Bad acceleration through gears

[Tom]

IIRC lad has a '96 1100i.  The fuel filter also fits Porsche 944.  Probably other same generation German autos.  UFI Filters are Italian in origin.  Probably oem one that you have.  More than likely the oem one is Italian made.  They like other manufacturers have plants making them in other countries.  USA, Italy & China.  I highly doubt that the oem you have is "Chinese" or American.  Almost all of the UFI made in China is for domestic and Asian consumption. 

[lad]

I highly doubt that the oem you have is "Chinese" or American.  Almost all of the UFI made in China is for domestic and Asian consumption.

Ok, point made. I just figured it was cheap because when I searched from the partslist (GU29106061) I came up with this Weber filter:





and the UFI was listed as a replacement.

Either way, if it's a stock Italian UFI it has no place on a bike with 47,xxxKm on the clock. (It is a '96 cali 1100i)

[Huzo]

Maybe someone covered this already.
I would replace the filter just because it feels good, but you say there is good acceleration on the other side of 3,000 rpm so I cannot see how it can be a filter.
If there is enough flow to give good performance up high, it’s not going to be sub standard at 3,000...

[Tom]

Hope you get it running right soon.   

[lad]

Maybe someone covered this already.
I would replace the filter just because it feels good, but you say there is good acceleration on the other side of 3,000 rpm so I cannot see how it can be a filter.
If there is enough flow to give good performance up high, it’s not going to be sub standard at 3,000...

Well...that's what I'm expecting, but you never know! I still have 2 options left after the filter anyway, or 3 if you include driving it off a cliff?

[lad]

Well, it still drives terribly. I'd nearly say it's worse.

There's a spot in all the gears, if you hold it there it's like being on a bucking-broncho horse-ride thing.

Really low idle now also, like, 500-600rpm.

Little clacky sound from the cylinder heads when the idle is that low, is that the sound of happy-tappy valves?

Not sure should I mess with the idle, or get guzzi diag, or the trim on the ECU, or hand it over to a professional....no guzzi guys near me though.

Going to clean the sensors and double-check the TPS reading for now 

[lad]

I would start with cleaning the timing sensors.

Do you know which sensors these are? I see a few

on the left there's two on the front:





and one on the cylinder head:





and one around the clutch (?) on the right:





wire going down the front too...

[guzzisteve]

In 1st pic oil pressure is upper & cam timing(for ignition) is on bottom- may have metal slivers on it.
2nd pic is oil temp
3rd pic is crank timing--- may have metal slivers on it
4th pic is altenator

[pehayes]

I said it way back in the beginning.  Its a dirty TPS.  It lives below the throttle body.  Fuel mist condenses and drips down inside, evaporates, leaves gum residue.  Easy enough to drill a tiny hole and spray tuner cleaner inside.  Transforms performance.  You have to learn where and how to test for TPS voltage.

Or buy a new TPS.

I've just been through the exact symptoms on 98EV.  I knew what do do and its good as new.

If you lot would lift quarantine rules, I'd fly over to Shannon and do it for you in exchange for a pint.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[lad]

In 1st pic oil pressure is upper & cam timing(for ignition) is on bottom- may have metal slivers on it.
2nd pic is oil temp
3rd pic is crank timing--- may have metal slivers on it
4th pic is altenator

Thanks! So clean the cam and crank timing and watch for slivers...?

[lad]

I said it way back in the beginning.  Its a dirty TPS.  It lives below the throttle body.  Fuel mist condenses and drips down inside, evaporates, leaves gum residue.  Easy enough to drill a tiny hole and spray tuner cleaner inside.  Transforms performance.  You have to learn where and how to test for TPS voltage.

Or buy a new TPS.

I've just been through the exact symptoms on 98EV.  I knew what do do and its good as new.

If you lot would lift quarantine rules, I'd fly over to Shannon and do it for you in exchange for a pint.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

The dream.

You did say drill a hole, and I have a new TPS on order, i'm just trying to get a well rounded opinion but also do things one at a time just in case it's something else.

[John A]

I would start with the sensor on the flywheel, it’s easier to get to and lives in a dirty environment with metal stuff from the starter teeth on the ring gear. Look for shims and put them back the same. If that’s not it, then the one on the left front of the engine. No need to fool with any other sensors. If it was me, I’d clean the flywheel sensor, then replace the tps and then if it’s not cured, the front sensor.

[fotoguzzi]

The rear sensor is in a dry environment so there's a lot of "swarf" that can accumulate on it, the front sensor is inside the oil mist of the block so less likely to attract cludge to block it up.

Have you messed with the trim dial on the side of the computer box? It's covered by a rubber plug, I wouldn't screw that until last resort unless it's already been molested.
I think you can trigger a faulty code that might shed some light on the source if it's one of the sensors. Do you have the fuel injection supplement manual? That covers the procedure for reading those fault codes.

http://dpguzzi.com/efiman.pdf

[lad]

The rear sensor is in a dry environment so there's a lot of "swarf" that can accumulate on it, the front sensor is inside the oil mist of the block so less likely to attract cludge to block it up.

