Moto Guzzi in 2021...it has all come down to this?

[ToddK]

How does the roamer compare with the bobber, handling-wise?

[Guzzistajohn]

Guzzistajohn wrote:
Beats using Oberdan Bozo .

Did they design the roamer? That thing reminds me of a mud fence. Or a Navada 

[brother dave]

It's come down to THIS    https://www.rideapart.com/news/517122/moto-guzzi-kids-design-contest/?fbclid=IwAR0hEGHkLeEjcOPszHwXnSqhjmiRdK73ZXfrnsyLvaZHUxqAMnjdtGeQRoQ

Using kids as a design team

And here is my grand daughter's design.  I am ready to lay cash down....

[bad Chad]

Beats me, I haven’t ridden a bobber.

But I really like how my Roamer works.  I upgraded the suspension and I’m very happy with it.   The best single thing about the Roamer, is the killer power train. ! 

[DaSwami]

It's one engine. And with all else being equal, my experience is that skinnier tires handle sharper than fat ones.  In 2019, they relocated the footpegs on the Roamer to make it less cruiser-ish, further back and down.  But they never brought that model here (pretty green one with small screen) .  That`s the one I`ve been waiting for.  You are right, I've never ridden them to compare, but I stand by my opinion.  None other than Dave at Moto International derided the Bobber for its sluggish handling and lack of turn-in. So there's that.

I am a huge fan of the brand, but have only been riding them since 2013, when I test rode a V7 Mk1 in Spokane (Empire...which has since dropped Guzzis but will still service them out of warranty).  I've owned since, the V7II and now the V7III. 

I am just concerned about their longterm viability.  It seems the old hats around here "have seen this before" and aren't sweating it.  I hope they are right.

[jas67]

Maybe released the week after I spring for a Speed Twin.

You would not be disappointed by the Speed Twin.   I just bought a pre-owned 2017 Thruxton R a few weeks back, and am absolutely thrilled with it.   The Speed Twin is basically the Thruxton with regular handlebars.

As compared to the T120, it has the Thruxton engine (100 HP, 83 ft*lb), inverted fork with radial Brembo brakes, 17" wheels front and rear.    The wheels are lightweight cast-alloy, much lighter than the spoke wheels of the Thruxton.   The previously owner of my bike added Speed Twin wheels (stock spoke wheels came with it as well).  They do improve the turn-in noticeably.

keep in mind that with the v7III series, there were many models, but all basically the same bike.  i agree that more choices are probably coming. i would like to see a 4 valve head on the v85tt engine with a 1000 higher red line making about 95 hp dressed in aerodynamic skin called Le Mans.

I'v been hoping for such a bike too, but, scratched that itch by buying my Thruxton R.   The 270 degree crank parallel twin even sounds like a Guzzi.  The stock exhaust has a nice deep tone too it.  It sounds great w/o being obnoxiously loud.

It rides and feels like a big block Guzzi, but, with more torque.    the only thing a Guzzi has over this, IMHO, is shaft drive.

The build quality of the modern Triumphs (or at least this one) is top shelf.

[jacksonracingcomau]

I'm sorry Joe but there's NOTHING "Better" about the Heron head smallblock.

My Heron head V7 doesn't make more torque anywhere in its powerband than my Hemi head V7 which feels as strong or stronger throughout the entire rpm range.

No question , reminding anyone that “power band” is betwixt peak torque and peak power
Perhaps the heron makes more torque BELOW it’s peak

Just a thought

Lario was answer in 1984, low end of a heron, top end mad
Shame about management at time

[Kev m]

It's one engine. And with all else being equal, my experience is that skinnier tires handle sharper than fat ones.  In 2019, they relocated the footpegs on the Roamer to make it less cruiser-ish, further back and down.  But they never brought that model here (pretty green one with small screen) .  That`s the one I`ve been waiting for.  You are right, I've never ridden them to compare, but I stand by my opinion.  None other than Dave at Moto International derided the Bobber for its sluggish handling and lack of turn-in. So there's that.

OK, but some more facts to consider:

* Only the first shipment of Bobbers/Roamers sent to the US/NA had pegs that were positioned slightly forward. Every single one of them was eligible to receive a relocation kit that put them back where the rest are. Every shipment SINCE THEN had the pegs in the same place as the rest of the world. Non-issue.

