V7II vs. V7III engine/power delivery?

[majstevetrevor]

But I do take issue with the oft repeated (in this thread) myth of "more torque down low" it doesn't, unless a gearing difference giving that impression. But certainly that's not what is seen on the dynos. Maybe we could say the MK I or II makes "more of THEIR" torque down low, but even then it's not more than the III is making at the same rpm.

But I do believe most of these things are RCHs.... so YMMV and all that.

I had to Google "RCH" -- fortunately my wife wasn't looking over my shoulder...  It's funny, I think for the most part I am not a particularly sensitive rider, that is I often can't tell differences that others notice, but I do notice when weight is cut.  Like you say, it's very subjective, but 37 lbs is a lot to me.  I also remember being blown around by trucks on the highway on my V7I Racer in a way I never noticed on other bikes.  Though truth is I tend to stay off the highways so that's a limited pool of data.

And to be clear, I am not saying that the I and II engines make "more low end torque," only that having peak torque on the lower end feels different when riding, esp in town and on the country lanes.  It's partly why I still like single cylinders so much.

Anyway, I honestly am completely open to being wrong about everything I've said!   It's so hard to judge "feel."

[Dirk_S]

I had to Google "RCH" -- fortunately my wife wasn't looking over my shoulder...  It's funny, I think for the most part I am not a particularly sensitive rider, that is I often can't tell differences that others notice, but I do notice when weight is cut.  Like you say, it's very subjective, but 37 lbs is a lot to me.

Very valid point, and I think this is worth considering—small weight gains can be felt, especially by riders smaller in stature or strength. I’m 5’ 8”, 145-160 lb (fit versus making too many batches of beef jerky). Not a lot of muscle mass on this frame. My KZ400 felt perfect to push around in the driveway, take off-road, and hit the highway. The V7II feels just a tad heavier than I prefer, but I deal with it. That said, I stay hung up on the weights of newer bikes because I just don’t want to have to push around, lift, or take off-road anything that’s even heavier than what I’ve got.

Anyway…back to the engine difference…

[Anomaly]

OK, thanks everyone. But, color me still confused--- Dirk, thanks! Given your photo guide, I clearly have twin throttle bodies:




Which means the statement at:https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/moto%20guzzi/moto_guzzi_v_7_12.htm
about the 2012-13 V7 Classics being the first Guzzis with single throttle bodies is wrong. So my 2012 has twin throttle bodies and a steel tank (not the twin throttle bodies/plastic tank combo referred to in this thread).
 
And in this thread I've seen references to V7 1, 1.5, II, and III. What is the 1.5?

[Kev m]

All fair points... 

(except that torque thing, it would make sense if that torque thing. Even if it's a higher percentage of it's own torque the raw numbers are still so much less. And if it was gearing then how the hell does the V7III accelerate so much better with ME on it as it sounds like I'm approaching twice the size of some of you guys?).

Maybe I should explain something too, living in the Pinelands a LOT of our roads are maddeningly straight and flat and empty. So it's no uncommon for me to spend the better part of a 100 mile afternoon ride at 65-75 mph. That's NOT where the V7I shines. I liked it much better on the rolling, twisty, foothills of PA horse country. Slower speeds, more rowing and less top gear droning, the V7I was great.

The V7III does that well too (the opportunities I get to play out there), but I do think it much more effortlessly does that 65-75+ mph droning. Which is why I probably think it's a better highway bike when the need arises.

I can see why if one was 100# lighter than me they might notice the weight difference more.

I wonder about how the weight influences feel on the highway though. Again just MY weight difference would then suggest I would think the V7I would be fine on the highway, but I think it's twitchy. And it can't just be weight because I think the lighter Duc 696 is just fine on the highway from a stability standpoint. Yeah, I do think the III is better, there, but I don't think that's just weight. Gotta be more factors at play.

Gentleman, please understand, I'm enjoying this conversation and examination of minutia. No offense or disregard meant at all. I am actively looking to learn from the different perspectives. 

OK, thanks everyone. But, color me still confused--- Dirk, thanks! Given your photo guide, I clearly have twin throttle bodies:




Which means the statement at:https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/moto%20guzzi/moto_guzzi_v_7_12.htm
about the 2012-13 V7 Classics being the first Guzzis with single throttle bodies is wrong. So my 2012 has twin throttle bodies and a steel tank (not the twin throttle bodies/plastic tank combo referred to in this thread).
 
And in this thread I've seen references to V7 1, 1.5, II, and III. What is the 1.5?

I thought I explained the answer to both, but it's probably my fault. I tend to over-explain hoping that if I throw enough something will stick. 

That crappy bike spec site isn't completely wrong. The 2012 models other than North America (US/CA) were the first of the V7 Stone single throttle body bikes. I believe it was only NA that got the twin throttle body V7C, mostly metal tank models that year. The V7C (classic) was only ever sold as a dual-throttle body model.

My 2013 V7 Stone I ordered from FBF in late 2012 and it was delivered in December 2012 as a 2013 V7 Stone was one of the first MK1 bikes in NA.

MKI is the nomenclature some of us have used to delineate the difference between the first production years of the 1TB model and the latter ones that received the name V7II or V7III from Guzzi.

The MK1.5 is the ~1 year only, tail end of the MKI production - 1TB, 5-speed, but for only ~2015 that bike got a wet alternator with lower power output than the previous model years of the 1TB 5-speed. Again, just a quick way of explaining the difference.

So

2TB V7C/Cafe/Racer - through 2011 in EU and 2012 in US/NA

1TB V7 Stone/Special/Racer (MKI) - started 2012 in EU, 2013 in US/NA. Continued same for 2014, went to MKI wet alternator by 2015.

