Tonti Flywheel Timing Marks

[ozarquebus]

That is what they look like on my G5 and are about a quarter of an inch apart.
Book picture does not look like this.
It shows three marks.

Am I correct to assume top line is Advanced?
Bottom line is Retarded
"D" is TDC?


There is also another mark on the flywheel a few inches "before" these marks. It is painted red.

 I am using the bottom of the two lines, immediately above the "D" as my Static timing mark.
 Its odd that the official Moto Guzzi repair manual has no section on setting static timing  that i could find, anyway..

[wirespokes]

The bottom one is TDC and the one above is the static timing mark. Rotate the engine counterclockwise a ways - something like 10 or 12 teeth to get the full advance mark. I forget how many degrees for each tooth but I sort of recall it's around 2.

[guzzisteve]

AND the arrow on it is not timing, it is where the crank pin is.  The full advance mark is the next one UP in the window.

[Tom H]

I'm sure you know this, thought I'd mention it just in case. There is a "D" set of lines and "S" set of lines. Sinestra and desinestra IIRR, spelling could be wrong, left and right but I don't remember which. I think sinestra is the LH, don't take my word for it. Chuck has a rhyme for it.

Tom

[80CX100]

    I don't know this stuff that well, my head hurts just thinking about it. lol 

    Tom is right,,,, "S" is for Sinistro sp ? Left cylinder,,, and if you do that cylinder first then roll the flywheel 270 degrees?, you should be on the correct stroke TDC "D" which is Droito sp?for the Right cylinder.

fwiw, good luck

Kelly

[1down5up]

D for Destro (italian for right)  easy way to remember is D = "Drive Shaft Side"
S for sinistra (italian for left) - easy way to remember is S = "Side stand Side"

Crank rotates clockwise when looking at the front of the bike - i.e. the lines come up from the bottom through the viewing window in the bell housing when doing the timing.

[ozarquebus]

OK.
 I think I got it. I am clear on Destra and Sinestera.
is this a true statement?:

" In the setting of static timing on the Tonti Big Block, on the compression stroke for the right (D) cylinder, when rotating engine clockwise when viewed from front, peering through the porthole, by candle light in the humble wood carvers shop, Gepetto will see the advanced timing mark first, then several teeth later the Retarded (static) mark next followed closely by the TDC mark and the "D". "

[LowRyter]

Once you get TDC id'd on "D" (right side).  Mark the alternator fin at 12 o'clock, then rotate once around and to 3 o'clock and it's on "S" (the left side).

Much easier than looking  in the spy hole.   

[Wayne Orwig]

No no no. When you are looking in the hole and see S, that is for SNOT dis side. And the D if for DIS side. Or so I was told.


 

[guzzisteve]

Once you get TDC id'd on "D" (right side).  Mark the alternator fin at 12 o'clock, then rotate once around and to 3 o'clock and it's on "S" (the left side).

Much easier than looking  in the spy hole.   

Once you have those marks the Next time start on the left. Next is turn it 90* to be on the right side. Lots easier than turning it 270*. I always start on the left.
Just my preference, both are correct. (maybe unless I'm backwards)

[1down5up]

With points - If you start on the left cylinder and adjust the timing, you are adjusting the sliding plate on the distributor. If you then go to the right cylinder (after the left first) you are then turning the whole distributor, thus moving the timing on the left out of spec to what ever you set it to first.

[Stevex]

Those marks most likely will not be accurate anyway.
When I fitted my lightened flywheel it had no markings, so I used a piston stop and timing wheel to set them accurately.
I also used L & R, not S & D.

[wirespokes]

" In the setting of static timing on the Tonti Big Block, on the compression stroke for the right (D) cylinder, when rotating engine clockwise when viewed from front, peering through the porthole, by candle light in the humble wood carvers shop, Gepetto will see the advanced timing mark first, then several teeth later the Retarded (static) mark next followed closely by the TDC mark and the "D". "

Exactamundo! Perfecto!!! You got it dude!

[pehayes]

I think I got it. I am clear on Destra and Sinestera.

Pedantic.
Italian words have 'gender'.  The spelling of adjectives must change so as to agree with the gender of the nouns.
Left and right are sometimes nouns; "Go left." and sometimes adjectives.  "Left side."
So, in Italian, the suffix spelling of the adjective depends on the gender of the noun it is modifying.
Cylinder is a masculine noun.  Left cylinder = cilindro sinistro.
However, the head on top of the cylinder is a feminine noun.  Left head = testa sinistra.
There is no specific rule as to which nouns are masculine and which are feminine.   You just learn to memorize them.  Altering the adjectives becomes automatic.
Use whatever mnemonic you prefer to help you remember left/right  sinistro/destro.
BTW, in a very rare occurence you may read about rotational left and right.  The vast majority of bolts and nuts are removed by turning counter-clockwise or "righty-tighty lefty-loosey".  That leftwise turning of the nut for removal would be sinistrorso (or destrorso for tightening).  I've met some Italians who know what I was saying when I said that word but had never actually heard anyone say it previously.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[LowRyter]

Once you have those marks the Next time start on the left. Next is turn it 90* to be on the right side. Lots easier than turning it 270*. I always start on the left.
Just my preference, both are correct. (maybe unless I'm backwards)

I marked the right side because I was looking for the "D" mark to adjust the valves.  And then decided to mark the Alternator.  I didn't see a point to sight on the right side, only to get up and go to the other side of the motor and come back again to do the right side.