* One engine - ehhh, maybe I'm being pedantic, but there are definitely differences still between the V85 and V7/V9 850. AFAIK it's not just the throttle body (which is a significantly different), but lubrication systems, valve train, etc. I concede they are variants on a theme but this is just a moment in time and I suspect (hope) we will see more from Guzzi. I say this even though the V7/V9 meet any expectations I have from them personally but that's neither here nor there.

* Handling - I've never met Dave, I have his book on my shelf where it never leaves because largely the format. It seems to me he knows more about old Guzzis than I will EVER KNOW no matter how long I live. That doesn't change my impressions of the V9 though our difference in opinion here makes me wonder how many nits he's picking. But neither of OUR opinions matter, it is YOUR opinion that matters. And if you're going to form one I would respectfully suggest YOU AT LEAST RIDE THE DAMN THING.

Roamer front tire: 100/90-19 - meaning 26.1" D / 3.9" W / 3.5" of sidewall

Bobber front tire: 130/90-16 - meaning 25.2" D / 5.1" W / 4.6" of sidewall

and for comparison just cause ya know we're talking about handling and I have ridden it extensively as it's in my garage

Ducati Monster 606 front tire: 120/60-17 - meaning 22.7" D / 4.7" W / 2.8" of sidewall  (and I should note it's a radial not a bias ply)

Now here are my impressions.

The Bobber FEELS like a Cali in a lot of ways. Yes I would say it's more stable running down the road than a V7, but it's lighter and handles just as well to me when I push it. As a matter of fact I think I prefer it to the almost twitchy feel I get at times on a V7. That's not a dig at the V7, but as good a bike as it is, I don't think most would argue it handles BETTER than say our Monster.

Our Monster, has a chunky front tire too - closer in overall size to that of the Bobber at only 0.4" thinner than the Bobber. But in turn it's also 0.8" wider than the Roamer. And now that I'm typing this I guess I can say I've always thought the Monster was MORE STABLE on the road, especially in crosswinds or buffeting than the other smallblocks without giving up any ability when it gets twisty.

It is possible that it therefore takes an rch more "effort" to turn in the Monster or even the Bobber - I say "effort" because to call it effort without the quotes is a step too far as it conjures visions of struggle and it's not only not that, it's something less than the effort of picking up a pen never mind a paper weight, so though I'll concede it takes MORE, I'm saying the amount is negligible.

Ergo I continue to take issue with labels like "sluggish" or "lack of turn-in".

But THEY ARE SUBJECTIVE terms at the end of the day, and really the only way to know how YOU WILL FEEL is to actually go and ride one.

Which was and is my main point.

I am just concerned about their longterm viability.  It seems the old hats around here "have seen this before" and aren't sweating it.  I hope they are right.

Well, you and I are the same here. Though I tend to fall in the cautiously optimistic range. And though I hear your concerns I'm not sure I fully share them. FWIW, I do hope they have more planned too.

[Bulldog9]

Sure, it is basically 3 bikes and two engines, but the V7 and V85 are selling very well, hope this translates into a broadening of the marque into more sporting models. I was surprised to see that they kept the V9 as it doesn't sell as well as the V7. Looking forward to seeing new trim levels on the new V7.

The V85 and V7/9 motors are different enough to matter, likely the same block, but much of the internals, crank/Cross/Oil system, etc are different.

Will be interesting to see what they reveal (if anything) in September. Like many, I'm hoping for an 850 Lemans, or a return to a 1000cc+ motor.

[Kev m]

No question , reminding anyone that “power band” is betwixt peak torque and peak power
Perhaps the heron makes more torque BELOW it’s peak

Just a thought

NOPE.

Regardless of my sloppy use of the term, the Heron head power band is neither wider, nor starts at a lower point.

As a matter of fact, all those years ago when Jay and I tested his V7C side-by-side with my then newish V7 Stone we both determined the V7 Stone pulled harder from a lower rpm. Notes are here in a 6-7 year old thread if interested.

[greer]

Regarding the Bobber handling, it may just be a matter of what you prefer. I like a light-handling bike.  I didn't like the Bobber at all, felt anything but nimble and fun, to me.  An interesting note: the sales guy was riding it across the lot for me to test ride, but turned around and headed back to the service bay because he thought the tires were flat. 

