Loop help please

[adaven]

I have the opportunity to buy a '73 Eldorado at a bargain (I think) price. I am going to look at it tonight to get a general impression. I've only seen it from a few yards away, but it looks complete and nice. I didn't have a chance to ask a lot of questions, but I know it has Nikasil cylinders. Apparently it was "redone" by a fellow in Milwaukee. Don't know who, don't know when.

I think I will have the time to check it out and think about it, but I was hopng that, in the meantime, you experts on the forum would give me things to think about, look at, and ask.

I am a barely adequate mechanic, but would be thrilled to own one of these machines that actually works and that I could ride.

So, please, any words of advice and/or skepticism are welcome. TIA

[Rich A]

One of the things that can be a problem with a loopframe is the generator bracket--it can rock side-to-side and damage the threads in the block. I haven't had one for quite a few years, but as I recall, the "fix" was to use studs instead of bolts to attach the bracket to the block. For extra security, you can weld an arm onto the bracket and attach that to one of the dizzy mounting bolts.

Rich A

[pehayes]

Or, better yet, ditch the heavy generator and install an alternator kit for better low rpm performance.

BTW, what are you used to riding?  The '73 still had drum brakes at both ends.  You can improve them, but they become just slightly better than anemic.
You need to buy or build a balancing manometer and learn how to use it.  Critical and very sensitive for smooth performance on this motor.
You need to enroll in the LoopFrame discussion forum.
You need to bookmark Greg Bender's LoopFrame website.


Patrick  Hayes
Fremont CA

[moto-uno]

  Almost 50 years old eh ? What problems could exist  ?
  If you buy it , get back to us over the years .  Peter

[Kiwi_Roy]

Everybody needs a loop, if it has Nikasil cylinders it will last forever, just buy it otherwise you will live to regret it.
As Moto-Uno says it's a 50 YO bike, what could possibly go wrong.
Sure the brakes aren't the best but they are adequate.
I have retained the generator on mine, it works well.
If the generator bracket breaks off you can always hang it from the frame as Peter did on his Peterbuilt
The exhaust threads on mine stripped out but I have a cheap fix for that.
Its the last bike I will sell, so much fun to ride and gets lots of attention.
<5k$ and its a bargain.

[cappisj1]

I bought a rough but running 74 just over a year ago. Love it!!

What mine needed:
New pistons / cylinders $900 after gaskets and oil changes.
Carb rebuild kits
New fuel lines
Clutch cable after it broke 150 miles from home
Yes a bolt had snapped in the block for the generator bracket. Replaced with studs
Tires
My tank was not original but make sure it’s not rusted and soft around the fuel taps.
Oh needed fuel taps too
Oh check the steering head bearings to see if they are rough

Don’t let that list discourage you. Super easy and straight forward work for any level mechanic. I asked a lot of questions and everyone was super helpful on here with help. I am super proud to ride it knowing I got it running and keep it running. All part of the affair…

Do a quick search for Eldorado here, you’ll find some good reading.

Hope it works out!! You need one.

[adaven]

Thanks folks!
I rode it tonight and enjoyed it quite a bit. The only thing that I noticed was the clutch grabbing. It may just need an adjustment since there is almost no free play. I am pretty sure that the dash isn't original, nor the bags. And the paint is not factory quality.
It needs some tuning, as it drags some at the low end, but it is sweet once it gets to higher RPMs. It feels solid in the twisties and at highway speed.
I am going to meet again tomorrow with the seller and will poke at the gas tank and wiggle the generator.
It is nicely equipped with fancy pants pistons, Mistral silencers, and Borrani wheels.
I see your point about the brakes, but fortunately I have some experience riding antiques that wish they stopped as well as this one.
It is equipped with a Motogadget M-Unit that is a complete mystery to me. But I can learn, I swear I can.
I also feel like I need it, but I also feel like I need my W650, which I would have to sell.
Decisions, decisions
Please keep the advice coming...

[Tom H]

It looks good!

In the only picture.

The Gen is an Alt. Looks like a Greg Fields conversion Scrambler Cycle conversion. It's a civilian bike. Dash looks right. Wixom aftermarket bags, I think desireable bags.

Would I want one for my ONLY bike, eehhh, maybe not. If I had two of them, wait I do, then I would go for it. They are reliable once sorted. But to be honest, I would like a modern bike as a backup if it's your only mean of transport. Or the Loop as a backup to the modern

Good luck with your choice. I would go for it if the pocketbook allows.
Tom

[pehayes]

Very  nice.  Yes, that has already been converted to an alternator.  I don't think there was anything such as original bags at this time.  There were several after-market options with Wixom being the most popular.  These are Wixom bags.  Originally they would have had a 'pebble' finish on the sides.  Likely they were scratched at some time, the pebbling was sanded off, leaving a smooth and shiny side finish.

What is that black hunk of metal sticking up near the tail lamp?  Not normal.

The high-rise 'ape' bars are not original.

Stainless headers and mufflers.  Very nice!

The clutch grabbing is a bit worrisome.  Likely it is a worn hub spline or flywheel splines.  You can milk it along by flushing out the bell housing and clutch with mineral spirits.  The grabbing will return in about 1,000 miles.  The only true solution is pulling the motor and replacing the worn clutch and flywheel bits.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[adaven]

Images,
I hope these help some:

[Cam3512]

Looks good from here!

