Bad acceleration through gears

[lad]

Been reading this and the other thread ... might have missed this, but ... did you buy this and it was running this way at purchase time?

Or did it run fine for some number of months/miles and then started acting up more and more?   Or was it running fine and then one day it started running bad like it is now?

Have you had any discussions with the previous owner?   Be interesting to hear if they did some strange throttle body swap or this area has been worked on and parts replaced before.

Hope the drill and clean TPS works for you!

I bought it like this, the PO didn't clock it, and I didn't take it for a test because he was fairly experienced, but I don't think he took he opened it up, just a few casual spins around his area. He only did minor service work, I think it was changed hands a few times before that and the trail runs cold, swapped PX with a car dealer before him, and was decommissioned in Berlin in 2011...that's all I got.

[lad]

Here's GuzziDiag rubbing it in my face!




show me my pictures


No option for a P8 with a PF3C 

[pehayes]

No option for a P8 with a PF3C 

Is there an option for '97 1100i?  Use that.  If not, your components would work with '98EV in GuzziDiag.

PS: Hoisting my tricolor today for the week.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[lad]

Is there an option for '97 1100i?  Use that.  If not, your components would work with '98EV in GuzziDiag.

PS: Hoisting my tricolor today for the week.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Good man, not a lot being hoisted here except people's frustration, but that's life.

There's a <2001 EV, but still says it's P8 PF09, maybe it'll change when I connect it

[lad]

well,

the TPS drill-spray-rinse tactic didn’t work, i’d go as far as to say it’s worse now.

strangely, I set the mv again but on guzzidiag it was reading higher, not that i can trust that yet.

idle is gone way down, like 6 or 7 hundred.

not sure what to do, reset the whole injection? valves? swap out bodies to accommodate the P8+PF09 combo? Fuel pump? fuel pump is really loud but maybe that’s the way it is. Diag i’m still working on, not
sure i have the right version and there’s no option for my setup, still it says there’re no faults anyway

When does the fun start?

[pehayes]

fuel pump is really loud but maybe that’s the way it is.

That is a big hint.  Remind us.  Did you ever remove and drain the tank?  Clean it out with a little bit of fresh fuel?  Did you remove the petcocks from the tank?

A loud pump is characteristic of fuel intake restriction.  While the FI  system has a huge filter under the tank, the pump is fed through the petcocks. Each petcock has a screen filter the diameter of a pencil and about 2" long.  Any debris in the tank will slosh around and quickly plug the screens.  Pump works harder and harder to suck fuel past the debris.  Perhaps are hoses upstream on the suction side deteriorated and collapsing interior?  Perhaps is the round seal inside the petcock torn up and blocking a flow passage?

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[fotoguzzi]

The fun started this morning, happy st Patrick's day!

[pehayes]

strangely, I set the mv again but on guzzidiag it was reading higher, not that i can trust that yet.
idle is gone way down, like 6 or 7 hundred.

In order to set the TPS baseline, you have to disconnect cross  linkage and also fully back out the throttle body idle screw so that the butterfly closes completely.  Only then can you set the TPS at 150mV.  Now, connect the linkage and screw the throttle body idle screw back in until the TPS is now reading around 400 mV.  Did you perhaps leave the idle screw backed out?  I can't see why a cleaned and reset TPS would cause a substantially lower rpm.

Do you have a new TPS on order?

Sure wish I could lay hands on this one.  :-(

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Tom H]

I think I brought this up before. Your recent post, I'm not sure if you used a multi meter or Guzzidiad to set the TPS voltage. Don't use Guzzidaig to set the voltage.

Give this a read, probably again, to see where your at. The write up is mainly for a 15m and pf3, but overall applicable to the P8 and the pf3 TB's.

https://archive.guzzitech.com/EVTuneup-Jeff_B.html

Sorry to hear of more troubles
Tom

[Vagrant]

Also buy a real multi-meter. the free harbor freight units are inaccurate from my experience.

[lad]

Also buy a real multi-meter. the free harbor freight units are inaccurate from my experience.

It's not harbour freight, not sure if it's ''real'', seems to work ok though

[lad]

I think I brought this up before. Your recent post, I'm not sure if you used a multi meter or Guzzidiad to set the TPS voltage. Don't use Guzzidaig to set the voltage.

Give this a read, probably again, to see where your at. The write up is mainly for a 15m and pf3, but overall applicable to the P8 and the pf3 TB's.

https://archive.guzzitech.com/EVTuneup-Jeff_B.html

Sorry to hear of more troubles
Tom

Setting the whole thing from scratch seems to be the way to go, to learn the system and potentially fix the problem. Not sure if the PF3C is even compatible with a P8 ECU, or if the TPS is even working, but at least I'll learn something.

I'll get some cylinder-gaskets and check those valves first...

[lad]

That is a big hint.  Remind us.  Did you ever remove and drain the tank?  Clean it out with a little bit of fresh fuel?  Did you remove the petcocks from the tank?

I did remove the tank, blasted it with a few nights of electrolysis, rebuilt the petcocks, cleaned their strainers, added new fuel with injector-cleaner. Then changed fuel filter.
A loud pump is characteristic of fuel intake restriction

I meant to say it's just loud when priming, not sure if there're different levels of loud that would suggest anything. I reckon if you had pump trouble you'd know about it more than just wavy acceleration during part of the gear? Maybe not.


Did you perhaps leave the idle screw backed out?  I can't see why a cleaned and reset TPS would cause a substantially lower rpm.

I only set the higher mv, presuming the arms and stops were all ok, maybe they were not, i'll start from scratch this time

Do you have a new TPS on order?

