Lean angle

[bacongrease]

  With nothing to think about while napping, I got to pondering:  what is the most lean angle on a Moto Guzzi Stone. 2004?? 
 I have a HD FXRS, designed by Buell, the claimed lean angle is 45 Degrees. 
 Not that I will be testing that.   
 Will not test the Stone lean angle either.     
On a side note, I wonder what MG has the most lean angle ? ?

[Huzo]

It will be different in motion as opposed to static.
When moving in a circular path, the force acting down through the machine compresses the suspension. Also there is the variation in the load, both of these combine to “squash” the bike towards the contact patch.
In a 45 degree banked turn, the bike and rider combination weigh 1.4 times normal.
The lean “angle” is not altered by the mass, but the compressing of the suspension effectively reduces the ground clearance, so the first part of the substructure will touch down earlier.

[Kev m]

  With nothing to think about while napping, I got to pondering:  what is the most lean angle on a Moto Guzzi Stone. 2004?? 
 I have a HD FXRS, designed by Buell, the claimed lean angle is 45 Degrees. 
 Not that I will be testing that.   
 Will not test the Stone lean angle either.     
On a side note, I wonder what MG has the most lean angle ? ?

No Harley has had that sort of lean angle the last decade or almost two other than the XR/XRX 1200 and I assume the new Pan Am.

For the last few decades the best you could hope for stock was about 32 degrees each side by most of the FLH models (unless lowered) and a few degrees less than that on a lot of the other models. Some, like the Sportster Roadsters, or a few of the Dyna and new Softails came close to or matched that.

I'd expect your Stone was more than that 32 and maybe even approached that 45.

[Huzo]

No Harley has had that sort of lean angle the last decade or almost two other than the XR/XRX 1200 and I assume the new Pan Am.

For the last few decades the best you could hope for stock was about 32 degrees each side by most of the FLH models (unless lowered) and a few degrees less than that on a lot of the other models. Some, like the Sportster Roadsters, or a few of the Dyna and new Softails came close to or matched that.

I'd expect your Stone was more than that 32 and maybe even approached that 45.

Is that static unladen Kev ?

[Kev m]

Is that static unladen Kev ?

You'll have to ask Harley. They published the spec. Indian does to but I'm not sure I've ever noticed a footnote giving the measurement conditions. Which is interesting because Harley is one of the only manufacturers I've ever noticed that gives both laden and unladen seat heights. In that case I believe the standard is with preload properly adjusted for a 180# rider.

[Huzo]

This sounds a lot like "what is the glide ratio of an unladen swallow". (I'll know who gets the correct response.)

John Henry

Actually max glide ratio does not change with load.
It only alters the airspeed at which that ratio is achieved. An open class sailplane will achieve 50:1 easily without water at about 65 knots, it will achieve that same figure at 90 knots full of water.

[giusto]

This sounds a lot like "what is the glide ratio of an unladen swallow". (I'll know who gets the correct response.)

John Henry

European or African?......are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?

[fotoguzzi]

An open class sailplane

AKA a glider

[oldbike54]

European or African?......are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?

 Not at all , they could be carried .

 Dusty

[oldbike54]

So, if a European or African swallow was carrying a coconut, how much lean angle before they tip stall?

John Henry

 Are the Swallows flying side by side or fore and aft ?

 Dusty

[73 sport]

     I don't understand where we digressed from saurkraut and wienerschnitzel.

[oldbike54]

     I don't understand where we digressed from saurkraut and wienerschnitzel.

 It's because  Nate The Snake pulled the lever that controls the rotation of the Earth around the Sun .

 Dusty

[oldbike54]

Well, you can put wings and tail feathers on a weinerschnitzel. Much more difficult with sauerkraut.

Noe coconuts on the other hand...

John Henry

 Do these flying coconuts have lime in them ?

 Dusty

[LowRyter]

This seems at best a "theoretical" statistic that could be solved by a simple test ride.   

