Chineeze V85TT Copy

[guzzisteve]

Done as a 750 at the China bike show, AND no one here mentioned it. Sidecar attached too.
Not to take you away from WG, look over at GT forum for more!!

[Perazzimx14]

 

[Zenermaniac]

They may copy the art but they’ll never capture the soul of Moto Guzzi.

[guzzisteve]

Introductions or if you show recent posts.

[guzzisteve]

They may copy the art but they’ll never capture the soul of Moto Guzzi.

They are making the soul already w/engine parts bought by Piaggio.

[SIR REAL ED]

They may copy the art but they’ll never capture the soul of Moto Guzzi.

The Chinese engineers would probably look at capturing the soul of Moto Guzzi as a massive failure.

Often the whole point of copying a previous design is to improve upon it.

Now if they start outsourcing replacement parts and customer service to Piaggio.......... then we know the Italian infiltrators were successful.   

[SIR REAL ED]

They are making the soul already w/engine parts bought by Piaggio.

So Piaggio is outsourcing the manufacturing of the Italian soul to the Chinese?

That explains why the last cannoli I got at an Italian restaurant tasted a lot like a fortune cookie......

[inditx]

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery but........no thanks.
inditx

[guzzisteve]

Same motor company that made the 750 bmw clone that was older copy than the Russian one.

https://changjiang-europe.com/index.php/en/history/

[jrt]

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery but........no thanks.
inditx

This is what I was thinking.  Moto Guzzi nailed it with the V85- it is a good looking and very capable bike. 

[Muzz]

There is no mention of it on the Chang Jiang home website.

Their parallel twin seems to have all the modern stuff on it though.

[SIR REAL ED]

I've done a bit of searching also.  I haven't found any information that makes me think the bike is real. 

Based on a few mentions I've seen on the internet, it looks like some photoshop pictures and someone's idea of spoofing people.

[steven c]

 They look like tubeless rims wounder if they would ft my 2020.....

[guzzisteve]

Look up the motor show if you think it's fake. Pic taken by a Guzzi owner in China that went to the show. Next years models.

[Perazzimx14]

I wonder why they waste time money and effort copy a bike that sells in such small numbers?

The good news is I betting they'd have a much bigger dealer network??

[Huzo]

How many spokes are there in the front wheel of a current model V85 ?

[Gusable]

Luigi needs to sue.. unless he’s in on it

[SIR REAL ED]

In my mind, it ain't real until Luap buys one and gives us an Owner's Report.

After reading Luap's write up, Piaggio just might have Egg Roll on their faces!   

Anyone know how to say "Wild Guzzi" in Mandarin?

[SIR REAL ED]

I wonder why they waste time money and effort copy a bike that sells in such small numbers?

The good news is I betting they'd have a much bigger dealer network??

Reverse engineering is dirt cheap.  Disassemble and measure.

It'll be a hoot if a long time Guzzi fan buys one and loves it.

Based on what I have read here, sounds like the Piaggio customer service bar height will quite easy to step over.

The Moto Dragon lives!!!

 

[SIR REAL ED]

I wonder why they waste time money and effort copy a bike that sells in such small numbers?

The good news is I betting they'd have a much bigger dealer network??

I see one is a clone of a KTM Duke.

It would be fascinating to talk to someone at that company and ask "How do you decide on which motorcycles you want to copy and produce?"

Perhaps the answer would be: 

"We want to manufacture motorcycles that have a high level of customer satisfaction and enjoyment, that are produced by manufacturers who have a reputation for lousy treatment of their dealers and their customers!  We will take market share away from the other OEM's by not treating our customers and our dealers poorly!!"

THAT, would be a great business plan!

[Tusayan]

They look like tubeless rims wounder if they would ft my 2020.....

Just so you know the tubeless rims on the 2021-on V85TT are also manufactured in China by a Chinese company.  Not sure about the 2020 tube type but I’d guess they are too.

My comment on the Chinese V85TT copy as a whole is that if creating the original isn’t valuable because direct copies come along, and if nobody is penalized and the copies sell, then nobody will create anything of value. 

My own POV as a buyer is that I’d be embarrassed to ride a direct copy of any motorcycle, or to show the world that I’m willing to reward plagiarism with my money.

[SIR REAL ED]

Just so you know the tubeless rims on the 2021-on V85TT are also manufactured in China by a Chinese company.  Not sure about the 2020 tube type but I’d guess they are too.

My comment on the Chinese V85TT copy as a whole is that if creating the original isn’t valuable because direct copies come along, and if nobody is penalized and the copies sell, then nobody will create anything of value. 

My own POV as a buyer is that I’d be embarrassed to ride a direct copy of any motorcycle, or to show the world that I’m willing to reward plagiarism with my money.

I would like to hear more about your perspective.  This is an excellent philosophical topic.
 
How does one determine if the motorcycle one would ride and buy, is produced by the original designer?
Or perhaps more accurately, how does one know what percentage of the machines they currently own and ride are true to the "original design intent?"
Design is an iterative process.  You have probably heard the phrase "No point in redesigning the wheel." 
As someone who has spent a couple decades working as a machine/tool designer, I can tell you with absolute certainty, designers copy and improve on other designer's designs all the time.  It has been happening forever.  That is how designs evolve.

Very few employers ever seek to hire a designer whose goal is to "re-invent the wheel."  Almost always, the goal is a better mouse trap.

