, nope, only oil, just did the oil change into a fresh container.  He said, smell it.  Yup, strong gas smell in the oil.  Problem #2: The bike would be in first gear at a stop, I would accelerate away and it would just pop into neutral.  A variation of this is that I would be at a stop, click down into first gear, neutral light out, let the clutch out to motor away and it would be in a false neutral.  Both dangerous.  Three of my friends who were long term BMW owner's said that the trans would get better with more miles.  I took it back to the dealer and had their mechanic take it out.  He told me before he took it out that "they all do it."  Hmmm?.  When he came back in after the test ride he was laughing in his helmet.  He said, and I quote, word for word, " I don't know how to tell you this, but this is a good one."  I kept the bike for a little while longer and it popped out of gear one more time motoring away from an intersection and a car behind about tagged me in the rear when I bogged down.  That was it. Coulda had a lemon. it happens. Who knows. I moved on. My one and only BMW.

Offline LongRanger

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #52 on: June 24, 2020, 10:10:56 PM »
ABS, that is the achillies heel of many of the oilheads.   Some models with the servo pump extremely expensive to maintain and repair.  Even the non pump models can be problematic!!!
The R1100R doesn’t have the servo-assist brakes, but the next generation model, the R1150R, did. They were fine unless you neglected regular maintenance (fluid changes), in which you’re correct, they were expensive to repair. The servo assist provided strong braking as long as the ignition was on, but was a bit inept when the bike was off. I could live with them but am glad BMW dropped them on its later models.
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Offline exiledrebel

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2020, 10:40:59 PM »
I'd buy it, no question. I have a 73 R75 and previously owned an R1150. There's absolutely no comparison between an airhead and an oilhead. The oilhead is much, much more modern and capable. I didn't care for the ABS "whizzy" brakes on my R1150 due to them being rather abrupt in operation, at least to my taste. The R1100 will have a fantastic ride/handling balance, at least in my experience. I loved it for that.

Maintenance is pretty simple and the bikes are quite reliable. Mine had been sitting several years when I bought it and a gearbox seal failed, fouling the clutch and requiring replacement. It wasn't difficult, but time-consuming, like it would be on a Guzzi. If I had room, I'd have an oilhead in the garage again.

Offline Tusayan

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #54 on: June 24, 2020, 11:08:06 PM »
An early R1100R is essentially valueless, a throw away bike in 2020 and forever. 

If it were an R100R, it’s the model that a fairly substantial group of buyers think is the peak of BMWs designs... so would be worth something for a long time to come.  A totally different animal.

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #55 on: June 24, 2020, 11:54:47 PM »
An early R1100R is essentially valueless, a throw away bike in 2020 and forever. 

If it were an R100R, it’s the model that a fairly substantial group of buyers think is the peak of BMWs designs... so would be worth something for a long time to come.  A totally different animal.

 I remember in the late 70's early 80's when the old beemer guys said the same thing about the 247 design , they are all junk , the  roller bearing engines were better , blah blah blah woof woof .

 Dusty

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #56 on: June 25, 2020, 12:48:27 AM »
I like the R1100R, and I came close to buying one new in 96 instead of my RK.

I test rode one and told my now long time ex that it did everything better than the RK. It went better, turned better, stopped better. Any then I hesitated. She looked me in the eye and said "but it doesn't get your D£€€® hard, does it?" followed by "then buy the RK" so I did.

Not two years later I was expecting a nice extra paycheck for the Chilton Motorcycle Handbook and I had just heard the heartbeat if my first kid so I celebrated by running out and buying an almost new (< 2k mile) 96 R1100RSa. It was a fantastic bike. But after about 40k miles I had to admit that it wasn't for me. That's not the fault of the bike. It was quick (er than I needed), handled great, pretty comfortable etc. But it still didn't capture my heart like my airheads did before it or my RK's have, or my V7's have etc.

Sometimes it's just the heart, not the head.

Who am I fooling, not sometimes.... ALL the time (or maybe it should be).
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Online wirespokes

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #57 on: June 25, 2020, 08:26:08 AM »
I can relate to where you're coming from, Kev.

Yes, the R1100 does everything better - stop, go, suspension, power - but in the end, the newer bikes didn't grab me. I like the way the older ones look and feel. I don't like the buzzing of the high pressure fuel pump and the way the bikes feel top heavy. I found that I prefer the feel of normal front shocks rather than the telelever. The oil heads went to a cheaper aluminum alloy (easier to cast) that needs to be painted otherwise they corrode away like the Japanese bikes.

In the end, the airheads do everything well enough for real world use. The oilheads have an edge, but it's not that great. Even though airheads aren't much slower, I think it still applies that it's more fun riding a slow bike fast.

I thought the first R1100 was pretty ugly and wasn't turned on at all by them. For about the same money you could get a little newer RS. I thought the 1150R wasn't a bad looking bike and wanted one with wire wheels. All of them can be had pretty cheaply these days.

Offline larrys

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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #58 on: June 25, 2020, 08:47:35 AM »
Traditional telescopics on this one, no?
Good bikes and that seems like a very nice price.  Bear in mind, Roper says that the exhaust sounds like a parson farting in a bathtub.  And, as a BMW airhead owner and fan I'm confident in saying that they are not very exciting and don't handle particularly well.  But I like them anyway!  :)

Back in the day I put a couple of Luftmeister 2 into 1 headers on airheads. They sounded sweet!
Larry
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Re: BMW question, NGC
« Reply #59 on: June 25, 2020, 09:01:29 AM »
I can relate to where you're coming from, Kev.

Yes, the R1100 does everything better - stop, go, suspension, power - but in the end, the newer bikes didn't grab me. I like the way the older ones look and feel. I don't like the buzzing of the high pressure fuel pump and the way the bikes feel top heavy. I found that I prefer the feel of normal front shocks rather than the telelever. The oil heads went to a cheaper aluminum alloy (easier to cast) that needs to be painted otherwise they corrode away like the Japanese bikes.

In the end, the airheads do everything well enough for real world use. The oilheads have an edge, but it's not that great. Even though airheads aren't much slower, I think it still applies that it's more fun riding a slow bike fast.

I thought the first R1100 was pretty ugly and wasn't turned on at all by them. For about the same money you could get a little newer RS. I thought the 1150R wasn't a bad looking bike and wanted one with wire wheels. All of them can be had pretty cheaply these days.

Yup!

People call it a lot of things, character, soul, imperfections fine.

Any I know some think that makes us crazy because they value the greater performance and function more. I understand that and don't fault then for it.

We all find our own balance with that sort of thing.

Guzzis in general are a sweet spot between form/feel and function. But even Guzzis vary on that scale from V11 Sports or Grisos to Tonti Calis. From Cali 1400's to smallblocks.

We are all just looking for our sweet spots.

And many have more than one.

I KNOW I could happily own another Oilhead. I also know I'd probably be more happy with an airhead and happier still with my smallblocks.

Which is why I am where I am....
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