[larrys]

Looks nice! Has the expensive upgrades already, cylinders and alternator. Can we ask the price?
Larry

[vintagehoarder]

Looks like a keeper, loops are amazing and mystical!!

[cliffrod]

Flushing the clutch may clear some leaked oil from the plates but won't solve any issues related to clutch vs hub wear.  The loops and early Tonti bikes have a clutch & input hub with square splines.  as those splines wear, small notches are formed across the splines and impair the clutch actuation as it slides along those splines & over those notches.  The only solution is to replace the clutch and input hub with original or upgraded v-spline clutch & input hub.  It's a fairly involved job but isn't that difficult to do and will transform a clutch that was previously hard to use with confidence into something great.  Ask the seller if it's been done, upgraded already and see what he says.  You can also check other areas for wear, loose adjustment of cable, levers.  Even one broken wire in a cable can impair function of brake or clutch.

If the rest of the bike is well-sorted, new cylinders, alternator upgrade, stainless exhaust bits, etc and price is not BaT nuts, doing the clutch wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.  At least then I would know it's even better prepared to ride.  I would much rather have old bikes than new ones, including a loop over a W650, but that's just me.
 

[chuck peterson]

The seller has also recognized the thread issue between header and cylinder….i see safety wire holding them in place..

Someone’s gonna snatch that away from you if you hesitate

I won’t think it’s a daily city driver but needs long open road…when they start up it’s looking for a hundred miles, not 10…

See if you can put any slack at the cable on the lever…fuss w it and whine quietly about the grabbing clutch…see if the seller responds about it.. clutch parts are $600-$800 plus hourly rate at a shop unless you can do it…ask the seller to take you for a ride, see how they handle the clutch…may not be grabbing for them

This is a drum brake model, one step away from fame without the disc brake on front. I like that because they’re generally 25~35% cheaper…guzzi content

Good luck!

Really nice bike

[Dave Swanson]

That W650 is a pretty petite bike.  You should be able to squeeze them both in the garage.   

[adaven]

That W650 is a pretty petite bike.  You should be able to squeeze them both in the garage.   

So I can move the EV sidecar rig to your place ?

Thank you for all of this gentlemen. I'll get back to you after a summit with the fellow who is the current owner.

I am uncharacteristicall y optimistic.

[Tiki Joe]

I'm with Dave....don't replace a bike but add to the collection!

[ccoli]

I'm in mke if you need any assistance. Think I recognize the bike!

[adaven]

I'm in mke if you need any assistance. Think I recognize the bike!

.
Thanks.
I think the bike was built by Doug Peters in Grafton.

Dave, the PO, and I came to an agreement and I am hopefully picking it up tomorrow.

I paid $5,900. I don't know the market well, and I really like the bike. I know that Kiwi thought it would be a bargain at under 5k, but I am content with the bike and the price. I'm pretty pumped!

Thanks to all for the input

[Dave Swanson]

Congratulations.  No looking back now.  You will become hooked on vintage Guzzi. 

[Cam3512]

FAIR price.

[nick949]

I just finished my 7175 mile trip across Canada to the Pacific. No significant troubles. My clutch was grabby all the way there and all the way back because I'd toasted the intermediate plate in an hour of heavy traffic in eastern Quebec.

Tough bikes, but they need to be ridden, not polished. Bad things happen when bikes just sit.

Nick

[adaven]

Thanks everyone!
I feel like I got a nice bike at a fair price, as Cam said. I'm 72 and feel like I only have 20 years of riding left, so I'd better get going.
I'm sure you'll hear from me when the going gets tough...

[Cam3512]

Here’s mine.  I’ve had three loops over 22+ years,  2 Eldo’s, and now this ‘71 Ambo.  All police models. 

[dublicious]

Alright, done some googling and it's not yet clear so I need to know what in tarnation "loop" means/stands for/is short for? I keep seeing the word "frame" along side it but not really how it relates. Except maybe older design?

[adaven]

Loop frames. Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, and 850 California Police models.

Cam: very, very nice. I am a little envious of the floorboards

[Cam3512]

Loop frames. Moto Guzzi V700, V7 Special, Ambassador, 850 GT, 850 GT California, Eldorado, and 850 California Police models.

Cam: very, very nice. I am a little envious of the floorboards

Curt (vintagehoarder) above put floor boards on his civilian loop.  Might wanna ask him.  If you can find ‘em, they won’t come cheap.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Alright, done some googling and it's not yet clear so I need to know what in tarnation "loop" means/stands for/is short for? I keep seeing the word "frame" along side it but not really how it relates. Except maybe older design?

Models that came from the factory with this frame. You'll notice there are several loops in the frame.

[Tom H]

Congrats! Not a bad price.

Floorboards. Look at Greg Benders site. He has the parts books for the Police version. That will give you some idea of what parts and what needs to be done.

Some floorboards can be fitted with the stock brake and shifter. I don't particularity care for those. Look at the floorboards from an '98 EV for instance. That style is my preferred style.

Very cruddy pics they were from along time ago, but it shows my preferred boards:




Enjoy,
Tom