Finding TDC 04 750 Breva updated

[drdwb]

So this will sound simple to most of you I’m sure, But I’m trying to find TDC on wife’s 04 750 Breva, last time I set the valves was 3 years ago but she only put on 8000 miles since so I can’t  remember the procedure,  I have set them before and also on my Norge so I know how to do it, but despite doing the search and finding wonderful guides on how to do it I need help finding TDC,  I can’t see any marks on the fly wheel like on the Norge, I put a straw in the cylinders and get close but don’t see corresponding marks on flywheel.

Can Anybody tell me what I’m looking for?

[lucian]

make sure you are on the compression stroke I use the straw method also just watch the intake valve as you rotate the crankshaft, when intake valve opens and then closes you are coming towards TDC on the compression stroke ,stop when straw reaches max lift , repeat for other side  I always pull both plugs to make turning the motor easier  Now check for flywheel marks I believe it is a D and an S  demarking TDC on left and right banks on , some just have a line and no letters

[wavedog]

 "S" mark on the flywheel is left side. Sinistre or something like that.

[drdwb]

Thanks for feed back. Had used straw but didn’t feel any slop and couldn’t get feeler gauge in intake or exhaust on either side. Back to straw, Brought both up until I could turn the rod easily on both ex and in thought this must be the place but no markings on fly wheel for either side could be seen.

If some one with an 04 Breva reads this and could get a picture I’d appreciate it. Adjusted valves, they were so tight I couldn’t get a gauge in. So I set them to spec 15  and 20, got the bike back together and now it won’t start due to electrical problem, it just clicks, so I must have goofed up a connector in the process.

Looks like I now have a project for next weekend. Glad we have 3 other running Guzzi s.
Makes me appreciate the hydraulic valves of the EV and Stone even more.
Thanks for the help and suggestions.

[jrt]

I don't recall any witness marks on my wife's old Breva, but it has been a few years.

In addition to watching the intake valve, you can set the piston at TDC (using a straw or small wooden dowel- whatever) and then try to spin the pushrods with your fingers.  If they both spin easily and you can feel a very, very small space rocking the rockers back and forth- you are on compression.  If either of the pushrods are difficult to spin- go around one more time.

[Rich A]

I put my thumb over the sparkplug hole while turning the engine over. When you feel pressure, it's on the compression stroke. Then use straw method, but go slow doing that.

Rich A

[Kiwi_Roy]

[quote author=drdwb link=topic=111398.msg1766696#msg1766696 date=16260571
 ----------
got the bike back together and now it won’t start due to electrical problem, it just clicks, so I must have goofed up a connector in the process.
 -----------
[/quote]
Its hard to imagine what you could have done to stop it cranking. Does it just click once or rapidly like a machine gun
Its unlikely that the battery has quit while sitting but it may need a decent charge, if the leads were bolted on without some form of grease a layer of Lead Oxide can creep in and disconnect the terminals while it's sitting. Disconnect and scrape the Lead terminals then apply some Vaseline to protect the metal and its good for the battery lifetime, lack of a little grease has caused many a good battery to be replaced unnecessarily.
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2004_750_Breva.gif
I'm assuming you haven't done the "Startus Interuptus" fix on this bike.

[lucian]

Your sure you are checking at TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke?  the fact that you said there was no gaps at all tells me you may be on TDC, but  on exhaust stroke , in which case you are one complete revolution off from TDC compression. As was mentioned ,you can put a finger in the plug hole and when you feel a puff of air while rotating the crank that is where you need to stop. Insert the straw and rotate crank back and forth slightly to get straw to max height. You may actually go past TDC slightly with the puff method if you turn the motor too fast, go slowly.. This procedure needs to be done on both left and right sides as they are not both at TDC at the same time. Please don't try and start your motor until you have verified this.

