#2 screwdrivers -- UPDATE: Lowe's withdrew their product!

[Demar]

JIS screwdrivers make a huge difference. I also prefer Torx over Hex screws. I recently bought a 2016 Jeep Wrangler and installed a winch. I used tamper resistant Torx Button head screws on the skid plate covering the winch bolts to hopefully prevent winch theft.

[moto]

Very nice, Moto.  When I was a pup, an old aircraft mechanic told me to buy the best screwdrivers I could afford. Aircraft have to be disassembled all the time, and cheap screwdrivers booger up the screw heads. He recommended Stanley then.  Of course, I am rich beyond my wildest dreams when I was a (really poor) kid, and have Snap On and Matco for aircraft work, now.

First, thanks Chuck, and all. I always learn something when I post something on this board. (I didn't know of the enthusiasm for using JIS drivers on Phillips screws, presumably old screws with the heads worn out by Craftsman screwdrivers! )

Now an update, followed by a question (don't go away, Chuck). I continued looking around the web and finally stumbled on the successors to the Ace chrome vanadium screwdriver I lost. They are now called Ace Pro Series screwdrivers, but the rubberized version by the same name is what shows up in cursory searches. They have the same part numbers as my old screwdrivers.* Here's a photo of old and new Ace screwdrivers, alongside the Stanley 100 Plus driver I previously preferred:





The fit of the tip in my reference Phillips screw is good, about like the Klein and Stanley. It can be seen that the big flanges I liked have atrophied to a size smaller than the Stanley. In addition, the four flutes I liked have become six. Ergonomically, to me, the Stanley still wins.

The question (especially for the machinists among us): This Ace set is made of SVCM steel, per Ace's website. (It's also made in Taiwan, a plus in my book.) The web tells me that SVCM is a tough tool steel that is "better than chrome vanadium," the previous steel that Ace used. My question: Since none of the other screwdrivers among those I considered claim anything more than to be made of steel or "alloy steel," how much weight should I give the SVCM steel here? I'd really like a durable driver and would happily overlook the flanges and flutes to get more durability.

By the way, I'm now trying to ease out of this obsession...

Thanks,

Moto

*The Phillips driver is Item No.  20556. I drove 20 miles to pick up one for $4.59 plus tax, in order to check it out. A set of six flat- and Phillips-head drivers is Item No. 24000, listed on the Ace hardware site for $19.95, and available to me at a store 3 miles away.


EDIT: I think I asked a question no one can sensibly answer, since the type of "alloy" in, for example, the Stanley tool is unknown. I ended up ordering a set of the Stanleys because the construction quality and overall form of the handles was clearly better.

[LowRyter]

I did lots of searches and didn't see anything that registered as JIS screwdriver.  Just Phillips.

[SIR REAL ED]

https://www.vesseltools.com/handtools/screwdrivers/whatisjis

here's a good source.

Torx bits and screws are popular because they are very forgiving when a stupid robot is involved in assembly.

[moto]

I did lots of searches and didn't see anything that registered as JIS screwdriver.  Just Phillips.

I got several hits, including mcmaster.com, by simply searching for "JIS screwdriver price".

But this comment claims that most so-called JIS drivers, including the ones offered by Vessel, actually follow a newer DIN/ISO standard that splits the difference between JIS and Phillips: https://rtstools.com/jis-vs-phillips-screwdrivers-and-where-to-buy-a-jis-screwdriver/.

[moto]

ISO standards are not free, of course. You can find this one listed on Amazon for $150, with an entertaining, not-to-be-missed review:

https://www.amazon.com/ISO-8764-1-Assembly-Screwdrivers-cross-recessed/dp/B000XYSZ32#aw-udpv3-customer-reviews_feature_div

[LowRyter]

I got several hits, including mcmaster.com, by simply searching for "JIS screwdriver price".

But this comment claims that most so-called JIS drivers, including the ones offered by Vessel, actually follow a newer DIN/ISO standard that splits the difference between JIS and Phillips: https://rtstools.com/jis-vs-phillips-screwdrivers-and-where-to-buy-a-jis-screwdriver/.

I did go to this one, I just missed how to navigate the site.   Thanks 

[80CX100]

     For a long time I didn't even know there was a difference with JIS, but over the years I did notice that phillips screws/drivers tended to strip quite easily; apparently that was part of the original design goal so shaved apes couldn't cause damage by over tightening the fastenings in certain applications.

     As stated earlier most Asian products use JIS screws as well as very high percentage of European products as well.

     One of the local VRRA members started a company and sells the bits and good quality full tang screwdrivers (not sure who the manufacturer is), he does ship to the US and with the favourable exchange rate, may be worth considering, fwiw https://www.gofastinnovations.com/about

     fwiw

     Kelly

[Chuck in Indiana]

This Ace set is made of SVCM steel, per Ace's website.

