What makes Brough Superior so good

[reidy]

Hello all.

Here is an off Guzzi question for the masses. I will start with a bit of background.
I was at a historical motorcycle show yesterday and saw an Australian built motorcycle (GCS 1920) with a JAP engine.
This got my thinking, I know Brough Superior's used JAP engines. They also used a lot of other off the shelf parts as was common in the day.

Therefore what made Brough Superior such a better bike than any other JAP engined bike?
I am not looking to poke any bears, so to speak. I am more interested from a technical perspective on what they did to earn the reputation of the Rolls Royce of motorcycles.

Thanks

Steve

[Scout63]

Where to start?  This is a partial list:

1. Fastest bikes of their day.
2. Very expensive even when new - not many sold.
3. Simply gorgeous.
4. Lawrence of Arabia not only owned several but died riding one, supposedly crashing to miss pedestrians in the lane.

From my limited reading the Broughs were carefully built to high standards, but the limited production and the fact that they were THE bike back in the day, coupled with the association with Lawrence, puts them in that first tier of vintage bikes. 

[Rough Edge racing]

 By 1936 ,the US built Crocker was arguably the worlds fastest production bike....The Brough Superior was built to a higher overall standard, but speed is speed

     

[Tom]

As stated previously:

1)  Top Speed when made.

2)  Low number of made.

3)  Historical connection.

[moto-uno]

  Before everyone gets kinda teary eyed over one of these , in the end they were what the Brits called "bitsa bikes",
  engine from here , transmission from there , etc . But if Lawrence rode it , it was probably as good as it got then !   Peter

[Rough Edge racing]

As stated previously:

1)  Top Speed when made.

2)  Low number of made.

3)  Historical connection.

  Crocker production model top speed, 110 mph. Same as production SS100 production bikes, not on a race track ridden by an expert

  100 Crockers were produced

  Two years ago a Crocker sold for $740,000 at auction

[Tom]

No disagreement from me.  Seems rarity and top speed for the period.  The Brough Superior has that piece of history attached to it.

[Kremmen]

Some of the other JAP-engined bikes were exotica then and now, too. You can pay a fair bit for a Coventry Eagle if you can find one.

I'd happily have either, but the CE bikes came in a damn nice red and black paint scheme. 

[reidy]

  Before everyone gets kinda teary eyed over one of these , in the end they were what the Brits called "bitsa bikes",
  engine from here , transmission from there , etc . But if Lawrence rode it , it was probably as good as it got then !   Peter

Thanks for all of the replies so far. The above quote basically was along a similar line of thinking.
If they were the fastest bike of the day, why were they faster than the other bikes fitted with the same JAP engine?
I have read that they were very expensive but did that make them a better bike or just better marketing?
I know looks are subjective and history is an interesting thing and low production numbers means rare but these are not what make a bike better.

I was wondering did the motors get special treatment or did they have some feature that no other bike had?
I guess I am more of a technical minded person than what I would call a romantic. To be honest I would not care if Lawrence road with Jean Harlow on the back and the bike came with a framed photo.

Steve

[Rough Edge racing]

Engine comparison is interesting...both have exposed valve springs. The Crocker has a more typical US V twn appearance...The JAP was a development of an earlier engine and looks a bit more antique...
     

[Tkelly]

Before he was famous Lawrence rode a bicycle across Europe.

[jbell]

Great press.  A publication reviewed the Brough Sup. and declared it "The Rolls Royce of motorcycles."  RR decided to have a look and was so impressed with build quality allowed BS to use the RR reference in advertising.  A side note, Brough's father was in the motorcycle manufacturing business and had a sterling reputation.  George wanted to take the company in a different direction and began building his own bikes that were "better" than his father's and thus called them Brough Superiors.

[JJ]

Great press.  A publication reviewed the Brough Sup. and declared it "The Rolls Royce of motorcycles."  RR decided to have a look and was so impressed with build quality allowed BS to use the RR reference in advertising.  A side note, Brough's father was in the motorcycle manufacturing business and had a sterling reputation.  George wanted to take the company in a different direction and began building his own bikes that were "better" than his father's and thus called them Brough Superiors.

"The Rolls-Royce of Motorcycles" - - - This sums it all up!  

The quality of materials used at the time were superior to anything else out there....and that is also why there were so expensive!

C'mon now....."Awwwrence!!" 

[Tom]

Short fellah. 

[Dave Swanson]

Even a"budget" Brough, the 680 Black Alpine are special machines! 

This bike is owned by a friend of mine and is currently on loan and on display at the National Motorcycle Museum in Anamosa, Iowa.

[JJ]

Short fellah. 

"Awwwwwwwrence!!"    He was 5 feet 5 inches....

NOTE:  In the above photo...both feet flat on the ground on his Brough...

[Dave Swanson]

[reidy]

The quality of materials used at the time were superior to anything else out there....and that is also why there were so expensive!

Have you ever ask a question and feel like you must not have asked it properly?
What I am trying to work out is linked to the above comment about the quality of materials. As far I can tell, they either used JAP or later Matchless engines. Strumey Archer or Norton gearboxes. A lot of other parts were from various manufactures that were also fitted to many other bikes.

I can't imagine that Matchless or Norton would have made parts to a higher quality for Brough, but they might have.

Huzo, I am not trying to work out why they sell for so much now, that is beyond my comprehension. An earlir poster mentioned that they were a bitsa bike. It may have been tongue in cheek but it is not far from the truth.
I am also not trying to work out if they are good as a 2010 postie bike. I here they are reliable and make a great touring mount.

What really got me thinking was that a number of manufactures used JAP engines but for some reason either based on Fact or Hype the Brough is somehow better. If it is Fact, did Brough blueprint the engines, gearbox's and other accessories or did he just have attention to detail when assembling.

I am never likely to own a Brough Superior, or have the desire. I do like old bikes and am keen to understand some of the technical innervations that were around. For example I love the design of the Ivar Johnson Cam chest but would probably never own one.

Steve 

[Rough Edge racing]

From what I have read, JAP engines were reliable and made to a high standard for the time period...Generally speaking the British gear boxes were ok...When you strip away the bullshit, was the Brough better made than other premium bikes of that era? Was it more reliable than a common 1930's Harley or Indian?

[cliffrod]

I think it has as much if not more to do with circumstances & marketing than particular machine superiority. 

People (whether fan or consumer) respond to words like "Superior" and "the RR of motorcycles".  They apparently weren't fall-apart junk. so those words weren't outright lies and that suggests they may be true.  The story about RR approving of the comparison claim is the kind of marketing plug that money can't buy.  Even the most clueless-to-motorcycles (new or old) person knows exactly what RR is and represents.  There's benefit to an item being perceived as so exclusive and expensive that normal people cannot afford it.   For example- even though Henrvy Ford literally changed the modern world with his legendary product & business model, being "the Model T of motorcycles" wouldn't have helped Brough create the same result.

Add to these things their brevity of production.  they didn't have decades to become passé or suffer grand missteps like a rock star dying young before they get old and fat and out of touch.  The "what if" is often a better ideal than the "what is" over the long run.  Shortcomings are seen through rose colored glasses, because things certainly would have gotten better if there had only been a little more time..

Brough Superior, Crocker and others like Britten or even Vincent fit into this scenario.