BTW- I am used to rotating the engine many times around and around before I catch that little "D or S", and then having to run again another 360 because I was on the Exhaust stroke.  And then missing the marks again.   

Bright flashlight at the right angle.

I just remember, I also didn't know which side was long arc vs the small one.  I was looking for the second timing mark to come on at 9 o'clock but didnt hit it until 3.  I had to do one of those second thought cycles in my brain.

[janguzzi]

I have described this in my video:
S => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PToj-E4tIXg&feature=youtu.be&t=68
D => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PToj-E4tIXg&feature=youtu.be&t=102

[guzzisteve]

I marked the right side because I was looking for the "D" mark to adjust the valves.  And then decided to mark the Alternator.  I didn't see a point to sight on the right side, only to get up and go to the other side of the motor and come back again to do the right side.

BTW- I am used to rotating the engine many times around and around before I catch that little "D or S", and then having to run again another 360 because I was on the Exhaust stroke.  And then missing the marks again.   

Bright flashlight at the right angle.

I just remember, I also didn't know which side was long arc vs the small one.  I was looking for the second timing mark to come on at 9 o'clock but didnt hit it until 3.  I had to do one of those second thought cycles in my brain.

My Tonti's have Dyna's since almost new in 84 & 86 and still working, nothing has ever moved. I turn rear wheel and look at the rockers, then use a straw on that side. I don't have a need to look in the hole or take off alt cover. I have checked timing w/light bout 20yrs ago still good. I put blue loctite on sensor nuts & washers to top of sensors, shit will never move around. I do this to every Dyna I work on, then all you have to do is lube Dizzy shaft screw head. It makes my work lots easier next time I work on the bike.

[moto]

The bottom one is TDC and the one above is the static timing mark. Rotate the engine counterclockwise a ways - something like 10 or 12 teeth to get the full advance mark. I forget how many degrees for each tooth but I sort of recall it's around 2.

It's 3.75 degrees per tooth: 360 degrees divided by 96 teeth.

[wirespokes]

Thanks for the correction, Moto. 

[Testarossa]

My T has the two marks ahead of tdc and static timing was a good start on the advance timing job. But the Mille has only tdc and full advance, which makes sense because at idle it's already into the advance curve. Static timing is a waste of effort. One good reason to use a Dyna and time only at full advance.

[ozarquebus]

It just won't run right or idle.
 Next step. Randomly twisting distributor.

[Tom H]

Have you tried these manuals listed here:

http://thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_tonti_workshop_manuals___shop_manuals___service_manuals.html

There is a V1000 G5 and SP. On page 30 there is an explanation on how to adjust the points. Also, on page number 137 there looks like a more detailed explanation.

IF this still does not help, look at the manual for a 850 "T ??". Sometimes new manuals omit things that have been covered in previous manuals.

Good luck,
Tom

[Testarossa]

Oh, yeah, with points you MUST first time the LEFT right side (left or top set of points) because that's the main points plate. Then time the rightside secondary plate (left plug, right or lower set of points). Nothing ever works if you start with the right side, unless you're running an electronic ignition.

[Stevex]

Oh, yeah, with points you MUST first time the LEFT side because that's the main points plate. Then time the right side secondary plate. Nothing ever works if you start with the right side, unless you're running an electronic ignition.

Think you've got that the wrong way round...
...I've just had my distributor out to check out the gear pin (which was fine) and refitted it with a new set of points.
I set the right cylinder timing first as its (upper) points are set onto the backing plate and the distributor has to be rotated to adjust them.
The left cylinder timing (lower) points are then adjusted via the moveable plate after the distributor is bolted down.

As far as setting the timing, it's very simple; I remove the rocker covers and rotate the engine until the right cylinder starts its compression cycle.
As the piston rises towards TDC, watch the window as the advance timing mark goes past and line up the static timing mark with it's centre. If you look down on the fly wheel you can see the TDC mark.
Turn the distributor until the points open at the correct setting. I use a voltmeter set to the continuity beeper, no need to look for a visual indication then, just watch the timing mark and listen until the beeper stops beeping. Then onto the left side after bolting the dizzy solid, using the adjustable back plate.
Final check, rotate the engine and check the beeper / timing marks as each timing mark gets to the centre of the window.

[wirespokes]

If you know the distributor is in the right place (was running before) there's no need removing a valve cover. Just watch the points cam to know you're almost there.

Just remember there's one and a quarter crank revolutions from Right TDC to Left TDC.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Think you've got that the wrong way round...
...I've just had my distributor out to check out the gear pin (which was fine) and refitted it with a new set of points.
I set the right cylinder timing first as its (upper) points are set onto the backing plate and the distributor has to be rotated to adjust them.
The left cylinder timing (lower) points are then adjusted via the moveable plate after the distributor is bolted down.

This ^^^. Red wire = right cylinder, green wire = left.

[mtiberio]

It's 3.75 degrees per tooth: 360 degrees divided by 96 teeth.

I seem to remember 720mm circumference for the ringear. That would make 2mm per degree.

[Testarossa]

Think you've got that the wrong way round...

You're right, of course. Duh. Corrected it.

[moto-uno]

  I can't believe how many variations we have on simply setting the timing ! If this very limited understanding of what's
happening exists , I'd be tempted to suggest he leave it alone until someone with a grasp of this matter is there to assist
and further his understanding .  Peter

[ozarquebus]

Well, I feel confident I have the timing chain replacement and the timing correct. It just wont idle properly and revs up with a bit of a stutter. I'll just move on to cleaning up the carbs a little and other general maintenance. Thanks for all the help.