Breva 1200 sport Died and wont start

[scate]

Need a little help.

Bike in question is a 2008 Breva 1200 sport


The owner of this bike is an acquaintance of mine and the bike was a running bike prior to repairs done.  The bike ran great but 3 miles down the road at which point it died and hasnt started again.  The bike will crank but does not start.  My first instinct was to go over what was last touched but not finding anything that could have caused the issue.

Error codes P0351 Left coil short circuit to battery positive, P0352 Right coil short circuit to battery positive

Repairs done:

First thing that was done was replacing a clutch lever after she dropped it in the driveway (pretty straight forward repair).

Second was to replace her oil pressure sensor.  She was getting a random error light that came and went but wasn’t throwing a code.  After some research she thought it was worth replacing to see if the sensor was the culprit.

To replace the sensor, I had to change out the connector to match the new style sensor.  I also removed the revolution sensor to make access to the pressure sensor easier.

Everything seems good here.  The revolution senor is recognized and throws a code if disconnected and diagnostic software sees rpms as the engine is cranking.

Battery was also replaced.  Battery was weak and could only start the bike once or twice without recharging. Bike was started multiple times with no issues with new battery.

After repairs bike ran but died about 3 miles from home.

Diagnosing Codes:

Ive tested both positive sides on the plugs going to each coil.  I took a light tester to the positive wire of the coil plug and went to battery ground.  At start up the light flips on then off when you hear the relay click, and lights up when cranking the motor.

However on the negative side. Taking the light tester from positive battery to negative wire of coil plug I get no light.  The ecu doesn’t seem to be giving me the ground I need.

At this point Im thinking a bad ecu or ground wire from ecu.

I haven’t gotten a chance to look to deeply at the ecu.  It appears the ecu ground is blue green wire and is bolted to the under side of the ecu?  From this bolt to battery ground I have continuity.

Just wanting to get others point of view on this.  Thanks for the help.

[SLDMRossi]

Mine 1200 Sport wouldn't start for a while either. Why? Because the fuel gauge stuck! So it read half full, but the tank was bone dry...

Steven Rossi

[scate]

Thats the first thing I looked at but could here some fuel in it,  It wasnt full but did have a bit and read half as well.  Once I towed it home is when I pulled the codes and they keep coming back even after deleting

[Tkelly]

I had that problem on a couple of California’s and it was a bad crankshaft sensor I think.

[RinkRat II]

       Just thinkin' out loud, did the clutch lever have a ball and spring to activate the clutch switch? maybe the ball escaped. My $.02

         Paul B

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

       Just thinkin' out loud, did the clutch lever have a ball and spring to activate the clutch switch? maybe the ball escaped. My $.02

         Paul B

thats a hell of a theory, I like it. But the Breva will start in neutral without the clutch pulled, so i'm going to say no dice on that one

[scate]

Sorry guys for the late response. 

New update.  I got a spark tool to gauge spark.  Spark seems good, so I shot some starter fluid down the intake and the bike started right up.  Now onto why its not getting fuel.

[Huzo]

Hose burst off the fuel pump.
Split plastic fuel filter.
Pump not running...relay.
Does the pump make the whirring noise when you turn the key ?
Disconnect injector/s and crank the starter, see if fuel comes out of the injector/s.
For heaven’s sake, keep them away from the plugs...

[scate]

I can here the whirl of the pump when I turn the key on.  I disconnected the fuel hose when flipping on the key but no fuel pumps out.

[delrod]

The Norge fuel hose and filters have been known to come apart. Remove fuel cap, turn key on if you see fuel swirling when pump runs then that is likely what has happened

[delrod]

The Norge fuel hose and filters have been known to come apart. Remove fuel cap, turn key on if you see fuel swirling when pump runs then that is likely what has happened

Applies to Breva as well

[guzzisteve]

The ECU ground is a known issue, under steering head in frame. Take off cover. The terminal connector for the screw have a weak crimp to wire. Worth checking out. You already thought of it.

[Kiwi_Roy]

First of all my thoughts are leaning towards the engine Revolution Sensor, did it go back in with the shims exactly how it came out?
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2007_Norge_ABS.gif I think I have the right drawing if not please pick another from Carl's.
See relay (30), pin 3 and the Red/Black wire feeds all the important stuff like injectors, coils and pump, it's nice to know what that's doing, it will pulse for a couple of seconds by a timer when you turn the key ON but after that it needs the timing sensor to be working. If you can attach a small bulb to that wire it might be revealing. I sometimes attach a permanent light there at the relay socket. If this light is ON you also know the other ECU relay aka Injection Relay (29) is ON because it feeds the coil of (30). As GuzziSteve points out the ECU ground is pretty important, see that also grounds the pump and a couple of other vital parts as well as the ECU.

[antmanbee]

If the engine sensor is bad you will not get fuel or spark. The ECU depends on this signal to control spark and fuel.
The bike has spark.
If he can hear the pump and no fuel comes out from a hose that is disconnected at the injector then the problem is in the tank as someone else has said.
Most likely a split hose or filter.

[Kiwi_Roy]

If the engine sensor is bad you will not get fuel or spark. The ECU depends on this signal to control spark and fuel.
The bike has spark.
If he can hear the pump and no fuel comes out from a hose that is disconnected at the injector then the problem is in the tank as someone else has said.
Most likely a split hose or filter.

You are probably right, I always approach a problem from the electrical end, its so much easier to prove besides we are not getting fuel, its pretty hard to hear the pump while its cranking. The pump will always run when you first turn the key ON, that a just a timer in the ECU. Could it also be as simple as the hose quick connect or pump plug didn't get re-connected after a tank off?

[antmanbee]

Could it also be as simple as the hose quick connect or pump plug didn't get re-connected after a tank off?

If that was the case I don't think it would have run for a few miles before it died.
He could also pull an injector and hook up Guzzi Diag and then test pulse the injector to see if it is spraying.
My guess is he needs to pull the tank and remove the pump/filter assembly and the problem will be apparent.

[Kiwi_Roy]

If that was the case I don't think it would have run for a few miles before it died.
He could also pull an injector and hook up Guzzi Diag and then test pulse the injector to see if it is spraying.
My guess is he needs to pull the tank and remove the pump/filter assembly and the problem will be apparent.

I'll put my money on the sensor then. And we still haven't resolved the ECU ground.
Unplugged
Wrong gap
Expired
My simple light would prove that, in hind site I would tap into the connector where the pump plugs in, a permanent 12V LED

[Chuck in Indiana]

I can here the whirl of the pump when I turn the key on.  I disconnected the fuel hose when flipping on the key but no fuel pumps out.

Have you opened the fuel cap when you hear the pump running? If you see fuel swirling around.. you have found your problem.

[Brian UK]

Just to make it clear.
The fuel pump and fuel filter are inside the tank. A common problem is that the pipe joining the two falls off, so though the pump is running, you get no fuel to the injector.
If the bike still has the half plastic fuel filter fitted, then that might also have burst apart, as they do in time.

Remove tank, remove pump assembly from the tank and check it all over.

[Huzo]

Have you taken an injector off, cranked the bike to see if fuel comes out?

[Darren Williams]

Have you taken an injector off, cranked the bike to see if fuel comes out?

An easier way is to turn on, hit the start button and let her crank. Then turn off and pull a spark plug out. If dry, means no gas getting in the cylinder.

When my filter split apart, I had just filled up within 25 miles so I couldn't see a swirl in the almost full tank when the pump was running.

[guzzisteve]

OP last posted on the 1st

Must have scared him off.