The princess and the pea

[JohninVT]

I have issues(obviously).  My love/hate relationship with Guzzi swung solidly towards the hate side at the end of my California 1400 ownership and I popped for a Ducati Scrambler Street Classic as a palette cleanser.  I can’t seem to find THE bike so I’ve resigned myself to the fact I’ll eventually try ALL the bikes...one at a time.  I used to have 5 or 6 at a time but I don’t have the space anymore.  Anywho...the Ducati.  All hipster marketing BS aside, it’s a pretty interesting machine.  It’s ugly and plastic-y but the Street Classic weighs 410lbs ready to ride.  The handlebars are really wide so it feels even lighter when you start throwing it around on a curvy road.  The engine is lovely.  It sounds like crap but it’s flexible and peppy without being even remotely scary.  You can get everything it’s got, feel like you’re going pretty fast but not get in over Your head.  It’s nice.  The tank range sucks and the suspension is a g*ddamned travesty.  I take my watch off when I ride it because Holding the handlebars on a rough road is like running a jackhammer.  I’m convinced either the bracelet will break or the mainspring will tangle.  So, why am I blathering about a Ducati on a Guzzi forum?

Because(yes, I know you’re not supposed to start a sentence with “because”) almost everything I find lacking in the Ducati wouldn’t have been an issue if I had bought the V7II Scrambler I had my eye on when I was bike shopping last year.  Tank range?  Pshaw.  The V7 has an amazing tank range.  Plastic?  Not much on the Guzzi.  Suspension?  Ok, the Guzzi definitely isn’t great but it’s better than the Ducati.  The Guzzi seat is, well, it’s a seat while the Ducati has something that looks like a seat but is actually a device designed to cause your prostate to swell.  You can mount bags on a V7 and haul stuff.  The design of the Ducati subframe means brackets hang from under the subframe, which applies all the load to two bolts.  Not good. 

Basically, I think the V7 is a Motorcycle(capitalized on porpoise) while the Duc is a bit of a toy.  Meat and potatoes versus cake with frosting.  I don’t exactly regret my purchase.  The Ducati was nearly $3,000 less than say..a Milano.  Sometimes it does come down to money because you’re curious and being able to flip it without taking a hit allows you to experience ownership pain free(except for the swollen prostate).  However, the more bikes I ride the more I am coming to appreciate the simple honesty of the V7 Stone and Special.  I think they’re really nice bikes.  I also think Guzzi needs to stop with the matte crap and go back to beautiful paint and chrome like the V7II. 

To summarize:
Man buys Ducati
Man reviews Ducati
In Ducati review man decides a Moto Guzzi is a very fine thing

Thank you.  Please drive through.

[blu guzz]

I think you sum it up well MG vs. Other Bikes.  You have your plastic fanstastics with water cooling and all the bells and whistles or, you have a simple machine.  Maybe that is why they named it "Stone" as in stone simple?

[Lannis]

What you've mentioned are just the kind of things that makes most of us like one bike and not like another.

Drives the designers and marketing people crazy, because there's not much there to "quantify".   What seems like it wouldn't be a big deal to a design/market team turns out to be a determining factor in how we spend our money.

"Princess and the pea" for sure!

Lannis

[Aaron D.]

I like your posts. And I do have to point out that you pretty much knew this before. Was it really anger at Guzzi that made you pick the Ducati?

[Dave Swanson]

When is the V7 coming?   

[Diploman]

I appreciate your articulate and insightful comparison of the Ducati Scrambler and the V7.  A nicely useful review.  I think you nailed it with the observation that the V7's appeal is built around "honest simplicity" rather than the Duc's plastic/fantastic character.  The V7 does not pretend to be the fastest, quickest, most comfortable, most radically styled or most versatile bike in its class:  but it does a lot of things well, is beautiful for many to behold and has a temperate retro character that is not keyed to the latest styling trend.  I've found that Guzzi wears well as a long-term partner: the longer I own my bike, the more trips she and I take together, the deeper grows my affection for this unpretentious, faithfully serving machine.  The Thinking Man's Two-Wheeled Companion.  Not for Squids. 

