Author Topic: The Winter War (Read 2167 times)

sign216 · « **on:** February 14, 2021, 06:03:07 PM »

A female friend forwarded this from her son, who know of my interest. Does anyone remember their history?

Knuckle Dragger · « **Reply #1 on:** February 14, 2021, 06:20:05 PM »

Don't quite understand exactly what you're asking, but the Winter war was a real, & for the Finns extremely proud & significant series of battles early in WW2 where they literally kicked butt, forcing a far numerically superior but ill-disciplined & poorly motivated Soviet invasion force to a standstill.

Things turned around for the Finns in the later so-called Continuation War, from which they were effectively forced to capitulate, ceding substantial territory to the USSR & beginning the cold-war foreign policy known as "Finlandization".

As for the cartoon, I suppose its apt & a mite quirky.

Tom · « **Reply #2 on:** February 14, 2021, 08:49:42 PM »

The Russians were ill equipped and tactically inefficient compared to the Finns. Interesting to note that the Germans did almost the same errors later in Operation Barbarossa. Of course, if this thread is in reference to Finland vs. Soviet Union prior to WWII.

John A · « **Reply #3 on:** February 15, 2021, 08:05:51 AM »

This is a good one about it, by the guys who did a series on the Great War and are now doing ww2 https://youtu.be/2M8s3eH-gfE

sign216 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 15, 2021, 10:44:39 AM »

Reportedly the Soviet's poor performance against the Finns, a much smaller power, convinced the Germans that they could successfully invade Russia.

Volumes were written on the German loss there. In short, the German failure could be blamed on the difference between fighting defensively vs offensively.

twowheeladdict · « **Reply #5 on:** February 15, 2021, 10:51:33 AM »

The Simpsons? Really?

I read an article many years ago that defense lawyers never chose engineers to be on juries, unless they happened to be engineers who also watched the Simpsons. Mmm.

SmithSwede · « **Reply #6 on:** February 15, 2021, 10:57:07 AM »

No thread on the Winter War is complete without mention of Simo Hayha. Probably the deadliest sniper in history. The Russians called him the “White Death” and could not kill him.

https://nichetraveler.com/anthropology-and-history/world-war-ii-sniper-simo-hayha-winter-war-finland/8/?as=799&asv=1

Arctic Fox · « **Reply #7 on:** February 15, 2021, 05:08:07 PM »

What do you want to know? My Finland's Swede granny was Small Lotta back then. Plus I lost two ancestors in Tali-Ihanta battle (few years later).
Are here any Russian members? They would not like my posts...

There are heroes like Simo Häyhä, Lauri Törni (Larry Thorne for you Americans), Jorma Sarvanto who alone faced 6 enemies bombers/planes (above of city Kuopio) and shoot all them down less than in 4 minutes. Still World record. And many many others.

For example, this man. I had pleasure to met his daughter once (she was very old).

Very brave man.
'' His tactical greatness, as well as his manner of leading from the front made him a great leader and led to great devotion and motivation from the troops under his command.''
His medals.

Tom · « **Reply #8 on:** February 15, 2021, 05:14:35 PM »

Fire and Ice: The Winter War of Finland and Russia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byro0-288AU

Tom · « **Reply #9 on:** February 15, 2021, 06:14:50 PM »

Short vid on Finland and the Soviet Union relations that led to the Winter War and after. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6aOk0SiHgI

Tom · « **Reply #10 on:** February 15, 2021, 07:41:50 PM »

101 Facts about Finland. Give some insight into relations after the war and the Continuation War prior to the Cold War relations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFom9ziEXVY

Gliderjohn · « **Reply #11 on:** February 15, 2021, 08:10:47 PM »

Prescott,
The article didn't make clear the caliber used. 6.5 I would guess?
GliderJohn

SmithSwede · « **Reply #12 on:** February 15, 2021, 11:07:50 PM »

John:

He mostly used a Finnish Mosin Nagant, so that would be 7.62X54R, a Russian cartridge. The SMGs were 9mm. But I suspect there may have been a fair number of Swede Mausers and maybe Norwegian Krags in the mix, which would have been 6.5X55. I believe the Finns favored .30 Luger like the Swiss, but also had 9mm.