Sorry, I have no idea what SVCM steel is, although a guy would think CM might be Chrome Moly, maybe 4130 or 4140? Hmmm SV.. Special Version? Super Velocity? Dunno. 

[moto]

Sorry, I have no idea what SVCM steel is, although a guy would think CM might be Chrome Moly, maybe 4130 or 4140? Hmmm SV.. Special Version? Super Velocity? Dunno. 

Well, that explains it! Thanks!

Moto

More here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_resisting_steel

[Chuck in Indiana]

ISO standards are not free, of course. You can find this one listed on Amazon for $150, with an entertaining, not-to-be-missed review:

https://www.amazon.com/ISO-8764-1-Assembly-Screwdrivers-cross-recessed/dp/B000XYSZ32#aw-udpv3-customer-reviews_feature_div

  

[egschade]

I just go in the tool truck. There is also a Phillips for Japanese screws that works better on some than others.

I learned about JIS screw drivers from a dealer after stripping many of the screw heads on my Kawasaki back in the 70's. Made a huge difference.

[DougG]

Hi all,                                                                                                      1-2-21

If you are looking for an inexpensive alternative to high end JIS screw drivers, try these from Amazon.  I use them in my bit drivers (drill, straight handles, close quarter ratchets, etc.) Maybe not the strongest, but fine for my purposes...easily recognizable as JIS and very affordable.

COMOK 20pcs 8mm/0.315inch Tip BrownTone Magnetism Metal JIS Cross Head Hex Drive Bit
Brand: COMOK
3.5 out of 5 stars    9 ratings
Price:   $10.99  & FREE Returns
Coupon
Save an extra 10% when you apply this coupon. Details
Material   Metal
Brand   COMOK
drive system   External Hex, JIS, Cross
Color   Brown
Head style   Hex

Be well, stay well,
DougG

[Siamese]

Okay, but how do you choose your socks?

[sib]

Sorry, I have no idea what SVCM steel is, although a guy would think CM might be Chrome Moly, maybe 4130 or 4140? Hmmm SV.. Special Version? Super Velocity? Dunno. 

From the autihority named Wikipedia:
SVCM steel is an alloy of carbon, silicon, chromium, magnesium (Mg), nickel, molybdenum and tungsten (W).[4] SVCM+ in addition is quenched and tempered achieving a high hardness (HRC 59).[4] SCVM+ has better torsional properties than chromium-vanadium steel (Cr-V).

[moto]

ISO standards are not free, of course. You can find this one listed on Amazon for $150, with an entertaining, not-to-be-missed review:

https://www.amazon.com/ISO-8764-1-Assembly-Screwdrivers-cross-recessed/dp/B000XYSZ32#aw-udpv3-customer-reviews_feature_div

P.S. to all. Don't forget to click the "Helpful" button if you found this review worthy.

[John Ulrich]

https://www.vesseltools.com/handtools/screwdrivers/whatisjis

   get a #2 JIS with full tang and you can beat on it all you want.

[john fish]

ISO standards are not free, of course. You can find this one listed on Amazon for $150, with an entertaining, not-to-be-missed review:

https://www.amazon.com/ISO-8764-1-Assembly-Screwdrivers-cross-recessed/dp/B000XYSZ32#aw-udpv3-customer-reviews_feature_div

Brilliant review.  Hope you don't mind if I quote it.

   E. Hayot
5.0 out of 5 stars ISO 8764-1:2004 does it again!
Reviewed in the United States on October 30, 2009
The author formerly known as ISO/TC 29/SC 9, now known under the even-more-implausible name of ISO/TC 29/SC 10, pulls no punches in this, his latest masterpiece. From the title's clever reduplication of the author's name, a gesture that will recall the barely obscured autobiographical qualities of a Bellow novel, or the journal of Bernardo Soares, the reader who approaches this short text knows that he or she is in for the usual ISO/TC 29/SC 10 postmodern drubbing. Cleverly disguised as a listing of the specifics of the shapes and dimensions, technical requirements and torque test methods for the tips of hand drivers (as if!), ISO/TC 29/SC 10's novel captures the vernal marl of life in contemporary New England, the suffocating corruption of the bourgeois family and its modalities of (self-)reproduction, and those wrought and finally empty existential dilemmas that arrange the circumferences of the present. Plenty of humor here for those looking for a quick laugh (the section on H and Z form recesses is particularly well done), but also a great deal of poignancy, given that the novel offers as the only plausible salve and enclosure of its entire narrative structure (and indeed its philosophical conundrums) a reference to the famous lost work of ISO 8764-2 -- a text whose disappearance signals, perhaps, the degree to which all solutions in ISO 8764-1:2004 remain external to it.

Folks: no text about head screws is just a book about head screws. You know that, I know that. So let's stop pretending.

[moto]

UPDATE: I'm flabbergasted. Nearly awestruck.

