Need help sourcing a part

[Guzzidad]

  My friend Bill used to be a member here but now he can't seem to log on. Probably got purged due to inactivity. He asked me to ask you to help find a new phase and/or revolution sensor for his 98 EV. He's owned the bike since new. The sensor was the last thing he removed to clean it. Now it starts, but only runs a few seconds and then dies. He's had problems with that sensor before and bought a new one, presumably for an Italian car, but essentially the same part. The Guzzi part # is 29 72 16 60.

[pehayes]

It is not likely the sensor.  Binary signal.  It works or it doesn't.  If it starts and runs at all then the sensors are fine.  BTW, on the 98EV there are two of them, identical part.  One on the right side of the bell housing below and behind the right cylinder; the other on the timing chest above and in front of the left cylinder.  Depth spacing is critical.  The bell housing one is dry and tends to catch clutch/flywheel swarf.

How long has the bike been sitting?  When and how did this start failing?

The symptom you describe sounds like a clogged petcock inside the tank on top of the petcock.  The FI system has a HUGE filter under the center of the tank.  Fine, but in order for fuel to get there it first has to pass the petcock filter.  Tiny diameter like a pencil.  Easy to get debris in the tank which settles to the bottom and clogs the petcock filter.

Do some research about the fuel filler "moat" and make sure that drains.
Pull the tank and petcock to ensure the interior is spotless.
DON'T confuse and mis-match the petcock wires to the fuel filler wires.  Bad juju there.

MGCycle has the part if you want new.  Likely any of the usual suspects have it or can get it.  I've had the sensor fail and also had the gang molex connectors get dirty and fail.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Guzzidad]

   Thanks Patrick. He suspects the sensor on the right side. He removed  it and cleaned it two days ago. Bill bought the bike new and uses it regularly, at least weekly. It has 140,000 miles and looks like new. He called Harper's and they told him the part is no longer available. And if it was available it would likely be hundreds of dollars. He replaced the original a couple of years ago with a $30 part because the wires to it got damaged.

[Bill N]

Guzzi Dad has reported it correctly. The fuel pump comes on strong when key is turned on. The day before I had a trouble free 150 mile ride. But I pulled the right rotational sensor to clean it as I sometimes do. It was dirty. Next day tried a ride. The engine shut off totally dead, no stumble but just like the kill switch was pushed. The bike started after 3 stopages and I got her home. Tonight I reset the sensor , tweeked a kink in the wire and she runs smooth in the garage. I've had a previous problem with the sensor and I suspect it now. Harpers advised me the sensors are not available thru Guzzi. But a few years ago someone on this forum advised it's a common sensor on some other Italian cars or motorcycles. I easily found one on the internet. I'd like to find another one because I think the sensor and/or its wiring is the problem.  Thanks to Steve helping me to get back on to this forum.

[AJ Huff]

Guzzi Dad has reported it correctly. The fuel pump comes on strong when key is turned on. The day before I had a trouble free 150 mile ride. But I pulled the right rotational sensor to clean it as I sometimes do. It was dirty. Next day tried a ride. The engine shut off totally dead, no stumble but just like the kill switch was pushed. The bike started after 3 stopages and I got her home. Tonight I reset the sensor , tweeked a kink in the wire and she runs smooth in the garage. I've had a previous problem with the sensor and I suspect it now. Harpers advised me the sensors are not available thru Guzzi. But a few years ago someone on this forum advised it's a common sensor on some other Italian cars or motorcycles. I easily found one on the internet. I'd like to find another one because I think the sensor and/or its wiring is the problem.  Thanks to Steve helping me to get back on to this forum.

Is this what you're talking about?https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=85714.0

Scroll down and there's a list of cross references.

-AJ

[pehayes]

I bought these off of Amazon a few years ago.  Says out of stock now, but I would follow the item.  Meanwhile, contact Harpers and MGCycle.  Also consider a used one from some breaker such as guzzipower.com or Moto Guzzi Classics.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D76G1CU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

MG Cycle has them in stock at $74.05

There are two versions, two-pin and three-pin.   For a 98EV you want the two-pin version.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[jrt]

Here's another one-  my issues with the cam position sensor.  I'm still waiting on sensor #2 (backup) from Latvia.
What really helped me was Roy's advice to wire up a couple of LED's.  It was easy and informative.
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=112444

[guzzisteve]

This is one a friend got to fix his---------------------------

https://cars245.com/en/item/vemo-V24720067-rpm-sensor-engine-management/

[Kiwi_Roy]

Measure the resistance of the sensor, if its around 680 Ohms its probably ok.
The fuel pump always runs when you first turn the key on, it's a 2 second timer doing that to prime the injectors because the bike is not turning at that time.
When the engine starts to crank the sensor turns the pump on again, I often suggest adding a small lamp to the pump circuit as a troubleshooting aid.
Perhaps you just need to check the sensor gap, some owners screw it up by adding an "O" ring to fix the oil leak and space it too far away.
I use a quick setting epoxy to measure the gap just line a gear tooth up in the centre of the hole, put a drop of epoxy on the tip of the sensor, bolt in place, wait for it to set then remove and measure.
Sensor gap 0.6 - 1.2 mm
The oil doesn't leak around the sensor it passes right through it and comes out the cable area these sensors are not designed to be oil tight.
Here's another recent discussion on the subject.
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=112444.0
And here's a great source of information
http://www.dpguzzi.com/efiman.pdf  page 13 describes the sensor.
Heres the schematic, relay 50 is controlled by the sensor, if the ECU thinks the motor has stopped it turns off the relay powering down the pump, coils and injectors.
So a lamp anywhere on the Red/Black wire will tell you what it's doing.
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2004_EV_Catalytic.gif

[JoeB]

Had a stop and go situation on my 98 that the cause turned out to be one sensor wire was routed in a way that it rubbed and wore through the insulation. This exposed the inner wire that would intermittently ground out.
Entirely due to my superior mechanical skills when I replaced fuel line. (sarcasm intended)
The bike has a very rudimentary diagnostic light that will check the sensors.
Seems not many have allot of faith in it.
The download manual KiwiRoy mentions from dpguzzi explains its use.

[guzziart]

Per Kiwi_Roy  The oil doesn't leak around the sensor it passes right through it and comes out the cable area these sensors are not designed to be oil tight.

That's what I ran into with my '03 V11 Lemans.  I resolved the minor leak by cleaning (forgot what I used to remove oil residue) the outside the engine portion of the sensor, applied JB Weld to the plastic molded housing of the sensor and down the cable casing about 1".  What a lousy design....Dopes! 

[Kiwi_Roy]

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1998_EV.gif Bills 98 EV might have one of the old P8 ECUs but its the same idea.
The sensor (56) sends a small sine-wave signal to the ECU which then turns on output pin 19 grounding the coil of Power Relay (50)
The Power Relay contacts power up the two ignition coils (48) & (49), Injectors (54) & (55) and fuel pump (53), all you need is a tiny lamp on that Power Relay contact and you know the sensor is working.
There's one other thing that happens first, the ECU relay (52) must turn ON, you can monitor that with a small lamp across the electric petcock (34)
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My 98 EV was more like this with a P8 ECU https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1996_Sport_1100i.gif Same idea though.
You can add these lights to all Fuel Injected Guzzi's, its a great diagnostic tool, any sign of trouble look under the seat to see what the relays are doing,