Upgrade front or rear suspension first

[drab]

I have a 2018 V7iii stone.  I am wanting to upgrade my suspension - with comfort being the priority.  Right now going over expansion joints or whatever can be brutal - especially compared to my dad's super smooth BMW R1200.  I weigh 175 if that matters.

If I were only going to do improved front  springs  (maybe an emulator or ?)   or improved rear - (suggestions?) what would you suggest.

I am the opposite of a performance rider.  I just tool along at fairly slow speeds.

[Jack Straw]

The know-it-all population will tell you to do both front and rear at once.  This is good advice if you have the bucks and actually know what needs help.

Most of us who change suspension components don't get it right the first time.  Experienced professional advice is best but it's thin on the ground.  Hamlin Cycle in Bethel, CT has a good rep on suspension tweaks.

On the V7III, some say at 175 lbs. rider weight the springing is tolerable but the damping is weak.  I weigh 210 and the rear bottoms easily with stock springs at max pre-load  The front is tolerable for me.

When asking other V7III riders beware of advice.  Many riders will be deluding themselves as we all tend to get invested in our mods (I've been guilty of this over and over).

I, too, want a smooth but controlled ride.  I'm currently trying out some Hagon 2810 dampers, I chose 360mm length and 20kg springs.  I'll report results after a couple more rides.  I'm as yet undecided on fork mods but I'll likely go a little stiffer on both springs and damping but I'll stop short of emulators or replacement cartridges.

[Sye]

At 175lbs you are probably the ideal weight. If it was me I would ensure that the stock suspension was set up properly before spending any money. Also ensure that your tyres are not over inflated. If the front forks are too stiff try lower weight fork oil.

There are lots of things that can improve stock suspension. If you struggle to do it yourself find someone to set it up for you. Could be a cheap and convenient improvement.

[Jack Straw]

Yep, at the front maybe just try a different viscosity fork oil for more or less damping.  Unless I know for a fact what weight is in the forks I usually start with 10. 

I had a 90 mile ride today and the Hagons with 20kg springs worked well, not bottoming even over a couple of nasty spots..  I have the damping adjustment at mid point and pre-load at minimum 

[drab]

This is helpful advice.

[usedtobefast]

I think the rear is worse than the front ... so if you could only pick one, I'd pick the rear. 

I have a Stornello (v7 ii basically) that has the longer travel Hagon Enduro Shocks on it, and wow, WAY better than stock v7 iii shocks.

So if it was me ... I would get those shocks and stiffer fork springs (with proper spring preload) at the same time.  If you only put those shocks on and the front is sagging low with the stock set up, it might not work so well.

Oh, I weigh 155lbs and I think a v7 iii stock fork springs are too soft and have too little (zero?) spring preload.  So I guess, if you are really really thrifty, you could make up some spacers for the front springs to put a bit of spring preload on them to hold the front up a bit higher. 

[mechanicsavant]

I’ve V7 MkII & a V7/850 the biggest single improvement I made was to radial tires . 90% of the harshness in the suspension vanished ! Poof like vulcanized magic !

[kingoffleece]

I've assisted Hamlin many times on bike set up and suspension fixes.  The VERY first thing is to be sure SAG is correct for your motorcycle.
You are in the ballpark for OEM calibration weight-SAG is an important component to get right.

[Off @ 90]

Hi,
I am 171 pound and have found adding 10mm fork  spacers gave  me approx 40 mm rider sag with OEM springs on the Stornello.
 I have recently installed YSS PD emulator valves in forks and am very pleased with results. There is some initial adjusting and I replaced the original emulator preload spring with a lower rate spring approx 20#" . My final adjustment was 5.5 turns on emulator preload , 150mm air gap with emulators in & fork springs out & forks fully compressed and 15wt Fork oil. The emulators work very well on sharp high speed bumps and fork dive under braking is very much reduced .
For $120 dollar and a drill press you have adjustable compression dampening and use oil wt to get the rebound right .I have set mine up on the firm side rather than plush. You don't get that harsh hydraulic lock feel either that damper rod forks are known for on high fork velocity bumps.
The rear shocks I will replace with Hagon 2810 units  and at least have some dampening adjustment on rear plus lower rate springs .

