Author Topic: Top Yoke Free play  (Read 555 times)

Offline Jens_L

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Top Yoke Free play
« on: November 27, 2022, 12:41:15 PM »
Hi guys,

 I'm in the process of an entire bolt and nut restoration ( 750s3). Now when I assemble the headstock ( all of the parts in the parts manual in the correct order, checked multiple times). If I turn the top nut into the top yoke, the nut hits the spacer underneath before 'locking' the top yoke. There is approx. 3mm of play, and i can't really understand why. When browsing this forum, there is a 750s3 restoration thread and I noticed there is a spacer between the top nut and the top yoke as well, I suppose for the same reason(I took the liberty of using the picture from that thread).



I have now put three spacer of 1mm in between the the yoke and the nut, but it is hardly the most elegant solution. Anyone care to share some ideas?

Thanks!

Offline cliffrod

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Re: Top Yoke Free play
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2022, 01:57:25 PM »
My V7 Sport with similar components also has space as indicated in the picture.  Just went and checked to make sure.  Thatís how it has been since I got the bike long ago.

My understanding- The top stem nut has a sleeve body that passes through the top triple tree to tighten against the rest of the stem assembly to secure/lock the assembly after removing free play in the steering stem.  Once the top stem nut is tightened, the Allen head bolt on the triple tree clamp (at rear of triple tree) is tightened to secure it to the sleeve body of the top stem nut.  If there is extra space, thatís not a problem.

This specific top triple tree is not intended to be tightened down onto the stem assembly, only tightened around the sleeve body of the stem nut that is tightened as needed, just like the triple tree is secured by similar clamping fashion to the top of each fork tube.  Some bikes, like a 750 Ambassador or 850 Eldorado, have top triple tree that is secured by tightening a through bolt into the fork tubes and nut on the steering stem.  Others, like the Ceriani style triple tree on our V7 Sport and your S3, have a pinch clamp bolt instead to secure it to the various front end components.

Hope that makes sense.  Iím confident someone will correct me if Iím wrongÖ. Otherwise, good luck with the restoration and post some pics.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2022, 02:07:22 PM by cliffrod »
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExX3YmQel_Q
http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio YuoTube Channel-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifz

Offline Jens_L

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Re: Top Yoke Free play
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2022, 03:21:36 PM »
My V7 Sport with similar components also has space as indicated in the picture.  Just went and checked to make sure.  Thatís how it has been since I got the bike long ago.

My understanding- The top stem nut has a sleeve body that passes through the top triple tree to tighten against the rest of the stem assembly to secure/lock the assembly after removing free play in the steering stem.  Once the top stem nut is tightened, the Allen head bolt on the triple tree clamp (at rear of triple tree) is tightened to secure it to the sleeve body of the top stem nut.  If there is extra space, thatís not a problem.

This specific top triple tree is not intended to be tightened down onto the stem assembly, only tightened around the sleeve body of the stem nut that is tightened as needed, just like the triple tree is secured by similar clamping fashion to the top of each fork tube.  Some bikes, like a 750 Ambassador or 850 Eldorado, have top triple tree that is secured by tightening a through bolt into the fork tubes and nut on the steering stem.  Others, like the Ceriani style triple tree on our V7 Sport and your S3, have a pinch clamp bolt instead to secure it to the various front end components.

Hope that makes sense.  Iím confident someone will correct me if Iím wrongÖ. Otherwise, good luck with the restoration and post some pics.

You Sir, have just made my day. I was wondering if somehow there were different heights of nuts and I had thrown away the lower (original) one.
I will post more pictures in a dedicated topic in a while, but here is one for now  :bike-037:





Offline cliffrod

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Re: Top Yoke Free play
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2022, 05:15:25 PM »
You Sir, have just made my day. I was wondering if somehow there were different heights of nuts and I had thrown away the lower (original) one.
I will post more pictures in a dedicated topic in a while, but here is one for now  :bike-037:





Thanks, man.  Glad I could help.  Your bike is looking great.
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExX3YmQel_Q
http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio YuoTube Channel-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifz

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Re: Top Yoke Free play
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2022, 05:15:25 PM »

Offline John A

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Re: Top Yoke Free play
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2022, 10:43:21 PM »
You Sir, have just made my day. I was wondering if somehow there were different heights of nuts and I had thrown away the lower (original) one.
I will post more pictures in a dedicated topic in a while, but here is one for now  :bike-037:









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Offline moto-uno

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Re: Top Yoke Free play
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2022, 11:39:05 PM »
  Are you even going to consider riding that when you're finished ? Peter

Offline Jens_L

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Re: Top Yoke Free play
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2022, 10:47:04 AM »
Thanks, man.  Glad I could help.  Your bike is looking great.

