Stepper tutorial

[Huzo]

I’m happy to hear anyone’s input regarding the data readout on the stepper reading.
I have very little knowlege on this.

[SIR REAL ED]

I’m happy to hear anyone’s input regarding the data readout on the stepper reading.
I have very little knowlege on this.

sorry Huzo, I misread the title.

"Stripper Tutorial" piqued my interest......   

[Huzo]

sorry Huzo, I misread the title.

"Stripper Tutorial" piqued my interest......   

Perfectly understandable SRE

[moto-uno]

  What's a "Tipp over inactive" ?    Peter

[Huzo]

  What's a "Tipp over inactive" ?    Peter

The “tip over” switch is a pendulum type arrangement in a small container, that electrically shuts the engine down if it falls over.

[Bulldog9]

Huzo,

Most of the data readouts are a mystery to me, so I can't offer solid input on what 100 means. I don't think I've ever scrolled through all the options to display the stepper motor on the measurements screen.

I do use the stepper option in the actors menu to cycle and test the stepper motor's function.

I bet Beetle/Mark knows. He's pretty responsive to questions so I'd reach out through his website over the Griso ghetto.

[Huzo]

Huzo,

Most of the data readouts are a mystery to me, so I can't offer solid input on what 100 means. I don't think I've ever scrolled through all the options to display the stepper motor on the measurements screen.
I do use the stepper option in the actors menu to cycle and test the stepper motor's function.

I would love to be able to view the stepper position in real time as it is cycling with changing engine rpm.
The diagram page shows graphical information of the TPS performance as throttle is applied and this is a good diagnostic aid.
I think that the numbers are increments that represent the position from fully off to fully open, with the parked, break and maximums registered.
These are early days for me in this area.

[Bigtime]

  Huzo, I have a question about the stepper function. Last week when I was doing the throttle body cleaning on my Norge, I also shot a little cleaner into the stepper and operated the key a few times. What I observed was the stepper did nothing until I switched the key off. Then it sounded like it was going through some process. Is this normal? The Norge starts good and idles well but doesn't high idle when first started like my Stelvio did.

[Huzo]

  Huzo, I have a question about the stepper function. Last week when I was doing the throttle body cleaning on my Norge, I also shot a little cleaner into the stepper and operated the key a few times. What I observed was the stepper did nothing until I switched the key off. Then it sounded like it was going through some process. Is this normal? The Norge starts good and idles well but doesn't high idle when first started like my Stelvio did.

I have noticed this too.
But there is a small cycling of the stepper when powered up, much less noticeable than the shutdown process.

[Bigtime]

 👍. I think the old saying applies here: If it ain't broke don't fix it.😁

[Huzo]

👍. I think the old saying applies here: If it ain't broke don't fix it.😁

Touche’

[Huzo]

Is it possible to display the stepper function on the measurements screen in real time as it’s working…(or not working) ?

[tris]

I think that stepper operation is a bit of a black art as why it does what it does and when!

However,
1) If you go to "actors" in GD you find a switch about the stepper (can't remember the wording) Push it with the engine idling and the revs should change
2) Disconnect everything from the stepper including unbolting for access BAR the electrical connection. Look down the open connections while switching the bike on/off and you should see the valve move
3) After that you're probably into making a circuit up to stroke it on the bench. Its not too hard. Even a Mech E like me managed to do it 

[Huzo]

I think that stepper operation is a bit of a black art as why it does what it does and when!

However,
1) If you go to "actors" in GD you find a switch about the stepper (can't remember the wording) Push it with the engine idling and the revs should change
2) Disconnect everything from the stepper including unbolting for access BAR the electrical connection. Look down the open connections while switching the bike on/off and you should see the valve move
3) After that you're probably into making a circuit up to stroke it on the bench. Its not too hard. Even a Mech E like me managed to do it 

Idle stepper is the last on the list at the bottom of the Actor’s menu. Nothing much seems to happen when you buggerise around with it on GD.
The bike idles nicely at 1150-1200 when at temperature, but the cold idle seems problematic at times.
I am going to take it out a few times to replicate results and fully check that the hot performance is good. I can no longer blame the TPS, it works just fine once it begins to warm. I went to the diagram page and smoothly opening and closing the throttle gave this.


Manipulating the CO trim seems to have minimal effect.
What do some of you 2VPC Norge owners have as a CO figure ?
Mine is currently at +12. It always used to be at +4.
I might take it down to 0 and see what happens.