[Alfetta]

Just my opinion...

My V7(3) is stock at around 6K miles, the front seems to be ok mostly, It dives more than i like, but it is plush and i have confidence with it in the corners. The rear shocks however, are harsh, and a sharp edge bump is directly translated into my spine...   They are less that poor...  I have learned to "load the pegs" it i can see a bump coming.

Notes: Sag has been set, am I'm a teeny bit on the heavy side of things.. 

[coast range rider]

Take a couple psi out of each tire to mute the edge of the jarring impact. Then check cold and hot pressures to verify you are not getting more than 10% difference. And remember this is valid for more comfort even after you upgrade the suspension.

[kingoffleece]

THAT is solid advise.

[John Croucher]

I would reduce the rear preload first.  You probably have the rear shocks set to hard.  Reduced the dampening.

Then put lighter oil in the front.

Putting stiffer shocks will not make a softer ride. 

[twowheeladdict]

I have a 2018 V7iii stone.  I am wanting to upgrade my suspension - with comfort being the priority.  Right now going over expansion joints or whatever can be brutal - especially compared to my dad's super smooth BMW R1200.  I weigh 175 if that matters.

If I were only going to do improved front  springs  (maybe an emulator or ?)   or improved rear - (suggestions?) what would you suggest.

I am the opposite of a performance rider.  I just tool along at fairly slow speeds.

Here are my 'non-expert' thoughts.

Check the static sag at both ends of the bike.  If you can't get proper static sag at the front,  then that needs attention.  If it sags too much spacers can be created.  If it doesn't sag enough then lighter spring rate springs are needed.

Going with gold valve emulators for more control on flow can help.  A lighter weight oil may suffice in softening the compression damping.

If you get proper static sag at the rear with the preload set at around 1/3 of the preload adjustment distance the rear spring is fine.

When going over those expansion joints, if you feel a jarring hit in your arms the damping on the front needs attention.   If you feel it in your spine the rear shock needs replacing with a shock that allows damping adjustment.

Good luck.

[kingoffleece]

If you EVER open up the front forks put in Gold valves.  REALLY inexpensive and work quite well.  As delivered damper rod front ends will NEVER be acceptable with the exception of a very narrow range-which almost never happens over a span of mote that 10 minutes-that's way they suck and should be changed.

[Sye]

I've been riding bikes a long and have never owned a bike with stock suspension that can't be improved upon. Setting static sag properly is the first thing to do. Ride it, see what has improved and deal with what still bothers you.

It sounds like you are looking to improve low to moderate speed comfort. That should easilly be achievable with a few adjustments, different preload settings or spacers and fork oil weight.

Most but not all aftermarket shocks are designed to work best when your riding and cornering hard. As a result, they can be very harsh when ridden at moderate speeds.

I've ridden with plenty of guys who spent thousands on suspension and can't keep up with the rest of us on stock setups. Correct adjustment is key.

Save your cash, get someone to set the bike up for you and report back 👍

[Kev m]

I was gonna keep quiet because this is largely a very personal thing.

Some guys are all about suspension, and others can care less, and there's so much in between.

I guess for starters you have to ask yourself what your goal is? At the end of the day I'd be VERY skeptical that you will ever get it to feel like an R1200. But I could be wrong.

I would consider the following in order of escalation depending on how far you want to take this:

* Pay attention to tire pressures as noted.
* Test and set Sag
* Consider a fork oil change
* Consider better shocks
* Consider a fork rebuild

The last two items can run from inexpensive to expensive custom built/setup.

I think it goes without saying that the further down the list and more in depth you go with those items the bigger a change you'll see.