Would anyone buy & ride a Laverda SF750, or a Benelli 500 four or 750 six?

What if the Chinese clone bike is of equal or better quality, at an equal or better price, and supported by a manufacturer and dealer network that treats you equally or better than the original OEM and their original dealer network?

Obviously for all of us, the decision tipping points are subjective. 

It would be interesting to hear from everyone, what would it take for each of us to go from "No way!  No how!" on the Chinese Ducati, Chinese Moto Guzzi, or Chinese KTM to "Wow!  That is a good machine, at a fair price, with as good or better support!  I'm in!"

[2WheelsUp]

GuzziTech has a reference to it, called a Defender750.  https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/chinese-made-moto-guzzi.24846/#post-206355

Also, a discussion of it here: https://www.guzzisti.de/forum/topic/11977-v85-tt-china-kopie/#comment-97405. Use the browser translate feature.

Wondering if Piaggio is licensing their motor/drive train to Changjiang?

[jacksonracingcomau]

Looks (to my old eyes) a lot like a genuine v85tt attached to a genuine Chang Jiang sidecar
Ho hum, another third wheel to give all the disadvantages of a motorbike and all the disadvantages of a car
And absolutely NONE of the advantages of either

Some appear to see something else

[Huzo]

Looks (to my old eyes) a lot like a genuine v85tt attached to a genuine Chang Jiang sidecar
Ho hum, another third wheel to give all the disadvantages of a motorbike and all the disadvantages of a car
And absolutely NONE of the advantages of either

Some appear to see something else

Touche’

[Perazzimx14]

Looks (to my old eyes) a lot like a genuine v85tt attached to a genuine Chang Jiang sidecar
Ho hum, another third wheel to give all the disadvantages of a motorbike and all the disadvantages of a car
And absolutely NONE of the advantages of either

Some appear to see something else

But piloting a hack is about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on. Especially when the snow starts flying and an aggressive set of tars on the rig.

Also awesome for beer runs. Personal record was 7 cases of 16 ouncers loaded in a Velorex 562. The crew at the beer distributor was impressed.

[tazio]

Looks (to my old eyes) a lot like a genuine v85tt attached to a genuine Chang Jiang sidecar
Ho hum, another third wheel to give all the disadvantages of a motorbike and all the disadvantages of a car
And absolutely NONE of the advantages of either

Some appear to see something else

I do.
Some things don't always HAVE to make sense to be the right thing to do at the right time.
There's also the wonderful history of hacks and racing
I ran a chair on a 883 Sportster for a couple years.
"The Ultimate Compromise"
Lower gas mileage, accelerated tire wear, weird handling and braking dynamics etc...
But I never regretted a moments time on it! Literally laughing in my helmet as I took the kids through the take out line at McD's. The reaction of a work mate as I was "Flying the Chair" with him in it. Any sidecar outfit is treated like the circuss coming to town, take your dog too, he'll love you for it! Lol
It's just another experience in motorcycling I'm glad to have been a part of.
YMMV
Ha,ha! I see Perrazzimx14 beat me to it !!

[SIR REAL ED]

Hopefully some of these online magazines will do some extensive comparison between the Original bikes and the Chinese clones.

Dear China,

I would like a KTM duke 690 clone with a carb instead of fuel injection.

Thanks in advance,

SRE

[Dave Swanson]

But piloting a hack is about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on. Especially when the snow starts flying and an aggressive set of tars on the rig.

Also awesome for beer runs. Personal record was 7 cases of 16 ouncers loaded in a Velorex 562. The crew at the beer distributor was impressed.

20 years ago I bought a HD sidecar rig so that my wife who was in a wheelchair could have a chance to ride with me again.  When she weakened to the point where riding in the hack wasn't an option anymore I sold it.  I was very surprised how much I missed having a sidecar after it was gone., which was totally unexpected as my only motivation for buying it was for my wife's enjoyment. 

I knew that one day I would have another rig.  They are just great fun.  Nothing like it.  One day when advanced age makes 2 wheels dicey I will happily transition to 100% sidecar. I love my Ural.  A great bike.

[azccj]

20 years ago I bought a HD sidecar rig so that my wife who was in a wheelchair could have a chance to ride with me again.  When she weakened to the point where riding in the hack wasn't an option anymore I sold it.  I was very surprised how much I missed having a sidecar after it was gone., which was totally unexpected as my only motivation for buying it was for my wife's enjoyment. 

I knew that one day I would have another rig.  They are just great fun.  Nothing like it.  One day when advanced age makes 2 wheels dicey I will happily transition to 100% sidecar. I love my Ural.  A great bike.

Back in 2005 I bought a new Ural Patrol. I think back then they were about $10,500 so not to bad for a 2 wheel drive side car rig. Two things that I remember about it. First and very surprisingly, it had the nicest green paint job of any bike I've ever owned. The paint was as smooth as glass without a single panel having any orange peel. Can't say the same about any BMW I've ever owned. Second thing about the Ural was the amount of maintenance/repairs it needed. For every hour I spent riding it, I needed to work on it for an hour, and I'm not exaggerating. After about 2 years I sold it after riding it for 6,000 miles.

It was a interesting bike to own and got plenty of looks when I was out riding it, but I don't think I would own another one, especially not for what they are asking for a new one now, $20,000+.