[Ncdan]

Good to hear from you John snd I hope all is well with the daughter.
I think you are spot on in your Analysis and that’s where I’m at now. After I sold the 1400 tourer last month I’ve put myself on stand by and not rushing out to just throw money on just any bike. I do not intend to go back with as heavy a ride as the 1400 and do not want the latest technology either. I’m looking for the perfect, perfect for me anyhow, older guzzi that lacks much of the newer technology. Right now I’m focused toward the years 2000-2004 EV‘s as I don’t care much for the European style ridding.
Anyhow, good to rear from you!

[JohninVT]

I like your posts. And I do have to point out that you pretty much knew this before. Was it really anger at Guzzi that made you pick the Ducati?

You're right, I definitely did know.  With two of the 5 Guzzi's I've owned I have become disillusioned enough to try something very different right afterwards.  I don't think I could have one "forever bike"(or even one brand) and not also have other motorcycles and since I am sticking to one bike at a time, I'm resigned to the fact I'll flip back and forth while enjoying the variety.

The 1400 had abrupt fueling right where I rode around town.  The 1400 had a rear tire that was too wide and suspension that didn't have enough travel.  Most importantly in my decision to get something wildly different was that I decided a 750lb motorcycle isn't for me.  The ergonomics were also not to my liking.  I still think the 1400 engine, if properly tuned, is an absolutely incredible lump.  I'm still happy that I bought it and gave it a solid run and since I bought it for a song I ended up selling it for almost exactly what I paid after riding it for a couple years.  I wasn't angry so much as really disappointed that the bike's obvious potential wasn't met due to the marketing decisions and the fundamental kind of bike it was...a cruiser.  Lots of people love the 1400's as is and I can understand why(if you're into them). 

Don't get me wrong, the Scrambler is much more substantial than the stupid hipster marketing might lead you to believe.  It's really fun if you take a particular kind of ride, on a particular day and ride it in a particular way.  Just don't ride it two up.  I took my daughter for a 250 mile ride a couple weeks ago and didn't want to touch the bike for a week afterwards.  I weigh 180.  She weighs 115.  There wasn't enough room on the seat for both of us and every inch that was available hurt my ass after 100 miles.         

[Idontwantapickle]

I have issues(obviously).  My love/hate relationship with Guzzi swung solidly towards the hate side at the end of my California 1400 ownership and I popped for a Ducati Scrambler Street Classic as a palette cleanser.  I can’t seem to find THE bike so I’ve resigned myself to the fact I’ll eventually try ALL the bikes...one at a time.  I used to have 5 or 6 at a time but I don’t have the space anymore.  Anywho...the Ducati.  All hipster marketing BS aside, it’s a pretty interesting machine.  It’s ugly and plastic-y but the Street Classic weighs 410lbs ready to ride.  The handlebars are really wide so it feels even lighter when you start throwing it around on a curvy road.  The engine is lovely.  It sounds like crap but it’s flexible and peppy without being even remotely scary.  You can get everything it’s got, feel like you’re going pretty fast but not get in over Your head.  It’s nice.  The tank range sucks and the suspension is a g*ddamned travesty.  I take my watch off when I ride it because Holding the handlebars on a rough road is like running a jackhammer.  I’m convinced either the bracelet will break or the mainspring will tangle.  So, why am I blathering about a Ducati on a Guzzi forum?

Because(yes, I know you’re not supposed to start a sentence with “because”) almost everything I find lacking in the Ducati wouldn’t have been an issue if I had bought the V7II Scrambler I had my eye on when I was bike shopping last year.  Tank range?  Pshaw.  The V7 has an amazing tank range.  Plastic?  Not much on the Guzzi.  Suspension?  Ok, the Guzzi definitely isn’t great but it’s better than the Ducati.  The Guzzi seat is, well, it’s a seat while the Ducati has something that looks like a seat but is actually a device designed to cause your prostate to swell.  You can mount bags on a V7 and haul stuff.  The design of the Ducati subframe means brackets hang from under the subframe, which applies all the load to two bolts.  Not good. 

Basically, I think the V7 is a Motorcycle(capitalized on porpoise) while the Duc is a bit of a toy.  Meat and potatoes versus cake with frosting.  I don’t exactly regret my purchase.  The Ducati was nearly $3,000 less than say..a Milano.  Sometimes it does come down to money because you’re curious and being able to flip it without taking a hit allows you to experience ownership pain free(except for the swollen prostate).  However, the more bikes I ride the more I am coming to appreciate the simple honesty of the V7 Stone and Special.  I think they’re really nice bikes.  I also think Guzzi needs to stop with the matte crap and go back to beautiful paint and chrome like the V7II. 