[Kev m]

This seems at best a "theoretical" statistic that could be solved by a simple test ride.

 

[oldbike54]

This seems at best a "theoretical" statistic that could be solved by a simple test ride.

 Well maybe , there is the problem of finding someone fleet of foot who owns a large protractor .

 Dusty

[Gliderjohn]

From Huzo:

It will be different in motion as opposed to static.
When moving in a circular path, the force acting down through the machine compresses the suspension. Also there is the variation in the load, both of these combine to “squash” the bike towards the contact patch.
In a 45 degree banked turn, the bike and rider combination weigh 1.4 times normal.
The lean “angle” is not altered by the mass, but the compressing of the suspension effectively reduces the ground clearance, so the first part of the substructure will touch down earlier.

Have regularly done 60 degree ongoing banks in tight but powerful thermals. The G even though fairly mild relatively speaking (Get some time in a Pitts if you want to feel real G) still gets your attention. In an aircraft I guess I have always expected a G effect, but my Norge is the first bike I have owned that could do some serious cornering and make one feel some G effect which at first was kind of disconcerting. Two dimensional flying is better than no flying at all. 
GliderJohn

[Scout63]

I’ve achieved lean angles over 90 degrees on a Honda and two BMW’s.  Great bikes all.

[oldbike54]

I’ve achieved lean angles over 90 degrees on a Honda and two BMW’s.  Great bikes all.

 So you've crashed a Honda and two Beemers ?

 Dusty

[antmanbee]

These are the specs for a Norge from the Michigan state police vehicle tests. Lean angle of 45 deg. I didn't find any info on the stone.

MAKE Moto Guzzi MODEL Norge 1200 ABS SALES CODE NO.
ENGINE DISPLACEMENT CUBIC CENTIMETERS 1151CC ENGINE 90° V-Twin, 4-Stroke
FUEL SYSTEM Fuel Injection EXHAUST 2 into 1 Stainless Dual Lambda
BORE & STROKE 95 mm X 81.2 mm ALTERNATOR 12V – 540 W
TORQUE 90CV at 7500 RPM BATTERY 12V-18 Amp/h
COMPRESSION RATIO 9.8:1
TRANSMISSION Mechanical 6 gear with pedal lever
on the left side of the engine PRIMARY DRIVE 24/35
GEAR RATIO 1
st: 17/38; 2nd: 20/34; 3rd: 23/31; 4th: 26/29; 5th: 31/30; 6th: 29/25
Secondary Drive: 12/44 (Cardan)
LEAN ANGLE LEFT 45° RIGHT 45°
CLUTCH Dry Dual Disc
WHEELS/TIRES Wheels: Alloy (Front Rim 3.5” x 17”, Rear Rim 5.5” x 17”)
Tires: Front 120/70ZR17 – Rear 180/55ZR17
FRONT SUSPENSION FORK ANGLE 25.30° RAKE 32°
REAR SUSPENSION Single sided with progressive linkage, single shock absorber with adjustable rebound,
adjustable preload settings with ergonomic handle
SUSPENSION TRAVEL FRONT 4.7 inches REAR 5.5 inches
GROUND CLEARANCE, MINIMUM 72.8 inches
BRAKE SYSTEM
BRAKES, FRONT Dual stainless steel floating disc brake diameter – 320 mm – 4 paired differentiated
calipers
BRAKES, REAR Stainless steel disc brake diameter – 282 mm – parallel dual calipers
FUEL CAPACITY GALLONS 6 gallons LITERS 23 liters
OIL CAPACITY
GENERAL MEASUREMENTS
WHEELBASE 58.9 inches LENGTH 86.4 inches
TEST WEIGHT 673 pounds OVERALL HEIGHT 55.3 inches
SEAT HEIGHT 31.5 inches
EPA MILEAGE EST. (MPG)
(Based on *FTP Standard Test) CITY 28.1 MPG HIGHWAY 37.6 MPG COMBINED 39.3 MPG

[Scout63]

Well actually a Honda and the same R100 twice Dusty. And a KZ400 that I just remembered. I didn’t think to calculate max operational lean angle at the time.  They all happened sort of quickly.

