V7 III P1607 Code -- What is Cause, What is Cure

[Bert Remington]

I have a 2019 V7 III Stone whose MI Engine Alarm light (Yellow) came on at 240 miles.  The General Alarm light (Red) is off.  I used GuzziDiag which displayed Code P1607.  I have not and will not modify anything emissions-related including exhaust and ECU.

The service manual page 146 description for P1607 says the MI "appears only if the Level 2 safety has reset the engine (C gravity).  The instrument panel does not indicate the presence of this error even in the ATT status."  I have no idea what MG means with this description.

The service manual says to "Replace the engine control unit."

Apparently the MI light can be turned off by the MG dealership diagnostic tool.  This does not appear to be a permanent cure.

Searches at this and other forums indicates the actual cause of the P1607 is uncertain as is the cure.  High temperatures, gasoline quality, tired battery, humidity and wet O2 wiring have all been suggested but not confirmed.

Does anyone know the actual cause of P1607?

Does anyone know the permanent cure for P1607?

At the moment I'm pursuing a permanent cure on Cycle Trader.

[Rich A]

Info here: https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/error-codes-for-5am-7sm-ecus.7966/

P1607 (P0611) : Stored data file (for safety) : Filled Traction control deactivated > 1) ECU has disabled a-PRC system after detecting severe fault 2) Contact Aprilia Technical Support Service, Scheduling error, CKSUM Flash error, CANVBTHR voltage error

(no idea what that is in English)

Rich A

[Bert Remington]

Rich -- thanks for the link but the V7 III is an MIU G3 ECU so this is the correct link: https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/13-v7-v9-miu-ecu-error-codes.12522/

Having said that, looking at your link and thinking through all the various unrelated symptoms that presented P1607, I'm believe it is a CANbus-related fault due to electronic interference, specifically into the Bluedash Pre-Installation pigtail (connector 51) which as best I can tell is NOT terminated.  I just happen to have some 120ohm resistors so I'll try that.  If the resistors cause problems it will be obvious because the dashboard will stop working.

My experience with CANbus, which is quite limited but successful, is on a friend's land speed roadster for which I did the wiring.  We did poorly last year but this year our driver went far into the 200mph club at Speed Week.  My changed circumstances didn't allow me to attend this year but the pictures they sent showed some beautiful salt although I think it's still pretty thin.  Maybe next year...

ZZ -- yeah it's the raffle Stone.  I've farkled it up although no wiring changes yet except LEDs front and back.  For me it handles wonderfully, only 20-30lbs heavier than the RE and just as much fun if not more in the two-lane 55mph back country roads.  Fits me well except footpegs and I'm working on that (both sides, motorcycle and my old knees).  My GPS navigator, action camera, heated vest controller, etc are in perfect locations.

But I'm tired of chasing electronic ghosts.  I've seen what can happen when a robust design (the MIU G3) is carried forward into territory its designers never envisioned (eg, traction control, electronic dashboard) (this happens in software and systems as well as hardware).  Been There, Fixed That.  Many times.

I like the V7 III.  I think MG's designers and engineers and factories did an excellent job with the time, price point and starting point they were given.  But certain things are fragile.  Do I fix or move on?

My MG dealership GP Motorcycles is 3 miles away.  I'll stop by Tuesday.  Their sibling Triumph dealership is another 3 miles away.  They have three 2019 Street Twins on sale.

[subin]

Please see the most recent post from Todd/Guzzi Tech regarding this code at the link below (go to the bottom of the page).
https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/v7-ecu-reliability.17807/

[Bert Remington]

subin -- thanks for the link.  I had already read those posts.  It will be interesting when I go to GP Motorcycles and they say the ECU must be replaced under warranty.  Because if I'm correct in my analysis, P1607 will quickly reoccur with the replacement ECU.  On the other hand, GuzziDiag showed an ECU firmware date of 2018 so maybe there is new firmware that is noise-resistant.  Or MG has added a CANbus resistor to the Bluedash blank-off connector.

WRT Todd's two suggestions, the oil level is as it came from Cadre (I've never checked it) and I haven't used any cleaners.

[beard]

You have to use GuzziDiag and download the file in the Actors menu.

'Stored data download'

After this

'Clear stored data'

And then clear the 'normal' error.

[Huzo]

You have to use GuzziDiag and download the file in the Actors menu.