To summarize:
Man buys Ducati
Man reviews Ducati
In Ducati review man decides a Moto Guzzi is a very fine thing

Thank you.  Please drive through.

You have described an understanding akin to the difference between people who just drink wine or whiskey and people who can appreciate what made it wine or whiskey.

[LowRyter]

Quite the opposite experience I've had with my Ducati 939 SS. 

Most comfy seat and best suspension of any bike I've owned.  Best handling bike, best brakes, 450lb gassed with 110HP.  My legs get a little folded but not as much as my V11 Sport and the SS is the most comfortable bike I own.  Range is about 125 when I get a prompt and about another 25 miles reserve.   So far as the styling, it's prettiest new bike out there but not as pretty as my Sport.  Lots of bells and whistles on the dashboard.  Has factory bags.  They call it touring sport bike.  It's been reliable with 13k miles.

Nicks are buzzy mirrors and notchy clutch gearbox when cold. Eats OEM tires, but changing brand.  I could use a little more legroom.

[JohninVT]

Quite the opposite experience I've had with my Ducati 939 SS. 

Most comfy seat and best suspension of any bike I've owned.  Best handling bike, best brakes, 450lb gassed with 110HP.  My legs get a little folded but not as much as my V11 Sport and the SS is the most comfortable bike I own.  Range is about 125 when I get a prompt and about another 25 miles reserve.   So far as the styling, it's prettiest new bike out there but not as pretty as my Sport.  Lots of bells and whistles on the dashboard.  Has factory bags.  They call it touring sport bike.  It's been reliable with 13k miles.

Nicks are buzzy mirrors and notchy clutch gearbox when cold. Eats OEM tires, but changing brand.  I could use a little more legroom.

Funny story....

I love the SuperSport.  Seacoast Sport Cycle offered me one at a stupid low price and I started the purchase process.  Then I saw they had a leftover Street Classic for $6800.  I was like a raccoon seeing something shiny and next thing I knew I was riding the Scrambler home.  I think the SS is a motorcycle for adults who like sportbikes.  Super competent and they're beautiful.  However, I love gravel roads and while I was lured in by the SS, I ended up buying the Scrambler.  I'll definitely have a SS some day.     

[Aaron D.]

Post again when it's time for a Himalayan!

[Muzz]

You have described an understanding akin to the difference between people who just drink wine or whiskey and people who can appreciate what made it wine or whiskey.

You put an "e" in whisky!

[Muzz]

An intriguing and interesting post John.

Probably sums up why I still have my '03 Breva.  Even with a semi detached hamstring I can still do a 500km trip without too much effort aching.

Does everything I want it to.

[LowRyter]

Funny story....

I love the SuperSport.  Seacoast Sport Cycle offered me one at a stupid low price and I started the purchase process.  Then I saw they had a leftover Street Classic for $6800.  I was like a raccoon seeing something shiny and next thing I knew I was riding the Scrambler home.  I think the SS is a motorcycle for adults who like sportbikes.  Super competent and they're beautiful.  However, I love gravel roads and while I was lured in by the SS, I ended up buying the Scrambler.  I'll definitely have a SS some day.     

I remember some of this the first time when you bought the Scrambler.  BTW- they make several versions of the Scrambler series and have some 1100 models.  I'm sure they make some with upgraded suspensions. 

Did you consider the 950 Multi Strada?

[Kev m]

I wouldn't have a Ducati in the garage anymore if not for the fact that Jenn loves it and probably always will.

So as long as we do have it I take the opportunity to ride it now and again.

It's always the same thing.

I start out grinning and laughing and nodding as I understand what she loves about it.

I toss it around for 40-50 miles and really enjoy.

As the ride goes on I get more and more uncomfortable.

I keep going because the bike needs a little workout anyway if I've taken the time to ride it.

By 75 miles I'm still tossing it around, but I'm not grinning as much. It's not just a little discomfort in the riding position, that's easy enough to overlook, it's something else.

As the ride goes on not every moment is tossing it back and forth, there are lots of moments connecting the tossing together and the shine wears off during them.

The motor shines going up and down the rev range and the chassis shines in hard braking and aggressive corners. It starts to feel dull and monotonous on the straights, especially if you're not risking your whole license.

