Ty wrap brittleness

[John A]

I’ve had problems getting decent Ty wraps, zip ties . Especially in large sizes, 20 inches or better. They must be old in most of the stores for they are useless, they break easily. Very brittle. I have some leftover de ice boot preservative I may try on them. It doesn’t seem to matter about temperature, they are brittle as well when warm. Maybe I can get some fresh ones somewhere, anybody know where? Thanks

[Zenermaniac]

Go for the black ones. The natural and colors are prone to breaking down from UV exposure.

[John A]

I did , no difference

[bmc5733946]

Look for ones that say they are UV protected. If not marked as such they aren't. UV breaks down many types of plastic, find a quality industrial supplier, McMaster Carr, Grainger, MSC, etc., read the specs very carefully regarding load and UV survival.

Brian

[John A]

I was trying to buy locally but have been frustrated at the quality, it doesn’t matter the vendor or color or published specifications, they have been junk even though I try to buy the best ones available. I use them to hold on snow tire chains on my powerchair. It’s like all of them in the Midwest are old and brittle. Two options I’m contemplating are to get some from a law enforcement supplier or make up a set of chains that don’t use Ty wraps. There is not much clearance between the wheels and the frame and if I could find ties that would meet 50% of their claimed strength, that would work fine. I just don’t like the idea of having to discard 90% of the ones I buy because they are defective crap. Either they slip on the cogs or they snap off at random places, no matter if they are at a stabilized sixty five degrees or not. I was hoping someone here had a solution or had recently bought some the were not defective. As the end user I don’t want to be the quality assurance department but it is my responsibility as the installer to decide on their suitability. Most of them fail at installation .Thanks

[fotoguzzi]

Have you tried the stainless steel ones?

https://www.cabletiesandmore.com/stainless-steel-cable-ties?pid=58&gclid=CjwKCAiAhqCdBhB0EiwAH8M_GiG85zSmLXi5aDs0dWfOqTFzBrDpE3eXIQdwQEiNUhF4ulS5QRYahxoC_Q0QAvD_BwE

[John A]

Thanks, Brad. I think I will try the stainless ones. The tires are knobby and the zip ties go in the valley. I put the chains on the outboard side so they won’t come in contact with the floor but grip in the snow as the tire sinks in a little. It really works good and I didn’t want to spend the time to make up a set of chains with proper cross links. It reminds me of fitting chains on semi’s in the Cascades. When you spend a day doing that, you realize you have done a day’s work!

[Stevex]

I've always used aviation industry ty raps. Can't remember one ever letting go.

[berniebee]

Why are your cable ties brittle? They are dried out. I kid you not. Because nylon is hydroscopic, manufacturers typically add 2.5% (by weight) water to the packaging to humidify newly made cable ties.
If you have an open package in the great white north during winter heating season, your ties are going to dry out and become brittle. But adding water also decreases the tensile strength of nylon. So you don't want to soak 'em in a bucket.

Solution: Sprinkle a little water* on your cable ties, then seal them in a closed  Ziplock bag for a day. They will be much less brittle.
 And always store your cable ties in a sealed bag.

*Luckily for you:  "Bernie's Special Zip Tie Humidifier Water " (100% H2O!) is now available for only $12.99 a glass, limited time only.  Come to my house (meet me at the kitchen faucet) for pickup.
But seriously, humidify your cable ties.


 

[Guzzistajohn]

This is obviously a plot orchestrated by some alien entity in an attempt to overthrow earthlings overly obsessed by securely fastened wires and cables. OR, you're using cheap ass wire ties that have sat on a shelf too long 

[SIR REAL ED]

very interesting thread.  thanks.

[Zenermaniac]

Panduit is the brand we used in the telephony industry. The heavier ones you could probably tow a car with.

[Vagrant]

Home depot has bags of 500 in the electrical dept. for about $20. I've used these for years with good luck. In your case I'd put them in a fresh zip lock bag with a dose of armor all sprayed on them. Moisture content and curing time with specific amounts of water are critical with all plastics. 

[80CX100]

I'm not sure what type of chains/tires you're struggling with,but from experience fighting with tire chains on a big old 80 HP Landini tractor,I know your pain.

What almost completely solved my chain issues on that tractor, was biting the bullet and buying a bunch of cheap rubber bungee cords of varying lengths and fastening them on the outside chain links, ie from side to side,top to bottom like spokes on a wheel,but anchored at varying spots to even out the tension all around your chains.

I "think" the key to success was to have them fastened with something that had a bit of give,but still held securely as the tires/chains flexed and moved.

As you're discovering, trying to fasten them securely with no allowance for movement, is an exercise in frustration,btdt

[John A]

Why are your cable ties brittle? They are dried out. I kid you not. Because nylon is hydroscopic, manufacturers typically add 2.5% (by weight) water to the packaging to humidify newly made cable ties.
If you have an open package in the great white north during winter heating season, your ties are going to dry out and become brittle. But adding water also decreases the tensile strength of nylon. So you don't want to soak 'em in a bucket.

Solution: Sprinkle a little water* on your cable ties, then seal them in a closed  Ziplock bag for a day. They will be much less brittle.
 And always store your cable ties in a sealed bag.