'Stored data download'

After this

'Clear stored data'

And then clear the 'normal' error.

How damn easy does he make that look...?

[Bert Remington]

beard -- thanks for the GuzziDiag instructions.  Reading the documentation I wouldn't have figured that out on my own.  I'll download the latest copy and execute them this afternoon.

Huzo -- agree the cure is simple but what is cause?  My previous ride had been into the mountains behind San Diego.  Ambient temperature was near 100F, speeds were 40-55mph and gears were 5 and 6.  So engine temperature was probably rather high. I didn't notice the MI light and I'm pretty sure I would have.  GuzziDiag said KOEO voltage was 12.4V.  I'll check KOER voltages, both GuzziDiag and DVOM this afternoon.  Perhaps my installing LEDs' reduced charging system load leading into an alternator problem like KR and Vagrant?

I'm not the only rider seeking to understand the P1607 cause.  If it occurs again then I'm going to GP Motorcycles for diagnosis.

[beard]

I don't think that it is cause by a fault.

The ECU stores some informations (I don't know which).
If the buffer is full, the P1670 error is set.

So this 'errror' will occure on every MIUG3 sooner or later.
Maybe it is regulary cleared by the dealer at the normal inspections.

[aproud1]

As an aside should you get this worked out, you mentioned your knees. I installed a pair of KD lowered pegs on mine. King of Fleece had some very nice pieces made that drops the toe levers to match up with the pegs. The combination of the two are a nice addition to comfort.

John Henry

The knight designs pegs are great. I've been thinking about how to fix the toe levers. Was this a one off part?

[malik]

I don't think that it is cause by a fault.

The ECU stores some informations (I don't know which).
If the buffer is full, the P1670 error is set.

So this 'errror' will occure on every MIUG3 sooner or later.
Maybe it is regulary cleared by the dealer at the normal inspections.

My 2014 has been quite reliable and error free, perhaps it's early days yet, only some 120,000km (it is after all, the reserve V7), but I shall add your fix to the tips for later on. Many thanks.

[Kev m]

The knight designs pegs are great. I've been thinking about how to fix the toe levers. Was this a one off part?

KOF made a small run of them and may still have them available.

They're nice and I bought a set to replace the ones I got from Todd a GT which are decent but I like KOF's better.

If you see GT's drop toe pegs and like them mine are available, like new, for half of whatever he charges.

[Bert Remington]

beard -- I made progress of sorts.  First, I created a report, then I read a .bin and a .eep; all to establish a baseline.  I can PM any of the files if you are interested.  Here's the beginning of the report:

V7 III Stone             IAW MIUG3
                                CM275407
                                38M3G3HW311
                                464AVHAM
                                F09
                                2018.04.28

Next, I followed your Action instructions.  Last, I read fault codes but there weren't any to clear (must have done that yesterday).  So I disconnected the diagnostic interface and turned the ignition ON.  All the initialization lights came on for two seconds and went out except for the usual blinking lights and ...drat... the MI light.  Tried three times, same result.

So I started the engine and after two seconds the MI light went out!  Tried two more times and same result.  I don't remember if that was how it worked before.  Page 99 of the Owner's Manual says the MI light should have gone out during initialization.  Anyway that's close enough for me.  I'll take another hot day's ride into the mountains tomorrow and report back.

ZZ et al -- thanks for the peg adjustment information.  I was aware of KoF's and KD's products.  Right now I'm using SSR pegs (https://www.slingshotracing.net/catalog/moto-guzzi-v7-ii-iii-cnc-billet-aluminum-adjustable-footpegs-p-1612.html) because they are RED.  My problem is actually weak leg muscles, along with my flabby butt, from sitting too much which make it hard to move my legs away from the pegs at stops.  So that's why I'm working on both the motorcycle and me.

[Bert Remington]

While searching for information on IAWDiag, I wandered into a scooter forum which had this PDF explaining the V7's use of the MIU G3:



The last page provides some perspective on the P0601 code Rich A cited earlier.  I hope you find this as useful as I did.

[Kev m]

Interesting. Looks like all the eggs are in one basket on the MIU G3.

Yes, we've been saying that for like 6-7 years now lol. That is its greatest strength, and greatest weakness.