Have you messed with the trim dial on the side of the computer box? It's covered by a rubber plug, I wouldn't screw that until last resort unless it's already been molested.
I think you can trigger a faulty code that might shed some light on the source if it's one of the sensors. Do you have the fuel injection supplement manual? That covers the procedure for reading those fault codes.

http://dpguzzi.com/efiman.pdf

I don't have the Diagnostic connections yet, but I'll order them in the mean time. Haven't touched that trim dial at all

[lad]

cam timing(for ignition) is on bottom- may have metal slivers on it.

3rd pic is crank timing--- may have metal slivers on it

so the cam was dirty but no slivers...





it scrubbed up nicely though...





and the crank was just a bit oily but clean and without slivers





I didn't notice shims on either of them, unless they're welded to the frame/sensor housing. Hopefully they weren't lost if any PO went at them

[lad]

Diag cables on the way anyway

[Tom H]

As mentioned the front sensor may have shims. But....It seems that many did not have shims. It's just something to watch for.

I can't remember if you ever tested the voltage of the TPS to see if it advanced smoothly?

Good luck,
Tom

[lad]

As mentioned the front sensor may have shims. But....It seems that many did not have shims. It's just something to watch for.

I can't remember if you ever tested the voltage of the TPS to see if it advanced smoothly?

Good luck,
Tom

I did, there were some jumps but the nice people on the forum said it was still linear, it's buried in the other thread I posted at the start of this one. Kind of feels like it's at the same point in the throttle though, like 1/4 open, which might lean toward TPS issue. Anyway, it's my next stop, so the mystery will be resolved after that, keep that popcorn on simmer

[Tom H]

If you want to know where it is twist grip wise. Put a piece of masking/painters/paper type tape on the throttle about 2 inches long right next to the rubber grip. Then put just a small piece on the rubber grip. Take a marking pen and put a mark on the long tape and small tape with throttle off. Then turn it to W/O and put another mark on the long tape. Now guestimate the middle of the two marks on the long tape and mark. Now you have half marked. Put two more to make quarters.

Now when you go down the road you can WHEN SAFE look to see where the problem is at least per the twist grip.

Tom

[Huzo]

I would want to know if it is at a particular throttle position or a typical rpm figure.
30% throttle will be 5,000 rpm in neutral, but 3,000 rpm under load in top gear. If it’s TPS it’ll be at a particular THROTTLE POSITION not a particular RPM or SPEED.
You need to isolate the parameters under which you can replicate the anomaly.

[ejs]

Same symptoms I had on my EV.The small tps.
A little part of carbon track was weared out. Were the tps sleeper is at 50 km in 3.gear

[pehayes]

A little part of carbon track was weared out.

While damage and failure are a true possibility (it is a sliding internal part after all), it is far more likely that the TPS is just dirty and corrupting or inhibiting the voltage signal to the CPU.  Thus, it can usually be cleaned and restored to service by drilling a hole, spraying tuner cleaner or DeOxit inside, working it around, blowing it out, and covering the drill hole with good tape.  Works for me.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Tom]

   me too. 

[Vagrant]

My experience with 170,000 miles of EV seat time is cleaning works 50% of the time. But it is basically free so always worth trying.

[s1120]

My experience with 170,000 miles of EV seat time is cleaning works 50% of the time. But it is basically free so always worth trying.

Is there a post or tip on where to drill the hole? I have 02 and while it checks out OK with a VOM, sometimes I get a throttle hickup.

[lad]

Is there a post or tip on where to drill the hole? I have 02 and while it checks out OK with a VOM, sometimes I get a throttle hickup.

Patrick put up pictures on the first thread that I linked at the start of this one, but that's 5 pages long now, if I had to guess...it's on page 2

[lad]

If you want to know where it is twist grip wise. Put a piece of masking/painters/paper type tape on the throttle about 2 inches long right next to the rubber grip. Then put just a small piece on the rubber grip. Take a marking pen and put a mark on the long tape and small tape with throttle off. Then turn it to W/O and put another mark on the long tape. Now guestimate the middle of the two marks on the long tape and mark. Now you have half marked. Put two more to make quarters.

Now when you go down the road you can WHEN SAFE look to see where the problem is at least per the twist grip.

Tom

Must do this on my next spin (sensor test), just to be sure to be sure to be sure. Then I'll drill the TPS because I don't know when my new one is getting here.

[lad]

Is there a post or tip on where to drill the hole? I have 02 and while it checks out OK with a VOM, sometimes I get a throttle hickup.

This was what he said, straight forward stuff

I think you have the same TPS as my 98EV.  You can drill a hole as shown here by the little white spot.   Spray in 'tuner cleaner', work the pivot, blow it out with air.  Rinse and repeat.





Maybe I'll come over and set it up for you!!!!

Patrick Hayes
Fremont, CA

[s1120]

Nice. Thanks!! 

[lad]

eh....

Have i been duped? Why is the PF09 about 12 times bigger than the PFC3?





That's apparently the one for my frame number, but evidently they're not interchangeable? The thick plottens.

Pain in the ass. Guess i'm drilling and hoping