So by 100+ miles I pull into the garage thinking how much more I enjoy the V7.

Yeah the V7 isn't as sharp a tool at aggressive moments, but it's plain more fun and interesting the rest of the time, hell maybe all the time.

YMMV, and it's a personal thing, but that's where I find the joy in my, uh actually both our, V7s.

So in the end I'm glad I have a Duc to keep that in perspective.

[Ncdan]

I wouldn't have a Ducati in the garage anymore if not for the fact that Jenn loves it and probably always will.

So as long as we do have it I take the opportunity to ride it now and again.

It's always the same thing.

I start out grinning and laughing and nodding as I understand what she loves about it.

I toss it around for 40-50 miles and really enjoy.

As the ride goes on I get more and more uncomfortable.

I keep going because the bike needs a little workout anyway if I've taken the time to ride it.

By 75 miles I'm still tossing it around, but I'm not grinning as much. It's not just a little discomfort in the riding position, that's easy enough to overlook, it's something else.

As the ride goes on not every moment is tossing it back and forth, there are lots of moments connecting the tossing together and the shine wears off during them.

The motor shines going up and down the rev range and the chassis shines in hard braking and aggressive corners. It starts to feel dull and monotonous on the straights, especially if you're not risking your whole license.

So by 100+ miles I pull into the garage thinking how much more I enjoy the V7.

Yeah the V7 isn't as sharp a tool at aggressive moments, but it's plain more fun and interesting the rest of the time, hell maybe all the time.

YMMV, and it's a personal thing, but that's where I find the joy in my, uh actually both our, V7s.

So in the end I'm glad I have a Duc to keep that in perspective.

I must admit Kev, you and others here,  are tempting me to do a 200 mile trip
and take a close up look at these little creatures 👍

[Kev m]

I must admit Kev, you and others here,  are tempting me to do a 200 mile trip
and take a close up look at these little creatures 👍

I've got two.

You know you've got an open invitation if you visit family in NJ and want to grab a ride on one.

Though I still think the middle ground is the V9.

[kingoffleece]

kev describes how I felt about my Street Triple.  Fantastic for the first hour and then............... ...............

I too never get that way on my V7.  It's simply more fun for this owner.

[Idontwantapickle]

You put an "e" in whisky!

LOL! You may have proven my point! 

http://www.whiskyforeveryone.com/whisky_basics/whisky_or_whiskey.html#:~:text=The%20Scots%20spell%20it%20whisky,when%20referring%20to%20American%20whiskies.

[ohiorider]

Funny story....

I love the SuperSport.  Seacoast Sport Cycle offered me one at a stupid low price and I started the purchase process.  Then I saw they had a leftover Street Classic for $6800.  I was like a raccoon seeing something shiny and next thing I knew I was riding the Scrambler home.  I think the SS is a motorcycle for adults who like sportbikes.  Super competent and they're beautiful.  However, I love gravel roads and while I was lured in by the SS, I ended up buying the Scrambler.  I'll definitely have a SS some day.     

Glad to see you back!  My 1200 Sport is going to continue down the highway with a new owner. Seeing your post made me think back to when I was thinking about buying mine. I believe you were riding back to VT from down south on your 12S.  Our back and forth on the forum closed the deal.  I called Eddie's in Swanzey, bought the bike, and picked it up in early April the following year.

Hope all is well with you.

Bob

[JohninVT]

I remember some of this the first time when you bought the Scrambler.  BTW- they make several versions of the Scrambler series and have some 1100 models.  I'm sure they make some with upgraded suspensions. 

Did you consider the 950 Multi Strada?

I did not.  A 950 Multi costs 2.5 times as much as what I paid for the Scrambler. As for the others, besides the Desert Sled they’re mostly styling exercises on the same bike.  The DS is pretty cool but 3 grand more.  No one buys the 1100 because it’s too expensive. 

I know it sounds like I’m whining, probably because I am😁 but the bike is actually fun to ride.  Kind of in the same way a TW200 is really fun as long as you accept that it has quite a few limitations.  In some ways it’s much more limited than a V7, despite having 30 more hp and a much better frame.  If I had bought a V7 I’d probably be whining just as much but it would be about different things...lol. 

The fundamental issue is that I limit my ownership to one motorcycle but there isn’t one motorcycle that meets all my desires in a bike.  It’s a me problem, not a motorcycle problem.  I’d love to have a collection like Lannis but with a kid in college and the way things are in the country...I’m not going to tie my money up in motorcycles right now. 