Following my original post, above, I sent a negative, one-star review of the ill-fitting #2 Kobalt screwdriver in to the Lowe's website, but never got a reply to it (at least that I noticed). So today I checked to see if it had ever been posted.

Not only had they posted it (as the only review), complete with my photo of the competing screwdrivers, but they apparently WITHDREW THE #2 SCREWDRIVER FROM SALE (across the country I suppose)!

All the other screwdrivers in the series seem to still be available both at my local store for pickup, and by delivery!

!!

Here is my review, as they posted it:

***************************************************

Did not fit a #2 Phillips screw

In considering what set to get, I compared this Kobalt #2 Phillips screwdriver with similar ones from Stanley, Klein, Craftsman and Ace. It was the only one that would not fit all the way into a 50-year old, unmolested Phillips #2 screw head that I used as my standard. An ill-fitting Phillips screwdriver will of course ruin screws. Do not buy this one.

***************************************************

The web page where it appears is https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-Plastic-Handle-2-Phillips-Screwdriver/50158883 .





Amazingly, my single review seems to have had an effect on this huge company. Say what you will about Lowe's, they may sell junk, but at least they care when this is pointed out!

Perhaps quality control will rectify the problem and return this item to the store. Hope so.

Moto

[LowRyter]

I have to confess, I never knew there was so to do about screwdrivers.  I just thought they were flat or phillips and came in different lengths and sizes more or less in a random fashion. 

[John A]

Somewhere there is somebody cursing because the screwdriver that fit the best in his machine is no longer available at Lowe’s 

[wymple]

"If everything was torx or hex head I'd be happy. I see zero need for phillips and even less need for slotted."

I can't remember the last time I used a slotted screw.

[s1120]

UPDATE: I'm flabbergasted. Nearly awestruck.

Following my original post, above, I sent a negative, one-star review of the ill-fitting #2 Kobalt screwdriver in to the Lowe's website, but never got a reply to it (at least that I noticed). So today I checked to see if it had ever been posted.

Not only had they posted it (as the only review), complete with my photo of the competing screwdrivers, but they apparently WITHDREW THE #2 SCREWDRIVER FROM SALE (across the country I suppose)!

All the other screwdrivers in the series seem to still be available both at my local store for pickup, and by delivery!

!!

Here is my review, as they posted it:

***************************************************

Did not fit a #2 Phillips screw

In considering what set to get, I compared this Kobalt #2 Phillips screwdriver with similar ones from Stanley, Klein, Craftsman and Ace. It was the only one that would not fit all the way into a 50-year old, unmolested Phillips #2 screw head that I used as my standard. An ill-fitting Phillips screwdriver will of course ruin screws. Do not buy this one.

***************************************************

The web page where it appears is https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-Plastic-Handle-2-Phillips-Screwdriver/50158883 .





Amazingly, my single review seems to have had an effect on this huge company. Say what you will about Lowe's, they may sell junk, but at least they care when this is pointed out!

Perhaps quality control will rectify the problem and return this item to the store. Hope so.

Moto

It will be interesting to revisit this in the future when Lowes/Kobalt comes out with a replacement...  Ive said it before, and will again.I am vary pleased with how much the Kobalt brand has improved in the last few years. Times like this it seems I now know why.

[Mike Tashjian]

Lowes Kobalt 6 in 1 for 7.98 with a lifetime warranty is one I have in my tool drawer and tool bag.  I use it more than I would have thought.  It doesn't replace the dozens of special purpose screwdrivers one may accumulate over the years but, it works fine for what it is. 

[Joliet Jim]

Lowes Kobalt 6 in 1 for 7.98 with a lifetime warranty is one I have in my tool drawer and tool bag.  I use it more than I would have thought.  It doesn't replace the dozens of special purpose screwdrivers one may accumulate over the years but, it works fine for what it is.

I somehow managed to break mine in half, basically handle came off the metal. Problem is I rarely go to Lowe's and when I do the screwdriver is still at home. Only time I've had that happen and I almost exclusively use 6 in 1 or multi tip screwdriveres.

[moto]

Somewhere there is somebody cursing because the screwdriver that fit the best in his machine is no longer available at Lowe’s 

 

I'm a bit alarmed that a screw head on the back of my cabinet door may become a national standard. You'd think they could buy their own screw and check the fit themselves.

Moto

[wymple]

JIS screwdrivers make a huge difference. I also prefer Torx over Hex screws. I recently bought a 2016 Jeep Wrangler and installed a winch. I used tamper resistant Torx Button head screws on the skid plate covering the winch bolts to hopefully prevent winch theft.

Always a mystery to me. Any thief would have the drivers for tamper resistant screws anyway.

[Vagrant]

Wat always piqued my curiosity was why they put them in bathroom stalls.

[John Ulrich]

https://www.vesseltools.com/handtools/screwdrivers/whatisjis

I keep Vessel and Felo at two locations.  All the others make great punches & drifts.