But HERE's what slows me down from just saying "Call Hamlin and have him set it up" - I have no doubt the BEST results would come from something that thorough. I just have NO IDEA how close you actually want to be to that result (for that price).

You MIGHT be happy with the first one or two or even three items on that list.

Personally I've owned and ridden bikes with incredible adjustable adjustable suspensions that were set up properly. I understand what you MIGHT achieve. I don't CARE enough in normal riding such that currently 3 of our 4 bikes have their "adequate for my desires" suspensions, and only the V7 Stone has replacement shocks on the rear. I MAY install better shocks on the RK eventually, but I don't know if the Ducati or V7III will ever see those changes because their diminutive primary rider doesn't care enough and they work "well" enough for me when I take them for a spin.

[Dave Swanson]

My 2015 V7 had the worst rear suspension I had ever experienced.  I purchased a set of Progressive shocks from Moto International that Dave Richardson recommend I try.  They were a huge improvement.   I never felt compelled to upgrade the front forks, but the rear shocks was a different story.

I thought my rigid HD bob/chop had better compliance than those stock shocks.  They had to go ASAP!   

[jpv7]

If you EVER open up the front forks put in Gold valves.  REALLY inexpensive and work quite well.  As delivered damper rod front ends will NEVER be acceptable with the exception of a very narrow range-which almost never happens over a span of mote that 10 minutes-that's way they suck and should be changed.

+1 on this as many preach about oil and springs only.  It’s only a bit more expensive to do the gold valves, and they really do transform the front end.  The bike is more comfortable and easier to ride briskly if you so choose.  Most of my friends that I ride with have bigger, faster bikes, and the suspension upgrades really do help make up for the power disadvantage of the V7.

[jhem68]

+2 on gold valve emulators. Contact Race Tech and you can fill in your particulars and they will match springs, emulator set up and oil for your needs. If you feel that modifying the damping rods are too technical for your mechanical expertise than send the forks to Race Tech (or find a competent shop near you) and they will have it set up to your info provided to them.

After having performed this fork mod on my Breva 750, I was impressed enough that I felt it necessary to upgrade my Milano V7lll.

Rear shocks on both were upgraded to Ikons with the damping adjustablity.  As Dave Swanson noted the rear shocks on the Breva 750 were by far the worst rear suspension of any motorcycle I've ever owned in 54 years of riding motorcyles. The V7lll isn't as bad but the Ikons were an improvement for my 155 lb weight.

My .02

[bad Chad]

As you know the suspension at both ends is budget stuff. 
Do the rear shocks first, it will get you your biggest single improvement where your looking for.
You are just the right weight to fully benefit from off the shelf after market shocks.  Based on your riding requirements $300-400 Ikon or similar units will make for a very substantial improvement. 

[9fingers]

I had the same spine crushing, catapult launching on my V7III Special. I am close to Jack Straws weight at about 220 in riding gear. No matter how you set your rear shocks they have inadequate damping. Changing them for ANY decent rear shocks will be a big improvement. I went with the Hagon Nitro shocks, which lean towards performance more than comfort. I would follow Jack Straw's lead and get the Hagon 2810S, decent shocks with damping adjustment, made to your spec, and not expensive.
Scott

[old head]

Last year, one of my fork seals began weeping, then a full on leak ~50k.  Since I had to replace the seals, I changed the fork springs to a spring rated to my weight, went to 10 weight oil while I had it apart.  Made a marked improvement in the way if rode and handled.  I am not a knee dragger, just like to ride.  As an observation, the oil was clear and not dirty.

While, the rear is sufficient when I am riding by myself, with the wife and luggage, the rear shock really shows it age and that load is taxing what it can handle.  So at some point it will be replaced, probably a TRX unit with an appropriate spring.

It would seem that the more aggressive you ride, the greater the need to top quality suspension, IMO. 