Sarah

[Kev m]

Regarding the Bobber handling, it may just be a matter of what you prefer. I like a light-handling bike.  I didn't like the Bobber at all, felt anything but nimble and fun, to me.  An interesting note: the sales guy was riding it across the lot for me to test ride, but turned around and headed back to the service bay because he thought the tires were flat. 

Sarah

I wonder if size and strength make THAT big a difference in impression between the V7 and V9 Bobber.

[elvisboy77]

V7
V9 Bobber
V85TT

That is all....

There are plenty of other brands out there if Guzzi doesn't offer what you want.

[Bpreynolds2]

The idea of sticking to what sells is, I think, a great plan for Guzzi.  I love all the bikes they are selling now. The V7/V9 line are still my favorite Guzzis of all the ones I owned.

All this talk about Bobber versus Roamer handling, crying about lost power from the big block days.  Funny.  Strafing some apexes, are you?  Dragging a knee, maybe?  I’ve had a bunch of Geese, from 1400 to V7, to 8V, to 1100 and put about 100k miles or so on Guzzis.  Found nits to pick on each one but LOVED them all in their own way.  This being said, not a single one of them, even the mighty couple of 8V Grisos I owned, were bikes I’d find myself in debates about handling and such.  My opinion, yes you can have some fun on all of them, yes a good rider on any bike any day can do super things, and yes there are minor differences in handling you can note between all of them, BUT if you’re riding any of the Geese I’ve owned in a manner for those differences to matter then you’re probably trying to ride that bike in a way you maybe shouldn’t.  I don’t ever, on any road, remember me saying to myself, “Oh man, I sure wish I was on my Griso rather than this Roamer.  I could really burn this road up if I was” or any such thing as that; however, there were many occasions - and one that landed me in the hospital - where I said to myself, “Idiot.  You better remind your dumbass self what bike you are on here and what your own capabilities are and adjust those VERY DAMN quick before…oh shit!”.   

[Tusayan]

A few models is all they need, they didn’t have that many in e.g. the late 70s either.  The secret for marketing is to make sure their reputation isn’t dragged down by models nobody wants.

I’ve ridden Guzzis as sport bikes since 1987, dragged all kinds of stuff hundreds of times, and the way they handle matters a great deal to me. I think of the current range, the best handler on many kinds of roads is the TT.  It could use a little more cornering clearance but at least the pegs touch down first, and the center stand if fitted does not seem like a major issue.  The steering is much like a 70s or 80s Ducati which makes sense when you look at the geometry: 28 degrees of rake, 5 inches of trail, 60 inch wheelbase, 19 inch front wheel.  So given the wide bars and upright riding position, it reminds me of an old 750 GT Ducati with more comfortable suspension and more power.  That’s a good thing for sport riding on the street where IMO narrow, larger diameter wheels and somewhat slow geometry works best.  Just as SUVs are restyled station wagons, ‘adventure tourers’ like the TT are restyled standard street bikes that do the job well without being perceived as boring.

[s1120]

I think right now they are kinda in a sweet spot with the models. Retro is hot, and Guzzi has it in spades. ADV bike also..  The V85 is a great looking, mid size offering in that class. Boxes checked..  Guzzi cant be everything. They are just too small. They could pad the line, but with what? They are not setup to to quickly turn out a supersport bike. And if they did, can they out Big 3, the Big 3? Plus I know a lot of the world the supersport ranges are kind of dead. A big tourer? Maybe, but see how the big pockets pretty much gave up over the years fighting Mr Wing, or the HD's. As far as worthwhile addition, that would fit with the "brand Image" AND would sell?  Well Im kind of surprised they have not done a scrambler. Easy to fit into the line they have, and fits the "Vibe" of Guzzi. Also I know the 1400 is pretty dead, but I think it would have been cool to that powerplant stuck into a sport tour bike..  Kind of a super norge. To add to that I think a LOT of us would love to get a nice LM style bike into the line. A nice one, and not just a few stickers on a V7. Moto Guzzi cant compete with every line the big brands do. Frankly if they tried, it would only bring us a ton of bikes, they could not sell, and would end up being rebadged aprilas.

[Dave Swanson]

V7
V9 Bobber
V85TT

That is all....

I remember when Guzzi made essentially one bike for the American market and the crowds went wild! 