[oldbike54]

Well actually a Honda and the same R100 twice Dusty. And a KZ400 that I just remembered. I didn’t think to calculate max operational lean angle at the time.  They all happened sort of quickly.

 Yeah , that's been my experience , be ba de ba dee , whump 

 Dusty

[Kev m]

Well actually a Honda and the same R100 twice Dusty. And a KZ400 that I just remembered. I didn’t think to calculate max operational lean angle at the time.  They all happened sort of quickly.

Maybe my geometry is  rusty, but I don't see how an Airhead ever makes it to 90°.

I seem to remember a buddy once making it to around maybe 75-80° when the cylinder head touched down and helped lever the rear wheel off the ground. Then they both sorta spiraled down the road but the Airhead was still pivoting in the cylinder head which was keeping it from full horizontal.

[reidy]

Maybe my geometry is  rusty, but I don't see how an Airhead ever makes it to 90°.

So you have never high sided a BMW. 

[oldbike54]

Maybe my geometry is  rusty, but I don't see how an Airhead ever makes it to 90°.

I seem to remember a buddy once making it to around maybe 75-80° when the cylinder head touched down and helped lever the rear wheel off the ground. Then they both sorta spiraled down the road but the Airhead was still pivoting in the cylinder head which was keeping it from full horizontal.

 Marc Marquez can generate almost 70 degrees of lean angle , sport bikes can generate slightly over 45 degrees .

 Dusty

[Scout63]

I stand corrected Kev. It just felt like more when I was staring at the sky.  Seems logical that the Guzzi has more lean than most bikes but I won’t be the person to find out.

[Kev m]

I stand corrected Kev. It just felt like more when I was staring at the sky.  Seems logical that the Guzzi has more lean than most bikes but I won’t be the person to find out.

Oh not trying to be pedantic here or anything. I have no idea what has the most angle, and I believe dusty's # about sport bikes. It's just "funny" how an R-bike has that little "impediment" to lying completely on either side.

[timmythecop]

Some say he used to lean in a straight line..........

[Moparnut72]

Oh not trying to be pedantic here or anything. I have no idea what has the most angle, and I believe dusty's # about sport bikes. It's just "funny" how an R-bike has that little "impediment" to lying completely on either side.

They were designed that way to keep your leg from getting caught when you fall over.   
I  know I had several Airheads.
kk

[SmithSwede]

As a general rule, Guzzis have good cornering clearance.   Very different from most Harleys. 

A 45 degree lean angle corresponds to 1.0g of cornering force, which is pretty dang good for a street machine with regular tires on a non-track surface. 

Empirical testing from the 1920s establishes that most people feel psychologically “safe” when experiencing a g force of 0.2 while cornering in a car.   So most roads and speed limits are designed loosely around that standard (lots of exceptions for mountain roads).

I’ve read that humans are instinctively fearful of a “lean angle” greater than 22 degrees.   That the sort of slope where human feet often slip, or the upright body falls down, so we are programmed to be leery past 22 degrees.    That’s likely why maybe riders crash in curves that their bike and tires could have negotiated—their brains told them not to be leaning more than 22 degrees.   

They make a gizmo you can mount on the handlebars to determine g forces and lean angles.   I had one once on my V7, which I usually ride pretty conservatively.   It spent most of its life reporting lean angles of 20 to 25 degrees.   

To get into the 30s you needed curvy mountain roads ridden considerably above the advisory speed limits.  In the 30s you feel like you are definitely leaning and working the bike.   It felt like “spirited riding,” but essentially safe and controlled. 

At least for me, getting into the low 40s felt like pushing too far on a public road.  I think I was approaching a limit, but I didn’t crash or slide, so maybe there was more margin.   You would have to be a pretty aggressive rider to routinely ride in the 40s


http://ridewithtech.com/tech-gadgets/the-leanometer/