[drdwb]

It clicks rapidly like a machine gun, ( that gives you a clue please let me know Kiwi)  I feel pretty good after reading the responses about being at TDC as I could freely turn both push rods ( thank you  jrt  ) and the straw was checked and rechecked ( did I mention when my OCD kicks in I’m often almost paralyzed and won’t move forward until several attempts give the same results). My guess is the failure to star issue is an electrical connector from regulator or alternator  that got messed up as the dash was doing weird things when I turned the key on or off.

Last nights sleep was frequently punctuated with dreams of possible things to check, little sleep. This will drive me nuts until Wednesday or Friday when I have the chance to dig into it, prior to starting the valve adjustment the bike electrical system was fine, but I did check all the connections. When problems arise I’ve learned to ask myself what did I touch before this problem popped up. At least in this case my search will be very limited to what I messed with and go from there.
Thanks

[lucian]

Sounds like you need to charge the battery  , the solenoid won't hold as the amperage required is unavailable. Don't loose sleep over this collectively we will get this one sorted out. Gotta love this place! 

[jrt]

[quote author=drdwb link=topic=111398.msg1766696#msg1766696 date=16260571
 ----------
got the bike back together and now it won’t start due to electrical problem, it just clicks, so I must have goofed up a connector in the process.
 -----------

Its hard to imagine what you could have done to stop it cranking. Does it just click once or rapidly like a machine gun
Its unlikely that the battery has quit while sitting but it may need a decent charge, if the leads were bolted on without some form of grease a layer of Lead Oxide can creep in and disconnect the terminals while it's sitting. Disconnect and scrape the Lead terminals then apply some Vaseline to protect the metal and its good for the battery lifetime, lack of a little grease has caused many a good battery to be replaced unnecessarily.
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2004_750_Breva.gif
I'm assuming you haven't done the "Startus Interuptus" fix on this bike.

Roy, you reminded me of another quirk on our old Breva.  It slowly discharged the battery.  Over a week or two, not days.  I never did figure out what was draining the charge.
Moral= keep it on a charger.
J

[drdwb]

The clicking machine gun noise persists despite being on charger for 24 hours now, I originally thought perhaps low battery also as previous posts suggest the Breva is prone to slow battery drain( I keep trickle chargers on all four Guzzi’s most of the time). So I’m back to my original thoughts about a connector messed up while doing valves. No more time until Wednesday pm to even look at it.

I’ll let you all know when I check that out. Gotta be something simple, the bike ran but was jerky prior to doing valve setting. So it most likely something I did.

[drdwb]

I think I may have found part of the problem. So the battery has been on charge 2 days now, it turns over 2-3 times than machine gun rattle starts. The battery is Dura cell ultra vintage 07, so it may be problem, but it is usually on trickle charge when not riding for 2-3 days, I’ll do a load test on it Fri. And since it’s that old I should probably get a new one before I do anything else.

 But did I mention I have OCD when it comes to working on our bikes. And I am a regular Guzzi rider (= cheap) so the pictures I included show the 2 wires coming off the alternator, the point of the pencil shows cracks in the wire and insulation where I noticed it was pinched between the plastic cover and one of the mounting bolts, in the wire cracks I see corrosion, so I’m wondering if there is an easy way to check both the alternator and also the regulator.

Just in case a short fired something, I know, the consensus will be quit being so anal and replace the battery. If I do that and it runs I’ll always know that corrosion is there and going to cause problems on the road. What can I do to clean it up and reinsulate it, black electrical tape is going to melt here.

I’ll quit now , remove and replace battery, before I let you guys see just how bad my OCD is.
Thanks for the anticipated ass kicking and any helpful suggestions.
Latter.












cla 250 quarter mile

[Kiwi_Roy]

It's probably ok but If you can see where the yellow wires are soldered to the alternator coils and you are a competent solderer the quickest way would be to replace the wires with new wire.
You will find that the corroded copper will make it impossible just to shorten these ones and re-attach, 16 gauge should be fine.
Otherwise find some fibreglass tape and wrap them up.
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40068300/