Oil Cooler for Breva 750?

[gentlemanjim]

Just got this 2008 Breva 750 with only 7000 miles.  Did a few maintenance and upgrades, Tires Michelin Street, LI Batter, Renthal Bars.  Runs great engine feels a bit coarse, I'm fine with that. 

Would love to do a Leo Vince, arrow exhaust, but the remapping seems too challenging for me.

Tip - Dart windscreens for the V7 fit perfectly on the Breva 750's

My main question is: I'd like to add an oil cooler.  Has anyone done it?

[Frenchfrog]

Not an easy prospect .PM me and I'll try to dig out the details..what most people do is to put a sump extender on an add some extra oil. You can get ventilated sump extenders a too but they do sweet FA. I have one but no longer use it.

[hzbloke]

I've also got a 2008 Breva 750. I've done about 70,000km on it. I don't know where you live but here in Oz it's not all that unusual to ride in 40°C heat. I've never had even the faintest sign of a problem. No extended sump, no oil cooler. I think you may be trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

[sign216]

Hzbloke is right, there's not much of an issue. 

Milich (sp?) formerly raced a V65 and looked hard into adding an oil cooler.  It's just not possible.  A northern European vender (maybe TLM     https://shop.tlm.nl/ )  used to have an aftermarket oil cooler, but it was a horrendous affair, drawing oil from an extended sump, through the cooler, and then to the oil pump.  Adding that extra length to the oil intake could spell serious trouble to oil lube.

But I give real credit to TLM for supporting the smallblock and finding a way to add a cooler.

Joe

[Tom]

Ed.

[SmithSwede]

I ride a small block pretty hard in Texas regardless of heat or traffic.  Never had any issues.  Very much doubt you need an oil cooler, given modern synthetic oil.   

[gentlemanjim]

You are probably right "I think you may be trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist".  I thought it would be a nice upgrade if it was easy.

[Frenchfrog]

It's not easy jim...the way I've seen it done is to modify the oil filter feeds.They did that on the Paris Dakar  Baja racers...or at least some of them.A guy in Italy has described how to do and he built an absolutely fabulous 4 valve replica over a few years.I'd just get the sump extender if I were you.

[Bulldog9]

I commute in Washington DC area on my v7ii stormello and also was looking into adding an oil cooler for those hot summer traffic jams. Being concerned about oil temps I purchased an oil dipstick thermometer from mg cycle. On very hot days while stuck in traffic the motor would ping a little and temps would get above 180, but that is only under the worst of circumstances. Normal riding even very hard on hot days the temps are in the safe range with no problems. I did buy a sump extender to give an extra quart of oil, but haven't installed it yet. My solution was to use full synthetic oils, and change the oil every 3,000 MI (filter still at 6,000).

I think the army is moving me away from DC next summer so I'm less concerned about it.

As the motor for the 750 breva is very similar to the v7ii, as others have said I don't think you have anything to worry about. Seems odd, as almost every other air cooled motorcycle I have owned has had an external oil cooler but time has been the best test of this design and its cooling capabilities.

[sign216]

Seems odd, as almost every other air cooled motorcycle I have owned has had an external oil cooler but time has been the best test of this design and its cooling capabilities.

The separate twin cylinders of the Guzzi design make it the best of all for air cooling.  A trait shared w BMW.  It's a more expensive, otherwise other builders would have done something similar.

[Tom]

On this topic......"Paging...Kev m....please pick up the white courtesy!"

[Bulldog9]

The separate twin cylinders of the Guzzi design make it the best of all for air cooling.  A trait shared w BMW.  It's a more expensive, otherwise other builders would have done something similar.

Hate to tell you, but my Griso, Norge, 1200 Sport, and MGX 21, all with the same 'design' have external oil coolers. For whatever reason, the 750 motor doesn't, neither does my Convert, same with most of the Tonti's and Loop frames bikes from what I have seen.

[malik]

The V7C (now 220,000km) has the same engine as the Breva and has no oil cooler or sump extension. Just keep an eye on the oil level every now & again. The 2014 1TB has only 130,000km, no cooler either. The only problem it has in the heat & bumper to bumper crawling traffic was due to too much oil - wetting the airbox, air filter & pushing oil down the manifold. Solution - a little less oil.

The Breva, like the V7C, has the well-written 15RC ECU. Very forgiving of aftermarket mufflers. Just put the new one on, set the TPS & the auto-learning (Guzzidiag is helpful here), then the ECU adapts over the next 300-400km.

Enjoy. The Breva is a very capable machine.

[Kev m]

On this topic......"Paging...Kev m....please pick up the white courtesy!"

Not sure what I can add that hasn't been covered.

The big blocks that had a cooler were making more hp/liter and seemed to run hotter.

I observed engine temps (laser pyrometer tests at spark plug port of head and front/rear of head) comparing various big blocks (Jackal and Breva 1100 to carbureted and EFI Sportsters ridden side-by-side). The B11 was the only one of the four that had an oil cooler and though its temps weren't concerning it was the only one of the four that was uncomfortable in summer heat due to airflow around the rider.

I haven't bothered to check head temps in either of my smallblocks because they are not uncomfortable even in the worst winter heat in which I ride and they show no symptoms that would worry me.