That’s interesting, I had learned to keep my weed eater string hydrated and have been trying to hydrate my bigassed ty wraps but so far I’ve not had much success although I do have some out in the shop being treated now.
*Luckily for you:  "Bernie's Special Zip Tie Humidifier Water " (100% H2O!) is now available for only $12.99 a glass, limited time only.  Come to my house (meet me at the kitchen faucet) for pickup.
But seriously, humidify your cable ties.

Do you ship that water? I was thinking if it was dehydrated water it would be easier and cheaper to ship as long as it isn’t that exotic heavy water all the kids want these days….

[John A]

I'm not sure what type of chains/tires you're struggling with,but from experience fighting with tire chains on a big old 80 HP Landini tractor,I know your pain.

What almost completely solved my chain issues on that tractor, was biting the bullet and buying a bunch of cheap rubber bungee cords of varying lengths and fastening them on the outside chain links, ie from side to side,top to bottom like spokes on a wheel,but anchored at varying spots to even out the tension all around your chains.

I "think" the key to success was to have them fastened with something that had a bit of give,but still held securely as the tires/chains flexed and moved.



I’ve got chains on both my tractors, they won’t move much without them. Bungee cords keep them snug alright. I once worked in a large truck shop in Bellingham,Wa. In the fall we would start building, repairing and fitting all the tractors and trailers with chain sets. Then we made or repaired hangers for the chain sets. It was imperative that we fit the chains because if they didn’t fit when the driver went to put them on in the chain up area before crossing the passes, that driver would be apt to get a big piece of my hide. You can’t use bungee cords on an over the road tractors so I got a lot of practice making chain sets that fit well. It’s a lot of welding on a chain set that the links on the cross pieces  are worn flat so I repaired them for my big tractor, actually a small Mitsubishi built for and badged as a 354 International. It’s got a snow blower mounted. My loader tractor, a small sears with an onan is chained up but it’s dead with one cylinder having no compression. It’s buried in the big shed until spring, I ran out of room in the shop because I have a V65C in there for some work and with all the snow, things will stay where they are . But I digress, I was doing well with the wheelchair chains until I discovered all the zip ties in the free world have been compromised.
As you're discovering, trying to fasten them securely with no allowance for movement, is an exercise in frustration,btdt

[aklawok]

 Most zip ties are Chinese and not of constant quality. For extreme cold or critical use I get the 3M branded ones, cost .25 each but worth it t in the end. Need to get them from an electrical supply or similar store.

[Karkaliev]

Have you tried the stainless steel ones?

https://www.cabletiesandmore.com/stainless-steel-cable-ties?pid=58&gclid=CjwKCAiAhqCdBhB0EiwAH8M_GiG85zSmLXi5aDs0dWfOqTFzBrDpE3eXIQdwQEiNUhF4ulS5QRYahxoC_Q0QAvD_BwE

If you scroll down the page, you will see black plastic uv resistant cable ties

[John A]

Bernie B was right of course, the batch I rehydrated yesterday worked like normal. Now I can move on to the snowboards  I will mount under the footpads. I couldn't tell what pics I posted here from this fone but I think I got the right ones. Thanks everyone

[PeteS]

Panduit is the brand we used in the telephony industry. The heavier ones you could probably tow a car with.

This ^^^^^^^

Thats all we used at work and yes black is best for the reasons stated.
The asian ones from Harbor Freight are only slightly better than latex rubber bands and last about as long.

Pete

[John A]

I've always used aviation industry ty raps. Can't remember one ever letting go.

Yep, I’ve not experienced such a high failure rate. I sure miss that aviation scrounge,  oops,I mean work order residue…

[John A]

Panduit is the brand we used in the telephony industry. The heavier ones you could probably tow a car with.

That sounds promising!

[normzone]

Yep, I’ve not experienced such a high failure rate. I sure miss that aviation scrounge,  oops,I mean work order residue…

Oh yeah, got to keep that runway safe.

All of the above, and plastic is made from oil, and is forever tempted to find it's way back ...

[berniebee]

Do you ship that water? I was thinking if it was dehydrated water it would be easier and cheaper to ship as long as it isn’t that exotic heavy water all the kids want these days….

"dehydrated water" 

[Texas Turnip]

John,
Surprised you didn't use binder twine, Guzzi content.

Tex

[Wayne Orwig]

When I was flying RC planes, we would occasionally drop our nylon propellers in a pan of boiling water and let the water cool with them in it. If you didn't, they would be brittle and break easily.
And of course sunlight/UV rots them, so get black only.

[John A]

John,
Surprised you didn't use binder twine, Guzzi content.

Tex

All my binder twine is holding my Guzzi’s together 

[LowRyter]

Thanks for the head's up.  Since zip ties are cheap, I should probably replace critical ones every few years?   I usually keep a stash in my tankbag when I travel.   

[guzziart]

I've always had excellent performance & longevity from Thomas & Betts Ty-Rap brand and Panduit brand nylon ties.  The packages I bought specify UV and weather resistant, UL, CE & CSA rated.  HF = Phooey.

Art