[Bert Remington]

I didn't make it to the mountains.  Turned on ignition -- MI light stayed ON.  Started engine -- MI light went OFF.  Put motorcycle in gear -- MI light went ON.  Drove to Triumph Motorcycles -- can you sell me an RE 500?  Nope only 650s.  Gag.  Drove to GP Motorcycles to make service appointment.  I explained MI light at 240 miles and P1607 error.  Service guy gave me a litany of bad grounds, etc etc.  I said -- and my appointment is? 10 Sep (they have 3 weeks backlog).  Went to sales, explained MI light at 240 miles and asked tradein and market value.  Sales guy said they often do that during breakin, etc etc.  I said -- and the numbers are?  $5,500 tradein and $5,000 market.  And they'd really like to have the motorcycle.  Said look at our used Kawasaki Z650.  Gag.  Went home and got a report from GuzziDiag: P0150 some throttle position baloney.  Cleared it.

But some P code will come back.  How do I know this?  Compare the MIU G3 pinout of 2012 (the first V7 Stone) with the MIU G3 pinout of 2017 (the V7 III Stone).  Modern functions have been added (eg traction control) but the big one in my mind is CANbus which accounts for almost all ECU-to-Dashboard communications.  And I think the improperly terminated CANbus, especially at the Bluedash connector, is introducing electronic gremlins into the ECU.

I'm going to take a count.  Raise your hand if you moved your Bluedash connector from its original location .  It's Gray with 8 pins and the wire loom is marked MGMP.  My hand is up.  I moved it up by the fuse block to take pictures.  No P codes before, now have P codes.

So I'm back to driving the Windstar.  Meanwhile I'm torn between making MG's and my lives miserable with P-code warranty returns or to just take the money and move on.  Having a second RE Classic 500 would be nice (one for urban assault vehicle, one for mountain fun).  I'm going to crack open a beer and spend some time at Cycle Trader.

BTW at 900cc the Street Triumph was overkill.

PS my new footpeg position is just about perfect.

PBU (post-beer-update) This 2018 RE is a single cylinder Stone and therefore perfect for a urban assault vehicle https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2018-Royal-Enfield-BULLET-CLASSIC-500-5013560413  I'll be talking to my bank later this week.  I have lots of headroom in my share-secured loan account.  So MG and I will have a long-term (2 year warranty) relationship until they buy me out.

[Bert Remington]

Cause -- two things I did and one thing MG didn't do.

I installed a DDM LED H4 headlight bulb and I moved the MGMP (Bluedash) cable from next to the battery to next to the fuses.

MG didn't install a 120ohm CANbus termination resistor.

Cure -- I installed a DDM "CANbus Error Free Resistors" device in the headlight circuit.



The Yellow wire is for the Parking lamp.  The device does not fit in the headlight shell so I tie-wrapped it to the left fork leg.  I pried the cover off to see what was inside but it was potted so could only see part of a capacitor.

I added a CANbus termination resistor to the MGMP connector but I was sloppy so can't confirm that would be a cure.

As I noted before, I was seeing a variety of P codes.  P0150 was popular.  As was P1607.  They all went away once I installed the DDM device.

I suspect the CANbus interference came from the 12,000rpm fan and associated electronics in the DDM H4 bulb.

I also suspect any accessory that uses PWM to control power (eg, heated grips, heated vest) could generate CANbus interference.  Whether or not the interference would be detected by the ECU would depend mostly on wire routing.  So don't move your MGMP cable.  And if you start getting weird P codes after you install an accessory, I would start there for fault isolation.  BTW for PWM devices a double pass of the power feed through a ferrite choke would probably be adequate (I haven't verified this).

That 2018 RE sold shortly after I asked about its CA emissions compliance (it was).  It would have been a good UAV but the V7 is better.  More on that coming soon.

[Kiwi_Roy]

My V7iii Special has turned on the MI light since new but it usually goes out again before I have a chance to tie the laptop to it.
It will come on first thing in the morning but usually goes out by itself after several starts.
It seems to be triggered by unusual events like low Voltage when I was having the charging problem, cold damp air
I haven't checked to see if there are termination resistors, isn't that something that is required for long cable lengths, signals reflecting off the end of line?
I have added an LED headlamp but I don't believe this has made it any more susceptible.
I have grown to accept it as another quirk of character, it's annoying I know but doesn't seem to effect the running.