V7II Stone/Special/Racer/Stornello (MK II) was 2016 in US/NA, not sure about EU, could have debuted earlier there or elsewhere in the world. It was the start the 6-speed, ABS/TC, and possibly some frame or engine mounting differences.

V7III was 2017+ in US (again not sure if EU got this earlier or if the US was finally caught up and getting this stuff at the same time).

V7 MKIV (850 - EU-V) I guess started in 2021? (it's already getting foggy, maybe I'm just trying to forget the last 2 years).

That make sense?

[Anomaly]

Kev m, THANKS! The (my) darkness is growing lighter thanks to your knowledge (and patience). You just made it easier for me to understand what I'm seeing in the ads for used V7s over here (Italy).

[Off @ 90]

The Mkll engine has a 4 degree cant forward and 10 mm lower ,cardan shaft output 50 mm lower and foot pegs 25 mm lower compared to Mk1 according to specs .
For me  my Mk2 Stornello handles better than my Breva 750 . Feels very sure footed through the  corners . Maybe the  Mkll changes helped and 18" front wheel . However the  archaic suspension didn't  get any improvement  over the older models  but I'm working on that issue installing fork emulators and some 2810 Hagon shocks on the back when they arrive . Hoping for at least acceptable suspension .

[Mwether]

Guys, just dropping back in to wave my pompoms in gratitude!

This thread is hugely helpful to me, and I hope will serve as a resource for others on V7 variation.

It's got the kind of great anecdotal/subjective experiences I was initially seeking but also—thanks to Kev and others—a wealth of objective/measured data as well now!

Awesome! 

[jpv7]

The Mkll engine has a 4 degree cant forward and 10 mm lower ,cardan shaft output 50 mm lower and foot pegs 25 mm lower compared to Mk1 according to specs .
For me  my Mk2 Stornello handles better than my Breva 750 . Feels very sure footed through the  corners . Maybe the  Mkll changes helped and 18" front wheel . However the  archaic suspension didn't  get any improvement  over the older models  but I'm working on that issue installing fork emulators and some 2810 Hagon shocks on the back when they arrive . Hoping for at least acceptable suspension .

Excellent.  Did the emulators on my MKII along with Hagons at the rear.  Amazing!  If I had limited $, I’d fix the front first, but many seem to do the rear only.  I guess it depends on how fast you want to go… yes, I know it’s a V7, but it’s still fun to go fast in the twisties.

[Iron Cross Junction]

Guys, just dropping back in to wave my pompoms in gratitude!

This thread is hugely helpful to me, and I hope will serve as a resource for others on V7 variation.

It's got the kind of great anecdotal/subjective experiences I was initially seeking but also—thanks to Kev and others—a wealth of objective/measured data as well now!

Awesome! 

Prego, Jeff.

But nothing answers the questions you ask better than a demo.

If you can't find one or both locally, watch for several days in a row of dry weather >50º.  That probably means March around here.  Then take a drive up to the top of Virginia.  Arden's about 400 and change miles/7 or so hours from Cross Junction.  It's a scenic drive ... with lots of helpful marked and unmarked LEO's along the way. 

Then, take out both the Stornello and III on some of the (mighty fine) local roads.  You'll know in <30 miles which is The Right One. 

You can spend the night and head to dealer or private seller of your choice in the morning. 

Bill

[Kev m]

Just to revisit this thread. I put over 100 miles on each of my V7 MkI Stone and V7III the past two days. While doing so I was thinking about this thread. I still can't say if there's a difference between the MkI and MkII, but I'm doubling down in my impressions of the MkI vs MkIII.

The III does everything better than the MkI, with an emphasis on more power, more effortless acceleration, and more comfortable and capable power at highway speeds.

Yesterday afternoon I found myself taking in the late afternoon warm sea air at the shore when I realized I had to make my way inland over an hour away to pick up the wife's repaired iPhone and I had no idea when the store closed. I double-timed it back largely at 70-75 and noted just how much more was left in the throttle when wanted.

I still truly love my MkI and have no plan to get rid of it.

I was telling my wife at dinner last night that I've never ridden two bikes that are so similar yet different in every way. They are both Guzzi through and through. They feel and act the "same" but the III is just more or just a little different in everything from power to sound, from feel to suspension and handling.

So much so that if I could only have one the III is more versatile and would be my pick.

I'm really glad that I don't have to pick.

[Iron Cross Junction]

Just to revisit this thread. I put over 100 miles on each of my V7 MkI Stone and V7III the past two days. While doing so I was thinking about this thread. I still can't say if there's a difference between the MkI and MkII, but I'm doubling down in my impressions of the MkI vs MkIII.

The III does everything better than the MkI, with an emphasis on more power, more effortless acceleration, and more comfortable and capable power at highway speeds.

Yesterday afternoon I found myself taking in the late afternoon warm sea air at the shore when I realized I had to make my way inland over an hour away to pick up the wife's repaired iPhone and I had no idea when the store closed. I double-timed it back largely at 70-75 and noted just how much more was left in the throttle when wanted.

I still truly love my MkI and have no plan to get rid of it.

I was telling my wife at dinner last night that I've never ridden two bikes that are so similar yet different in every way. They are both Guzzi through and through. They feel and act the "same" but the III is just more or just a little different in everything from power to sound, from feel to suspension and handling.

So much so that if I could only have one the III is more versatile and would be my pick.

I'm really glad that I don't have to pick.

Thanks, Kev.  Interesting compo.

You also got up mighty early to write that review.   

Bill

[Bulldog9]

Thanks, Kev.  Interesting compo.

You also got up mighty early to write that review.   

Bill

Got up early?  $10 says he was up all night writing that soliloquy ....... 

[Kev m]

Got up early?  $10 says he was up all night writing that soliloquy .......