Oil Question - V7iii

[dennylee11]

Brothers and Sisters,
  After a good 15 year hiatus from owning a Moto Guzzi I'm back!!!
Bought a 2021 Moto Guzzi V7iii from Sloan's in Murfreesboro, TN - Thanks again, Matt!
I've owned an 850T, SP1000, and a 2002 Stone. Feels very "normal" and natural to have an MG again.

Anyway, back to my question... what are good oil weight choices for my new V7iii?
10/60 is what I've seen in a couple sources...
"Back in the day" I ran 20/50 automotive oil... Still have two gallons on the shelf...

What's the collective mind say?

[kballowe]

There are a lot of folks that use 20W-50.  15W-50.  10W-50.  Everyone has their personal preference.

The Porsche guys like this Castrol Edge Supercar 10W-60 stuff, and it's what I use.  It's a viscosity match to the owner's manual recommendation.  Besides, it has titanium.   

The local auto parts store carries it.  Otherwise, they will order it.

[9fingers]

Why not stick with what the manual recommends? I also use Castrol Edge Supercar 10/60.
Scott

[Moparnut72]

My local O'Reillys keeps it in stock. I believe most of their stores also keep it on the shelf. It is what I use. I haven't checked to see what is recommended for my new Triumph but this is what I will use in it. It just had its first mandatory service, they put 10W40 300V Motul in it. But I think I will probably use the Edge. I will do more research before it's next oil change.
kk

[RinkRat II]

   I believe your manual calls for 10 w 60. Depending on your climate and riding style you can adjust somewhat.  My preference would be Royal Purple 10w60.




     Paul B 

[9fingers]

Forgot to mention, Walmart has Castrol Edge Supercar in stock typically. Any top quality 10/60 will do.
Scott

[sib]

Forgot to mention, Walmart has Castrol Edge Supercar in stock typically. Any top quality 10/60 will do.
Scott

Although the manual specifies 10W60 weight, it also specifies API grade G, which contains significantly more ZDDP anti-wear agent than other, higher grade letter oils (e.g., API N).  The extra ZDDP is intended to keep the Guzzi's flat tappets healthier for longer (although it also inactivates catalytic converters faster), whereas most applications for lower-ZDDP oils are mainly intended for roller tappet motors.

[Brand X]

Although the manual specifies 10W60 weight, it also specifies API grade G, which contains significantly more ZDDP anti-wear agent than other, higher grade letter oils (e.g., API N).  The extra ZDDP is intended to keep the Guzzi's flat tappets healthier for longer (although it also inactivates catalytic converters faster), whereas most applications for lower-ZDDP oils are mainly intended for roller tappet motors.

Yes, but with oil there is more to it.. I just refer to my oil engineer friend, because his company sells most of the additive packages to the major players.

Ester in the base stock is about as good as it gets.. I am running the 7100 now, and will stick to it for now. The other makers of the ester based stuff is outstanding too.

https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/7100_4t_10w-60_en_fr_motul_20210305.pdf

I spend more Money on my air- compressor oil.. Has some excellent benefits too..Probably more so than Motorcycle/Car oil etc..

   

[Beowulf]

   I believe your manual calls for 10 w 60. Depending on your climate and riding style you can adjust somewhat.  My preference would be Royal Purple 10w60.




     Paul B 

. 


I’m gonna strongly second the 10w60 xpr. Ran xpr in my Harley and V7 ii for quite a few miles and now my V7 850 it’s been great love the additive pack and even watched a lot of friction testing on it ( realize that’s not all there is to measuring an oils performance) it really held up in stop and go traffic drains clean. You could say im a fan. Can’t resist any kind of oil thread…..

[Bulldog9]

I run 10W60 in the Griso, 1200 Sport and Stornello, rotate between Motul, Liquimoly, or Edge, whatever is cheaper.

[dennylee11]

Thanks all!
Just what I needed to know. I'll find a good 10/60 and use that.

[Kiwi_Roy]

10 60 Full Synthetic Motorcycle oil NOT car oil
Motul make a 10/60 for both Motorcycle and Car but I believe they are quite different.

[Brand X]

Thanks all!
Just what I needed to know. I'll find a good 10/60 and use that.