Thanks, I just realized you're from Spartanburg. I used to work for Milliken and have been there quite often during that period!
At the time we hiked trails next to the blue ridge parkway, I remember how I would love to ride it on my bike one day!

Cheers

Offline cliffrod

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Re: Top Yoke Free play
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2022, 12:30:02 PM »
Thanks, I just realized you're from Spartanburg. I used to work for Milliken and have been there quite often during that period!
At the time we hiked trails next to the blue ridge parkway, I remember how I would love to ride it on my bike one day!

Cheers

Very cool.  Itís a small world.  Milliken is much different now, still significant but now the dominating influence that it once was.  Mr Milliken died several years ago and much of the textile industry has left the area. 

There are still some active companies, as well as one small father & son operation quietly building specialized textile machines.  They also have many European bikes and cars, including an immaculately restored V7 Sport.  BMW now dominates the regional economy.  Their huge & growing operation is just outside Spartanburg.

I love riding my Guzzi up in the mountains between here and Knoxville.  Maybe there are better places to ride, but I am perfectly happy right here.  If you ever make it back to the area, please feel welcome to keep in touch if you like.
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExX3YmQel_Q
http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio YuoTube Channel-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifz

Online Canuck750

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Re: Top Yoke Free play
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2022, 01:29:35 PM »
The S3 was a restoration I completed about five years ago (I think) and I recall needing the washer as per the photo I posted in the thread.
48 Guzzi Airone, 57 Guzzi Cardellino, 65 Benelli 200 sprite, 66 Aermacchi Sprint, 68 Gilera 106 SS, 72 Eldorado, 72 Benelli 180, 74 Guzzi 750S, 73 Laverda SF1, 74  Benelli 650S, 75 Ducati 860GT, 75 Moto Morini 3-1/2, 78 Moto Morinii 500

Offline cliffrod

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Re: Top Yoke Free play
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2022, 01:35:38 PM »
When I was on YouTube just now, this video just popped up in the queue. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOQPH0ggOh4

It shows an SP1000 custom in EU, apparently built and then being ridden by a man named Jen who seems to be a big Moto Guzzi aficionado.  Any chance youíre the same Jens?
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExX3YmQel_Q
http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio YuoTube Channel-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifz

Offline Jens_L

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Re: Top Yoke Free play
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2022, 02:47:32 PM »
When I was on YouTube just now, this video just popped up in the queue. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOQPH0ggOh4

It shows an SP1000 custom in EU, apparently built and then being ridden by a man named Jen who seems to be a big Moto Guzzi aficionado.  Any chance youíre the same Jens?

It isn't me, but it could as well have been, love the Rory Gallagher tune!

Offline cliffrod

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Re: Top Yoke Free play
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2022, 04:24:26 PM »
It isn't me, but it could as well have been, love the Rory Gallagher tune!

Had to askÖ

Looking at your pics, I cannot tell if you have the steering neck lock installed on the stem.  Given how expensive and rare that style of ignition switch is & how easy it can be to damage it with that poorly conceived lock, many people choose not to install it.  That would leave more empty room on the neck assembly.
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExX3YmQel_Q
http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio YuoTube Channel-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifz

Offline Jens_L

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Re: Top Yoke Free play
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2022, 05:37:45 AM »
The S3 doesn't have the steering stem lock, it uses the Neiman steering head lock already.
In fact, if you compare the parts lists of the 750s and the le mans ( which has basically the same triple clamp/ steering head setup as the S3) you can see the plate used for the lock is replaced with a washer ( nr. 25 in the drawing, I presume to make up for the plate).

I had the same idea to just add an extra washer and be done with it. But the end nut of the 'steering Bush' ( nr 24) locks against the washer to soon ( hence play).
So if you would add the extra washer, the top yoke would come up, the 'steering bush' would luck up against the new washer and the end result would be the same.




 

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