I don't, I didn't think they were available, only a HD one or a 2nd hand. I still have faith in it, I'll do the baseline method first and then look for a replacement

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[pehayes]

Setting the whole thing from scratch seems to be the way to go, to learn the system and potentially fix the problem. Not sure if the PF3C is even compatible with a P8 ECU, or if the TPS is even working, but at least I'll learn something.

I'll get some cylinder-gaskets and check those valves first...

You mean valve cover gaskets, not cylinder gaskets.
You have two manual petcocks.  Are you opening both?
Yes, the PF3C is proper for the P8.  That is exactly the normal pairing on the '98EV.
Yes, the PF3C is available from the after-market.  I just bought one from Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Throttle-Position-Sensor-Potentiometer-California/dp/B07ZQM66J1/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=pf3c&qid=1616105133&sr=8-1

I looked on Amazon.co.uk and nothing is listed.  I don't think Ireland has a unique Amazon site.

Someone nice in the USA could buy one and ship it to you.  Probably jacks up the postage a bit.  A traveler could hand carry it if you know anyone eligible to travel now.

I would be happy to fly over and  hand deliver.  But, you would have to quarantine me at your house for 14 days and I suspect you would tip the Guzzi before that duration ran out.   

Lastly, setting the TPS base is really important and a fundamental start to diagnostics.  The running TPS voltage is really meaningless if the base point isn't accurate.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Tom H]

What Patrick said about P8 and PF3C. Yes they work together. This is just for a second opinion.

The link for Amazon. I have used the USA site and bought from Amazon UK. The very few times I did at about $20 USD, no import fees, at least with Amazon Prime. "Prime" Amazons discount subscription that gets you more free shipping's and such. You may be able to use your country's Amazon site to buy from the USA? Or even go to the USA site??

The Amazon link for the PF3C is from ca cycleworks. They have a web site to buy from. Price is the same for the AFTERMARKET (I believe) part. No idea what they would charge to send it to you???

Again, Good Luck and ask away!!!
Tom

PS: I had to get up to speed with FI when I bought my EVT that had been well messed with before I bought it. With the help here, it's now a sweet bike!!

[lad]

Well, at least at bit of 'undefined' clarity from Dave Richardson's Guzziology, I guess it is in a grey area...





Gives me a bit of hope that it's not some frankenstein job and is just not set up right

[John A]

You will be a better motorcycle rider, knowing this much about your equipment. You will have success and we’re here for questions.

[lad]

 

You will be a better motorcycle rider, knowing this much about your equipment. You will have success and we’re here for questions.

[lad]

i set the mv a bit lower there, around. to 365, (typed.565 first) and it drove slightly better. even the idle was a bit higher (somehow?)

i did watch the numbers again as i opened the throttle, this time extremely slowly, and there are two points where the numbers go backwards, around 2.8 and 3.4 volts, ive done it with a few different throttle grips and it happens every time. I wonder if that’s the issue? Bad TPS one might say

[ejs]

i set the mv a bit lower there, around.565, and it drove slightly better. even the idle was a bit higher (somehow?)

i did watch the numbers again as i opened the throttle, this time extremely slowly, and there are two points where the numbers go backwards, around 2.8 and 3.4 volts, ive done it with a few different throttle grips and it happens every time. I wonder if that’s the issue? Bad TPS one might say

  Mv at idle should be ca 380.🐧

[lad]

  Mv at idle should be ca 380.🐧

sorry. meant 365. between 360 and 385 i was told

[pehayes]

i did watch the numbers again as i opened the throttle, this time extremely slowly, and there are two points where the numbers go backwards, around 2.8 and 3.4 volts, ive done it with a few different throttle grips and it happens every time. I wonder if that’s the issue? Bad TPS one might say

LAD, you may have watched this before, but go back and watch again.  CA-Cycleworks built a test bench to test and report on TPS quality/accuracy.  The device produces a paper print to show the ramp of voltage as the TPS is rotated.  Watch particularly at 5 min, 13 min, and 17 min to see obvious data issues.  Really quite enlightening.  I recently bought one of their PF3C units and it came packaged with a nice, clean data output print specific to that unit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZK9fVvNaC4

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[lad]

LAD, you may have watched this before, but go back and watch again.  CA-Cycleworks built a test bench to test and report on TPS quality/accuracy.  The device produces a paper print to show the ramp of voltage as the TPS is rotated.  Watch particularly at 5 min, 13 min, and 17 min to see obvious data issues.  Really quite enlightening.  I recently bought one of their PF3C units and it came packaged with a nice, clean data output print specific to that unit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZK9fVvNaC4

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

nice! hadn’t seen that. my graph would probably look like a middle finger

[Tom]

When you finally get your bike "dialed in", do some long term riding.  I think you mentioned modifying the bottom end.  Don't.  Lightening the flywheel won't benefit you for the type of riding that you'll do.  I live on an island too. 

The island of Hawaii.  It's way smaller but the terrain is similar to the lake area around the factory in Mandello del Lario where.  5th gear is overdrive that I use at 70+ mph.  2nd - 3rd gear is around town.  4th is above 45mph.  Keep the rpm's up around 4K and your bike will pull when you need it.

[lad]

I think you mentioned modifying the bottom end.  Don't.  Lightening the flywheel won't benefit you for the type of riding that you'll do.

different thread id say. i have no plans to lighten the bottom end. wouldn’t even know how. hawaii though! please can i visit you

[Tom]

There's a line.     JJ is in there someplace.   

[lad]

is it over now? can we go home?

[Tom H]

Hopefully that fixes your problem. Remember to read up on how to set it up. Take your time when doing it.

Tom

[charlieswee]

Is that how the story ends? Feels like I read a novel only to discover that last chapter was torn out of the book.  :-(