You don't have to run good, when you can use top tier oil for the same price..

https://www.chapmoto.com/maxima-maxum4-extra-10w60-oil.html?sku=353-0987&identifiers=pla-4581115209675984&Campaign=Shop%20-%20Discovery&CampaignId=401692762&AdGroup=Ad%20group%20%231&AdGroupId=1240249363685582&AdId=77515731184895&Network=s&msclkid=1328dfcf639c1a13b399bddddc578fea&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shop%20-%20Discovery&utm_term=4581115209675984&utm_content=Ad%20group%20%231

[jacksonracingcomau]

Although the manual specifies 10W60 weight, it also specifies API grade G,
Scott

Best answers so far, viscosity not cast in stone, oil spec is

10 60 Full Synthetic Motorcycle oil NOT car oil
Motul make a 10/60 for both Motorcycle and Car but I believe they are quite different.

Yes, wet clutch won’t slip, not sure of relevance but if you use correct spec it really doesn’t matter, you could also use m/c oil in a car if specced right

[aklawok]

 I went with Motul 7400 4t 10w60:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002LGMARM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1
and then add(half bottle per gallon)  revX ZDDP:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZ4M2BA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1
but I am a noob here..so what do I know!

[LowRyter]

My local O'Reillys keeps it in stock. I believe most of their stores also keep it on the shelf. It is what I use. I haven't checked to see what is recommended for my new Triumph but this is what I will use in it. It just had its first mandatory service, they put 10W40 300V Motul in it. But I think I will probably use the Edge. I will do more research before it's next oil change.
kk

300V is racing oil.  Motul does not recommend that it be topped up with non synth or other weights.  Perhaps not the best oil if traveling and needing to add oil. 

Full synth 7100 or Blend 5100 is appropriate to mix with other oils.  I bring this up because I read the specs for Motul when I was doing the first oil change on my Ducati.

[Moparnut72]

I don't know why they put that oil in the bike. Triumph recommends Castrol. Thanks for the heads-up. I am not real familiar with Motul products even though we sold them when I worked at NAPA. One local shop wanted Motul oil when they serviced BMWs and some other German cars. I know it was expensive as the oil itself came to $75. It was the first paid for service but still came out of my pocket in the long run.
kk

[LowRyter]

I don't know why they put that oil in the bike. Triumph recommends Castrol. Thanks for the heads-up. I am not real familiar with Motul products even though we sold them when I worked at NAPA. One local shop wanted Motul oil when they serviced BMWs and some other German cars. I know it was expensive as the oil itself came to $75. It was the first paid for service but still came out of my pocket in the long run.
kk

Motul is high quality oil and the 7100 and 5100 are about the same price as Castrol synth and blend motorcycle oil.   Given the valve trains for most motorcycles vs cars, I'd defer to motorcycle specific oil according the manual. 

[slowmover]

BMW car dealers used to have Castrol on the shelf.

[Old Jock]

300V is racing oil.  Motul does not recommend that it be topped up with non synth or other weights.  Perhaps not the best oil if traveling and needing to add oil. 

Full synth 7100 or Blend 5100 is appropriate to mix with other oils.  I bring this up because I read the specs for Motul when I was doing the first oil change on my Ducati.

I'm pretty certain if it was incompatible Motul would say so, all they state is if you mix it you dilute its properties

Motul simply state
For optimum engine and gearbox performance, avoid mixing with other synthetic or mineral lubricants.

Although a racing oil Motul state Under Type of Use
Race bikes fitted with high performance 4 stroke engines, integrated gearbox or not, wet or dry clutch.
Race engines operating over a wide range of temperatures and rpm: Speed bikes, MotoGP, SuperSport, Superbike, uphill,
hill climb ...
Other uses: street bikes fitted with catalytic converters, ATV’s, UTV’s...

Used in a lot of street Ducatis etc

Great oil that I've run Guzzis on but I do reckon its overkill.

As I recall from the V11 forum it contains about 1000ppm Zinc, which is marginal for flat tappet engines

No clue about the V7 specifically but Guzzis in general don't have a reputation for drinking much oil, unlike say some BMW boxer engined bikes

All that said I agree if wanting to use Motul I'd go with 7100

300V is only available as 15/60, the 7100 is available as a 10/60

Personally, I'm putting Penrite in this change but also considering Royal Purple on the next as they both contain high zinc levels and are full Synth oils

That's just my interpretation though

[kballowe]

Just FYI - the JASO MA/MA2 spec limits zinc to 800 ppm.
In case anyone wanted to know.

[rocker59]

I have used a lot of Mobil-1 V-Twin 20w50 over the years.  I also have used the BMW 10w60.