[tris]

Have you checked the TB spindle butterflies for slop?
On one of the other forums, there was a discussion about weird idle problems caused by  the stepper trying to react to the additional air that was leaking in
Given the mileage that your bike has done it might be worth checking

[Huzo]

Have you checked the TB spindle butterflies for slop?
On one of the other forums, there was a discussion about weird idle problems caused by  the stepper trying to react to the additional air that was leaking in
Given the mileage that your bike has done it might be worth checking

That is a fair point and yes there is some wear, but not extreme and here’s the thing.
This bike started and idled perfectly well when I collected it and 10 minutes later was idling erratically.

[Wayne Orwig]

Have you cleaned the stepper passages?

[tris]

That is a fair point and yes there is some wear, but not extreme and here’s the thing.
This bike started and idled perfectly well when I collected it and 10 minutes later was idling erratically.

Is it repeatable, as if so that would suggest that it changes when hot?
Did you try nipping off the air supply to the Stepper, as that would eliminate that as a cause and allow you to hunt for alternatives

Could be many things

[Huzo]

Have you cleaned the stepper passages?

Yes Wayne.
Took it off, sprayed carb cleaner in while cycling it.

[Huzo]

Is it repeatable, as if so that would suggest that it changes when hot?
Did you try nipping off the air supply to the Stepper, as that would eliminate that as a cause and allow you to hunt for alternatives

Could be many things

I could start the bike cold and squeeze the air off.
Alternatively, I could remove the top of the airbox and plug the hole in there, but all that would do is mess the idle up, because it needs the stepper to function.
I have another known good one from Roper that I will fit, after I have repeated the procedure of riding it.
If I can reliably say it performs well when hot, then I can attack the cold idle in isolation.

[tris]

I had a valve to isolate the air to the stepper from the air box.
Idled bang on 1k with it closed.
 I fitted it initially to help unfubar the sacred screw the PO had messed with before I bought the bike

[Huzo]

I had a valve to isolate the air to the stepper from the air box.
Idled bang on 1k with it closed.
 I fitted it initially to help unfubar the sacred screw the PO had messed with before I bought the bike

As an experiment, I could plumb a temporary line into the pipes that distribute the air to the TB’s AFTER the stepper needle and see if introduction of air into there manipulates the idle.
If it did, that would point squarely at the stepper, but I still would not know if it was a faulty unit or failure in the electrical commands.

[Huzo]

I had a valve to isolate the air to the stepper from the air box.
Idled bang on 1k with it closed.
 I fitted it initially to help unfubar the sacred screw the PO had messed with before I bought the bike

What is your bike Tris, a Norge ?

[Huzo]

What CO numbers are you 2VPC blokes on Norges running.

[Bigtime]

 Beatle map. +4 fuel trim. GPR exhaust with db killer in. I'm at about 1000ft. above sea level here in Kentucky and very happy with the fueling on my Norge. JohnB

[Huzo]

Beatle map. +4 fuel trim. GPR exhaust with db killer in. I'm at about 1000ft. above sea level here in Kentucky and very happy with the fueling on my Norge. JohnB

Yeah +4 was always my setting, at the moment I’m above that to see what type of setting I need.

[tris]

What is your bike Tris, a Norge ?

It was an 1100 Breva
Now a V9 so none of this entertainment with stepper,  just throw the whole thing Inc ECU away and fit a new one
Isn't progress great

[Huzo]

just throw the whole thing Inc ECU away and fit a new one

Hmmmm……..
I might hold off on that one.

[pauldaytona]

Poor idle when cold does not need to do anything with the stepper. A number of the 5am maps are to lean when the engine is cold. when it's to lean, shutting of the stepper won't do anything. Since it's closed anyway in that situation. Adding some fuel in the colder temps in the warm up map helps.

[Huzo]

Poor idle when cold does not need to do anything with the stepper. A number of the 5am maps are to lean when the engine is cold. when it's to lean, shutting of the stepper won't do anything. Since it's closed anyway in that situation. Adding some fuel in the colder temps in the warm up map helps.

A couple of things on that Paul.
Mine has had a Beetle map for 108,000 km and it has been perfect.

“Since it’s closed anyway in that situation…” ?
That is IF it is closed as it should in that situation. The bike cranks a little bit longer than usual when stone cold then idles great for 30 seconds, followed by a bit of hesitation….Then when warm it’s perfect.

Also, this bike was perfect when I collected it from the depot post Europe. When I got home it was idling erratically, it didn’t alter it’s map in 100 km and 60 minutes.
Right now I have a good plastic stepper from Pete Roper and I will do several test rides to get some continuity of performance before throwing it in.