Old Head

[Jack Straw]

The best price I found on the 2810 Hagon dampers was Hitchcocks in England.  They're a big Royal Enfield supplier but they stock the Hagons in the appropriate 360mm length.  They swapped the stock 18kg spring for a 20kg chrome spring at no extra charge and delivered them to Arizona in 7 days, all for $312.00.

I did need to change the bushings to the 12mm i.d. so that can add a few bucks. Fortunately I had some in my parts stash.

The stock V7III damper is 350mm.  Guzzi Tech says 370mm works but that's the max.

If a guy enjoys twisty roads (who doesn't???) it's not a bad idea to push the fork tubes up 15mm or so in the triple clamps.  This makes the bike a little quicker to turn in but doesn't affect straight line stability. 

[jpv7]

+2 on gold valve emulators. Contact Race Tech and you can fill in your particulars and they will match springs, emulator set up and oil for your needs. If you feel that modifying the damping rods are too technical for your mechanical expertise than send the forks to Race Tech (or find a competent shop near you) and they will have it set up to your info provided to them.

After having performed this fork mod on my Breva 750, I was impressed enough that I felt it necessary to upgrade my Milano V7lll.

Rear shocks on both were upgraded to Ikons with the damping adjustablity.  As Dave Swanson noted the rear shocks on the Breva 750 were by far the worst rear suspension of any motorcycle I've ever owned in 54 years of riding motorcyles. The V7lll isn't as bad but the Ikons were an improvement for my 155 lb weight.

My .02

I should also add that the technical support from Racetech was excellent.  I just emailed them and they got back to me quickly with exactly how to set up the Gold valves according to my weight and riding style.  I did not need to go back in to make any adjustments.  That’s service!

[kingoffleece]

I know the guy that developed a lot of the specs used for that.
bang for the buck it's hard to beat Gold valves.  A good reason to use an experienced fitter is that they are non adjustable when install is complete.
Get it right the first time is easier.

[Off @ 90]

To me the forks are more important than the rear shocks but of course take more work if you are doing it your self.
If you fit Racetech style  emulators you must be prepared to to pull them out and adjust unless you are really lucky.
I did this 3 times takes  about 45 min each time and a bit messy. I set them too firm then too plush then third time went in the middle but on the firm side  . Happy with the result and will not touch them now. Probably better getting cartridges if you don't want to pull the emulators to fine tune compression dampening intially but way more dollars .

[kingoffleece]

Very well stated.  Hence my comment of using an experienced installer if you desire a "one and done".  Nothing wrong with trial and error, mind, if you go that way.

[Bulldog9]

I have a 2018 V7iii stone.  I am wanting to upgrade my suspension - with comfort being the priority.  Right now going over expansion joints or whatever can be brutal - especially compared to my dad's super smooth BMW R1200.  I weigh 175 if that matters.

If I were only going to do improved front  springs  (maybe an emulator or ?)   or improved rear - (suggestions?) what would you suggest.

I am the opposite of a performance rider.  I just tool along at fairly slow speeds.

I'd update the rear first, but think both ends will be necessary. I've never been picky on suspension, and the only bike I HAD to swap out suspension was my V7ii Stornello. Was fine for tooling around town, slow and smooth streets, but anything at speed or real roads with cracks and frost heave about ruptured my already compromised L2&3....

You can spend a mint with emulators and gold valve blaa blaa, but I found that new fork springs and rear shocks took the Stornello from unrideable to plush and pleasant without breaking my wallet. Total cost was about $300 for new KTEC fork springs (7.5lbs) and Hagon Enduro rear shocks. I'm sure prices have gone up, but I spent under $300 in 2018 for both, and less than an hour to do the swaps. 10K miles later the bike is still smooth and GONE are the rough throw you off the seat and bottoming/crashing of the stock bits.



 

[Jack Straw]

After reading suspension threads on a few bike forums it becomes obvious that the issue is about as personal and varied as shoe fit or "what seat is best?"  What suits me might be torture for another guy on the same model.

There's no one size fits all set up.