I guess what I’m saying is that I’ve fought it for ten years.  I’ve bitched and moaned and said I wouldn’t but it’s inevitable...I’m going to end up with a V7😎. It won’t be for a year or two because I’m going to put some miles on the Scrambler first but eventually I’m going to try one.  Unless something shiny catches my attention....

[Cam3512]

You see this same story play out right here, time after year after year.  Despite that, some have to find out for themselves.  But they always come back.

For ME personally, I'd rather not waste the money and precious time to find out what I already know - It will always be a Guzzi.

Just get the V7 and be happy.

Cam

[JohninVT]

You see this same story play out right here, time after year after year.  Despite that, some have to find out for themselves.  But they always come back.

For ME personally, I'd rather not waste the money and precious time to find out what I already know - It will always be a Guzzi.

Just get the V7 and be happy.

Cam

I don’t think riding and learning about a variety of motorcycles is a waste of time or money.  I could never only ride one motorcycle or even one brand of motorcycle anymore than I could only eat spaghetti every day for the rest of my life.  There are far too many bikes I’d love to own.  Like...a ST1300 or a new CT125(if they ever ship them to the States) Or a FZ400 or an Aprilia RS250 or...you know...a V7😂

[Kev m]

I could never only ride one motorcycle or even one brand of motorcycle anymore than I could only eat spaghetti every day for the rest of my life.

Then why limit yourself to only one (at a time)?

Between deep discounts and used bikes there's no reason to not at least have two....

I'm not saying you need to have a screw loose like some people with dozens of bikes that they can't ever ride.

But having two or three opens up so many more possibilities.

[Dave Swanson]

I'm not saying you need to have a screw loose like some people with dozens of bikes that they can't ever ride.

You really know how to hit a guy where it hurts Kev!  LOL   

[JohninVT]

Then why limit yourself to only one (at a time)?

Between deep discounts and used bikes there's no reason to not at least have two....

I'm not saying you need to have a screw loose like some people with dozens of bikes that they can't ever ride.

But having two or three opens up so many more possibilities.

1)Because kid in college.  I could certainly afford a couple but I had to go get my daughter from UNC suddenly this Spring.  I imagine it will happen again this Fall during a second wave.  I’m keeping money free instead of tying it up in possessions for a while.

2)Because I don’t have a garage at the moment.

3)Because I just realized I have to remove the muffler and mid pipe to do an oil change on the Scrambler.  It has a metal screen pre filter which is fun to get at and requires a 14mm Allen head.  Everyone has a 14mm Allen wrench🙄.  I can only take so much of that kind of fun from Italian machinery at once.  It reminds me of the 2 ounce plastic, cosmetic battery cover in the 1400 that had five fasteners, three of which were different sizes and types.  It’s maddening. 

[Ncdan]

I've got two.

You know you've got an open invitation if you visit family in NJ and want to grab a ride on one.

Though I still think the middle ground is the V9.

When u have the time, either on this thread or PM/text, give me some pros and cons of the V9 vs the V7 as you know I value your take on these issues.

[Kev m]

You really know how to hit a guy where it hurts Kev!  LOL   

 

It was really a passive-aggressive dig at my little bro, but I know you fit the profile too lol! 

[Kev m]

1)Because kid in college.  I could certainly afford a couple but I had to go get my daughter from UNC suddenly this Spring.  I imagine it will happen again this Fall during a second wave.  I’m keeping money free instead of tying it up in possessions for a while.

2)Because I don’t have a garage at the moment.

3)Because I just realized I have to remove the muffler and mid pipe to do an oil change on the Scrambler.  It has a metal screen pre filter which is fun to get at and requires a 14mm Allen head.  Everyone has a 14mm Allen wrench🙄.  I can only take so much of that kind of fun from Italian machinery at once.  It reminds me of the 2 ounce plastic, cosmetic battery cover in the 1400 that had five fasteners, three of which were different sizes and types.  It’s maddening. 

Though I hear ya, I really do (I have a junior in college and two little ones at home we're trying to stuff money away for as well,), but again between used bikes and super cheap leftovers we're talking $3-5k.

Hell spend $2k for on old Tonti Cali even.

Fyi, I've never seen the slightest hint of any contaminant on that filter screen on ours.