The great thing about Mobil-1 V-twin oil is that it's available at Autozone and O'Reilly's auto parts stores, so easy to get anywhere.


https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-personal-vehicles/our-products/products/mobil-1-v-twin-20w-50/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PVL_Traffic_Brand_Mobil1_General_Exact&utm_content=Product_General_V-Twin&utm_term=mobil%201%20v-twin&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_tK6npeR9gIVtBXUAR3x7AqcEAAYASAAEgJEpvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Two Checks]

20-50 is not the correct spec. Viscosity is also one of the specifications of the oil.
Triumph and others recommend certain brands because they are paid to do so.
Still dont know why people call the lifters, "tappets". They dont tap anything. If they do you have a serious problem. The tapping is done at the rocker/valve stem interface. 

[Beowulf]

Just FYI - the JASO MA/MA2 spec limits zinc to 800 ppm.
In case anyone wanted to know.

Honest question but isn’t the Jason ma spec irrelevant considering Guzzi V7’s have a dry clutch?

[Two Checks]

Has nothing to do with the clutch. EPA limited ZDDP due to going catcons. Flat LIFTERS need the ZDDP.

[LowRyter]

I'm pretty certain if it was incompatible Motul would say so, all they state is if you mix it you dilute its properties

Motul simply state
For optimum engine and gearbox performance, avoid mixing with other synthetic or mineral lubricants.

Although a racing oil Motul state Under Type of Use
Race bikes fitted with high performance 4 stroke engines, integrated gearbox or not, wet or dry clutch.
Race engines operating over a wide range of temperatures and rpm: Speed bikes, MotoGP, SuperSport, Superbike, uphill,
hill climb ...
Other uses: street bikes fitted with catalytic converters, ATV’s, UTV’s...

Used in a lot of street Ducatis etc

Great oil that I've run Guzzis on but I do reckon its overkill.

As I recall from the V11 forum it contains about 1000ppm Zinc, which is marginal for flat tappet engines

No clue about the V7 specifically but Guzzis in general don't have a reputation for drinking much oil, unlike say some BMW boxer engined bikes

All that said I agree if wanting to use Motul I'd go with 7100

300V is only available as 15/60, the 7100 is available as a 10/60

Personally, I'm putting Penrite in this change but also considering Royal Purple on the next as they both contain high zinc levels and are full Synth oils

That's just my interpretation though

I'm not sure exactly sure what you're trying to say.  If it has to do with Motul 300?  Just go to Motul fact sheet and it clearly states that the 300v is racing oil and not recommended to mix with non synth and weights.  I'm not going to bother to look it up again.  Perhaps you can find something different?  OK. I might be wrong.

I like 5100 for cost and flexibility.  I don't go to the factory limit of 9k miles.  4500 miles should be good enough for me for my Ducati.  I use Castrol Motorcycle 20-50 blend in my Guzzis.

BTW- I did talk to Bobby Shreck about it.  He runs the Moto America Ducati Superbike team.  He uses 300V and changes it out at every session.

[SmithSwede]

When I could no longer get the AGIP stuff I switched to Golden Spectro’s 10W-60.

That is a Group 4 POA base stock synthetic with 1800 ppm ZDDP.

I can’t prove this, but my hunch is that relatively high levels of ZDDP are probably important for the little small block, like Sib said above.  I’m not at all sure you need a 10W-60 weight oil.  True, I like the 60 weight in August in Texas while sitting in traffic.  But most of the time I suspect a cheaper 20-50 or 10-40 would be fine.  But Guzzi specifies 10-60, so I’ll follow their decree. 

I am comfortable running the good stuff 6 or 7,000 miles between changes.  Oil filter change every second or third oil change. 

[Old Jock]

I'm not sure exactly sure what you're trying to say.  If it has to do with Motul 300?  Just go to Motul fact sheet and it clearly states that the 300v is racing oil and not recommended to mix with non synth and weights.  I'm not going to bother to look it up again.  Perhaps you can find something different?  OK. I might be wrong.

I like 5100 for cost and flexibility.  I don't go to the factory limit of 9k miles.  4500 miles should be good enough for me for my Ducati.  I use Castrol Motorcycle 20-50 blend in my Guzzis.

BTW- I did talk to Bobby Shreck about it.  He runs the Moto America Ducati Superbike team.  He uses 300V and changes it out at every session.