[twowheeladdict]

I think right now they are kinda in a sweet spot with the models. Retro is hot, and Guzzi has it in spades. ADV bike also..  The V85 is a great looking, mid size offering in that class. Boxes checked..  Guzzi cant be everything. They are just too small. They could pad the line, but with what? They are not setup to to quickly turn out a supersport bike. And if they did, can they out Big 3, the Big 3? Plus I know a lot of the world the supersport ranges are kind of dead. A big tourer? Maybe, but see how the big pockets pretty much gave up over the years fighting Mr Wing, or the HD's. As far as worthwhile addition, that would fit with the "brand Image" AND would sell?  Well Im kind of surprised they have not done a scrambler. Easy to fit into the line they have, and fits the "Vibe" of Guzzi. Also I know the 1400 is pretty dead, but I think it would have been cool to that powerplant stuck into a sport tour bike..  Kind of a super norge. To add to that I think a LOT of us would love to get a nice LM style bike into the line. A nice one, and not just a few stickers on a V7. Moto Guzzi cant compete with every line the big brands do. Frankly if they tried, it would only bring us a ton of bikes, they could not sell, and would end up being rebadged aprilas.

Since Paggio owns both Moto Guzzi and Aprilia, and Aprilia is known for their sport bikes, I doubt Paggio will even let Moto Guzzi attempt a sport bike.  When I was at sloans yesterday they had quite a selection of Moto Guzzi and Aprilia.  Those $25,000 street legal race bikes making over 200 HP were pretty impressive looking. 

Sloans did have an Audace on the floor along with a few 2020 V7s, a couple 2021 V7s, and a couple V85TTs. 

In fact, they are having a hard time getting inventory from the Japanese, and US manufacturers so they had a large showing of Paggio and KTM and have expanded their "Chinese" products and I saw the new Bennelli Adventure bike. 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I remember when Guzzi made essentially one bike for the American market and the crowds went wild! 

The V7 Sport was being sold at the same time.

[blackcat]

"I doubt Paggio will even let Moto Guzzi attempt a sport bike."

I agree but a 100+HP Classic looking bike with Ohlins suspension or at least something decent is not going to take one potential sale away from Aprilia.

[Dirk_S]

"I doubt Paggio will even let Moto Guzzi attempt a sport bike."

I agree but a 100+HP Classic looking bike with Ohlins suspension or at least something decent is not going to take one potential sale away from Aprilia.

Also - both Aprilia and Guzzi have had ADV bikes at the same time. I don’t see why both brands offering legit sport bikes can’t be possible—Guzzi has enough of a niche design, and Aprilia has such a race / performance with premium pricing focus on its end that I don’t see either one yanking sales away from the other.

[blackcat]

Also - both Aprilia and Guzzi have had ADV bikes at the same time. I don’t see why both brands offering legit sport bikes can’t be possible—Guzzi has enough of a niche design, and Aprilia has such a race / performance with premium pricing focus on its end that I don’t see either one yanking sales away from the other.

It just comes down to Piaggio not wanting to spend the money on Euro 5 big block engine. BMW can make an Air/Oil cooled engine that can make 100+ HP so the technology is there to push a Guzzi big block forward without water cooling. 

[Dave Swanson]

The V7 Sport was being sold at the same time.

Dang!  I should have picked out an Ambassador advertisement.   

[John A]

https://youtu.be/NNb4IY8PimE
Anyone notice this?

[bad Chad]

I didn't see anything new at the Verona show, that hasn't been shown somewhere else.   It appears Guzzi is not bringing any of the new Roamers over to north America.

[spmoto]

Yeah Dave, you're not sneking anything by Charlie 

[moto-uno]

^^ That's almost painful to watch  . Peter

[Wayne Orwig]

V7
V9 Bobber
V85TT

That is all....

In around 1995, you could get a California 1100, and?????? Well, I think just a California 1100.

[Murray]

In around 1995, you could get a California 1100, and?????? Well, I think just a California 1100.

Nevada 750, Cali 1100i and 1100, 1100 Sport, Daytona 1000, Daytona 1000 Racing, Quota 1000, and the last of the NTX 750's.

[Wayne Orwig]

Nevada 750, Cali 1100i and 1100, 1100 Sport, Daytona 1000, Daytona 1000 Racing, Quota 1000, and the last of the NTX 750's.

Not so much in the US.