Now I did install a sump extender on my MkI almost as soon as I bought it and it makes me feel warm and fuzzy having the extra capacity. But hindsight being last year I probably didn't need it.

Fwiw, when I was checking head temps the EFI Evo Sportsters ran hotter than even the B11 (especially if you consider spike temps in traffic). They don't come with an oil cooler and one buddy of mine has over 200k miles on a basically stock motor.

So yeah, I wouldn't worry about it on a V7, though I might get the sump extender if it was still nagging at my subconscious.

[huub]

The V65 Baja had a oil cooler from the factory, using a spacer between the block and the sump.
used off road in a hot climate a smallblock needs a oil cooler, i used to run V65 on off road, i had it seriously overheat a couple of times.
usually when it really overheated it had stretched exhaust valves afterwards. which needed to be changed.
whether it is necessary on a road bike is up to you.

if you decide to run a oil cooler , get a thermostat, otherwise it will run too cold most of the time

[timonbik]

From the picture of the Flyscreen I would have to ask why?  It looks no larger than the stock Breva "guage protector" that the bikes came from the factory with.

[sign216]

Huub,

Guzzi's Baja 650cc desert bike was a race-only machine.  To fit an oil cooler, they replaced the oil filter w a take-off to/from the oil cooler.  A neat trick, but without an oil filter it's not a long term solution for a regular bike.

Joe

[huub]

Huub,

Guzzi's Baja 650cc desert bike was a race-only machine.  To fit an oil cooler, they replaced the oil filter w a take-off to/from the oil cooler.  A neat trick, but without an oil filter it's not a long term solution for a regular bike.

Joe

Hi Joe,

I know exactly what a baja is, a friend of mine has one he bought new.
i did some of  off road competitions on my V65 TT with him on his baja.
adding a inline spin on oil filter is no rocket science...

The V65 engine has a well documented history of overheating , and subsequently  dropping valves , even on road bikes.
with current valves and valve springs the issue seems to be solved , but in extreme use i can see the benefit of having a oil cooler.
now whether the average breva will ever see extreme use is another matter.   

[Kev m]

Hi Joe,

I know exactly what a baja is, a friend of mine has one he bought new.
i did some of  off road competitions on my V65 TT with him on his baja.
adding a inline spin on oil filter is no rocket science...

The V65 engine has a well documented history of overheating , and subsequently  dropping valves , even on road bikes.
with current valves and valve springs the issue seems to be solved , but in extreme use i can see the benefit of having a oil cooler.
now whether the average breva will ever see extreme use is another matter.

I wonder what other changes were made between the V65 and the B7/N7 and V7C that might contribute to overheating not being an issue anymore?

I know more changes were made still to the 1TB models, but even before that I can't recall hearing any overheating issues on the previous generation. I would think it was more than just heartier valves to withstand the heat? But I literally don't know, that could be it.

I just don't recall but only anyone having problems with that generation, I also don't recall anyone every complaining about the heat which I would think would at least manifest in some discomfort or other symptoms if it was an issue.

[SmithSwede]

I vaguely recall some Guzzi advertising claiming an increase in fin cooling area for the single throttle body models.     

Stick a pencil in between those fins.  They are a lot deeper than you might think.   

[sign216]

Good points Kev and Swede,

Aside from deeper finning, nothing comes to mind that was changed for the B7 and V7.  Perhaps a larger capacity oil pump to give greater circulation, or/and a heartier engine casting to soak up heat.

[Muzz]

I believe that the way the oil system in the smallbocks is done basically precludes the fitting of an external oil filter.

The heron head smallblocks run hot, them's the breaks.  They don;t have all that much oil.  Check it regularly, especially if you have been fanging it a bit.  Some of the early Brevas/Nevadas would suddenly puke their oil, just because.....

[Frenchfrog]

Exactly Muzz...The later small blocs including the Breva do have a larger capacity oil pump for a start...better valves too and many other small differences.One thing to bear in mind is also that with leaner running due to emissions more modern machines possibly do run hotter. I noted that previous to the Brevas  circa 2005 no one seemed to be that concerned about the low oil capacity in the range...and then all of a sudden sump extenders were offered by several people on both sides of the pond.

[Kev m]

Exactly Muzz...The later small blocs including the Breva do have a larger capacity oil pump for a start...better valves too and many other small differences.One thing to bear in mind is also that with leaner running due to emissions more modern machines possibly do run hotter. I noted that previous to the Brevas  circa 2005 no one seemed to be that concerned about the low oil capacity in the range...and then all of a sudden sump extenders were offered by several people on both sides of the pond.

I thought the sump extenders were largely to address the sudden and unexplainable loss of oil that occurred in some late-model 2TB motors.

I ordered one and added it to my first generation 1TB V7 Stone because of that history, but it seems that whether it was through changes to piston design (as some think) or breather system (as others do) that has become an non-issue on the 1TB models.'

As a result I have a sump extender and extra capacity on my 13' Stone, but not on our tighter emissions standards and presumably "hotter" running V7III Dark. But again, neither has ever given me the slightest reason to be concerned about operating temps.

[Tom]

Let's not forget the oil technology has improved too.  Better olive oil.  🤪