SmithSwede · « **Reply #13 on:** February 15, 2021, 11:26:42 PM »

Artic Fox depicts Major General Aaro Pajari, for those interested in reading about an amazing soldier.

Arctic Fox · « **Reply #14 on:** February 16, 2021, 01:35:39 AM »

One thing to keep in minds:

Here we can see areas which Finland lost to Russians (after WWII, after Continuation war)

And here we see areas which Finland lost to Russians after Winter War

Both pictures incl. for example 3. biggest city of Finland (before WWII) ... Vyborg. So even as Finns fought amaizingly hard for their lands (Stalin's original thought was to occupy whole country in 3 days to 2 weeks (Winter War) ... just like Germans walked over Central Europe .... after 90 days war ... Russians have succeed basically nothing. But the peace treaty was still hard/unfair for Finns.

As was whole WWII.

Arctic Fox · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16, 2021, 06:40:08 AM »

Quote from: John A on February 15, 2021, 08:05:51 AM

This is a good one about it, by the guys who did a series on the Great War and are now doing ww2 https://youtu.be/2M8s3eH-gfE

Just have to say two things (as watched the video).

It is true that Finland was part of Russia before Bolseviks revolution in Russia (1917). Grand Duchy of Finland. That existed between 1809 and 1917 (108 years) as an autonomous part of the Russian Empire. So Finland differed from rest of Russian Empire. Before that Finland was more than 700 years part of Sweden. Saying shortly: Finns did not keep themselves as Russians 1917; never earlier & never later. Because of language, western laws, western religion (Lutherans vs Orthodox), western culture etc. Just to clarify the staring point of the video (1917).

Secondly Stalin and Russians really tried to occupy Finland also while Continuation war ... Tali-Ihantala battle was the biggest one ever in Nordic countries / Scandinavia and Finns stopped Sovjets attack/forces.
'' the Battle of Tali-Ihantala, along with other Finnish victories (in the battles of Vyborg Bay, Vuosalmi, Nietjärvi, and Ilomantsi) finally convinced the Soviet leadership that conquering Finland was proving difficult, and not worth the cost''.

It is true that in one point Stalin turned his eyes more and more against Germany/Berlin (plus Churchill also influenced to Stalin to accept peace treaty with Finns) ... but still Finns can thank themselves as they kept their independence. Or being one of the few countries in Europe which never become occupied while WWII and the only one of Axis powers countries.

Over all ... the end of the war is still one thing. I tend to focus more: who started the war & who was guilty of it.

Arctic Fox · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2021, 08:18:14 AM »

BTW: There is quite good film done from Winter War (Talvisota in Finnish).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Winter_War_(film)

That is not pure ''Masterpiece'' like The Unknown Soldier (which have been filmed 3 times/versions and focuses on Continuation war)

... but it is still pretty good.

And there are others like Ambush
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambush_(1999_film)

Or Tali-Ihantala
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tali-Ihantala_1944

Warning: None of Finland's war films (above) are action stars (Stallone/Schwarzenegger etc.) type of war films. Finns films describes war and fates of people pretty realistic eyes.

SmithSwede · « **Reply #17 on:** February 16, 2021, 05:23:57 PM »

Thanks Artic Fox. Much appreciated.

Arctic Fox · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2021, 03:09:26 PM »

Quote from: SmithSwede on February 16, 2021, 05:23:57 PM

Thanks Artic Fox. Much appreciated.

You're wellcome. I'm basically Swede (dual nationality), but Finland is my home country.

I did not go to army (which is voluntary for girls here), but I have once tested Finland's military stock as civilian ... and passed it. Not bad for 1,64cm tall.
Officers said I was great ... my time ... probably meant more my swear words

.

Opposite I have voluntary been trained for nursing etc (possible crises). You never know ...

To rest ... Sorry for this off topic.

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Author Topic: The Winter War (Read 2167 times)