Hi LowRyter

I'm not wanting a "he said" "you said" on this, the quotes on the previous post were lifted straight from the Motul PDS sheet for 300V from the Motul web site.

They used to say 300V was compatible with all other synthetics and mineral oil, now the statement is a little more circumspect.

The way I read the statement is nothing bad is going to happen if you mix 300V with something else, but you "dilute" its properties, that's all.

If you percieve it as 300V cannot be mixed with anything else then that's fine

I agree that 7100 or 5100 will be more than good enough for a Guzzi (unless perhaps you're planning to thrash the life out it on the track on a regular basis).

If I was going to use it again, I'd ask Motul what the ZDDP concentration is though, that's why I've went to Penrite and considering the Royal Purple next time.

I've ran the 300V 15/50 in my 2V bikes and my HiCam, all 3 are older bikes.

The HiCam runs hot and the pressure drops in traffic.

300V is on the thinner side of its rating, at least the 15/50 is at 100C it's 17mm^2/s Penrite is 17.7mm^2/s (4% thicker) and 5100 is 18.3mm^2/s (8% thicker) for the same 15/50 viscosity rating. Not all oils that have the same quoted grade have the same viscosities

From my experience the 2 v/v engines are rock solid and run perfectly well on a 50 weight, the early 4 v/v engines may or may not need a 60 weight as some of them run hot.

I've seen temps of 130C on the HiCam in traffic and with a 50 weight the pressure is dropping through the floor, in clear air it runs around 110C at 60psi.

The 2 v/v engines on the other hand have always been rock solid even when stuck in traffic always giving 60psi at a little over 2k RPM.

I know what temps and pressures my engines run, it's just my take but if you're going to start messing around with oil grades, I think it's a good idea to have some clue about the basic parameters the oil is being subjected to

The more modern engines I haven't got a clue.

I hope that clears up the differences, YMMV, then that's understood. All I've stated is anectodal from experience with only 5 or 6 Guzzi engines, with very limited knowledge of a complex subject.

John

[kballowe]

Honest question but isn’t the Jason ma spec irrelevant considering Guzzi V7’s have a dry clutch?

Right.  However, some want that rating simply because it's a motorcycle

[LowRyter]

Hi LowRyter

I'm not wanting a "he said" "you said" on this, the quotes on the previous post were lifted straight from the Motul PDS sheet for 300V from the Motul web site.

They used to say 300V was compatible with all other synthetics and mineral oil, now the statement is a little more circumspect.

The way I read the statement is nothing bad is going to happen if you mix 300V with something else, but you "dilute" its properties, that's all.

If you percieve it as 300V cannot be mixed with anything else then that's fine

I agree that 7100 or 5100 will be more than good enough for a Guzzi (unless perhaps you're planning to thrash the life out it on the track on a regular basis).

If I was going to use it again, I'd ask Motul what the ZDDP concentration is though, that's why I've went to Penrite and considering the Royal Purple next time.

I've ran the 300V 15/50 in my 2V bikes and my HiCam, all 3 are older bikes.

The HiCam runs hot and the pressure drops in traffic.

300V is on the thinner side of its rating, at least the 15/50 is at 100C it's 17mm^2/s Penrite is 17.7mm^2/s (4% thicker) and 5100 is 18.3mm^2/s (8% thicker) for the same 15/50 viscosity rating. Not all oils that have the same quoted grade have the same viscosities

From my experience the 2 v/v engines are rock solid and run perfectly well on a 50 weight, the early 4 v/v engines may or may not need a 60 weight as some of them run hot.

I've seen temps of 130C on the HiCam in traffic and with a 50 weight the pressure is dropping through the floor, in clear air it runs around 110C at 60psi.

The 2 v/v engines on the other hand have always been rock solid even when stuck in traffic always giving 60psi at a little over 2k RPM.

I know what temps and pressures my engines run, it's just my take but if you're going to start messing around with oil grades, I think it's a good idea to have some clue about the basic parameters the oil is being subjected to

The more modern engines I haven't got a clue.

I hope that clears up the differences, YMMV, then that's understood. All I've stated is anectodal from experience with only 5 or 6 Guzzi engines, with very limited knowledge of a complex subject.

John

John, I think your statement is correct.  I researched the fact sheet a couple of years ago and see that the wording was changed and more closely says to what you say. 

OTOH, 300v is racing oil and costs more.  And is somewhat less practical given Motul's descriptions.